Future of ADP - new article

[Vadim Rapp]

regarding the topic of the future of ADP's: here's new article from MS:

http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/cc178973.aspx

Some notable excerpts:

"Office Access 2007 offers two ways to connect to SQL Server data: linking
to SQL Server and Access Data Projects (ADPs). The preferred way to connect
to SQL Server is MDB file format or ACCDB file format. This enables you to
use the full flexibility of local tables and local queries, while leveraging
the full power of SQL Server. In addition, MDB and ACCDB files link to
multiple SQL Servers and a wide variety of other data sources. Office Access
2007 contains many new features available in both MDB and ACCDB file
formats, but only a subset of those features are available in ADPs."

I think it would be interesting to take a look at some real-life MDB linked
"to multiple SQL Servers and a wide variety of other data sources". Since
Microsoft sees Access as "personal productivity application" (follows from
their survey on Access team blog), this MDB is probably created by a
business analyst, someone not from IT. Would be interesting to take a look.
Must be pretty reliable data.

"However, there are some scenarios where a report might be generated
significantly faster in an ADP file. To add these performance improvements
and retain the flexibility of SQL Server, you can build the majority of the
application in an MDB or ACCDB file and have the file load reports from a
referenced ADP file."

Obviously, ADP alone would not "retain the flexibility of SQL Server".

"One advantage that ADP files have over files in MDB or ACCDB format is the
ability to make design changes to SQL Server objects. ADP files include
graphical designers for tables, views, stored procedures, functions, and
database diagrams."

Only one advantage, that is.

regards

 

[Robert Morley]

regarding the topic of the future of ADP's: here's new article from MS:

http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/cc178973.aspx

<snip>

It may be a new article, but I recognize some of that wording from a similar
article on Access 2007 back when it came out.

As you mention in your comment to the article, Microsoft seems sadly
disconnected on how ADPs are used in real-world scenarios. While local
caching of tables can certainly be a HUGE benefit in the right scenarios,
it's not at the top of my "needs" list and could be implemented even in an
ADP in a slightly roundabout fashion (either in-memory caching or
programmatic linking to an MDB or similar).

The benefits of having an ADP that behaves just as though the SQL Server
side and the GUI side were all one is enormous. The fact that I don't have
to worry about forgetting to link a newly created object, and spend time
writing code to handle any required linking, unlinking, etc., can't be
overstated.

But let's say for a moment that I wanted to work with a local database and
use linking. How does ACCDB provide me ANY useful tools in that regard...or
any other?!? Let's see:

* Complex data (multi-valued data types)
- Generally not a good design, but it's a "nice to have", I suppose. I'm
not sure how useful it would be in the long run, though, as you then
have to extract the data again to do whatever it is you want to do with
it. More often than not, I would think that leaving separate fields as
separate fields rather than grouping them together into one would be a
better approach.

* Attachment Date type
- Typo much? (Should be "data".)
- The Attachment data type is an interesting idea, but I suspect it will
have limited use. A Memo or Object field could already be used with a
little work to achieve something similar and for large databases, the
2 Gig file size limit for an entire database may be prohibitive once you
start adding "attachments" all over the place. As has always been the
case, you may end up preferring to implement some kind of external file
management scheme rather than "attaching" files internally.

* Append Only Memo fields
- And this is useful how? And why aren't you implementing this sort of
thing in the business- or front-end? Back-end data should ALWAYS be
fully editable by a developer in my concept of what a database is, with
the *possible* exception of keys and timestamps and such.

* Compressed image storage for any Picture property
- This means what?
- Assuming this means internal compression of bitmaps, etc., this is
nice, but unlikely to be a major issue in most databases.

* E-mail database as attachment
- Wow! Really?!? Cuz I couldn't exit the database and e-mail it before
now...honest. MS built it into a menu item...that must have been SUCH
a challenge. And let's not even get into the Outlook security issues
around this.

* <various things> to Office SharePoint Server 2007
- I've never worked in an office that actually USED SharePoint Server, so
naturally, the supposed benefits here make me yawn.

* Linked Tables to files in ACCDB format
- And the point is? I can't imagine this ever being significantly useful.

* Encrypt with database password
- This is new in WHAT way?!? There are some slight differences in
approach here, and the encryption is stronger, but in terms of overall
concept, there's really nothing new here at all.

So all in all, ACCDB provides WHAT benefits, exactly? And MDB/ACCDB is the
preferred format for accessing SQL Server data why again? Seriously, MS,
wake up!



Rob

 

[Vadim Rapp]

E-mail database as attachment

LOL. I didn't even notice _this_ one. I guess it qualifies for the annual
Darwin award.

They probably got this ideas from visiting a photo booth where you can make
a fish-eye picture of yourself and email it to your relatives - now email
the whole database! I suspect it may be even the same brain center marketing
both things. Only problem, that brain with the years has sunk about 3 feet
down.

