Folder size

[kvin]

I just copied content of data CD into separate folder on my hard drive. CD
size was 585MB, it contained 10 folders.
When I checked folder size on my hard drive, it show folder size is1.05GB !
What is the problem?

kvin

 

[Gerry Cornell]

Zipped file?


--

Hope this helps.

Gerry
~~~~
FCA
Stourport, England
Enquire, plan and execute
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

 

[Bob I]

Or a "Fat32" drive and small files!

 

[mistral]

Or a "Fat32" drive and small files!

 

[Bob I]

Data CD doesn't need "install files"

 

[Wesley Vogel]

The CD uses a different file system than your hard drive does. Your hard
drive is probably formatted NTFS or FAT32.

On the hard drive, look at Size and Size on disk in whatever folder or file
Properties.

File Slack.

In data storage, the smallest amount of disk space that can be allocated to
hold a file is called a cluster. Most files are not the same size as the
cluster size on a hard disk. The difference between the actual file size
and the cluster size is called file slack. File slack is wasted space.
There will always be wasted space no matter what size the clusters are.
File size plus file slack equals Size on disk.

If your hard drive has 4KB cluster size and you have a file that is 1KB,
File Properties will show:

Size: 1.00KB (1,024 bytes)
Size on Disk: 4.00KB (4,096 bytes)

Size is the actual size of file's (or folder's) data.

Size on disk is the actual space that the file (or folder) takes up on the
hard drive.

What File Properties does not show is the file slack. From the example
above, the file slack would be 3KB (2,048 bytes) of wasted space.

KB (kilobyte) is a binary number, 2 to the tenth power, 2^10
or 1,024 bytes. So 1KB is 1,024 bytes, not 1000 bytes like we would
normally think of using decimal numbers

For best overall file system performance, a 4KB cluster size is best.

If the cluster size is too large, there is more file slack.

If the cluster size is too small, there will be more fragmentation.

The smaller the cluster size, the more efficiently a disk stores information
because unused space within a cluster cannot be used by other files.

You can find the cluster size, also called allocation unit, by looking at
the chkdsk log in the Event Viewer.

Open the Event Viewer...
Start | Run | Type: eventvwr | Click OK |
Look in Application | Listed as Information |
Event ID: 1001
Source: Winlogon

Similar to this:
4096 bytes in each allocation unit.

How to locate and correct disk space problems on NTFS volumes in Windows XP
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/315688

Disk Quota Charges Increase If You Turn On the NTFS Compression
Functionality
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/320686

Binary vs. Decimal Measurements
http://www.pcguide.com/intro/fun/bindec.htm

--
Hope this helps. Let us know.

Wes
MS-MVP Windows Shell/User

In

 

[Curt Christianson]

Thanks Wesley--great explanation and links!

--
Curt

http://dundats.mvps.org/
http://www.aumha.org/


| The CD uses a different file system than your hard drive does. Your hard
| drive is probably formatted NTFS or FAT32.
|
| On the hard drive, look at Size and Size on disk in whatever folder or
file
| Properties.
|
| File Slack.
|
| In data storage, the smallest amount of disk space that can be allocated
to
| hold a file is called a cluster. Most files are not the same size as the
| cluster size on a hard disk. The difference between the actual file size
| and the cluster size is called file slack. File slack is wasted space.
| There will always be wasted space no matter what size the clusters are.
| File size plus file slack equals Size on disk.
|
| If your hard drive has 4KB cluster size and you have a file that is 1KB,
| File Properties will show:
|
| Size: 1.00KB (1,024 bytes)
| Size on Disk: 4.00KB (4,096 bytes)
|
| Size is the actual size of file's (or folder's) data.
|
| Size on disk is the actual space that the file (or folder) takes up on the
| hard drive.
|
| What File Properties does not show is the file slack. From the example
| above, the file slack would be 3KB (2,048 bytes) of wasted space.
|
| KB (kilobyte) is a binary number, 2 to the tenth power, 2^10
| or 1,024 bytes. So 1KB is 1,024 bytes, not 1000 bytes like we would
| normally think of using decimal numbers
|
| For best overall file system performance, a 4KB cluster size is best.
|
| If the cluster size is too large, there is more file slack.
|
| If the cluster size is too small, there will be more fragmentation.
|
| The smaller the cluster size, the more efficiently a disk stores
information
| because unused space within a cluster cannot be used by other files.
|
| You can find the cluster size, also called allocation unit, by looking at
| the chkdsk log in the Event Viewer.
|
| Open the Event Viewer...
| Start | Run | Type: eventvwr | Click OK |
| Look in Application | Listed as Information |
| Event ID: 1001
| Source: Winlogon
|
| Similar to this:
| 4096 bytes in each allocation unit.
|
| How to locate and correct disk space problems on NTFS volumes in Windows
XP
| http://support.microsoft.com/kb/315688
|
| Disk Quota Charges Increase If You Turn On the NTFS Compression
| Functionality
| http://support.microsoft.com/kb/320686
|
| Binary vs. Decimal Measurements
| http://www.pcguide.com/intro/fun/bindec.htm
|
| --
| Hope this helps. Let us know.
|
| Wes
| MS-MVP Windows Shell/User
|
| In | kvin <[email protected]> hunted and pecked:
| > I just copied content of data CD into separate folder on my hard drive.
CD
| > size was 585MB, it contained 10 folders.
| > When I checked folder size on my hard drive, it show folder size
is1.05GB
| > ! What is the problem?
| >
| > kvin
|

 

[Gerry Cornell]

Wes

You say that the file system differs between a CD and a hard drive.
How does it in terms of file sizes? I cannot see any references to a
CD after your initial statement? What have I missed?

With regard to cluster sizes and hard drives a 4 kb cluster size may
normally be more efficient across the system but this will depend on
the overall number of small files compared to large files. If a drive
is partitioned this can make a 4 kb cluster size on a non-system
volume extremely inefficient! If a volume contains only photo images
an NTFS 4 kb format is not the best option!

--

Regards.

Gerry
~~~~
FCA
Stourport, England
Enquire, plan and execute
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

