Help with unstable system K8N Neo4 Plat /X2 4400

[Don Burnette]

Hey gang,
I am pulling my hair out on this one. I have built several systems over the
years, but this one, continues to be unstable, and I am running out of
things to try. This has been going on now, for about 6 months.

System Specs:

MSI K8N Neo4 Plat socket 939
Athlon X2 4400+
Thermalrite XP-90 HS
2 ea 250 gb WD Sata hard drives ( non-raid )
Saphire Radeon X850XT PCIe 256mb video card
Creative X-FI Extreme Music soundcard
2gb Corsair XMS LL ddr ram ( 2 x 1gb )
Antec Neo HE 550w power supply
Windows XP Pro SP2 with all udpates, also have the AMD X2 processor update,
and Microsoft dual core update.

I do not have a heat problem. Processor idles around 32c, under load ,
around 36-38c. All fans are running properly.
I have all the latest driver updates for my soundcard and videocard. I just
recently added the X-Fi soundcard, however, system has been unstable since I
built it in early Feb. I had an Audigy 2 ZS before that.
I first installed the mb drivers, with the Nvidia IDE SW driver, then,
removed them, and reinstalled, without the Nvidia IDE SW driver.
I have tested the ram, with Memtest 86, with no errors. The ram is running,
in dual channel.
I recently, added, the Neo HE 550 w power supply, as my previous power
supply, was only 20 pin, and the HE 550 , is 24 - thinking that might be the
issue, however it was not.
I am running the memory timings, on " auto". I am not overclocking the
system yet, wanted to get it stable first.
I updated the motherboard bios to 1.C, no change.

What happens is, usually when reading email with Outlook, perusing
newsgroups with Outlook Express, or browsing the internet with Firefox, my
system just " locks up". Occasionally, I will get a bluescreen, about a "
machine check error exception ", but usually, it just freezes with no blue
screen, and no error messages in event viewer. I have to power off the
system, by holding in the power button for 5 seconds to force it to shut
down. I then restart it, and it runs fine, until it locks up again. It is
getting to where, this is happening, at least once a day.

I have thought about blowing out this installation of Windows XP Pro, and
formatting and doing another clean install ( I did a clean install when I
built this system). But, I really don't think it is a software issue, I
think it is somehow a hardware issue, due to the machine check error blue
screen I occasionally get, but I do not know what else to try. I am also,
about to the point, of considering a different motherboard. I had good
success with the K8N Neo2 Plat, Nforce3, never had a problem, but this
sytem, is giving me a lot of grief.

My windows installation is very clean, I run AVG Antivirus, Spwareblaster,
Ad Aware, and Spybot on a regular basis.

I hope I have included all the relevant details. If any of you more
experienced folks have any ideas or suggestions, I would certainly
appreciate it!!

Thanks in advance,

 

[General Schvantzkoph]

Hey gang,
I am pulling my hair out on this one. I have built several systems over the
years, but this one, continues to be unstable, and I am running out of
things to try. This has been going on now, for about 6 months.

System Specs:

MSI K8N Neo4 Plat socket 939
Athlon X2 4400+
Thermalrite XP-90 HS
2 ea 250 gb WD Sata hard drives ( non-raid )
Saphire Radeon X850XT PCIe 256mb video card
Creative X-FI Extreme Music soundcard
2gb Corsair XMS LL ddr ram ( 2 x 1gb )
Antec Neo HE 550w power supply
Windows XP Pro SP2 with all udpates, also have the AMD X2 processor update,
and Microsoft dual core update.

I do not have a heat problem. Processor idles around 32c, under load ,
around 36-38c. All fans are running properly.
I have all the latest driver updates for my soundcard and videocard. I just
recently added the X-Fi soundcard, however, system has been unstable since I
built it in early Feb. I had an Audigy 2 ZS before that.
I first installed the mb drivers, with the Nvidia IDE SW driver, then,
removed them, and reinstalled, without the Nvidia IDE SW driver.
I have tested the ram, with Memtest 86, with no errors. The ram is running,
in dual channel.
I recently, added, the Neo HE 550 w power supply, as my previous power
supply, was only 20 pin, and the HE 550 , is 24 - thinking that might be the
issue, however it was not.
I am running the memory timings, on " auto". I am not overclocking the
system yet, wanted to get it stable first.
I updated the motherboard bios to 1.C, no change.

