FSB on AMD Athlon 64 3000+

[Neil Barras]

Hi all,

I'm looking at the AMD Athlon 64 3000+ for my next PC. I have heard that
AMD's win in the gaming sector, which is what this system would be for, as I
have my New Laptop and Desktop (See Sig.) for other multimedia uses. My 2
questions are:

1) The FSBs on P4s are apparently quad pumped...meaning that a 400MHz FSB
shows as 100MHz. Is this the case with the AMD chips? The FSB on the chip
I am looking at says 400MHz, but I have also read that Athlons have upto a
2GHz FSB? That's what got me confused...so any lights in the fog would be
appreciated.

2) Would I notice a difference between my current P4 Desktop, and this new
rig?

Specs for new PC:

AMD Athlon 64 3000+ (I think it's a Barton core? 512KB L2?) @ 2.0/2.1GHz
512MB DDR 3200 400MHz RAM
80GB HDD
256MB XFX GeForce5500 (To be taken from Desktop...Til' I get new Gfx.)
Stock 300w PSU (Is this OK for now?)

Thanks,

Neil


--
Desktop = P4 Northwood @ 2.6GHz, 512MB PC2100, 120GB HD, 256MB XFX
GeForce5500, Stock 350w PSU
Oldest Laptop = 486 @ 75MHz, 20MB RAM, 1.4GB HD, Unknown Integrated Graphics
Old Laptop = P3 Coppermine @ 600MHz, 192 PC100, 12GB HD, ATi Rage Pro 4MB
New Laptop = PM Dothan @ 1.6GHz, 512 PC2700, 80GB HD, 64MB ATi Mobility
Radeon 9200
All still in use!

 

[Derek Baker]

Hi all,

I'm looking at the AMD Athlon 64 3000+ for my next PC. I have heard that
AMD's win in the gaming sector, which is what this system would be for, as
I have my New Laptop and Desktop (See Sig.) for other multimedia uses. My
2 questions are:

1) The FSBs on P4s are apparently quad pumped...meaning that a 400MHz FSB
shows as 100MHz. Is this the case with the AMD chips? The FSB on the
chip I am looking at says 400MHz, but I have also read that Athlons have
upto a 2GHz FSB? That's what got me confused...so any lights in the fog
would be appreciated.

2) Would I notice a difference between my current P4 Desktop, and this new
rig?

Specs for new PC:

AMD Athlon 64 3000+ (I think it's a Barton core? 512KB L2?) @ 2.0/2.1GHz
512MB DDR 3200 400MHz RAM
80GB HDD
256MB XFX GeForce5500 (To be taken from Desktop...Til' I get new Gfx.)
Stock 300w PSU (Is this OK for now?)

Thanks,

Neil

1) The memory bus is 200Mhz with DDR400 DRAM. The 2Ghz is wrong. The
hypertransport bus that connects to the chipset runs, on the latest models,
at 1 megatransactions per second and is 16bits wide giving *2GB/sec*.

2) Hard to say. The Athlon 64 would be less of a bottleneck for a future
graphics card.

Barton is an Athlon *XP* core. The Athlon *64* cores with 512KB L2 are
Newcastle, Winchester and Venice.

 

[Derek Baker]

1) The memory bus is 200Mhz with DDR400 DRAM. The 2Ghz is wrong. The
hypertransport bus that connects to the chipset runs, on the latest
models, at 1 megatransactions per second and is 16bits wide giving
*2GB/sec*.

2) Hard to say. The Athlon 64 would be less of a bottleneck for a future
graphics card.

Barton is an Athlon *XP* core. The Athlon *64* cores with 512KB L2 are
Newcastle, Winchester and Venice.

Make that 1 *giga*transaction per second.

 

[Ed]

Hi all,

I'm looking at the AMD Athlon 64 3000+ for my next PC. I have heard that
AMD's win in the gaming sector, which is what this system would be for, as I
have my New Laptop and Desktop (See Sig.) for other multimedia uses. My 2
questions are:

1) The FSBs on P4s are apparently quad pumped...meaning that a 400MHz FSB
shows as 100MHz. Is this the case with the AMD chips? The FSB on the chip
I am looking at says 400MHz, but I have also read that Athlons have upto a
2GHz FSB? That's what got me confused...so any lights in the fog would be
appreciated.

