HD file transfer question (using Norton Ghost to migrate the C: HD) (1st post here)

[raylopez99]

Great forum, my first post here.

My C: hard drive is getting full and I want to replace it, without
having to do a clean reinstall. I use Norton Ghost to periodically
take a bootable image file "snapshot" of the C: drive (DOS version,
but it works for Windows XP with NTFS format). I have successfully
used this program to reinstall a previous snapshot to reinstall a
previous state of my PC (Windows XP Pro, Pentium IV) whenever I
install a program that screws up my C: drive, which happens every year
or so.

My plan: take a snapshot of my old HD using Norton Ghost, and move
the snapshot to an external drive. Then install a new, blank,
bootable HD. Then, use Norton Ghost again to transfer the bootable
image file snapshot onto the new HD. I should get my old desktop
again, no?

The only problem I see (and the reason I'm posting): since the new HD
will not have the same cylinders/platters/etc as the old HD, will this
affect the ability to read or load the snapshot?

Any suggestions on this issue or on how to migrate C: drive files onto
a new HD easily are welcome.

RL

 

[Jerry]

Great forum, my first post here.

My C: hard drive is getting full and I want to replace it, without
having to do a clean reinstall. I use Norton Ghost to periodically
take a bootable image file "snapshot" of the C: drive (DOS version,
but it works for Windows XP with NTFS format). I have successfully
used this program to reinstall a previous snapshot to reinstall a
previous state of my PC (Windows XP Pro, Pentium IV) whenever I
install a program that screws up my C: drive, which happens every year
or so.

My plan: take a snapshot of my old HD using Norton Ghost, and move
the snapshot to an external drive. Then install a new, blank,
bootable HD. Then, use Norton Ghost again to transfer the bootable
image file snapshot onto the new HD. I should get my old desktop
again, no?

The only problem I see (and the reason I'm posting): since the new HD
will not have the same cylinders/platters/etc as the old HD, will this
affect the ability to read or load the snapshot?

Any suggestions on this issue or on how to migrate C: drive files onto
a new HD easily are welcome.

RL

Using Ghost to create an image and then restore it to a new hard drive will
work just fine. My only concern is the description of your procedure. You
say you will "take a snapshot of my old HD using Norton Ghost and move the
snapshot to an external drive", why would you need to move the image to the
external disk? Just create the image on the external disk, no moving
needed. Your only other concern is if your computer will correctly identify
the new disk.

 

[Paul]

Great forum, my first post here.

My C: hard drive is getting full and I want to replace it, without
having to do a clean reinstall. I use Norton Ghost to periodically
take a bootable image file "snapshot" of the C: drive (DOS version,
but it works for Windows XP with NTFS format). I have successfully
used this program to reinstall a previous snapshot to reinstall a
previous state of my PC (Windows XP Pro, Pentium IV) whenever I
install a program that screws up my C: drive, which happens every year
or so.

My plan: take a snapshot of my old HD using Norton Ghost, and move
the snapshot to an external drive. Then install a new, blank,
bootable HD. Then, use Norton Ghost again to transfer the bootable
image file snapshot onto the new HD. I should get my old desktop
again, no?

The only problem I see (and the reason I'm posting): since the new HD
will not have the same cylinders/platters/etc as the old HD, will this
affect the ability to read or load the snapshot?

Any suggestions on this issue or on how to migrate C: drive files onto
a new HD easily are welcome.

RL

If a backup tool does it file-by-file, there is no reason for a problem
caused by a larger disk with different geometry as the destination target.

If you insist on an "image" backup, where every sector is just blindly
copied, then some of the information copied, will leave the partition
information at the same size as before. It means a larger disk would have
some unallocated space at the end. To fix that, you would use a
partition tool (I use an old copy of Partition Magic, but there are
others). A partition tool allows the resizing of a partition, to take
advantage of unallocated space.

Also, if you are buying a new drive, be aware that the disk manufacturer
has tools for download on their web site. The tools will make preparing
a new disk a lot easier.