What happens is, usually when reading email with Outlook, perusing
newsgroups with Outlook Express, or browsing the internet with Firefox, my
system just " locks up". Occasionally, I will get a bluescreen, about a "
machine check error exception ", but usually, it just freezes with no blue
screen, and no error messages in event viewer. I have to power off the
system, by holding in the power button for 5 seconds to force it to shut
down. I then restart it, and it runs fine, until it locks up again. It is
getting to where, this is happening, at least once a day.

I have thought about blowing out this installation of Windows XP Pro, and
formatting and doing another clean install ( I did a clean install when I
built this system). But, I really don't think it is a software issue, I
think it is somehow a hardware issue, due to the machine check error blue
screen I occasionally get, but I do not know what else to try. I am also,
about to the point, of considering a different motherboard. I had good
success with the K8N Neo2 Plat, Nforce3, never had a problem, but this
sytem, is giving me a lot of grief.

My windows installation is very clean, I run AVG Antivirus, Spwareblaster,
Ad Aware, and Spybot on a regular basis.

I hope I have included all the relevant details. If any of you more
experienced folks have any ideas or suggestions, I would certainly
appreciate it!!

Thanks in advance,

I have the same motherboard and processor and it's completely stable, it's
not a problem with the motherboard design. Even though it passed Memtest86
it's still possible that you have memory problems. I had some memory
problems with my system, the OS would lose the occasional interrupt when
the memory clock was set to 200MHz (I have 4G in my box) but Memtest86
would pass. I swapped out a couple of the DIMMs for better DIMMs and that
fixed the problem. The box has been running 24/7 for over a year with a
200MHz memory clock. BTW there was nothing wrong with the old DIMMs, I
have them in another system paired with some single sided DIMMs and they
are working fine. The memory bus on the A64 is speced to run at 166MHz
when you have two pairs of double sided DIMMs, however if you use better
DIMMs you can get it to run at 200MHz with two double sided DIMMs.

The first thing that I would try is to lower the clock rate on the RAM. If
they are running at 200MHz then drop it to 166MHz. If that works then you
can try raising the voltage on the RAMs a little bit (the BIOS on the Neo4
tells you what is safe and what isn't). You could also try swapping out
the DIMMs for another pair.

The other thing that I would do is to check the BIOS rev and upgrade
it if it's really out of date. I upgraded the BIOS on my Neo4, there
seemed to be some real improvements such as hardware memory hole remapping
which wasn't there in the original BIOS, the power management also seems
to work better.

 

[Gerard Bok]

I am pulling my hair out on this one. I have built several systems over the
years, but this one, continues to be unstable, and I am running out of
things to try.

I do not have a heat problem.
What happens is, usually when reading email with Outlook, perusing
newsgroups with Outlook Express, or browsing the internet with Firefox, my
system just " locks up".
I have thought about blowing out this installation of Windows XP Pro
My windows installation is very clean, I run AVG Antivirus, Spwareblaster,
Ad Aware, and Spybot on a regular basis.

My suggestion would be: run either Bart PE (Windows) or Knoppix
from a CD for a while.
If your problems persist, you are looking at a hardware issue.

Otherwise, it would be time to reinstall Windows

 

[Rod Speed]

That sort of thing is normally a memory problem, since you
have already eliminated the power supply and a flakey power
supply wouldnt normally produce those specific symptoms.

Run memtest86+ for multiple complete runs
and you will likely see it report problems.

If it doesnt, its still likely that the motherboard doesnt
like that memory much, try different memory.

