floppy drive trouble

[Mike Hollywood]

I'm have a computer and can't get the floppy drive to work.
It's a home brew running xp. AMD 750 MHz, 192 Ram,
10 Gig Hard drive, 24X CD Rom, Nic card, on board audio,
AGP video card. Everything's fine except for the 3.5" drive.

The bios sees the drive, and windows sees the drive, but
a disk in the drive can't be accessed by windows. It tells me
the disk isn't formatted so I tell it to format it and after some
spinning and wizzing it tells me the disk can't be formatted.

The disk isn't the problem because it can be read on my
computer. (Same with 3 different working disks)

I swapped out the cable with a new one so I know it's
not the cable.

I tired 3 other floppy drives in it, but the same thing happens.

So, I'm scratching my head here wondering what I'm missing.

Any help much appreciated.

Mike

 

[Mxsmanic]

So, I'm scratching my head here wondering what I'm missing.

It's connected specifically to the floppy disk controller on the
motherboard, right? And the disk and drive formats (sides, densities)
are compatible, right?

 

[Ken]

I'm have a computer and can't get the floppy drive to work.
It's a home brew running xp. AMD 750 MHz, 192 Ram,
10 Gig Hard drive, 24X CD Rom, Nic card, on board audio,
AGP video card. Everything's fine except for the 3.5" drive.

The bios sees the drive, and windows sees the drive, but
a disk in the drive can't be accessed by windows. It tells me
the disk isn't formatted so I tell it to format it and after some
spinning and wizzing it tells me the disk can't be formatted.

The disk isn't the problem because it can be read on my
computer. (Same with 3 different working disks)

I swapped out the cable with a new one so I know it's
not the cable.

I tired 3 other floppy drives in it, but the same thing happens.

So, I'm scratching my head here wondering what I'm missing.

Any help much appreciated.

Mike

Your problem sounds an awful lot like what others have had with XP and
the floppy disk drive. It seems that Windows XP does not like a floppy
that was formatted with a different operating system. Theoretically
you can reformat (full) the floppy disk and then it becomes acceptable
to XP. MS says it has to do with the data written in the boot sector or
FAT of the floppy disk. (This all assumes you have a working drive,
controller, cable and power applied.) You can of course establish this
is the case by booting to a floppy disk.

I too have encountered difficulty in XP reading a floppy that was read
perfectly with Win 98. This is true even on the SAME hardware when only
the HD was changed in order to get the different OS. What I have found
is that SOMETIMES you can read a floppy disk using the DOS prompt in XP
when it will not read under Windows Explorer. Try going to the prompt
and copying the file into a temp directory on the C: drive.

Ken

 

[Mike Hollywood]

yes to both.

It's connected specifically to the floppy disk controller on the
motherboard, right? And the disk and drive formats (sides, densities)
are compatible, right?

 

[Mike Hollywood]

Your problem sounds an awful lot like what others have had with XP and the

floppy disk drive. It seems that Windows XP does not like a floppy that
was formatted with a different operating system. Theoretically you can
reformat (full) the floppy disk and then it becomes acceptable to XP. MS
says it has to do with the data written in the boot sector or FAT of the
floppy disk. (This all assumes you have a working drive, controller,
cable and power applied.) You can of course establish this is the case by
booting to a floppy disk.

Hi Ken, Nope, it's not that. I can read all of them on my XP system
with no problems at all. I just tried it using a new disk, pre-formatted,
and the same thing happens. It says the disk needs to be formatted,
and then says it can't be. ??

I too have encountered difficulty in XP reading a floppy that was read
perfectly with Win 98. This is true even on the SAME hardware when only
the HD was changed in order to get the different OS. What I have found is
that SOMETIMES you can read a floppy disk using the DOS prompt in XP when
it will not read under Windows Explorer. Try going to the prompt and
copying the file into a temp directory on the C: drive.

Good idea, but the same thing happens.

So I ran the update driver thing in
hardware but it said the floppy controller's driver and the drive's
driver were the best ones available or something like that. This is
certainly
perplexing.

Looking closer at the system I found it was built on a compaq presario
motherboard. I went to compaq's web site to see about downloading
a bios flash, but it's all geared to model and number. All I could find out
so far, is that it was from a Presario but without the model number I can't
get to the download part of their site. oi-vey... << Mike

 

[Michael Hawes]

Hi Ken, Nope, it's not that. I can read all of them on my XP system
with no problems at all. I just tried it using a new disk, pre-formatted,
and the same thing happens. It says the disk needs to be formatted,
and then says it can't be. ??