CPU bus is 200MHz (DDR or Double pumped).
HyperTransport bus is 800MHz or 1GHz, (DDR), it really has no effect on
desktop systems performance...
http://www.neoseeker.com/Articles/Hardware/Guides/athlon64oc/index.html

2) Would I notice a difference between my current P4 Desktop, and this new
rig?

Probably... http://anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/showdoc.aspx?i=2249&p=9

Specs for new PC:

AMD Athlon 64 3000+ (I think it's a Barton core? 512KB L2?) @ 2.0/2.1GHz

Barton is a Socket-A chip, Athlon 64's use sockets 754 and 939. Socket
939 chips have Dual Channel Memory controller VS Single channel
controller in Socket 754 chips. Code names....Clawhammer, Newcastle,
Winchester, Venice...etc,etc... http://www.c627627.com/AMD/Athlon64/

512MB DDR 3200 400MHz RAM

Consider 2x512MB if you can afford it.

80GB HDD
256MB XFX GeForce5500 (To be taken from Desktop...Til' I get new Gfx.)
Stock 300w PSU (Is this OK for now?)

Just taking a wild guess.... but I'd say if the PSU has 16A or more on
the 12V line it should be OK.

For CPU power/heat the 90nm Winchester cores look best...
http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/cpu/display/athlon64-venice_6.html

Thanks,

Neil

hth,
Ed

 

[Wes Newell]

I'm looking at the AMD Athlon 64 3000+ for my next PC. I have heard that
AMD's win in the gaming sector, which is what this system would be for, as I
have my New Laptop and Desktop (See Sig.) for other multimedia uses. My 2
questions are:

1) The FSBs on P4s are apparently quad pumped...meaning that a 400MHz FSB
shows as 100MHz. Is this the case with the AMD chips? The FSB on the chip
I am looking at says 400MHz, but I have also read that Athlons have upto a
2GHz FSB? That's what got me confused...so any lights in the fog would be
appreciated.

Yes, the P4's are quad data rate (QDR), so a 100MHz FSB gives it a 400Mbps
data rate per line (not MHz even though that's what they call it). All IO
goes over the FSB on the P4. The A64's FSB is double data rate (DDR), but
also has a seperate memory bus so memory data has it's own seperate bus
direct to the cpu core which makes access to it quite a bit faster. All
other IO still goes over the FSB to the chipset northbridge but no longer
has to compete with memory accesses which gives it faster access also.
With the memory gone, it's really not very critical speed wise any more,
but it is still a lot faster than previous FSB technology. It uses a
serial HT link which can be clocked as high as 1000MHz and uses DDR. For
info on the new HT technology read this.

http://www.hypertransport.org/consortium/cons_faqs.cfm

2) Would I notice a difference between my current P4 Desktop, and this
new rig?

Depends on what you are doing. You can find benchmarks all over the place
to compare the speed.

Specs for new PC:

AMD Athlon 64 3000+ (I think it's a Barton core? 512KB L2?) @ 2.0/2.1GHz

Bartons are K7's, not K8 cores.

512MB DDR 3200 400MHz RAM
80GB HDD
256MB XFX GeForce5500 (To be taken from Desktop...Til' I get new Gfx.)
Stock 300w PSU (Is this OK for now?)

That PSU isn't big enough for the K8. I'm using a $20 600W on mine.

 

[simple minds]

That PSU isn't big enough for the K8. I'm using a $20 600W on mine.

You were doing great right up to the point where you died.