This is in "support:downloads:discwizard", in case the link doesn't work...
http://www.seagate.com/ww/v/index.j...toid=d9fd4a3cdde5c010VgnVCM100000dd04090aRCRD

"Data Migration:

If you are upgrading and want to migrate your data from the old drive
to the new drive we provide DiscWizard as an option."

HTH,
Paul

 

[Anna]

Using Ghost to create an image and then restore it to a new hard drive
will work just fine. My only concern is the description of your
procedure. You say you will "take a snapshot of my old HD using Norton
Ghost and move the snapshot to an external drive", why would you need to
move the image to the external disk? Just create the image on the
external disk, no moving needed. Your only other concern is if your
computer will correctly identify the new disk.

RL:
Jerry's suggestion is just fine if you want to pursue Ghost's disk imaging
capability to restore the image. But is there any reason why you would not
want to undertake a more direct route in terms of using your Ghost program
to simply clone the contents of your present HDD onto your new HDD? Isn't
that a more straightforward & simple process to achieve your objective?
Anna

 

[Lil' Dave]

Great forum, my first post here.

My C: hard drive is getting full and I want to replace it, without
having to do a clean reinstall. I use Norton Ghost to periodically
take a bootable image file "snapshot" of the C: drive (DOS version,
but it works for Windows XP with NTFS format). I have successfully
used this program to reinstall a previous snapshot to reinstall a
previous state of my PC (Windows XP Pro, Pentium IV) whenever I
install a program that screws up my C: drive, which happens every year
or so.

My plan: take a snapshot of my old HD using Norton Ghost, and move
the snapshot to an external drive. Then install a new, blank,
bootable HD. Then, use Norton Ghost again to transfer the bootable
image file snapshot onto the new HD. I should get my old desktop
again, no?

The only problem I see (and the reason I'm posting): since the new HD
will not have the same cylinders/platters/etc as the old HD, will this
affect the ability to read or load the snapshot?

Any suggestions on this issue or on how to migrate C: drive files onto
a new HD easily are welcome.

RL

Terminology you're using is really throwing me for a loop. I've determined
by implying in your post that:
You only have one partition on your current hard drive.
You've used the imaging program in Norton Ghost (version unknown) to image
that partition to an external hard drive.
You've successfully restored that image from the external hard to your
current hard drive in the past.
You want to do the same now, except, restore that image to a larger capacity
hard drive.
You seem unaware that image restorations result in the same size partition
as previously imaged.
You may be unaware of bios interpretation of a capacity of hard drive may
affect the capacity usage of the larger hard drive. That is, able to use
the entire capacity of a larger hard drive.
You may be unaware of Ghost's copy drive function.

Yes, make an image of the old hard drive to your external hard drive.
Remove the external.
Use the copy function in Ghost with both hard drives connected in
master/slave style. When finished copying, remove the old hard drive.
Connect the new hard drive at the end of the ide cable. Set the jumper as
master (master alone if a western digital).

If the copied hard drive is having problems booting, try a repair install.
If unable to correct, restore the image from the external drive to the new
drive as setup now. A partitioning program on bootable media is needed to
increase the size of that partition to use the entire hard drive. 2 commons
retail ones nowadays is Partition Magic by Symantec, and Partition Commander
by v-com.com

If the old hard drive is less the 128GB, and the new hard drive is more than
that, your bios may have problems recognizing the entire capacity of the new
hard drive.
Dave

 

[raylopez99]

Using Ghost to create an image and then restore it to a new hard drive will
work just fine. My only concern is the description of your procedure. You
say you will "take a snapshot of my old HD using Norton Ghost and move the
snapshot to an external drive", why would you need to move the image to the
external disk? Just create the image on the external disk, no moving
needed. Your only other concern is if your computer will correctly identify
the new disk.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Hi--my bad, let me clarify: the external drive is actually the D:
drive that is in FAT format.

As for identifying the new disk, why not? Worse comes to worse, you
play around with the BIOS and enter the heads, cylinders, etc, no?

I don't see you "only other concern"

Thanks,

RL

 

[raylopez99]

raylopez99 wrote:

If a backup tool does it file-by-file, there is no reason for a problem
caused by a larger disk with different geometry as the destination target.