 

[Don Burnette]

I have the same motherboard and processor and it's completely stable, it's
not a problem with the motherboard design. Even though it passed Memtest86
it's still possible that you have memory problems. I had some memory
problems with my system, the OS would lose the occasional interrupt when
the memory clock was set to 200MHz (I have 4G in my box) but Memtest86
would pass. I swapped out a couple of the DIMMs for better DIMMs and that
fixed the problem. The box has been running 24/7 for over a year with a
200MHz memory clock. BTW there was nothing wrong with the old DIMMs, I
have them in another system paired with some single sided DIMMs and they
are working fine. The memory bus on the A64 is speced to run at 166MHz
when you have two pairs of double sided DIMMs, however if you use better
DIMMs you can get it to run at 200MHz with two double sided DIMMs.

The first thing that I would try is to lower the clock rate on the RAM. If
they are running at 200MHz then drop it to 166MHz. If that works then you
can try raising the voltage on the RAMs a little bit (the BIOS on the Neo4
tells you what is safe and what isn't). You could also try swapping out
the DIMMs for another pair.

The other thing that I would do is to check the BIOS rev and upgrade
it if it's really out of date. I upgraded the BIOS on my Neo4, there
seemed to be some real improvements such as hardware memory hole remapping
which wasn't there in the original BIOS, the power management also seems
to work better.

Thanks for the tips. I think first, I will let memtest86 run overnight, and
see if it then gives me any
errors. I will probably then, try lowering the clock rate on my ram.

If I lower my clock rate on the ram, to 166, is it then in effect,
underclocking the system?

Don

 

[General Schvantzkoph]

Thanks for the tips. I think first, I will let memtest86 run overnight, and
see if it then gives me any
errors. I will probably then, try lowering the clock rate on my ram.

If I lower my clock rate on the ram, to 166, is it then in effect,
underclocking the system?

Don

It's underclocking the RAM not the CPU. On the A64 the RAM clock and the
CPU clock are independent.

 

[tdprado]

I have the same motherboard using Bios 1C and had similar problems at one
stage. I was using 2 x256Mb sticks of Corsair LL memory in dual channel.

It would run memtest overnight without failure and then lockup the next day
as soon as I started doing general work.

Set the memory voltage to 2.8V and see how that goes. It fixed my setup.

 

[paulmd]

Hey gang,
I am pulling my hair out on this one. I have built several systems over the
years, but this one, continues to be unstable, and I am running out of
things to try. This has been going on now, for about 6 months.

I hope I have included all the relevant details. If any of you more
experienced folks have any ideas or suggestions, I would certainly
appreciate it!!

Thanks in advance,

Are any capacitors bulging or leaking? That can cause the freezing and
nastiness you are expierincring.

 

[VanShania]

Update your bios, install your raid drivers even if your not running raid,
and make sure you have the latest drivers for that board.

--
Sapphire X1600 Pro 512mb AGP
MSI Theater 550Pro TV Tuner
Thermaltake LanFire Midtower(4X80mm fans),Antec 550 Watt PSU
Gigabyte GA-K8NSC-939 nForce3, A64 3500+, Stock Cooler IdleTemp 28 C
2 Gb Dual Channel PC3200 OCZ Platinum 2-3-2-5 CL2.5
Viewsonic A91f 19in Moniter
2XSATA WD 320gb Raid Edition, PATA WD 120Gb HD
Pioneer 110D Dual Layer burner
Logitech MX 310 Optical Mouse
Microsoft Sidewinder Precision 2 Joystick
Microsoft ergonomic keyboard
Cheap computer speakers with Sennheiser HD 477 Headphones

3DMark05Free-Overall-3134 1024X768, 4XAA/8XAF 6.4Drivers
Cpu - 4405
3Dmark2001 - 8702 4XAA/8XAF 1280X1024

Games I'm Playing- IL-2 Sturmovick Series
Empire Earth 2, Need For Speed: Underground 2,
Civ IV, Warhammer 40,000 Gold

 

[VanShania]

And make sure you install your IDE drivers this time when using the raid
drivers. This should fix stability.