 

[Strings]

Warning "Results not Typical"
Don't even think of using his recommended $20 junk power supply despite his
antidotes on how good they are for him. "Use Common Sense" a $20 600w is
like saying a Brand new car 400hp only $5000 and equal to similar rated cars
with 400hp like a Viper but what you get is golf cart disguised as a car
with a big sticker claiming 400hp, if you pop the hood its a lawn mower
motor.
Read the links attached before choosing a PS. The Truth About Power Supplies
is, Most all look the same although some of them come in eye candy cases
designed to blind buyers common sense and prevent questions of quality. Most
boast unattainable claims of wattage ratings to increase sales by
unsophisticated buyers.
The power supply is the foundation of your PC it does not get as much
consideration as the dazzling parts such as the CPU MHz, Drive speed, gobs
of memory. But the power supply is the most important part of your system so
when it's time to buy a power supply it is essential that you know the
difference between a good or great power supply and one that is marginally
adequate or overrated and $20 600w. Most buyers tend to overlook the
importance of the power supply, but these buyers are declining with the
spread of knowledge on the net. Your power supply is more than just a box
with wires that you plug into a wall. Now that machines are becoming more
extreme or fast they demand increasing amounts of "quality reliable power"
(not $18 ones) buyers can no longer ignore the importance your power supply
plays in your systems reliability.

http://compreviews.about.com/cs/casesandmods/bb/aabybpsus.htm
http://www.silentpcreview.com/article28-page1.html
http://www.amdboard.com/psu.html
http://www4.tomshardware.com/column/20011012/index.html
http://www.tomshardware.com/howto/20041223/index.html
http://www.tomshardware.com/howto/20040122/index.html
http://www.firingsquad.com/guides/power_supply/

Make sure your supply has
Certified compliant for AMDT and Intel® ATX 12V
Over Voltage Protection
Under Voltage Protection
Over Load Protection
Over Current Protection
Over Temperature Protection
Short Circuit Protection
Detective sensor output
Low Noise & Ripple
Hi-pot tested
Certified EMI Approvals: FCC, UL, CUL, CSA, CE (Minimum)

On Fri, 22 Apr 2005 21:25:26 +0000, Neil Barras wrote:

...........................repeted items sniped

 

[Derek Baker]

Yes, the P4's are quad data rate (QDR), so a 100MHz FSB gives it a 400Mbps
data rate per line (not MHz even though that's what they call it). All IO
goes over the FSB on the P4. The A64's FSB is double data rate (DDR), but
also has a seperate memory bus so memory data has it's own seperate bus
direct to the cpu core which makes access to it quite a bit faster. All
other IO still goes over the FSB to the chipset northbridge but no longer
has to compete with memory accesses which gives it faster access also.
With the memory gone, it's really not very critical speed wise any more,
but it is still a lot faster than previous FSB technology. It uses a
serial HT link which can be clocked as high as 1000MHz and uses DDR. For
info on the new HT technology read this.

http://www.hypertransport.org/consortium/cons_faqs.cfm


Depends on what you are doing. You can find benchmarks all over the place
to compare the speed.


Bartons are K7's, not K8 cores.

That PSU isn't big enough for the K8. I'm using a $20 600W on mine.

You're a comedian Wes. D

To the OP: try the 300w, if the line ratings are okay it'll work. If not for
good's sake buy something several times as expensive as $20.

 

[Wes Newell]

You were doing great right up to the point where you died.

So you think a 300W as he was going to buy is big enough? I don't think
so. And i'm very much alive as is the PSU I've been using over a year now
on it.

 

[Wes Newell]

You're a comedian Wes. D

Yep, and I laugh all the way to the bank.

To the OP: try the 300w, if the line ratings are okay it'll work. If not
for good's sake buy something several times as expensive as $20.

I don't think you'll find many (if any) 300W PSU's with anough current to
even boot a K8 system. AMD tech support recommended a minimum of 475W. My
400W that's been running my K7 system for years now would freeze the K8
system after about a minute and sometimes it wouldn't even post.. The
cheap 600W has been running it for over a year now 24/7.

 

[Derek Baker]

Yep, and I laugh all the way to the bank.


I don't think you'll find many (if any) 300W PSU's with anough current to
even boot a K8 system. AMD tech support recommended a minimum of 475W.
Link?