I agree. I think, based on just looking at Norton Ghost as it works,
that indeed it's "file by file" transfer although the ultimate file is
always a huge (several GB) file with a proprietary .GHS or .GSO
format.

If you insist on an "image" backup, where every sector is just blindly
copied, then some of the information copied, will leave the partition
information at the same size as before. It means a larger disk would have
some unallocated space at the end. To fix that, you would use a
partition tool (I use an old copy of Partition Magic, but there are
others). A partition tool allows the resizing of a partition, to take
advantage of unallocated space.

Thanks--I did not realize that, but resizing the disk is not my main
concern at this point.

I lost my old copy of Partition Magic--if you have a freeware version,
let me know, or I might just have to buy the latest PM.

Also, if you are buying a new drive, be aware that the disk manufacturer
has tools for download on their web site. The tools will make preparing
a new disk a lot easier.

This is in "support:downloads:discwizard", in case the link doesn't work...http://www.seagate.com/ww/v/index.jsp?locale=en-US&name=DiscWizard&vg...

"Data Migration:

If you are upgrading and want to migrate your data from the old drive
to the new drive we provide DiscWizard as an option."

HTH,
Paul- Hide quoted text -

Thanks--I checked this out, and if you think (as I do) that this
Seagate freeware software works with a Western Digital drive (as I
expect it does; I'm probably going to buy a WD drive), feel free to
opine.

RL

 

[raylopez99]

Jerry's suggestion is just fine if you want to pursue Ghost's disk imaging
capability to restore the image. But is there any reason why you would not
want to undertake a more direct route in terms of using your Ghost program
to simply clone the contents of your present HDD onto your new HDD? Isn't
that a more straightforward & simple process to achieve your objective?
Anna

I doubt it--unless I misunderstood.

How can I clone my present HDD, if it's the "C" drive? You need to
bootup from the C drive. So you therefore need to clone C: to D:
(what I erroneously called the "external drive" in my original post)

Thanks,

RL

 

[raylopez99]

"raylopez99" <[email protected]> wrote in message

Terminology you're using is really throwing me for a loop. I've determined
by implying in your post that:
You only have one partition on your current hard drive.

Essentially, yes. I do have a D: drive but it's in FAT not NTFS
format.

You've used the imaging program in Norton Ghost (version unknown) to image
that partition to an external hard drive.

Yes, essentially. The D: drive is what I erroneously called the
"external" HD, but a small mistake in lingo.

You've successfully restored that image from the external hard to your
current hard drive in the past.

Yes, many times with no problems. Saved my bacon innumerably. Norton
Ghost is great, and I got it as freeware to boot.

You want to do the same now, except, restore that image to a larger capacity
hard drive.

Yes, but keep in mind I'm going to swap the C: drive. I hope the new
C: drive comes reformatted in DOS and is therefore bootable, but even
if it doesn't, I can do the format c: /sys or whatever switch from DOS
(booting from a CD-ROM or A: drive). Done that years ago, and I can
lookup the procedure again. No big deal.

You seem unaware that image restorations result in the same size partition
as previously imaged.

Yes, you're correct, I was unaware. But that's not a big deal--I'll
resize the partition later using Partition Magic.

You may be unaware of bios interpretation of a capacity of hard drive may
affect the capacity usage of the larger hard drive. That is, able to use
the entire capacity of a larger hard drive.

OK, but most HDs are "auto" recognized by BIOS so I assume that's not
a big deal.

You may be unaware of Ghost's copy drive function.

Correct. I am unaware but how does the 'copy drive function' simplify
anything? I think Ghost image files do the same thing. Remember:
the C: drive is where all you root sector stuff is--and you cannot
easily (last I checked) "XCOPY" that stuff to a new drive. You gotta
do a sector by sector copy (Ghost).

Yes, make an image of the old hard drive to your external hard drive.
Remove the external.

OK, I assume this is as a backup, for safety purposes.

Use the copy function in Ghost with both hard drives connected in
master/slave style. When finished copying, remove the old hard drive.
Connect the new hard drive at the end of the ide cable. Set the jumper as
master (master alone if a western digital).

