Home battery tester: measures voltage or current?

J

Jon D

I am in the UK. I have a battery tester from years ago which is still
available. It may also be sold in the US.

http://www.avenuesupplies.co.uk/getimage.php?id=98&type=1&format=2

My multimeter shows that this battery tester puts a load of 500 mA on
the 1.5v battery under test.

I have alkaline, NiCad, and NiMH batteries. I have AA and AAA.

(1) Almost all gets a steady reading of 'GOOD' in green.
(2) No battery goes to 'REPLACE RECHARGE' in red.
(3) One battery starts in GREEN, then slides into RED over 10 seconds.

Is this tester measuring:
(a) the general "health" of the battery
(b) the battery's current state of charge?

Presumably (a) could be done crudely by displaying current and (b) by
displaying voltage? Is this correct?
 
R

Rod Speed

Jon D said:
I am in the UK. I have a battery tester from years ago
which is still available. It may also be sold in the US.

Wont load here.
http://www.avenuesupplies.co.uk/index.php?id=602&pid=98&sid=1
does tho.
My multimeter shows that this battery tester puts
a load of 500 mA on the 1.5v battery under test.
I have alkaline, NiCad, and NiMH batteries. I have AA and AAA.
(1) Almost all gets a steady reading of 'GOOD' in green.
(2) No battery goes to 'REPLACE RECHARGE' in red.

Not ever, even when flat ?
(3) One battery starts in GREEN, then slides into RED over 10 seconds.

What happens to the voltage of that battery when it does that ?
Is this tester measuring:
(a) the general "health" of the battery

Not even possible with the NiCad and NiMH batterys with something that cheap.
(b) the battery's current state of charge?

Not feasible to work that out with alkaline, NiCad and NiMH batterys.
Presumably (a) could be done crudely by displaying
current and (b) by displaying voltage? Is this correct?

Nope, its actually displaying the voltage under load.
 
K

kony

I am in the UK. I have a battery tester from years ago which is still
available. It may also be sold in the US.

http://www.avenuesupplies.co.uk/getimage.php?id=98&type=1&format=2

My multimeter shows that this battery tester puts a load of 500 mA on
the 1.5v battery under test.

I have alkaline, NiCad, and NiMH batteries. I have AA and AAA.

(1) Almost all gets a steady reading of 'GOOD' in green.
(2) No battery goes to 'REPLACE RECHARGE' in red.
(3) One battery starts in GREEN, then slides into RED over 10 seconds.

Is this tester measuring:
(a) the general "health" of the battery
(b) the battery's current state of charge?

Presumably (a) could be done crudely by displaying current and (b) by
displaying voltage? Is this correct?

Yes/no/maybe, you'd have to determine your thresholds for
the particular cell technology and size per any rate and
charge state, and health is a bad term to use at all.

It will be measuring the voltage even if indirectly but the
load is too high, many cells have an internal impedance that
will drop the voltage rapidly when trying to deliver 500mA,
particularly alkalines far moreso than NiCad or better
quality NiMH.

"Health" is not a very applicable term to a battery if only
checking the voltage, rather whether it's discharged past
the threshold or not. You might hook up a voltmeter in
parallel with the tester to see at what threshold the lights
turn from green to red.

Perhaps I should now ask, what is your goal, exactly?
Analyze this tester? Understand batteries? Test what
batteries you have and be done already?

Different battery chemistries can have different voltage
curves during discharge. Unless your tester was expressly
designed to test NiCad or NiMH, odds are it was mean for
alkaline and older battery technologies which tend to drop
further in voltage more rapidly, a steeper voltage:discharge
curve.
 
R

Roy L. Fuchs

Wont load here.
http://www.avenuesupplies.co.uk/index.php?id=602&pid=98&sid=1
does tho.




Not ever, even when flat ?

They place a fixed load, and test for voltage. The problem is that
with the batteries the world has been using, the charge/discharge
curve is a long straight line right up until it avalanches with a
pretty quick slew to near zero volts.
I'll bet that repeat tests will have the cycle occur more quickly
each time. That battery is likely near discharge.
What happens to the voltage of that battery when it does that ?

The meter is reading the voltage through a fixed load, so I'd say
it's the voltage that is dropping. When removed from the load,
certain batteries "bounce back" a bit. This is only by voltage, and
it will again fall under loaded tests, eventually yielding no further
rebounds of significance.
Not even possible with the NiCad and NiMH batterys with something that cheap.