 

[Wesley Vogel]

Hi Gerry,

I didn't think that CDs had any file slack at all. They do, but it's less
of a problem than an NTFS formatted drive with 4KB clusters. A cluster (or
allocation unit) is the smallest amount of disk space that can be allocated
to hold a file.

After a little research I found that CD file systems do not have clusters,
they have sectors. Sectors are the smallest recordable unit on a CD. 2 KB
(2048 bytes) of data fit into a sector. Clusters and sectors seem to be
comparable.

I did a bunch of monkeying around copying two folders from a CD to my
Desktop and then moving those two folders to my FAT formatted removable
drive with 16 KB clusters, looking at the Size and Size on disk and
comparing everything. I got tired of messing around with it. ;-)

If your hard drive has 4 KB clusters, the same data (assuming larger sized
files, not a bunch of 47 byte files) will be smaller when copied to a CD.

--
Hope this helps. Let us know.

Wes
MS-MVP Windows Shell/User

In

 

[Wesley Vogel]

Hi Curt,

File slack was something that had me confused for a long time. I didn't
even know the term; file slack, let alone what it meant, so I did a little
research.

--
Hope this helps. Let us know.

Wes
MS-MVP Windows Shell/User

In

 

[Rock]

Hi Curt,

File slack was something that had me confused for a long time. I didn't
even know the term; file slack, let alone what it meant, so I did a
little
research.

That knowledge should be built in since you're a known slacker, no?

 

[Gerry Cornell]

Wes

For file slack to explain the difference of the magnitude described in
the original post the average file size would need to be below 4 kb or
the cluster size on the hard drive greater than 4 kb. It would be
unusual to be copying 10 folders occuping 1.05 gb which contain an
average file size below 4 kb, but an older computer where the
operating system has been upgraded from Windows 98 to Windows XP with
a FAT32 formatted disk is I suspect a much more common scenario.

The largest cluster size on a FAT32 volume is 32 kb. Thus for file
slack to have a significant impact the average file size would need to
be some way below 32 kb. If the average file size was below 16 kb you
could get the difference mentioned. You need to reduce average file
sizes if you are looking at a FAT32 volume with a smaller cluster
size.

