Help with Intel Mobo and Fan...

[Uncle Vinnie]

RE: Intel D815EEA, XP Home, 1.2Piii w/ Upgradeware adapter.

I am trying to isolate problems I've had where the computer either shuts
down or BSOD, or won't start up. I have swapped processors, swapped
adapters (similar to powerleaps), swapped motherboards, swapped hard drive,
swapped memory (straight 133's to low density), power supply, and cleared
the BIOS

I am down to the only consistent thing left that may make sense. I have not
been plugging the processor fan into the processor fan connector on the
motherboard. I have been plugging it into the connector near the CD
connectors. The reason is because when using Intel's Active Monitor
program, it can read from the connector and show the fans RPM's, which I
like in case of fan failure.

BUT, is there something either with the software, or even hardware on the
D815EEA that may cause shutdown if there isn't a fan connected to the
processor fan connector? That might make sense to me.

BTW, the Tualatin adaptor (Upgradeware and Powerleap) have both been tested
to work on this motherboard using BIOS P10, which I have. Emails to tech
support have them stumped- it should work!

Thanks!

 

[kony]

RE: Intel D815EEA, XP Home, 1.2Piii w/ Upgradeware adapter.

I am trying to isolate problems I've had where the computer either shuts
down or BSOD, or won't start up.

Shut downs are more likely:

fan failure/overheating (check fans),

power supply problem (is it generic, what make/model and
what other components are in the system?) You might take
voltage readings with a multimeter or at least check if/what
the bios reports for voltages as well.

Motherboard failure- examine the board, particularly looking
for failed capacitors. IE- caps that are domed, vented,
leaky residue on the tops or bottoms most commonly on the
larger caps about the CPU socket, memory or AGP slot.

Rarely other component failures can cause it, briefly
inspect other cards, cables, etc. If in doubt about a
component (and if possible) remove and/or replace it (if you
have a spare), and retry system.

I have swapped processors, swapped
adapters (similar to powerleaps), swapped motherboards, swapped hard drive,
swapped memory (straight 133's to low density), power supply, and cleared
the BIOS

To be clear- the system does somewhat work (up until it
fails)? Is there any commonality to the problem, for
example length of time system has been running, ambient room
temps, other heavy loads on same AC circuit (like
refridgerator or AC, etc), or other generalized AC power
problems in your home/region?

What do the bluescreens state?
Check the WinXP Event Viewer.

When you swapped the power supply, was it with a known good
supply? Two generics both with insufficient 5V amperage
could both cause similar (same) problem. Generally it's not
difficult to power a Tualatin based system from an "average"
power supply though, so unless the other system components
were a heavy load it would have to be pretty poor power.

I am down to the only consistent thing left that may make sense. I have not
been plugging the processor fan into the processor fan connector on the
motherboard. I have been plugging it into the connector near the CD
connectors. The reason is because when using Intel's Active Monitor
program, it can read from the connector and show the fans RPM's, which I
like in case of fan failure.

You might check the bios for settings relating to the fan
sensors & shutdown potential. I dont' think that should
cause a bluescreen. Regardless, it is easy enough to
simply, temporarily replug the fan into the originally
intended connector and run system to check this.

BUT, is there something either with the software, or even hardware on the
D815EEA that may cause shutdown if there isn't a fan connected to the
processor fan connector? That might make sense to me.

BTW, the Tualatin adaptor (Upgradeware and Powerleap) have both been tested
to work on this motherboard using BIOS P10, which I have. Emails to tech
support have them stumped- it should work!

Thanks!

If you still have the old (or another suitable) CPU besides
the Tualatin, one that doesn't use the CPU adapter, try
that.

The typical generic course is to strip system down to only
bare essentials- to post, then adding things back one at a
time. If there are still problems, remove mobo from case
and test on a desk- not on an anti-static mat. Disconnect
case panel wiring too, sometimes simple things like a stuck
power button can be problematic. The mobo can be turned on
by shorting the two power-on pins with a paperclip,
screwdriver tip, etc- carefully so as to not short wrong
thing.

It could even be that you have multiple problems, for
example a motherboard failing plus memory errors. Programs
like memtest86 can check the memory.