To be certain.
Not feasible to work that out with alkaline, NiCad and NiMH batterys.

Loaded testing has always puzzled me with batteries, as they are
limited fill storage devices. Upon a loaded test, I find myself
wanting to "top off" the battery again. Also, as you stated,
performing such tests doesn't really reveal charge level.
At the rates modern batteries are slow charged, the best solution to
one's unknown battery condition is to "top 'em off". In other words,
put them back in the charger and let its built in detection routine
decide the battery's fill level. Those "watchdog" chips are pretty
cool stuff.
Nope, its actually displaying the voltage under load.
Yep.

For charge rate, and or fill level, one would have to know the
physical characteristics of the battery under test.

It's fully charged internal resistance, and it's internal resistance
right at the discharge avalanche point, and its very nearly fully
discharged internal resistance. With this knowledge, one can test a
battery while it is being charged at a known fixed current limited
rate. It can be determined by knowing the at rest fully charged cell
voltage, and comparing it to the voltage required to get the battery
to take charge at any given point during a charge cycle (not including
fully charged of course).

With these chargers being current limited, what takes place is that
the voltage is just above that required to pump electrons into the
battery. Any more and the charge rate current would be exceeded.

So, a dead battery impresses a very small voltage, or emf when near
dead. Hook up a smart charger, and it will raise its voltage until it
just starts to pump current into the battery, it will bring it up to
the current limit rate and slowly raise the voltage as the battery
charges up keeping said current rate steady as she goes. At some
point near the end of the charge cycle the chip is programmed to
provide, the voltage of the battery will no longer continue to rise
and the current will begin to fall off. The chip will sense this and
change the charge indicator to green and discontinue charging
operations. Usually, in chargers, there is a chip for each battery.
I have even seen batteries themselves with them built in. Particularly
when there is an array, or true "battery" of cells arranged, and
designers want to insure that all cells get charged evenly and fully.
Memory effect got shot in da head.
 
C

Christian McArdle

(b) the battery's current state of charge?
Not feasible to work that out with alkaline, NiCad and NiMH batterys.

It would be fine for alkalines, as the terminal voltage under load does drop
almost proportionally with charge state. NiCd and NiMH are another story.

Christian.
 
R

Roy L. Fuchs

It would be fine for alkalines, as the terminal voltage under load does drop
almost proportionally with charge state. NiCd and NiMH are another story.

Christian.
Actually, Alkalines are pretty flat for a looong time during their
discharge...
 
C

Christian McArdle

Actually, Alkalines are pretty flat for a looong time during their
discharge...

Er. No. They go pretty steadily from their nominal voltage down to 0.8V,
when they are considered depleted. The voltages are even less under any sort
of heavy load. NiMH and NiCd are almost entirely flat until just before
depletion. Alkalines do have a flatter section in the middle of the graph,
but it really isn't very flat at all and measuring voltage under a small
load is a reliable method of determining remaining capacity.

There are some time<>voltage graphs for alkaline here:

http://data.energizer.com/PDFs/E91.pdf

And for NiMH here:

http://data.energizer.com/PDFs/nh15-2200.pdf

They clearly show that NiMH are essentially flat after a brief initial
period with a much more pronounced knee at depletion. This is particularly
the case if you take into account the Alkaline graph going down from 1.5V to
0.8V, whilst the NiMH graph goes from 1.4V to 0.9V. The graph even goes
vertical at about 1.1V.

Christian.
 
R

Rod Speed

They place a fixed load, and test for voltage.

What I said below.
The problem is that with the batteries the world has been using,
the charge/discharge curve is a long straight line right up until it
avalanches with a pretty quick slew to near zero volts.

Its nothing like near zero, and that is why I asked
if it never shows red even when the battery is flat.
I'll bet that repeat tests will have the cycle occur more
quickly each time. That battery is likely near discharge.

Which is why I asked if the others ever show red.
The meter is reading the voltage through a fixed load, so
I'd say it's the voltage that is dropping. When removed
from the load, certain batteries "bounce back" a bit. This
is only by voltage, and it will again fall under loaded tests,
eventually yielding no further rebounds of significance.