On my system I have a dedicated data partition containing almost
exclusively Excel and Word files (vintage 2000). It contains 6,648
files with an average 56 kb file size (source Disk Defragmenter). If
my Word files were produced by a different word processor package e.g
Microsoft Works (same vintage) no doubt the files sizes would be
smaller. In my case I do have more Excel than Word files and some of
the Excel files are large (1 mb plus). Of course other files formats
will produce a different average and the way users use programmes will
directly affect file sizes.

It has to be said, however, that using averages produces indicative
results not precise outcomes. Statistically there that be mathmatical
alternatives to average which produce more precise predictions but I
am not a statistician.

File slack clearly has the potential for producing significant
variations. I do not have any idea of all the factors that might come
into play but crudely one can demonstrate an affect, Thus on a 4 kb
cluster size 200 4 kb files occupies 800 kb space and the same on a
CD. However, 400 2 kb files occupies 1,600 kb space and 800 kb space
on the CD. If the file size is more than 2 kb and no greater than 4 kb
200 files will occupy 800 kb on the hard drive and 800 kb on the CD
i.e no saving on file slack!

Of course if you compress a file on the hard disk you start to start
to change the rules of the ball game just as you do if you zip a file
from the hard drive and place it on the CD <G>.


--

Regards.

Gerry
~~~~
FCA
Stourport, England
Enquire, plan and execute
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

 

[kvin]

Or a "Fat32" drive and small files!

 

[Wesley Vogel]

I am a file slacker! ;-)

--
Hope this helps. Let us know.

Wes
MS-MVP Windows Shell/User

In

 

[Wesley Vogel]

Hi Gerry,

It has to be said, however, that using averages produces indicative
results not precise outcomes. Statistically there that be mathmatical
alternatives to average which produce more precise predictions but I
am not a statistician.

Yep and the OP probably left out some info in his posts, so we did not have
all of the facts.

--
Hope this helps. Let us know.

Wes
MS-MVP Windows Shell/User

In

 

[Gerry Cornell]

Kevin

Is your hard drive formatted as FAT32 or NTFS? What is the cluster
size? An easy way to check cluster size is to open Disk Defragmenter
and selecting Analyse and View Report. Cluster size appears near the
top of the Report.

What were the file extension of the files coped from the CD to the
hard drive and what programme was used originally to create those
files?

Have you otherwise determined an explanation for the differing disk
space occupied?


--

Hope this helps.

Gerry
~~~~
FCA
Stourport, England
Enquire, plan and execute
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

 

[kvin]

Kevin

Is your hard drive formatted as FAT32 or NTFS? What is the cluster
size? An easy way to check cluster size is to open Disk Defragmenter
and selecting Analyse and View Report. Cluster size appears near the
top of the Report.

What were the file extension of the files coped from the CD to the
hard drive and what programme was used originally to create those
files?

Have you otherwise determined an explanation for the differing disk
space occupied?


Hope this helps.

Gerry
~~~~
FCA
Stourport, England
Enquire, plan and execute
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

----------
I can only tell, that it was standard win XP installation, NTFS, nothing was
customized or changed.
There was a various installation files on CD, it seems, .cab, dat, etc. I
assume, CD was created on win XP.
I do not know, why the sizes differ so considerably, I just selected all
folders and files on CD (ctrl+A) and dragged them on a hard drive.
I wanted to make a copy of that CD to be able to burn it from hard drive.
Possibly, the better will be to create a copy as ISO image with Nero.

kvin

 

[Gerry Cornell]

Kevin

A cab is a compressed file (much like a zipped file). The contents
would be extracted by Windows XP and take up far more disk space on
your hard disk than on the CD. There's the answer to your original
question.

--

Hope this helps.

Gerry
~~~~
FCA
Stourport, England
Enquire, plan and execute
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

 

[Gerry Cornell]

Wes

A cab file on the CD!

Nevertheless I enjoyed our discussion of Disk Slack!

--

Regards.

Gerry
~~~~
FCA
Stourport, England
Enquire, plan and execute
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

 

[Wesley Vogel]

A cab file on the CD!

If expanded, would certainly be larger.

--
Hope this helps. Let us know.

Wes
MS-MVP Windows Shell/User

In