 

[Uncle Vinnie]

Hmmmm.. maybe it is the power supply... 145 watt, dvd, cdrw, hd, firewire
card, tv card, modem, usb printer...


it runs at about 11.5 volts...

usually happens in about a day or so...

When it does, the pc will not usually start up again for a while...

 

[kony]

Hmmmm.. maybe it is the power supply... 145 watt, dvd, cdrw, hd, firewire
card, tv card, modem, usb printer...


it runs at about 11.5 volts...

usually happens in about a day or so...

When it does, the pc will not usually start up again for a while...

Even if/when a power supply works, if it's running near max
capacity it won't last nearly as long. In other words just
because the power supply once handled the system and may
still "seem" to somewhat work, it would be prudent to
replace it... I can't know for certain that it's the current
problem but it seems a problem waiting to happen either way.

11.5V is within the 5%/10% spec for 12V, but if anything
such a system using a lot of 5V amperage should've had a bit
too high a 12V rail, not too low. The % deviation should
account for maximum and minimum ripple values moreso than
constant running state... and when pushed your system may in
fact drop too low, but such things may not be obvious from a
software monitor or meter reading unless it has a lot of
resolution and captures max/min values.

 

[Uncle Vinnie]

Thanks Dave... I replaced it with a 250...

This 'could' be the one commonality left...

This PS replaced the previous 145 watt PS. Event Viewer shows nothing out
of the norm. I wish it did. This is the one computer I built and for some
reason I have not been able to resolve the occasional unexpected shutdown-
you've helped along the way and I appreciate it!

 

[Uncle Vinnie]

Well.. the power supply is not it.... BSOD again. My daughter shut down,
so I don't know what it was.

Maybe one driver??? This has been going on a year and a half and I cannot
for the life of me figure out what it could be. Even Viewer has nothing...
right click my computer, and there are no 'exclamation points'...where else
can I look???

Thank you.. I am literally at whit's end....

 

[kony]

Well.. the power supply is not it.... BSOD again. My daughter shut down,
so I don't know what it was.

BSOD is possibly just windows-acting-like-windows-does.
That is, there are a multitude of things that could be
interacting at this point.

Is the system still shutting off? Or did "shut down" not
mean "shut off" but rather, reboot?

Shutdowns and failures to start are most commonly the power
supply. However, if the system had been running in an
instable state for a time, it's quite possible you now have
file corruption, or even worse- large amounts of ripple from
an insufficient (or defective, etc) power supply can in fact
damage other parts, those other parts can even "die" from
that before the power supply itself degrades enough to force
replacement. Basically when it's insufficient capacity, the
voltage drops more per any load and the capacitors on other
components are depleted much moreso as they had higher
potential still. That wears them out faster.

Maybe one driver???

You can certainly disable anything you can do without.
It's not quite clear how frequent this (any particular
aspect of the multiple failures: BSOD, shut down, and
failure-to-start) occurs, if there is any commonality to any
or all of them. Sometimes it can be something as simple as
two apps that don't get along- for the BSOD at least, not
the shut down or failure to turn on.

If I were putting odds down, the failure to start would be
either power (are you sure the replacement PSU is
good/adequate?), or motherboard. However, odds are just
that- if I replied this way to 10 people and odds were 9:1,
I might be wrong one of those times.

This has been going on a year and a half

This same problem for a year and a half?
I dont' recall at the moment, but are you running most
recent motherboard bios?

If possible, I'd consider making a backup of the current OS
partition and doing a clean OS install as a testbed, then
adding no drivers yet, trying to reproduce the problem and
gradually adding back drivers. Other options include one of
those boot-from-CD linux distros to try another OS, or
running something like memtest86 for a day, Prime 95's
Torture Test for several hours, 3DMark (whichever version is
appropriate for your age/performance-level of video card,
perhaps 3DMark '99 or 2000 if the video is as old as the
board).

and I cannot
for the life of me figure out what it could be. Even Viewer has nothing...
right click my computer, and there are no 'exclamation points'...where else
can I look???

Can you monitor temps and voltages?
You might see if MBM5 (motherboard monitor) supports your
system and if it'll log the parameters... though a
multimeter is nice for voltage readings too.

Is it possible the board is shorting out on a misplaced
motherboard tray standoff? If all else fails, pull the
board and set it up on a desk in a minimalistic
configuration.

