Future Intel Xeons to be designed in India

[Yousuf Khan]

They are talking about a chip coming out in 2007-2008. It will be designed
in Bangalore India. It's current Pentium-M mobile chip was designed in
Isreal. Start of a new trend for Intel?

http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/cpu/display/20040501121856.html

Yousuf Khan

 

[Jon]

Intel does research all over the world, you never know,
I live down the street from one of the two network research
centers, it has 7000 + people in there all day long,

One day I gave it a go to walk in there looking for a pro 100 +
network card, the two locks gates, just past the gaurd tower
where my first lesson, nest was the next set of locked doors & the two armed
garuds

 

[Mike Smith]

They are talking about a chip coming out in 2007-2008. It will be designed
in Bangalore India. It's current Pentium-M mobile chip was designed in
Isreal. Start of a new trend for Intel?

Well, having design facilities in Israel is nothing new. IBM,
Microsoft, and Intel have all had facilities there for quite some time.
Remember back when IBM released that version of OS/2 that could run
your existing installed copy of Windows instead of using Win-OS/2? That
was developed in Haifa, IIRC.

 

[Hugo Drax]

They are talking about a chip coming out in 2007-2008. It will be designed
in Bangalore India. It's current Pentium-M mobile chip was designed in
Isreal. Start of a new trend for Intel?

http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/cpu/display/20040501121856.html

Yousuf Khan

--

Yes since it allows much higher margins in future products when R&D costs
can be dropped. A U.S EE for intel probably makes 80K and you can hire an
Indian EE for about 5K so for the price of 1 US EE you get 16 Indians living
in a tin shack and you can have them work Shifts so productivity never stops
24/7.

I would say 40-50 years from now all farming,manufacturing,development and
buisness processing (Accounting etc...) will be sent overseas, since its
cheaper and provides the companies much higher margins on the end product.

 

[Hugo Drax]

Well, having design facilities in Israel is nothing new. IBM,
Microsoft, and Intel have all had facilities there for quite some time.
Remember back when IBM released that version of OS/2 that could run
your existing installed copy of Windows instead of using Win-OS/2? That
was developed in Haifa, IIRC.

True but I think eventually all development/design will go overseas. it
makes no sense to pay 16 times more for US labor when overseas is 1/16th
cheaper and will afford Intel,IBM etc.. a nice margin on end product.

 

[Ghostrider]

Hugo Drax wrote:

I would say 40-50 years from now all farming,manufacturing,development and
buisness processing (Accounting etc...) will be sent overseas, since its
cheaper and provides the companies much higher margins on the end product.

In this world of high-speed internet connections, business
operations along with applied science research and development
have already moved overseas. While price is one factor, one
cannot forget that education overseas still emphasizes the
skills that are essential to survival, viz., the 3 R's.

 

[Yousuf Khan]

Yes since it allows much higher margins in future products when R&D costs
can be dropped. A U.S EE for intel probably makes 80K and you can hire an
Indian EE for about 5K so for the price of 1 US EE you get 16 Indians living
in a tin shack and you can have them work Shifts so productivity never stops
24/7.

You'd be surprised how luxuriously you can live outside the US for a tenth
of the salary in the US. I think the US cost of living is pretty much out of
sync with the rest of the world.

Yousuf Khan

 

[Aloke Prasad]

You'd be surprised how luxuriously you can live outside the US for a tenth
of the salary in the US. I think the US cost of living is pretty much out of
sync with the rest of the world.

I was about to respond:

Tin shack !! More like a luxurious air conditioned bungalow, company
provided car, with servants doing all the cooking, cleaning, gardening etc
etc.

 

[GSV Three Minds in a Can]

Bitstring
<[email protected]>, from

 

[GSV Three Minds in a Can]

Bitstring
<[email protected]>, from

You'd be surprised how luxuriously you can live outside the US for a tenth
of the salary in the US. I think the US cost of living is pretty much out of
sync with the rest of the world.

That's not completely unrelated to labour costs .. when everyone from a
builder to a policeman is earning 1/10th the USA rate, the cost of
living is bound to be rather lower.

However salaries in India have floated up pretty dramatically these last
10-15 years, and will continue to do so (at least for the educated folks
... and educated Indians are very educated indeed .. which other country
teaches '19 times table' in schools? Heck, which other country does most
of its teaching in what is, to 99% of the pupils, a second language?
8>.)

 

[chrisv]

I was about to respond:

Tin shack !! More like a luxurious air conditioned bungalow, company
provided car, with servants doing all the cooking, cleaning, gardening etc
etc.

But no 10MPG SUV, I'd bet.

8)

 

[chrisv]

I would say 40-50 years from now all farming,manufacturing,development and
buisness processing (Accounting etc...) will be sent overseas, since its
cheaper and provides the companies much higher margins on the end product.

You'd think that the evil businessman would figure-out that the market
for his products will dry up, if people aren't making a decent wage
(in the future US). Alas, the evil businessman is a selfish,
short-sighted person, and figures that if he can make his big
stock-option killing, he and his kids will be alright, and the rest of
the country (including the guy who takes-over his gutted company) can
go pound sand.

 

[GSV Three Minds in a Can]

You'd think that the evil businessman would figure-out that the market
for his products will dry up, if people aren't making a decent wage
(in the future US).