Yes, but its rather surprising that only one battery ever does that.
To be certain.
Loaded testing has always puzzled me with batteries,

It shouldnt. Its pretty pointless just measuring
the unloaded voltage with many battery types.
as they are limited fill storage devices. Upon a loaded
test, I find myself wanting to "top off" the battery again.

You dont normally leave it on the tester for long.
Also, as you stated, performing such tests doesn't really reveal
charge level. At the rates modern batteries are slow charged,
the best solution to one's unknown battery condition is to "top
'em off". In other words, put them back in the charger and let
its built in detection routine decide the battery's fill level.
Those "watchdog" chips are pretty cool stuff.

Sure, but that 'tester' is clearly a very crude approach to battery testing.
For charge rate, and or fill level, one would have to know
the physical characteristics of the battery under test.
It's fully charged internal resistance, and it's internal resistance
right at the discharge avalanche point, and its very nearly fully
discharged internal resistance. With this knowledge, one can test a
battery while it is being charged at a known fixed current limited
rate. It can be determined by knowing the at rest fully charged cell
voltage, and comparing it to the voltage required to get the battery
to take charge at any given point during a charge cycle (not including
fully charged of course).

Not feasible with a simple cheap tester like that one tho.
With these chargers being current limited, what takes place is that
the voltage is just above that required to pump electrons into the
battery. Any more and the charge rate current would be exceeded.
So, a dead battery impresses a very small voltage, or emf when near
dead. Hook up a smart charger, and it will raise its voltage until it
just starts to pump current into the battery, it will bring it up to
the current limit rate and slowly raise the voltage as the battery
charges up keeping said current rate steady as she goes. At some
point near the end of the charge cycle the chip is programmed to
provide, the voltage of the battery will no longer continue to rise
and the current will begin to fall off. The chip will sense this and
change the charge indicator to green and discontinue charging
operations. Usually, in chargers, there is a chip for each battery.
I have even seen batteries themselves with them built in. Particularly
when there is an array, or true "battery" of cells arranged, and
designers want to insure that all cells get charged evenly and fully.
Memory effect got shot in da head.

Sure, but thats an entirely separate matter
to what that cheap battery tester can do.
 
R

Rod Speed

It would be fine for alkalines, as the terminal voltage
under load does drop almost proportionally with
charge state. NiCd and NiMH are another story.

I meant its not feasible if you cant tell the tester what type of battery it is.
 
R

Roy L. Fuchs

It shouldnt. Its pretty pointless just measuring
the unloaded voltage with many battery types.

The activity doesn't puzzle me, the logic does.

Even a loaded test doesn't tell one a battery is full. It can only
tell one something if one witnesses the battery in its death throws.

So to me, it is pointless at any point during a battery's life as
the thing is LIMITED, why take more away from a fixed amount?

A simple voltage test, and knowledge of the battery tells a lot. If
it is a 1.2 or a 1.5 volt battery, and you are reading that or even a
bit more, you know the dang thing is charged.

I have seen NiCads in particular discharge with an incremental drop
in voltage through the cycle. I can tell when it is charged too. I
was using an HP lab supply with a 4.5 digit meter on it and very
precise constant current or constant voltage modes.

Really all one needs is a good meter and a lab supply. Read the
battery voltage. Set the supply to just over that, say a half a tenth
of a volt to start. Set the current limit on the supply to the battery
maker's spec. Place the battery on the supply, and read voltage with
the handheld, reading current on the supply meter. If the power
supply is set to the battery spec charged voltage, and there is no
current flow, it is charged. Turn up the voltage to see the current
rise up to the limit point, and read the supply voltage. It should
not be much more than the correctly charged battery voltage is.

Remove battery from charger, and let it sit for a few minutes to let
its internal thermals re-homogenize. Read battery voltage with meter.
Make a report that has each battery's serial number and fully charged
and settled battery voltage (we should really be saying "cell" Replace
the word "battery" with "cell" throughout this post). Do that with
all of your CELLS. Any time you want to know a CELL'S condition, read
its voltage, and refer to the chart. The closer it is to that value,
the closer to fully charged it is. The increment is very small.

One could also find out the rate the battery is, and discharge what
would be half that, and take readings on each battery, and log the
value. Then one could extrapolate charge level from voltage reading
fairly well. They avalanche late in their duty cycle, but the line
from the beginning to the avalanche point is a smooth, slow, small
decline over a couple tenths of a volt. Meter needs to read
hundredths at least.
 