Good idea, but the same thing happens.

So I ran the update driver thing in
hardware but it said the floppy controller's driver and the drive's
driver were the best ones available or something like that. This is
certainly
perplexing.

Looking closer at the system I found it was built on a compaq presario
motherboard. I went to compaq's web site to see about downloading
a bios flash, but it's all geared to model and number. All I could find out
so far, is that it was from a Presario but without the model number I can't
get to the download part of their site. oi-vey... << Mike

If floppy light on all the time, the cable is 180deg out. Unplug and
turn it over. Can you boot from a floppy? Could be faulty floppy controller
on motherboard.
Mike.

 

[Mxsmanic]

Looking closer at the system I found it was built on a compaq presario
motherboard.

Ah, in that case, all bets are off. Compaq is legendary and notorious
for having motherboards and (especially) BIOS weirdness that
constantly cause problems for anything not preinstalled directly at
the factory. It was always a good reason for avoiding Compaq systems.

 

[Mike Hollywood]

Ken

If floppy light on all the time, the cable is 180deg out. Unplug and
turn it over. Can you boot from a floppy? Could be faulty floppy
controller
on motherboard.
Mike.

the light is off, and comes on when you access the drive as it should.
The problem is it can't read the disk so I can't boot from a disk.

The mobo controller is what I suspected, too, which is why I
was trying to get a bios update.

 

[old jon]

the light is off, and comes on when you access the drive as it should.
The problem is it can't read the disk so I can't boot from a disk.

The mobo controller is what I suspected, too, which is why I
was trying to get a bios update.

Just a thought Mike. Are you using a 3 connector floppy cable ?. If so make
sure the drive is on the end (twisted ribbon) connector.
bw..OJ

 

[Mike Hollywood]

Ah, in that case, all bets are off. Compaq is legendary and notorious
for having motherboards and (especially) BIOS weirdness that
constantly cause problems for anything not preinstalled directly at
the factory.

ouch! I don't like hearing this.

It was always a good reason for avoiding Compaq systems.

I guess that isn't a problem if you stay in the fold so to speak, but
when you start using their mobos in homebrews, well, .... that's
where I am now. ha ha.

I have a USB floppy drive and it works fine. XP detected it,
installed, etc. But I think you have to have an operating system
installed to use a usb device. Is that correct? I'll post a
question about that now.

Thanks for your input

 

[Mxsmanic]

I guess that isn't a problem if you stay in the fold so to speak, but
when you start using their mobos in homebrews, well, .... that's
where I am now. ha ha.

Exactly. As long as everything is 100% Compaq, it all works, more or
less, including all their largely useless bells and whistles. But try
to put any kind of commodity hardware or software in the mix, and it
all breaks.

I recall that a great way to break a Compaq system was to simply wipe
the disk and reinstall a standard OS. They weren't built to run a
_standard_ OS, apparently. Of course, if you built something yourself
from off-the-shelf components, the same OS would install and run fine.

Servers and laptops were the worst.

I have a USB floppy drive and it works fine. XP detected it,
installed, etc. But I think you have to have an operating system
installed to use a usb device. Is that correct? I'll post a
question about that now.

You have to have software on the machine to do anything, either in the
BIOS or in the OS.

 

[David Maynard]

Mike Hollywood writes:




Exactly. As long as everything is 100% Compaq, it all works, more or
less, including all their largely useless bells and whistles. But try
to put any kind of commodity hardware or software in the mix, and it
all breaks.

oh pooh

I recall that a great way to break a Compaq system was to simply wipe
the disk and reinstall a standard OS. They weren't built to run a
_standard_ OS, apparently. Of course, if you built something yourself
from off-the-shelf components, the same OS would install and run fine.

They work just fine with a "_standard_ O.S."

You probably wiped out the BIOS/diagnostics partition and didn't know about it.

 

[Mxsmanic]

They work just fine with a "_standard_ O.S."

You probably wiped out the BIOS/diagnostics partition and didn't know about it.

We knew about that partition, but when you do a _standard_
installation, you remove it, because a BIOS or diagnostics partition
is not a standard installation.