--
Sapphire X1600 Pro 512mb AGP
MSI Theater 550Pro TV Tuner
Thermaltake LanFire Midtower(4X80mm fans),Antec 550 Watt PSU
Gigabyte GA-K8NSC-939 nForce3, A64 3500+, Stock Cooler IdleTemp 28 C
2 Gb Dual Channel PC3200 OCZ Platinum 2-3-2-5 CL2.5
Viewsonic A91f 19in Moniter
2XSATA WD 320gb Raid Edition, PATA WD 120Gb HD
Pioneer 110D Dual Layer burner
Logitech MX 310 Optical Mouse
Microsoft Sidewinder Precision 2 Joystick
Microsoft ergonomic keyboard
Cheap computer speakers with Sennheiser HD 477 Headphones

3DMark05Free-Overall-3134 1024X768, 4XAA/8XAF 6.4Drivers
Cpu - 4405
3Dmark2001 - 8702 4XAA/8XAF 1280X1024

Games I'm Playing- IL-2 Sturmovick Series
Empire Earth 2, Need For Speed: Underground 2,
Civ IV, Warhammer 40,000 Gold

Update your bios, install your raid drivers even if your not running raid,
and make sure you have the latest drivers for that board.

--
Sapphire X1600 Pro 512mb AGP
MSI Theater 550Pro TV Tuner
Thermaltake LanFire Midtower(4X80mm fans),Antec 550 Watt PSU
Gigabyte GA-K8NSC-939 nForce3, A64 3500+, Stock Cooler IdleTemp 28 C
2 Gb Dual Channel PC3200 OCZ Platinum 2-3-2-5 CL2.5
Viewsonic A91f 19in Moniter
2XSATA WD 320gb Raid Edition, PATA WD 120Gb HD
Pioneer 110D Dual Layer burner
Logitech MX 310 Optical Mouse
Microsoft Sidewinder Precision 2 Joystick
Microsoft ergonomic keyboard
Cheap computer speakers with Sennheiser HD 477 Headphones

3DMark05Free-Overall-3134 1024X768, 4XAA/8XAF 6.4Drivers
Cpu - 4405
3Dmark2001 - 8702 4XAA/8XAF 1280X1024

Games I'm Playing- IL-2 Sturmovick Series
Empire Earth 2, Need For Speed: Underground 2,
Civ IV, Warhammer 40,000 Gold

 

[VanShania]

You also may want to pull your X-Fi until your windows/motherboard drivers
are installed. Gigabyte informed me that having cards in the pci slots can
cause problems during install.

--
Sapphire X1600 Pro 512mb AGP
MSI Theater 550Pro TV Tuner
Thermaltake LanFire Midtower(4X80mm fans),Antec 550 Watt PSU
Gigabyte GA-K8NSC-939 nForce3, A64 3500+, Stock Cooler IdleTemp 28 C
2 Gb Dual Channel PC3200 OCZ Platinum 2-3-2-5 CL2.5
Viewsonic A91f 19in Moniter
2XSATA WD 320gb Raid Edition, PATA WD 120Gb HD
Pioneer 110D Dual Layer burner
Logitech MX 310 Optical Mouse
Microsoft Sidewinder Precision 2 Joystick
Microsoft ergonomic keyboard
Cheap computer speakers with Sennheiser HD 477 Headphones

3DMark05Free-Overall-3134 1024X768, 4XAA/8XAF 6.4Drivers
Cpu - 4405
3Dmark2001 - 8702 4XAA/8XAF 1280X1024

Games I'm Playing- IL-2 Sturmovick Series
Empire Earth 2, Need For Speed: Underground 2,
Civ IV, Warhammer 40,000 Gold

Update your bios, install your raid drivers even if your not running raid,
and make sure you have the latest drivers for that board.

