Frontpage 2002 - SSH Tunneling or Secure FTP?

A

Anonymous User

Hi. I have Frontpage 2002. Because of changes with my ISP no longer
accepting insecure ftp connections. This means that FTP programs like
Dreamweaver 2003 and earlier, Go Live,Frontpage, Netscape Composer,
Fetch, WSFTP, Host Explorer FTP, and command line FTP programs CANNOT be
used. I have SSH Secure Shell Client and Secure FTP so I'm okay if I
want to connect to my file space directly to upload/download files, but
I CANNOT now directly connect to the file space online using Frontpage.

So, as I see it, I can "publish" files to my local drive and then upload
these using SSH SFTP in order to meet my ISP's requirement of having a
secure connection (basically that I'm not sending my username/password
in plain text which Frontpage now does). BUT, this does not help with
the real chore of maintaining a website which is SYNCHRONIZING the local
drive with the remote site so that I don't have to upload everything
everytime. So it's really an issue not of having an *extra step* but of
not having the easy ability to synchronize the two locations so as
only to upload those files that are new/changed.

QUESTION: In order to *continue* using Frontpage, can I set up
Frontpage to use SSH Tunneling? I have SSH Client and have set up the
software with a Tunnel. That's no problem. But HOW do I set up
Frontpage 2002 to publish "through" the tunnel? That's not clear. I do
understand that I need to set a host of 127.0.01 (localhost) but how do
I then set up the Host Directory (my remote site location)?

I have maintained many websites, but not having to worry about this kind
of detail. Usually it was only about the remote address and that was
it. Frontpage doesn't seem to have the detailed options I need. Any
ideas? I did find, for example, details for Dreamweaver at
http://w3.arizona.edu/~consult/dwmx.html but nothing anywhere for
Frontpage 2002 (saw something for 2003 but that seems to have a
different set of options).

Is there a plug-in for Frontpage that will do SFTP? That would work.

Thank you for your time.

Best,

Werdhi
 
T

Thomas A. Rowe

FP2002 is not configurable to do this.

Have you consider switching to a host that supports the FP extensions?

--
==============================================
Thomas A. Rowe (Microsoft MVP - FrontPage)
WEBMASTER Resources(tm)

FrontPage Resources, WebCircle, MS KB Quick Links, etc.
==============================================
 
A

Anonymous User

Thomas said:
FP2002 is not configurable to do this.

Have you consider switching to a host that supports the FP extensions?

Thank you Thomas. I had been coming to the conclusion that FP 2002 was
not configurable for SSH Tunneling. I had hoped it would be and, of
course, will still entertain suggestions for workarounds if there are any.

I will not be changing hosts because of what I perceive as FP's
shortcomings. More likely I'll be forced to switch to the current
Dreamweaver which supports SFTP. I would urge Microsoft to get on that
boat soon.

I don't fully understand "extensions" but have gotten a sense of their
unpopularity (?) perhaps due to the issue of compatibility. Seems
better to adopt something like SFTP which is universal than to create
something that doesn't translate well into a multitude of contexts ...
but my knowledege of this is limited.

Any other ideas folks?

TIA,

Werdhi
 
T

Thomas A. Rowe

The FP extensions allow you to open and work on your site directly from within the FP client
application on a remote server, this can not be accomplish with any FTP application.

The FP extensions are support on both Unix/Linux Apache servers and Windows IIS servers.

--
==============================================
Thomas A. Rowe (Microsoft MVP - FrontPage)
WEBMASTER Resources(tm)

FrontPage Resources, WebCircle, MS KB Quick Links, etc.
==============================================
 
S

Steve Easton

fwiw.

I run all of my sites on "extended" servers, and have *never* had a problem with
extensions.
( other than ones I induced myself )

--
Steve Easton
Microsoft MVP FrontPage
95isalive
This site is best viewed..................
...............................with a computer
 
A

Anonymous User

Thomas said:
The FP extensions allow you to open and work on your site directly from within the FP client
application on a remote server, this can not be accomplish with any FTP application.

The FP extensions are support on both Unix/Linux Apache servers and Windows IIS servers.