If the copied hard drive is having problems booting, try a repair install.

Sorry, but no way am I going to follow this... "repair install"
doesn't sound good. I'm sticking to my original gameplan unless
compelling reasons are offered as to why not.

If unable to correct, restore the image from the external drive to the new
drive as setup now. A partitioning program on bootable media is needed to
increase the size of that partition to use the entire hard drive. 2 commons
retail ones nowadays is Partition Magic by Symantec, and Partition Commander
by v-com.com

I think these programs will come in handy after the new HD boots up
with the "old" HD image--then I'll resize. Thanks for mentioning
Partition Commander--never heard of it, and if it's cheaper I'll buy
it instead of PM by Symantec, since I don't really like Symantec too
much anyway.

If the old hard drive is less the 128GB, and the new hard drive is more than
that, your bios may have problems recognizing the entire capacity of the new
hard drive.

I hope not--but who knows? My PC is from 2002, not that old--you
really think that might be a problem?

RL

 

[Jerry]

If a backup tool does it file-by-file, there is no reason for a problem
caused by a larger disk with different geometry as the destination target.

If you insist on an "image" backup, where every sector is just blindly
copied, then some of the information copied, will leave the partition
information at the same size as before. It means a larger disk would have
some unallocated space at the end. To fix that, you would use a
partition tool (I use an old copy of Partition Magic, but there are
others). A partition tool allows the resizing of a partition, to take
advantage of unallocated space.

Ghost doesn't work like that, you can restore the image to any size disk as
long as it is big enough. If you go from an 80 to a 250 then you will have
a single 250 gb partition exactly like the original.

 

[Anna]

RL:
Jerry's suggestion is just fine if you want to pursue Ghost's disk imaging
capability to restore the image. But is there any reason why you would not
want to undertake a more direct route in terms of using your Ghost program
to simply clone the contents of your present HDD onto your new HDD? Isn't
that a more straightforward & simple process to achieve your objective?
Anna

I doubt it--unless I misunderstood.

How can I clone my present HDD, if it's the "C" drive? You need to
bootup from the C drive. So you therefore need to clone C: to D:
(what I erroneously called the "external drive" in my original post)

Thanks,

RL

RL:
1. You've indicated - or so I understand - that you wish to replace your
current boot HDD with a new - presumably larger - HDD. And I take it you
want to transfer all the data on your current HDD - including the OS, all
programs, and user-created data onto the new HDD. In short, copy the
complete contents of your current HDD to a new HDD so that your new HDD will
become the new boot drive. Isn't that what you want to do?

2. So if I have that right, couldn't you simply install the new HDD in your
system as a secondary HDD, then using your Ghost program, clone the contents
of your old HDD to the new one?

Perhaps I misunderstand what you're trying to do.
Anna

 

[Jerry]

RL:
Jerry's suggestion is just fine if you want to pursue Ghost's disk imaging
capability to restore the image. But is there any reason why you would not
want to undertake a more direct route in terms of using your Ghost program
to simply clone the contents of your present HDD onto your new HDD? Isn't
that a more straightforward & simple process to achieve your objective?
Anna

Anna is correct and her suggestion is the quickest and easiest. Just
install the 2nd hard drive and do a copy with ghost. I do that all the time
between disks of different sizes as my backup procedure. I can make a
working clone of a disk with 20gb of data in less than 15 minutes.

 

[raylopez99]

Anna is correct and her suggestion is the quickest and easiest. Just
install the 2nd hard drive and do a copy with ghost. I do that all the time
between disks of different sizes as my backup procedure. I can make a
working clone of a disk with 20gb of data in less than 15 minutes.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Very interesting Jerry.

So, given my configuration of two internal HDs (one C:, one D:, each a
seperate drive), I would buy a new, bigger third drive, (which will
become my new C: drive) swap out the D: drive with this new drive
(because I think my BIOS only supports two IDE HDs), then do a copy
with Ghost to the new drive. Then I would swap the old and new "C:"
drives, and put back in place the original "D:" drive, right?

But if this is what you are proposing, though it may indeed be
quicker, it's too much screwing around with swapping drives by
physically unscrewing them and rescrewing them in the bays, pun
intended.