Hmm, defining 'decent' as 50x the global average, I assume?
And assuming that the only market which counts is the US market?
(ISTR there are more $ millionaires in Asia than in the USA)

Yeah well, Usenet =is= kind of parochial that way..

Hint: the universe doesn't own =anyone= a living (although people born
on top of a pool of oil, or a pile of diamond bearing ore, may have some
reason for short term optimism).

 

[Yousuf Khan]

But no 10MPG SUV, I'd bet.

Actually maybe only a 15MPG SUV.

Yousuf Khan

 

[Nadeem]

GSV Three Minds in a Can wrote:
Heck, which other country does most

of its teaching in what is, to 99% of the pupils, a second language? 8>.)

Well...we do!
Republic of Mauritius.

 

[Mike Smith]

I would say 40-50 years from now all farming,manufacturing,development and
buisness processing (Accounting etc...) will be sent overseas, since its
cheaper and provides the companies much higher margins on the end product.

I would say 40-50 years from now, salaries in India/China/Russia etc.
will be a lot closer to those of the rest of the world, thus obviating
much of the economic advantage in outsourcing.

 

[Yousuf Khan]

That's not completely unrelated to labour costs .. when everyone from
a builder to a policeman is earning 1/10th the USA rate, the cost of
living is bound to be rather lower.

However salaries in India have floated up pretty dramatically these
last 10-15 years, and will continue to do so (at least for the
educated folks .. and educated Indians are very educated indeed ..
which other country teaches '19 times table' in schools? Heck, which
other country does most of its teaching in what is, to 99% of the
pupils, a second language? 8>.)

Sure the salaries have floated up in India and in that other giant, China.
But they will take decades to even catch upto US salaries. And then the US
salaries will have to remain stagnant for those intervening decades, before
the Chinese or Indian salaries approach US ones. US salary structures didn't
happen overnight, and they won't be changed overnight either.

I doubt US salaries are ever going to take a tumble just to compete against
these other countries. Nor is it right for US workers to take pay cuts,
considering what the cost of living is in the US. If workers took a pay cut,
would manufacturers also automatically lower prices? Not right away, but as
their sales start tumbling then they would, but in the meantime, a lot
heartache where people can't afford things they were able to afford before,
and sellers losing sales that they used to make easily before.

I know that there is a lot of grumbling in the US about why they should be
losing jobs to overseas. Well, the reason seems to be that the overseas
market is the market manufacturers are going for now. So you can't be having
a high-priced US worker designing and making these products for sales to
people who make a tenth of what they make. If you want to sell to China or
India, then you better hire Chinese or Indians to design these things for
their own people at the costs that their own people can afford. If the
products that they design happen to be sold back to the US at cheaper rates,
then that's only good for consumers.

Yousuf Khan

 

[Wolfgang S. Rupprecht]

True but I think eventually all development/design will go overseas. it
makes no sense to pay 16 times more for US labor when overseas is 1/16th
cheaper and will afford Intel,IBM etc.. a nice margin on end product.

Why stop at development/design? What prevents management from being
outsourced too? Heck, what prevents the board of directors from
outsourcing the CEO position?

-wolfgang

 

[Mike Smith]

Why stop at development/design? What prevents management from being
outsourced too? Heck, what prevents the board of directors from
outsourcing the CEO position?

Well, the CEO is a corporate officer, so that may have something to do
with it. But that aside, there would be no reason not to outsource the
CEO job - *if* they think they can find a capable person who'll do the
job for cheap enough to make it worthwhile. *If*.

 

[David Schwartz]

Sure the salaries have floated up in India and in that other giant, China.
But they will take decades to even catch upto US salaries. And then the US
salaries will have to remain stagnant for those intervening decades,
before
the Chinese or Indian salaries approach US ones. US salary structures
didn't
happen overnight, and they won't be changed overnight either.

The reduction in salaries will be partially balanced out by the
reduction in the cost of goods. If outsourcing reduces the labor costs of
goods, it will reduce the cost of those goods.

I doubt US salaries are ever going to take a tumble just to compete
against
these other countries.

They could. I don't think it's likely, but it's certainly not
impossible. More laborers will be competing on an international market
rather than a national one.

Nor is it right for US workers to take pay cuts,
considering what the cost of living is in the US.

The cost of living will go down.

If workers took a pay cut,
would manufacturers also automatically lower prices?

No, you have the cause and effect backwards. Prices will lower for goods
for the same reason they'll lower for wages -- competition in a larger
economy.

Not right away, but as
their sales start tumbling then they would, but in the meantime, a lot
heartache where people can't afford things they were able to afford
before,
and sellers losing sales that they used to make easily before.

No, sales won't tumble, they'll grow. Cheaper labor means cheaper goods
that poorer people can affort. Globalization means larger markets to sell
goods into.

I know that there is a lot of grumbling in the US about why they should be
losing jobs to overseas. Well, the reason seems to be that the overseas
market is the market manufacturers are going for now. So you can't be
having
a high-priced US worker designing and making these products for sales to
people who make a tenth of what they make.

You can, so long as the US worker's productivity corresponds to his
cost.

If you want to sell to China or
India, then you better hire Chinese or Indians to design these things for
their own people at the costs that their own people can afford. If the
products that they design happen to be sold back to the US at cheaper
rates,
then that's only good for consumers.

Good enough to compensate for wage reductions? It's hard to say. There
could be a few rocky decades as the economy adjusts.

DS