For balance: impressions after a week

[Bram]

I've been running Vista Home Premium for a week now (C2D T5500, 2Gb
ram, 160Gb HDD, Geforce Go7600) and I must say that I'm very happy
with it. Everything runs smoothly, if not smoother than my XP
configuration and all my software runs on it (except for ZoneAlarm,
which is forgivable considering its embeddedness in lowlevel system
functionality), even all my games, graphics and audiosoftware work
like before.

After reading all the doom and gloom on this newsgroup I was fearing
the worst when installing Vista, but no problems so far - I am
positively surprised.

Two gripes:
- settings are often buried too deep, and hidden in less-than-logical
dialogs
- UAC, switch off this annoying pest as fast as you can

Compared to XP: Vista is fresh. After working with Vista for some
time, going back to XP feels like going back into time. I'd say this
is not enough to warrant an upgrade, but if you're buying a new PC, I
don't see any reason not to spring for Vista to go with it.

 

[Adam Albright]

I've been running Vista Home Premium for a week now (C2D T5500, 2Gb
ram, 160Gb HDD, Geforce Go7600) and I must say that I'm very happy
with it. Everything runs smoothly, if not smoother than my XP
configuration and all my software runs on it (except for ZoneAlarm,
which is forgivable considering its embeddedness in lowlevel system
functionality), even all my games, graphics and audiosoftware work
like before.

After reading all the doom and gloom on this newsgroup I was fearing
the worst when installing Vista, but no problems so far - I am
positively surprised.

You overlook the obvious. OF COURSE groups like this focus on failures
and problems SOME people have. Why should anybody get excited if a
application actually works like it is suppose to?

I agree Vista is a step forward. I further agree UAC is poorly
implemented. However I also understand MANY people have issues with
Vista for a whole variety of reasons. THAT is why this newsgroup was
setup by Microsoft, ie to discuss such issues and others that may come
up. It was never intended to be a place for fan boys or Microsoft
partisans to constantly be cheerleaders. Heck, since most here are
male, I doubt many are interested in seeing grown men jump up and down
in short skirts shaking pom poms. Not me anyways. However Mike Hall in
drag may be cute looking. He'll have to share a photo with us.
<snicker>

 

[Bram]

After reading all the doom and gloom on this newsgroup I was fearing

You overlook the obvious. OF COURSE groups like this focus on failures
and problems SOME people have. Why should anybody get excited if a
application actually works like it is suppose to?

Hmmm.. I see your point. However, prior to buying Vista I read this
group for a while to see whether it would be a wise decision. Others
might do the same: I figured for people on the fence it would be good
to have some balance to all the trolling and extreme opinions 'round
here.

 

[watercress_soup]

I agree. I was slightly nervous about buying a new laptop with vista.

But now i have it. Everything is working fine and i really enjoy it.
Zonealarm and tweak ui don't work, but that's ok for now. (Windows firewall
is ok, I would, personally, prefer more prompts for programs wanting
internet access. Similar to zonealarm. It is fine for the average user but i
would like an advanced mode where it asks for permission)

All in all I find vista to be excellent. People should upgrade, although i
would say only if they are getting a new machine. And there is always help
available from multiple sources if things go slightly wrong.

And, i like UAC.

steve

 

[Guest]

Glad to here someone else is enjoying their Vista experience. However, I
trust we can help all those having trouble with Vista. I personally have had
great success with Vista, and even with a lot of software for XP that I have
installed on my Vista machines. I would suggest that after you install
software that was working fine in XP on a Vista machine that you do the
following:
Under 'Properties'->Compatibility tab you select the following:
Compatibility Mode->select 'Run this program in compatibility mode
for:'->Windows XP SP2
Under 'Priviledge Level' chech the box->Run as an administrator
Under Settings->check the box 'Disable visual themes' and 'Disable desktop
composition'

I have noticed that failing to check the above check box's results in a
failure to render in Direct X games.
Checking those two boxes disables some Vista features for the software you
want to run, and will or may
eliminate some of the issues you are having. Also do not forget to always
run your software as an administrator.
This cleared up all of the issues I had with FS2004. It now runs great on
both my Vista pc's.

G

 

[Tinman]

I agree. I was slightly nervous about buying a new laptop with vista.

But now i have it. Everything is working fine and i really enjoy it.
Zonealarm and tweak ui don't work, but that's ok for now.

I personally do not even like ZA 7 anymore. I used prior versions for years.
Now the thing wants to infect your email apps with redundant junk email
"protection" that I neither wanted, nor asked, to be installed. Worse, ZA's
FAQ tells me to uncheck "Junk Mail Filter" within ZA when that option is not
even present. The only thing shown under "E-mail Protection" is Basic
MailSafe--which is already off. This behavior seems to be what I have a
firewall to protect me *from*. Guess this is about the end of the free
version for me (won't be going with the paid version either).

I may not have purchased the non-free suite, but at least a dozen others--of
which I had previously installed the free version for--did. Guess that won't
be happening anymore either.