I'll stick to my original plan.

RL

 

[Jerry]

Very interesting Jerry.

So, given my configuration of two internal HDs (one C:, one D:, each a
seperate drive), I would buy a new, bigger third drive, (which will
become my new C: drive) swap out the D: drive with this new drive
(because I think my BIOS only supports two IDE HDs), then do a copy
with Ghost to the new drive. Then I would swap the old and new "C:"
drives, and put back in place the original "D:" drive, right?

But if this is what you are proposing, though it may indeed be
quicker, it's too much screwing around with swapping drives by
physically unscrewing them and rescrewing them in the bays, pun
intended.

I'll stick to my original plan.

RL

Nothing wrong with your original plan. I use all removable drive trays, so
swapping drives around is no problem for me.

 

[Paul]

Thanks--I checked this out, and if you think (as I do) that this
Seagate freeware software works with a Western Digital drive (as I
expect it does; I'm probably going to buy a WD drive), feel free to
opine.

RL

It should say somewhere what the requirements are. I suspect at
least one disk in the system has to be Seagate, otherwise they'd
take a huge financial hit because of the large download.

I cannot find an answer on the Seagate site - this site says:

http://www.thefuhrmans.com/drives_install.htm

"Maxtor's MaxBlast, Seagate's DiscWizard, and Western Digital's
Data Lifeguard Tools are free hard drive copying software, but it
only works on their brand of hard drive. The original hard drive
can be made by any manufacturer, but the new C: drive has to be
made by Maxtor, Seagate or Western Digital."

So you may want to check the feature set of each of those tools,
as that may influence your purchase decision. That is why they
come up with promotions like that.

Paul

 

[raylopez99]

It should say somewhere what the requirements are. I suspect at
least one disk in the system has to be Seagate, otherwise they'd
take a huge financial hit because of the large download.

I cannot find an answer on the Seagate site - this site says:

http://www.thefuhrmans.com/drives_install.htm

"Maxtor's MaxBlast, Seagate's DiscWizard, and Western Digital's
Data Lifeguard Tools are free hard drive copying software, but it
only works on their brand of hard drive. The original hard drive
can be made by any manufacturer, but the new C: drive has to be
made by Maxtor, Seagate or Western Digital."

So you may want to check the feature set of each of those tools,
as that may influence your purchase decision. That is why they
come up with promotions like that.

Paul

Yeah, you're right, you need to buy a Seagate drive for the s/w to
work, but now I found a good SG drive and I just might.

RL

 

[raylopez99]

Nothing wrong with your original plan. I use all removable drive trays, so
swapping drives around is no problem for me.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Actually now that I've been thinking, I might must use an USB-to-IDE
kit I have to temporarily but the new HD on a USB bus, then use the
Seagate HD migration s/w that comes with SG drives (see this thread)
to transfer the disc/partition image, then physically move the C:
drive (new replacing old). So I just might go with a variant of your
suggestion after all.

RL

 

[raylopez99]

Thanks to everybody who responded. Some observations:

1/ Originally I thought this problem of old to new HD migration for a
Windows XP Pentium IV system was trivial, so I kind of threw out a
post just to see some replies. The replies got me to thinking and
researching further, and I see the solution now. It apparently is not
a trivial problem, and in the bad old days required many more steps
than now, but now there's disc migration s/w to help you do it
yourself, if you have some PC savvy, which I do.

2/ My system: two physically seperate C: and D: drives. I now intend
to take Jerry's suggestion in this thread and do the following,
without using Norton Ghost, as per my original plan, which would have
worked, but the below plan is even faster.

3/ First, I will buy a new Seagate (SG) drive (probably their ATA
Barracuda family), which will allow me to use their free HD migration
software (see this thread), which works under Windows, unlike Norton
Ghost which works (my version at least) only under DOS. This way I
don't have to reboot too many times into DOS

4/ I happen to have a USB-to-IDE HD conversion kit (great tool to
have). THis will allow me to adopt Jerry's plan without a problem.
Without this I would have had to do a lot of fancy swapping of IDE
cables. Using this kit, I will put the new SG drive on the USB, then
use the SG migration S/W to transfer the "disc/partition image" (this
is the technical term for the "snapshot" per my original post) onto
the new SG drive.