Okay, sounds good. In addition to having real time access to the remote
file space, is using FP extensions SECURE in the same respect that
Secure FTP encrypts the transfer so that username/password is not clear
text? My ISP has said that Frontpage cannot be used since it is not
secure, so I'm assuming *either* that FP extensions are NOT secure or
that they do not support these extensions (this is where it would be
great to have MS on board with SFTP).

Best,

Werdhi
 
T

Thomas A. Rowe

FP can publish via https.

You host has just chosen to not support the extensions.

--
==============================================
Thomas A. Rowe (Microsoft MVP - FrontPage)
WEBMASTER Resources(tm)

FrontPage Resources, WebCircle, MS KB Quick Links, etc.
==============================================
 
C

Crash Gordon

SIES?
Self Induced Extension Sydrome?

| fwiw.
|
| I run all of my sites on "extended" servers, and have *never* had a problem with
| extensions.
| ( other than ones I induced myself )
|
| --
| Steve Easton
| Microsoft MVP FrontPage
| 95isalive
| This site is best viewed..................
| ..............................with a computer
|
| | > Thomas A. Rowe wrote:
| >
| > > FP2002 is not configurable to do this.
| > >
| > > Have you consider switching to a host that supports the FP extensions?
| > >
| >
| > Thank you Thomas. I had been coming to the conclusion that FP 2002 was
| > not configurable for SSH Tunneling. I had hoped it would be and, of
| > course, will still entertain suggestions for workarounds if there are any.
| >
| > I will not be changing hosts because of what I perceive as FP's
| > shortcomings. More likely I'll be forced to switch to the current
| > Dreamweaver which supports SFTP. I would urge Microsoft to get on that
| > boat soon.
| >
| > I don't fully understand "extensions" but have gotten a sense of their
| > unpopularity (?) perhaps due to the issue of compatibility. Seems
| > better to adopt something like SFTP which is universal than to create
| > something that doesn't translate well into a multitude of contexts ....
| > but my knowledege of this is limited.
| >
| > Any other ideas folks?
| >
| > TIA,
| >
| > Werdhi
|
|
 
T

Tom Miller

the real chore of maintaining a website which is SYNCHRONIZING the local
drive with the remote site so that I don't have to upload everything
everytime.

So what you need is an secure Ftp client that does "syncing" or "mirroring"?
Seems like Bullet Ftp which is secure, as well as a number of other ftp
clients will perform "mirroring" type uploads/downloads.

The problem is you may have trouble with many FPSE-based components while
doing this. It appears that FPSE based components will only work with the
native FPSE publishing facilities. I have had repeated trouble or
non-functionality trying to use them with a secure ftp client.


Sincerely,
Tom Miller, A+, CNA5.1
 
A

Anonymous User

Tom said:
So what you need is an secure Ftp client that does "syncing" or "mirroring"?
Seems like Bullet Ftp which is secure, as well as a number of other ftp
clients will perform "mirroring" type uploads/downloads.
That's right ... if I cannot get Frontpage to either publish through the
tunnel I've created using SSH Secure Shell client or use sftp itself
with some kind of plug-in, then I'm going to have to do a "two step"
process, i.e., publish to my local drive and then upload files with a
separate secure FTP client such as SSH Secure Shell SFTP (which I have).
This does not sync or mirror. I'll look into Bullet FTP.

I'm just trying to avoid the nightmare (as I imagine it) if trying to
keep everything straight in a complex website with multiple folders and
files which gets updated frequently.
The problem is you may have trouble with many FPSE-based components while
doing this. It appears that FPSE based components will only work with the
native FPSE publishing facilities. I have had repeated trouble or
non-functionality trying to use them with a secure ftp client.

My ISP does not support MS FPSE so that is clearly not an option. I've
been publishing from within Frontpage with its internal FTP program up
to now and presumably "components" are not an issue (or not even
published/uploaded) as they have never become a problem. As I'd be
going the same method but only "publishing" locally on my PC as a first
step, I suppose that it would not be an issue with the FTP client. I
suppose all the _vti_* or _private folders and gibberish could be
deleted. I really don't know what all that is and if that has anything
to do with FPSE components.

Thank you for the thoughts ... I'll keep working on it and researching.
 
T

Thomas A. Rowe

The FP run-time components must be publish to a server that has the FP extension via FP's http mode
or they will not work.