I strongly suggest that you post your comment below mine on their site. We
have to fight that "brain" center.

 

[Robert Morley]

LOL. I didn't even notice _this_ one. I guess it qualifies for the annual
Darwin award.

They probably got this ideas from visiting a photo booth where you can make
a fish-eye picture of yourself and email it to your relatives - now email
the whole database! I suspect it may be even the same brain center marketing
both things. Only problem, that brain with the years has sunk about 3 feet
down.

I strongly suggest that you post your comment below mine on their site. We
have to fight that "brain" center.

Done!


Rob

 

[Vadim Rapp]

RM> Done!

(y)

Sylvain, maybe you'd join us.

Vadim

 

[KitCaz]

So what do you think this declaration means? Is it a very early sign that
Microsoft will eventually sunset ADP? I'm just starting development on an
app and I chose the ADP route. Will any amount of protesting matter if this
is an ultimate plan?

Chris

 

[Sylvain Lafontaine]

Join you to say what? My opinion - as well as the opinion of many, many
others - is already known.

As for the rest, you should have no concern for the disparition of ADP
because it's an impossible thing to do for MS; the reason beeing that at
this moment, JET with ODBC linked tables and passthrough don't offer support
for Read/Write passthrough queries or for a full support of Unicode.
(Passthrough queries are read-only and the support for Unicode is only very
partial at this moment.). Leaving these two options out would be suicidal
for Access for many big companies and/or for many countries.

What you might see in the future would be the integration of these features
of ADP directly into the ACCDB file format; however, if this happens, nobody
will miss the old format.

 

[ricol]

I have been looking for hours of where the design tool for schemas is hidden
in Access 2007 ADP. Where is it and could it be used in conjunction with the
tools delivered in SQL 2005 Management Studio?

 

[Norman Yuan]

Start an Access2007 ADP, which connected to a SQL Server(2000/2005)
database. All the server object design tools are accessible via "Create" tab
of the ribbon bar: look into "Tables" group and "Others" group.

 

[ricol]

Thanks!! a lot!
Create how obvious..., but when created it is to be found where expected.
But it seems though that either do the work in Access or SQL MS, because
neither shows what is created by the other, two islands as usual.

 

[Norman Yuan]

If you have both SSMS and ADP opening, you need to "refresh" in one to see
the change made in the other. In SSMS, right-click any tree node and select
"Refresh". In older Access(2000/2/3), there is "Refresh" in "View" menu, or
hit "F5". In Access2007, well, god knows where "Refresh" is hidden, I do not
know.

 

[Vadim Rapp]

K> So what do you think this declaration means? Is it a very early sign
K> that Microsoft will eventually sunset ADP?

I think nobody knows for sure, including Microsoft. But since there are many
signs that they are somewhat disconnected from the real developers, I think
there is a chance that active participation in the places where they tend to
be, such as their own blogs, their articles like the one I cited, and so on,
can actually make some change. Without that, they probably are taking "what
the users want" from the articles in magazines sponsored by Microsoft
itself, like Windows IT Pro and such - so they are sure that Vista is bug
success, for example, or that Access is the tool of choice for business
analysts who just love to create on daily basis queries like "select
sum(amount) from orders where month='july'" - you can see this in their
examples in Help. If we can open up their eyes on 0.001" more, why not to
try.

K> Will any amount of protesting matter if this is an ultimate plan?

-----------
The Grand Vizier was walking in the garden with a friend and bragging, as
Grand Viziers sometimes do. “I am the cleverest man in the world. My
cleverness knows no bounds! I am so very clever that I could teach that
miserable donkey over there to talk.” The Caliph, too, was walking in the
garden, and overheard the Vizier’s bragging, as Caliphs sometimes do.
Enraged by this arrogance he determined to teach the Vizier a lesson.
Stepping out of the bushes the Caliph announced to the surprised Vizier, “If
you are so clever, I command you under penalty of death to teach that donkey
to talk. I am not an unjust man so you have a year to accomplish my
command.” The Caliph then stormed off.
The Grand Vizier and his friend continued their walk in the garden, the
Vizier’s friend somewhat astounded that that the Vizier was taking the
Caliph’s command so much in stride and didn’t seem to be bothered at all by
what had just happened. “O Grand Vizier, aren’t you concerned that you are
now under penalty of death?” To which the Vizier replied, “My friend, a year
is a long time. The donkey may die, the Caliph may die, or I may die. Or I
may teach the donkey to talk.”

 

[jhonjey]

I think that dismiss ADP should be a great error from MS.

Anybody knows some news about ADP and the next Office...?

Is there any link to ask MS to mantain ADP in the future...?

Thanks

G. Staibano
CTO TetraSystem
Italy

www.tetrasystem.com