Thank you.. I am literally at whit's end....

Sometimes it's simply easier to swap in other parts... and
other times a box gets old enough that it's not worthwhile
to hunt down the parts. If all else fails, "most" of the
parts are probably good still, you could always ebay a large
chunk of parts "as is", perhaps with a note about
"something" being amiss but that it's at least working
enough that someone with the spare parts could figure it
out.

 

[Uncle Vinnie]

Dave...

Here's a synopsis:

I have swapped identical motherboards, standoff pins are fine, swapped
Processors, adapters, power supply (145 watt/ 250 watt), hard drive.

I have pulled out the TV card, firewire card, and modem.

I am currently running it, and will for the next few days, with an 800mhz
processor and 2 straight 256/133's (high density). The commonality may be
the use of AN adaptor- perhaps posting at an overclockers forum might make
some sense.. If you were in Jersey, I'd bring the box over to you with a
large cup of coffee and a check!

Anyway, when the system shuts down, it either goes BSOD and remains there,
or shuts down with power light/ drive light still on. It at times takes a
while before it will start up. As if it either has to drain, reset, who
knows. Hence, my thinking it's hardware. Yet, how can I have the same
problem with all these parts, particularly 2 different motherboards???

Upgradeware and Powerleap have both listed this board as tested and approved
with the adaptor, using P10 BIOS... Where else can I look, or get a peek at
what's causing this??/

Thank you very much!

 

[kony]

Dave...

Here's a synopsis:

I have swapped identical motherboards, standoff pins are fine, swapped
Processors, adapters, power supply (145 watt/ 250 watt), hard drive.

I have pulled out the TV card, firewire card, and modem.

I am currently running it, and will for the next few days, with an 800mhz
processor and 2 straight 256/133's (high density). The commonality may be
the use of AN adaptor- perhaps posting at an overclockers forum might make
some sense.. If you were in Jersey, I'd bring the box over to you with a
large cup of coffee and a check!

Anyway, when the system shuts down, it either goes BSOD and remains there,
or shuts down with power light/ drive light still on. It at times takes a
while before it will start up. As if it either has to drain, reset, who
knows. Hence, my thinking it's hardware. Yet, how can I have the same
problem with all these parts, particularly 2 different motherboards???

Upgradeware and Powerleap have both listed this board as tested and approved
with the adaptor, using P10 BIOS... Where else can I look, or get a peek at
what's causing this??/

Thank you very much!

I"m about out of ideas. If you had a higher capacity power
supply, something with a lot of 5V amp capacity, I'd try
that. Another alternative might be modding one setup so it
doesn't use the poweleap adapter at all. That involves
insulating one or two socket pins and slightly boring out a
couple socket holes, maybe breaking off an unused (but not
allowed to be connected) pin on the CPU too. There are
details about doing it here,
http://www.geocities.com/_lunchbox/
though I've never tried it on an Intel 815 board.

 

[Uncle Vinnie]

Thanks again! Yes, I've seen this link in the past... great site...

How about this approach- what else tracks like Eventvwr? Is there something
that tracks the BIOS problems? Or how about Bios adjustments I could make,
usually I leave that alone... maybe some settings? I also read something
about L2 cache issues....

I'm getting desperate!

 

[kony]

Thanks again! Yes, I've seen this link in the past... great site...

How about this approach- what else tracks like Eventvwr? Is there something
that tracks the BIOS problems? Or how about Bios adjustments I could make,
usually I leave that alone... maybe some settings? I also read something
about L2 cache issues....

I'm getting desperate!

No there is nothing like Eventviewer that tracks BIOS
problems, but then outside of bugs they (hopfully(?) aren't
aware of and thus can't track) the rest of bios isn't a
matter of errors per se, as it is user adjustable and
dictates things- it doesn't error but rather, errors would
result. In effect, the hardware the host, the bios the
intermediary, and the OS the client- different roles.

You might try clearing the CMOS and updating the bios.
Rarely downgrading the bios can help. You might try
reducing the FSB speed or increasing the vcore voltage (if
possible). You could try several things but you mention not
whether you've ran tests like Prime 95 or Memtest86- it
would be good to get an idea of WHAT specifically is causing
these errors. As for the startup issue, being that it seems
intermittent (else the system wouldn't run at all, right?)
it would seem either power or physical contact issues.