--
Sapphire X1600 Pro 512mb AGP
MSI Theater 550Pro TV Tuner
Thermaltake LanFire Midtower(4X80mm fans),Antec 550 Watt PSU
Gigabyte GA-K8NSC-939 nForce3, A64 3500+, Stock Cooler IdleTemp 28 C
2 Gb Dual Channel PC3200 OCZ Platinum 2-3-2-5 CL2.5
Viewsonic A91f 19in Moniter
2XSATA WD 320gb Raid Edition, PATA WD 120Gb HD
Pioneer 110D Dual Layer burner
Logitech MX 310 Optical Mouse
Microsoft Sidewinder Precision 2 Joystick
Microsoft ergonomic keyboard
Cheap computer speakers with Sennheiser HD 477 Headphones

3DMark05Free-Overall-3134 1024X768, 4XAA/8XAF 6.4Drivers
Cpu - 4405
3Dmark2001 - 8702 4XAA/8XAF 1280X1024

Games I'm Playing- IL-2 Sturmovick Series
Empire Earth 2, Need For Speed: Underground 2,
Civ IV, Warhammer 40,000 Gold

 

[Don Burnette]

That certainly would be an easy thing to try.

I noticed, anything at 2.75 and above shows in red as " not recommended ",
is setting it to
2.8 fairly safe?



--
Don

I have the same motherboard using Bios 1C and had similar problems at one
stage. I was using 2 x256Mb sticks of Corsair LL memory in dual channel.

It would run memtest overnight without failure and then lockup the next
day as soon as I started doing general work.

Set the memory voltage to 2.8V and see how that goes. It fixed my setup.

 

[Don Burnette]

Hmm, now that is interesting, the raid drivers came on a floppy right?

I never installed those, as I don't have a working floppy in the system
right now.



--
Don

Update your bios, install your raid drivers even if your not running raid,
and make sure you have the latest drivers for that board.

--
Sapphire X1600 Pro 512mb AGP
MSI Theater 550Pro TV Tuner
Thermaltake LanFire Midtower(4X80mm fans),Antec 550 Watt PSU
Gigabyte GA-K8NSC-939 nForce3, A64 3500+, Stock Cooler IdleTemp 28 C
2 Gb Dual Channel PC3200 OCZ Platinum 2-3-2-5 CL2.5
Viewsonic A91f 19in Moniter
2XSATA WD 320gb Raid Edition, PATA WD 120Gb HD
Pioneer 110D Dual Layer burner
Logitech MX 310 Optical Mouse
Microsoft Sidewinder Precision 2 Joystick
Microsoft ergonomic keyboard
Cheap computer speakers with Sennheiser HD 477 Headphones

3DMark05Free-Overall-3134 1024X768, 4XAA/8XAF 6.4Drivers
Cpu - 4405
3Dmark2001 - 8702 4XAA/8XAF 1280X1024

Games I'm Playing- IL-2 Sturmovick Series
Empire Earth 2, Need For Speed: Underground 2,
Civ IV, Warhammer 40,000 Gold

 

[General Schvantzkoph]

That certainly would be an easy thing to try.

I noticed, anything at 2.75 and above shows in red as " not recommended ",
is setting it to
2.8 fairly safe?

I'd keep it in the safe region, if the limit is 2.75 then keep it under
2.75. Try reducing the RAM clock speed first, that's absolutely harmless
and it has a much greater effect then raising the voltage. Once you've
determined that it's a RAM problem you can concentrate on fixing it. To
fix a RAM problem your options are,

1) Increasing the CAS latency
2) Raising voltage (keep it in the safe region)
3) Decreasing the clock speed
4) Replacing the DIMMs

BTW for Windows drivers, I thought that doing a Windows Update will get
you the drivers for all of your devices. If that doesn't do it you should
be able to download them from the motherboard or device manufacturers
site. The ones that came in the box are probably obsolete, the ones on the
manufacturers site will be the most recent.

 

[Don Burnette]

I'd keep it in the safe region, if the limit is 2.75 then keep it under
2.75. Try reducing the RAM clock speed first, that's absolutely harmless
and it has a much greater effect then raising the voltage. Once you've
determined that it's a RAM problem you can concentrate on fixing it. To
fix a RAM problem your options are,

1) Increasing the CAS latency
2) Raising voltage (keep it in the safe region)
3) Decreasing the clock speed
4) Replacing the DIMMs

BTW for Windows drivers, I thought that doing a Windows Update will get
you the drivers for all of your devices. If that doesn't do it you should
be able to download them from the motherboard or device manufacturers
site. The ones that came in the box are probably obsolete, the ones on the
manufacturers site will be the most recent.