My 400W that's been running my K7 system for years now would freeze the K8
system after about a minute and sometimes it wouldn't even post.

With the PSUs you buy, I'm not surprised.

 

[Strings]

"Warning Results not Typical"
$20 600w 24/7 (laugh!)

 

[Neil Barras]

With the PSUs you buy, I'm not surprised.

OK guys...To settle all this down a bit, I'll show you the BareBones Bundle:

http://www.novatech.co.uk/novatech/specpage.html?BB-6430BUB

You'll probably come back advising against this, but I feel its great value
for my money...Considering I'm only 15! (Yep, that's right...I'm a 15 year
old Geek....And proud!)

I am thinking of coupling it with a Hitachi 80GB drive (Or would you say
40GB would be enough?), a DVD-Rom available for free from my Saturday Job
and the FX5500 from my other PC (Family system, hence I am going to buy my
own.).

Thanks,

Neil

 

[Derek Baker]

OK guys...To settle all this down a bit, I'll show you the BareBones
Bundle:

http://www.novatech.co.uk/novatech/specpage.html?BB-6430BUB

You'll probably come back advising against this, but I feel its great
value for my money...Considering I'm only 15! (Yep, that's right...I'm a
15 year old Geek....And proud!)

I am thinking of coupling it with a Hitachi 80GB drive (Or would you say
40GB would be enough?), a DVD-Rom available for free from my Saturday Job
and the FX5500 from my other PC (Family system, hence I am going to buy my
own.).

Thanks,

Neil

Here's a review of the board:
http://techreport.com/reviews/2004q2/foxconn-755a01/index.x?pg=11

I'd say get at least 80GB for the HD.

 

[Derek Baker]

Here's a review of the board:
http://techreport.com/reviews/2004q2/foxconn-755a01/index.x?pg=11

I'd say get at least 80GB for the HD.

As to your original question about the PSU, as it comes with the CPU it
should be okay assuming you don't load it up with too much stuff.

 

[Neil Barras]

Here's a review of the board:
http://techreport.com/reviews/2004q2/foxconn-755a01/index.x?pg=11

I'd say get at least 80GB for the HD.

Thanks for the Review...Very helpful. I realised from it that the Hard
Drive connection is SATA...Is SATA proven to be OK yet?

 

[Ed]

"Warning Results not Typical"
$20 600w 24/7 (laugh!)

system is probably idle 23 hours a day!

 

[Derek Baker]

Thanks for the Review...Very helpful. I realised from it that the Hard
Drive connection is SATA...Is SATA proven to be OK yet?

I don't have SATA yet, but millions are using it. The board has PATA as well
though.

 

[Yadayada]

Yep, and I laugh all the way to the bank.


I don't think you'll find many (if any) 300W PSU's with anough current to
even boot a K8 system.

My first A64 desktop was built using an older case with an older 250W power
supply in it. It ran flawlessly. The only reason I replaced was because I
needed to buy another one to put some old parts together for another
machine. It is a 300W and also runs flawlessly. As a side note, I have a
notebook running off a 90W power supply. That same power supply not only
powers the computer, but also the LCD. Granted, the parts are designed to
draw much less energy, but just used as another example. Bottom line, a K8
system will perform fine with a 300W power supply, if you don't have 6 HDs
and 4 optical drives working all the time . My video card isn't the
newest, power hungry model, but this is the setup I used a 250W and
currently a 300W PS with: 2HDs, 2 optical drives, a 3000+, and a Ti4600.
Probably the reason you were having trouble with your 400W is that it was
also a cheap 400W. I'll put a good 300/350 power supply up against a cheap
600W any day.

 

[Yadayada]

So you think a 300W as he was going to buy is big enough?

Without seeing the actual specs on the Power supply, it is hard to say. But
if it isn't an el cheapo 300W, it will most likely be fine. The overall
rating of a power supply (300W, 350W, 400W, etc) is a useless rating if it's
actual ability. The individual rail ratings are far more important.