Since the Tualatin is yet another variable, IF you had
another (Coppermine) CPU available you might first
underclock the Tualatin and if there are still errors,
compare to a Coppermine running at same FSB & memory speed.

At a certain point it may not be worth the time to
troubleshoot the same parts- either substituting different
parts again, like a different CPU, or just cutting your
losses and selling it off. There might also be some
Tualatin supportive motherboards in the market for fairly
cheap at surplus 'sites, you might recoup some of the cost
by selling the adapter.

 

[Uncle Vinnie]

Question: How about one of those utilities that enable you to overclock or
make adjustments to chip speed/multiplier, etc?

Maybe that can help if I slow things down a little?

 

[kony]

Question: How about one of those utilities that enable you to overclock or
make adjustments to chip speed/multiplier, etc?

Don't know, try one.
I've no idea what may support that board, but the typical
bios or jumper options would be a good first attempt,
perhaps better overall because dynamic changes on older
boards sometimes did not change the PCI and/or AGP rate
ratios.

Maybe that can help if I slow things down a little?

Maybe, try it. I dont' have the board and can't advise on
what would be necessary to accomplish that. Among other
things there may be the option of isolating a FSB selection
pin on the CPU... Google search for that.

 

[Bob Bailin]

Just to jump in here:

You might want to go on Ebay and buy a D815EEA2 mb,
which supports Tualatin processors directly.

I found this one that should be right in your price range:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=6772561684

and is scheduled to end in a day or so.

Even with the new motherboard, you'll probably need to back up
your data and perform a fresh install, using the latest SP2.

Also, the 815EEA2 has an event log in the BIOS, but I've never
seen anything posted to it.

Bob

 

[Uncle Vinnie]

Thanks Bob.. can you tell me the difference between EEA and EEA2? Do I have
to do a clean install, are the boards similar enough where autodetect, and
XP registration features can make a few adjustments??

Thanks...

 

[kony]

Thanks Bob.. can you tell me the difference between EEA and EEA2? Do I have
to do a clean install, are the boards similar enough where autodetect, and
XP registration features can make a few adjustments??

They are similar enough that there's a very good chance XP
can plug-n-play any minor differences without a repair
install. Note "repair install", you should not need to do a
clean install to switch from one to the other.

XP though, if you'd switched enough parts recently it could
still require reactivation but in the larger picture that's
a minor detail.

 

[Bob Bailin]

Virtually identical. The EEA2 supports the Tualatin CPUs, the EEA does not.
See http://support.intel.com for more info.

Bob

 

[Ed Medlin]

Virtually identical. The EEA2 supports the Tualatin CPUs, the EEA does
not.
See http://support.intel.com for more info.

You probably will be able to just install and go looking at that. At worst,
a repair install and SP2. I have been following your problem and my insticts
say the adapter is probably the culprit. I have tried those several times
and some work fine and some give strange problems similiar to yours.

Ed

 

[Uncle Vinnie]

Thanks Ed...

In my case, I have successfully upgraded my Compaq 5000, as well as a Dell
XPS-T450, and my daughter's older Dell (L350?) All work great, and have
give new life to these older computers, and are fine for our needs.

This board, similar to one in a Dell Dimension 4100, have been tested to
work with both the PowerLeap and Upgradeware adaptors. In my case, the
board runs fine with an 800mhz Piii. I have experienced instability, which
really must be hardware related, using the adaptor and a 1.2 Piii. I have
swapped the adapters and 1.2's from my Compaq in an effort to see if it's a
particular adapter, a particular CPU, and no difference. Same for memory
(different speeds, brands, etc..), power supply, hard drives, even
motherboards... no luck. Yet both claim it should work...

The reason I believe it's hardware is because when the system does go dead
(lights on) or BSOD, it might take minutes, unplugged, before it will go
back on again. Or even a clearing of the CMOS.

It's running fine at 800... but I wish I could resolve the issue....

 

[Uncle Vinnie]

I just came across something.. could it be the cpu is overheating???? I also
found something, go into BIOS and change the settings from automatic, to '3'
(versus '2'), this is uncharted territory for me.. does it make sense??