Thanks General. I have increased the memory voltage to it's highest " safe"
setting of
2.7 - I will go ahead and lower the ram clock speed and see how that goes,
that certainly makes
sense.

Don

 

[kony]

That certainly would be an easy thing to try.

I noticed, anything at 2.75 and above shows in red as " not recommended ",
is setting it to
2.8 fairly safe?

Which Corsair XMS do you have exactly? Does it have the
heat spreaders (probably?) or bare chips so you can see the
chips?

Some XMS, like a few in the following link, are spec'd for
2.75V already. Certainly with that or other memory
similarly spec'd for 2.7V or more you should consider trying
2.8V.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.asp?Submit=ENE&N=50001666+1052308477+1052107965

 

[Don Burnette]

Which Corsair XMS do you have exactly? Does it have the
heat spreaders (probably?) or bare chips so you can see the
chips?

Some XMS, like a few in the following link, are spec'd for
2.75V already. Certainly with that or other memory
similarly spec'd for 2.7V or more you should consider trying
2.8V.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.asp?Submit=ENE&N=50001666+1052308477+1052107965

Hi Kony,
Yes, I belive it has the heat spreaders, also has lights that flicker on top
of the sticks.

I just looked up my NewEgg invoice, and below is the memory I have:

Corsair XMS 2gb ( 2 x 1gb) 184 pin unbuffered ddr433 ( pc3500) dual channel
kit system memory
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16820145594

Hmm, I notice on the tech spec, it lists it as 2.75V.
Perhaps that has been my problem, running it under voltage?


Don

 

[Don Burnette]

What clock speed are you running at?

For the ram? I have it still set at 200. I have upped the voltage to 2.75v,
it was
previously set, at 2.6 or 2.65 I believe.

Don

 

[General Schvantzkoph]

Hi Kony,
Yes, I belive it has the heat spreaders, also has lights that flicker on top
of the sticks.

I just looked up my NewEgg invoice, and below is the memory I have:

Corsair XMS 2gb ( 2 x 1gb) 184 pin unbuffered ddr433 ( pc3500) dual channel
kit system memory
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16820145594

Hmm, I notice on the tech spec, it lists it as 2.75V.
Perhaps that has been my problem, running it under voltage?


Don

What clock speed are you running at?

 

[VanShania]

The raid drivers are located on the motherboard disk that are transfered to
a floppy, you will have to get one(there cheap). Your motherboard manual
should be able to walk you through it. My Asus manual and Gigabyte manual
do.

--
Sapphire X1600 Pro 512mb AGP
MSI Theater 550Pro TV Tuner
Thermaltake LanFire Midtower(4X80mm fans),Antec 550 Watt PSU
Gigabyte GA-K8NSC-939 nForce3, A64 3500+, Stock Cooler IdleTemp 28 C
2 Gb Dual Channel PC3200 OCZ Platinum 2-3-2-5 CL2.5
Viewsonic A91f 19in Moniter
2XSATA WD 320gb Raid Edition, PATA WD 120Gb HD
Pioneer 110D Dual Layer burner
Logitech MX 310 Optical Mouse
Microsoft Sidewinder Precision 2 Joystick
Microsoft ergonomic keyboard
Cheap computer speakers with Sennheiser HD 477 Headphones

3DMark05Free-Overall-3134 1024X768, 4XAA/8XAF 6.4Drivers
Cpu - 4405
3Dmark2001 - 8702 4XAA/8XAF 1280X1024

Games I'm Playing- IL-2 Sturmovick Series
Empire Earth 2, Need For Speed: Underground 2,
Civ IV, Warhammer 40,000 Gold

Hmm, now that is interesting, the raid drivers came on a floppy right?

I never installed those, as I don't have a working floppy in the system
right now.