R

Rod Speed

The activity doesn't puzzle me, the logic does.

The logic is fine. Its essentially allowing for the internal resistance.
Even a loaded test doesn't tell one a battery is full.

Yes, but it can certainly tell you when the internal resistance is high.
It can only tell one something if one
witnesses the battery in its death throws.

Nope, it also tells you when the internal resistance is high.
So to me, it is pointless at any point during a battery's life as
the thing is LIMITED, why take more away from a fixed amount?

Basically you are taking bugger all of that fixed amount for the test.
A simple voltage test, and knowledge of the battery tells a lot.

Doesnt tell you anything about the internal resistance.
If it is a 1.2 or a 1.5 volt battery, and you are reading that
or even a bit more, you know the dang thing is charged.

Yes, but there is more involved than just charged/not fully charged.
I have seen NiCads in particular discharge with an incremental
drop in voltage through the cycle. I can tell when it is charged
too. I was using an HP lab supply with a 4.5 digit meter on it
and very precise constant current or constant voltage modes.

And that cheap tester is nothing like that.
Really all one needs is a good meter and a lab supply.

That costs a tad more than that tester does.
Read the battery voltage. Set the supply to just over that, say
a half a tenth of a volt to start. Set the current limit on the supply
to the battery maker's spec. Place the battery on the supply, and
read voltage with the handheld, reading current on the supply meter.
If the power supply is set to the battery spec charged voltage, and
there is no current flow, it is charged. Turn up the voltage to see
the current rise up to the limit point, and read the supply voltage. It
should not be much more than the correctly charged battery voltage is.
Remove battery from charger, and let it sit for a few minutes to let
its internal thermals re-homogenize. Read battery voltage with meter.
Make a report that has each battery's serial number and fully charged
and settled battery voltage (we should really be saying "cell" Replace
the word "battery" with "cell" throughout this post). Do that with
all of your CELLS. Any time you want to know a CELL'S condition,
read its voltage, and refer to the chart. The closer it is to that value,
the closer to fully charged it is. The increment is very small.

That costs a tad more than that tester does.
One could also find out the rate the battery is, and discharge what
would be half that, and take readings on each battery, and log the
value. Then one could extrapolate charge level from voltage reading
fairly well. They avalanche late in their duty cycle, but the line
from the beginning to the avalanche point is a smooth, slow, small
decline over a couple tenths of a volt. Meter needs to read
hundredths at least.

That costs a tad more than that tester does.
 
H

HankG

Please excuse the intrusion, but I need to interject a related question.

Recently purchased a new radio scanner which uses AA batteries. Currently,
I'm using the last of my 'Renewal' alkaline rechargeables. I was under the
impression AA, AAA, C, and D are all 1.5 volts (when new), but only differ
in the amount of availabe milliampere-hours. I just measured a freshly
recharged set (4) of the AA's and infact they measure 6.02 volts on my DVM.

Since I will have to replace my alkalines eventually, I started checking the
various rechargeable systems available. In my search, I noted that AA NiMH
cells were labeled as 1.2 volts and had varied milliamp-hour ratings. As my
scanner reports low-battery condition (based on voltage), I want to maximize
my listening time between charges.

Are there any AA rechargeables that are rated at 1.5 volts?

HankG
 
C

Christian McArdle

Are there any AA rechargeables that are rated at 1.5 volts?

No. It is down to cell chemistry and the nominal cell voltage is a slave to
this.

However, do not fear, almost anything that runs well on 1.5V alkalines will
run fine on 1.2V rechargeables. This is because anything using alkalines
will already have to deal with the actual voltage of the alkalines, which
goes down well below 1.0V before expiry of the battery. As a NiMH battery
will maintain 1.2V to the bitter end, the equipment should handle this. If
it can't, then it can't use alkalines, either!

However, any voltage based battery capacity monitoring will fail. Just
ignore the battery life indicator.

Christian.
 
G

Guy King

The message <[email protected]>
from "HankG said:
Are there any AA rechargeables that are rated at 1.5 volts?

No. Though it doesn't generally matter 'cos the on-load voltage of a
1.2V NiMH is generally higher than the on-load voltage of a 1.5V primary
cell.
 

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