(Windows firewall is ok, I would, personally, prefer more prompts for
programs wanting internet access. Similar to zonealarm. It is fine for the
average user but i would like an advanced mode where it asks for
permission)

While that is nice--and available through other personal firewalls--I think
ZA is sometimes a PITA. Too often, after a minor update, it forgets" all
about apps I had already OK'd. There have also been too many incidents where
trying to get ZA to work with a specific app was too time-consuming, causing
me to just shutdown ZA totally.

Sorry about straying into a ZA rant...

 

[Ken Blake, MVP]

I've been running Vista Home Premium for a week now (C2D T5500, 2Gb
ram, 160Gb HDD, Geforce Go7600) and I must say that I'm very happy
with it. Everything runs smoothly, if not smoother than my XP
configuration and all my software runs on it (except for ZoneAlarm,
which is forgivable considering its embeddedness in lowlevel system
functionality), even all my games, graphics and audiosoftware work
like before.

After reading all the doom and gloom on this newsgroup I was fearing
the worst when installing Vista, but no problems so far - I am
positively surprised.

"Gloom and doom" is what you tend to find on support newsgroups, especially
when a new operating system (*any* new operating system) comes out. This is
where people come with their problems, not with their successes. You get a
very distorted view of what's going on in the real world here; as someone
once said, "hang around a transmission shop and you will think that all cars
have transmission problems."

Most problems, by far, that people report here--whether or not they are
SP2-related--have nothing to do with defects in the software. They result
from people's ignorance, from bad or inadequate hardware, from old drivers,
from viruses, from spyware, and so on. And except for very rare situations,
they always get a fix for their problems, and in most cases, that fix is a
very simple one to implement.

Two gripes:
- settings are often buried too deep, and hidden in less-than-logical
dialogs

Sometime true. But what seems illogical often feels more logical after you
get used to it.

- UAC, switch off this annoying pest as fast as you can

Bad move. Some applications will fail (without a hint of why they fail) if
you do that. For example, the installation of Adobe Reader 8 won't run.

Compared to XP: Vista is fresh. After working with Vista for some
time, going back to XP feels like going back into time. I'd say this
is not enough to warrant an upgrade, but if you're buying a new PC, I
don't see any reason not to spring for Vista to go with it.

That's my general advise for most people too.

 

[Thor]

You overlook the obvious. OF COURSE groups like this focus on failures
and problems SOME people have. Why should anybody get excited if a
application actually works like it is suppose to?

I agree Vista is a step forward. I further agree UAC is poorly
implemented. However I also understand MANY people have issues with
Vista for a whole variety of reasons. THAT is why this newsgroup was
setup by Microsoft, ie to discuss such issues and others that may come
up. It was never intended to be a place for fan boys or Microsoft
partisans to constantly be cheerleaders. Heck, since most here are
male, I doubt many are interested in seeing grown men jump up and down
in short skirts shaking pom poms. Not me anyways. However Mike Hall in
drag may be cute looking. He'll have to share a photo with us.
<snicker>

You really are a jackass!
<PLONK>

 

[Adam Albright]

You really are a jackass!
<PLONK>

He says after "plonking" me, ah the kiddies here are always so adult.

 

[Don]

Bram wrote:
[...]

After reading all the doom and gloom on this newsgroup I was fearing
the worst when installing Vista, but no problems so far - I am
positively surprised.

I'm happy to hear it. I'm pleased with it too.

Two gripes:
- settings are often buried too deep, and hidden in less-than-logical
dialogs

That's always been true. Only the hiding places have changed.

- UAC, switch off this annoying pest as fast as you can...

Oops, can't agree there. UAC is the one giant leap that MS made with
Vista, and I must rise to its defense. Everyone, please watch this
video interview of the two guys who created UAC -- it's important:

http://channel9.msdn.com/ShowPost.aspx?PostID=288259

 

[john]

After reading all the doom and gloom on this newsgroup I was fearing
the worst when installing Vista, but no problems so far - I am
positively surprised.

Two gripes:
- settings are often buried too deep, and hidden in less-than-logical
dialogs

All the changes, including widespread renaming of "default" folders and
apps, rearranging of menus with no rhyme or reason, and apparently for no
real purpose, confusing new graphic interface, are all necessary to make
Vista look sufficiently different from previous versions of Windows.

Otherwise, people would see it for what it really is, just another XP
Service Pack, and a shitty one at that.

--
=======================================
"Since when has the world of computer software design been about what
people want?."
- Bill Gates
=======================================

 

[Adam Albright]

Oops, can't agree there. UAC is the one giant leap that MS made with
Vista, and I must rise to its defense. Everyone, please watch this
video interview of the two guys who created UAC -- it's important:

http://channel9.msdn.com/ShowPost.aspx?PostID=288259

OK, I watched the WHOLE video. Some interesting quotes:

"Malware had a very, very easy install path onto machines" What is Jon
Schwartz the big banana behind UAC admitting? Oh, just that Windows XP
and prior versions had more security holes in it than a pound of swiss
cheese. Well admitting there's problems is a start.

"The user has no ability to stop it" Oh my God, more admissions,
Windows is a open invitation to hackers. Yep, we knew that to.