5/ I will then power down, and physically swap out the old C: drive
with the new SG drive. Then I will power back up.

6/ When I boot up, I should have a larger C: drive, no? I don't
think I even need to buy Partition Magic or Disc Commander, another
$40 saved.

If anybody sees any flaws with the above, please let me know.

RL

 

[Anna]

Thanks to everybody who responded. Some observations:

1/ Originally I thought this problem of old to new HD migration for a
Windows XP Pentium IV system was trivial, so I kind of threw out a
post just to see some replies. The replies got me to thinking and
researching further, and I see the solution now. It apparently is not
a trivial problem, and in the bad old days required many more steps
than now, but now there's disc migration s/w to help you do it
yourself, if you have some PC savvy, which I do.

2/ My system: two physically seperate C: and D: drives. I now intend
to take Jerry's suggestion in this thread and do the following,
without using Norton Ghost, as per my original plan, which would have
worked, but the below plan is even faster.

3/ First, I will buy a new Seagate (SG) drive (probably their ATA
Barracuda family), which will allow me to use their free HD migration
software (see this thread), which works under Windows, unlike Norton
Ghost which works (my version at least) only under DOS. This way I
don't have to reboot too many times into DOS

4/ I happen to have a USB-to-IDE HD conversion kit (great tool to
have). THis will allow me to adopt Jerry's plan without a problem.
Without this I would have had to do a lot of fancy swapping of IDE
cables. Using this kit, I will put the new SG drive on the USB, then
use the SG migration S/W to transfer the "disc/partition image" (this
is the technical term for the "snapshot" per my original post) onto
the new SG drive.

5/ I will then power down, and physically swap out the old C: drive
with the new SG drive. Then I will power back up.

6/ When I boot up, I should have a larger C: drive, no? I don't
think I even need to buy Partition Magic or Disc Commander, another
$40 saved.

If anybody sees any flaws with the above, please let me know.

RL

RL:
I'll try this one more time...

Frankly you're making what should be a relatively simple & straightforward
process to clone the contents of one HDD to another HDD much more
complicated than it need be.

You say your Ghost program "works only under DOS". Fine. While you've never
reported the version you're working with I assume it's the Norton Ghost 2003
version.

Since that Ghost version "works only under DOS", I assume you're working
with it using a Ghost bootable floppy disk. Fine. But even if you're not,
you can use its GUI. In any event, whatever version of Ghost you're using I
assume you know how to use the program for disk cloning purposes.

Once more...why don't you simply connect both HDDs in your system - your
source disk and the new HDD and using your Ghost program clone the contents
of the old HDD to the new one? Period.

Isn't that the most simple & straightforward process that you can undertake
to meet your objective?
Anna

 

[Jerry]

RL:
I'll try this one more time...

Frankly you're making what should be a relatively simple & straightforward
process to clone the contents of one HDD to another HDD much more
complicated than it need be.

You say your Ghost program "works only under DOS". Fine. While you've
never reported the version you're working with I assume it's the Norton
Ghost 2003 version.

Since that Ghost version "works only under DOS", I assume you're working
with it using a Ghost bootable floppy disk. Fine. But even if you're not,
you can use its GUI. In any event, whatever version of Ghost you're using
I assume you know how to use the program for disk cloning purposes.

Once more...why don't you simply connect both HDDs in your system - your
source disk and the new HDD and using your Ghost program clone the
contents of the old HDD to the new one? Period.

Isn't that the most simple & straightforward process that you can
undertake to meet your objective?
Anna

I again agree with Anna, your making it a lot harder than it is. Unplug the
D drive cable and plug in your new disk, no need to remove the D drive at
all, just hang the new drive on the cable. Boot the Ghost floppy or cd and
do a disk copy of C to D. Then swap out C for D and your done. The idea of
having a program like Ghost work under DOS is that you don't need anything
else, you don't need to boot into windows, that's the advantage of it.