--
==============================================
Thomas A. Rowe (Microsoft MVP - FrontPage)
WEBMASTER Resources(tm)

FrontPage Resources, WebCircle, MS KB Quick Links, etc.
==============================================
 
T

Thomas A. Rowe

When you upload via FTP, do not upload any of the _vti folder, however if you using themes, shared
borders, etc. be sure to upload those hidden folders.

Note: If you ever loose your local FP web and have used themes, shared borders or navigation
components, when you retrieve you site back from your host, you will need to re-apply the theme,
shared borders and re-build your navigation structure.

--
==============================================
Thomas A. Rowe (Microsoft MVP - FrontPage)
WEBMASTER Resources(tm)

FrontPage Resources, WebCircle, MS KB Quick Links, etc.
==============================================
 
A

Anonymous User

I should ADD that I've been looking at something called WebDrive:

http://www.webdrive.com/products/webdrive/index.html

This MIGHT solve the problem by allowing me to easily publish directly
to my remote site *as if* if was a directory on my hard drive.
Apparently WebDrive has built in Secure FTP and SSL support.

WOuld appear to be a potential solution ... and cheaper than ditching FP
altogether for Dreamweaver which has its own SFTP (something FP really
*should* have as well).

Just a thought ... any reason this wouldn't work?
 
T

Thomas A. Rowe

Looks interesting, but you still are not syncing, appears that you just have the ability to
drag-n-drop file directly on the server.

--
==============================================
Thomas A. Rowe (Microsoft MVP - FrontPage)
WEBMASTER Resources(tm)

FrontPage Resources, WebCircle, MS KB Quick Links, etc.
==============================================
 
A

Anonymous User

Thomas said:
Looks interesting, but you still are not syncing, appears that you just have the ability to
drag-n-drop file directly on the server.

Yes, that's true ... drag and drop would be an option. But it also (as
I understand it) would allow me to use FP "publish web" command to
publish to the server mapped as a drive/device on my PC. I would think
that in the same way I could publish to a directory on my hard drive
with FP (I just tested it out) and keep this "web" updated by simply
continuing to publish to the directory as I update/change files, I could
also publish to the locally mapped server.

It would seem to function as if I were using FTP (as far as uploading)
only it is secure (as WebDrive claim's, via SSH) and have the ability to
map the remote site as a local drive/directory.

So would not FP behave in the same manner as my present situation where
I FTP from within FP and do all the necessary syncing? As far as FP is
concerned, it would be as though I were publishing to my local drive,
no? If I get this figured out, I may be able to keep quite a few people
using Frontpage who will otherwise be going to Dreamweaver -- which is
suggested by the ISP.
 
T

Thomas A. Rowe

Ok, let use know how it works out for you.

However to get the most benefit out of using FP, you either need to publish to a server with the FP
extensions or a Windows 2003 server with WSS running.

--
==============================================
Thomas A. Rowe (Microsoft MVP - FrontPage)
WEBMASTER Resources(tm)

FrontPage Resources, WebCircle, MS KB Quick Links, etc.
==============================================
 
S

Stefan B Rusynko

If you stick w/ your current host I believe the latest version of Windows Commander (now Total commander) supports SSH thru a
plugging (and lets you compare files by folder for those needing update)
See http://www.ghisler.com/
and for the plug-in see
http://www.p42.net/total_commander/

--




| Thomas A. Rowe wrote:
|
| > The FP extensions allow you to open and work on your site directly from within the FP client
| > application on a remote server, this can not be accomplish with any FTP application.
| >
| > The FP extensions are support on both Unix/Linux Apache servers and Windows IIS servers.
| >
|
| Okay, sounds good. In addition to having real time access to the remote
| file space, is using FP extensions SECURE in the same respect that
| Secure FTP encrypts the transfer so that username/password is not clear
| text? My ISP has said that Frontpage cannot be used since it is not
| secure, so I'm assuming *either* that FP extensions are NOT secure or
| that they do not support these extensions (this is where it would be
| great to have MS on board with SFTP).
|
| Best,
|
| Werdhi
 
A

Arnold Gao[MSFT]

Hello,

Thanks for posting here!

Seems you query has been satisfied. :)

Have a nice day!

Sincerely,

Arnold Gao

Microsoft Partner Online Support


Get Secure! - www.microsoft.com/security

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