More admissions. "A full third of all complaints to Microsoft required
that the OS be reinstalled" due to how easily it could be hacked. "Its
awful, to hassle customers to do this" No kidding Jon.

Chris Corio, chief technical manager "prior to Vista, we really hadn't
tested Windows". "It comes out of the box set to run as
administrator." Did I actually here a Microsoft manager admit that?
Yep. Check it out yourself starting at the 5:29 time mark.

About UAC's reception at Microsoft headquarters in Redmond: Jon
Schwartz "Internally and externally there were people that were raving
and people that were loathing". Hardly sounds like a ringing endorment
to me. He goes on later to say even the man, you know, Bill has some
doubts. I bet Gates did.

"One thing about security, even our internal Microsoft developers
don't have a good understanding" so says Chris Corio. How revealing.
Microsoft has programmers writing Micrsoft applications that don't
understand security. Imagine that! Kock me over with a feather. Well
at least they now admit it.

"Doing file copying or moving through the shell can be painful" My
favorite quote and admission from the Jon Schwartz, the big banana
behind UAC. So what I've been saying here in this newsgroup with all
the security problems I had accessing some files and trying to move or
copy them due to brainless UAC nag screens IS VALID and Microsoft
confirms there are still problems with many applications, big ones,
and it proves once again the MVPs and other crybabies in this
newsgroup don't know what they're talking about when blaming it on the
user. I was right! I always am. Well almost. ;-)

 

[Don]

OK, I watched the WHOLE video. Some interesting quotes:

"Malware had a very, very easy install path onto machines" What is Jon
Schwartz the big banana behind UAC admitting? Oh, just that Windows XP
and prior versions had more security holes in it than a pound of swiss
cheese. Well admitting there's problems is a start...

Yes! A thousand times yes! That's why I'm so thrilled about Vista.
Those two young guys (who must be fairly new at MS) laid out the whole
of the problem and are working very hard (and very successfully) to
fix all those gaping security holes. This is good reason to praise
MS, not to condemn it (perhaps you aren't, but I can't tell ;o)

 

[Adam Albright]

Yes! A thousand times yes! That's why I'm so thrilled about Vista.
Those two young guys (who must be fairly new at MS) laid out the whole
of the problem and are working very hard (and very successfully) to
fix all those gaping security holes. This is good reason to praise
MS, not to condemn it (perhaps you aren't, but I can't tell ;o)

I'm doing neither. I'm simply saying as implemented UAC needs work.
Lots of work. Even the guys that wrote it, admit it is flawed and they
caught a lot of flack even in house from other Microsoft engineers,
even from Billy. What you take away from that movie if you sit through
and watch the whole 64 minutes is UAC works, they explain how on a
whiteboard, but at the same time they also explain how it DOESN'T
work, , how it can fail, please tell us when it does, etc..

They go to great lengths to explain what compromises they've made to
support legacy software including hard-wire patches within Vista
itself for over a 1,000 legacy applications so they don't spout a UAC
warning (now you know one reason why Vista is so big).

They admit when they tried it out first, just randomly testing it on
software they pulled off the shelf UAC FAILED 50% of the time. They
say now it works, about 78% of the time. They also admit when it don't
work as expected, and my big problem with Explorer moving/copying
files having/needing administrative level rights it will drive users
up a wall. We're sorry, not what we intended, is more or the less
where the movie ends. We'll fix it. Trust us.

Note I don't blame those guys. They played in straight. I blame the
butt kissers in this newsgroup that blindly sing the praises of UAC
and again prove they don't have a fu..ing clue what they're talking
about. Source: The two main guys that actually wrote the code for UAC.
Excuse me if I gloat. I told you some things cause false UAC prompts,
and now you have confirmation from the horse's mouth.

 

[Don]

I'm doing neither. I'm simply saying as implemented UAC needs work.
Lots of work. Even the guys that wrote it, admit it is flawed and they
caught a lot of flack even in house from other Microsoft engineers,
even from Billy. What you take away from that movie if you sit through
and watch the whole 64 minutes is UAC works, they explain how on a
whiteboard, but at the same time they also explain how it DOESN'T
work, , how it can fail, please tell us when it does, etc...

Yes, exactly! They are being honest about the glaring faults of the
earlier versions of Windows (including XP) and they are serious about
fixing them in Vista.

Honesty coming from MS? Aren't you blown away by that concept? I am,
and that's why I'm here trying my best to help people see the big
picture and stop focusing on bugs (which are still legion, yes).

This is the first (and only) campaign from MS to address the problems
which have kept me firmly in the open source camp for decades -- and
I want to see MS rewarded for their good-faith efforts, rather than
punished.

IMHO MS should be punished for their miserable marketing campaign
rather than for trying to improve their products for a change.

 

[Guest]

I have not had any trouble with UAC yet. Of course there will be security
holes, it seems to me XP have a thousand security vulnerabilites when it
came out, it was notorious for that. Vista is no different. I personally
like the UAC and find it a reasonable concept and implementation. As
anything else it of course needs work. Shame to see some getting nasty over
the subject. I am sure all of us will give our fellows the best assistance
we can.
G