But the OS itself seemed to have problems, as I recall. Over the
years, based on what I saw, I decided that Compaq was bad news, and I
never invested in one myself. Their servers were well built, provided
you were willing to put up with these idiosyncrasies, but it seems
that a lot of people weren't willing to put up with them. Compaq was
a PC company that tried to build servers, whereas most servers came
from minicomputer or mainframe companies with very different (and
better) ideas on how servers should be built. Compaq succumbed to the
"let's reinvent the wheel and show the world how it's done" syndrome
that seems to eventually infect a lot of successful PC companies.

 

[David Maynard]

David Maynard writes:




We knew about that partition, but when you do a _standard_
installation, you remove it,

No, you don't.

because a BIOS or diagnostics partition
is not a standard installation.

Neither is an EPROM BIOS but that doesn't mean you REMOVE the thing.

But the OS itself seemed to have problems, as I recall.

None of the ones I put on did.

Over the
years, based on what I saw, I decided that Compaq was bad news, and I
never invested in one myself. Their servers were well built, provided
you were willing to put up with these idiosyncrasies, but it seems
that a lot of people weren't willing to put up with them. Compaq was
a PC company that tried to build servers, whereas most servers came
from minicomputer or mainframe companies with very different (and
better) ideas on how servers should be built. Compaq succumbed to the
"let's reinvent the wheel and show the world how it's done" syndrome

You mean as opposed to the "let's make exactly the same thing everyone else
does so there's no technical reason to buy theirs, ours, or any of them?"

Or perhaps "sell it for the color?"

You'll noticed there aren't many of those folks left in business either.

Compaq's mistake was buying Digital Equipment Corp, one of those 'know how
to do it better' mini-computer manufacturers you mentioned.

that seems to eventually infect a lot of successful PC companies.

Maybe expecting every computer to be built and work exactly the same in all
ways as every other computer made isn't necessarily a good thing.

 

[Mxsmanic]

No, you don't.

My computers have standard installations, and they don't contain any
magic partitions. I wipe the disk clean before installing anything.

You mean as opposed to the "let's make exactly the same thing everyone else
does so there's no technical reason to buy theirs, ours, or any of them?"

Exactly. In many ways computers today are a commodity. You compete
successfully by treating them that way. You sell systems by making
them cheaper than others, or by providing better quality for the
money. But you don't generally gain points by customizing systems in
a way that makes them incompatible with all others. At first you
might have the impression that you are locking your customers in, but
they may end up abandoning you instead.

Or perhaps "sell it for the color?"
Yes.

You'll noticed there aren't many of those folks left in business either.

That's because most computers aren't sold based on color, but based on
price / value. If you sell a good mix of off-the-shelf components at
a reasonable price, you can make money. If your components are too
cheap, or if your prices are too high, you lose money.

Compaq's mistake was buying Digital Equipment Corp, one of those 'know how
to do it better' mini-computer manufacturers you mentioned.

Digital had already deteriorated greatly by that time. Much of the
reason for that was the attitude you describe.

Maybe expecting every computer to be built and work exactly the same in all
ways as every other computer made isn't necessarily a good thing.

Why not?

 

[David Maynard]

David Maynard writes:




My computers have standard installations, and they don't contain any
magic partitions. I wipe the disk clean before installing anything.

The Compaq partition doesn't make the 'installation' non standard any more
than a SATA controller vs an IDE makes it 'non standard'. Less, actually.

Exactly. In many ways computers today are a commodity.

If all you can imagine and make is a 'commodity' then it's a commodity but
there's no 'universal truth' to that.

You compete
successfully by treating them that way.

No, I don't. I compete by filling specific needs.

You sell systems by making
them cheaper than others, or by providing better quality for the
money. But you don't generally gain points by customizing systems in
a way that makes them incompatible with all others.

There's nothing about the Compaq partition that makes it 'incompatible'
with anything.

At first you
might have the impression that you are locking your customers in, but
they may end up abandoning you instead.

The purpose is to make a superior device, not 'lock' your customer.

Yes.

You'll never sell *me* one with that approach.

That's because most computers aren't sold based on color, but based on
price / value. If you sell a good mix of off-the-shelf components at
a reasonable price, you can make money. If your components are too
cheap, or if your prices are too high, you lose money.

And since, in your world, every one makes exactly the same thing then costs
and prices are essentially the same too and you end up trying to invent
'value' from things of no intrinsic value, like a raspberry case.

Digital had already deteriorated greatly by that time. Much of the
reason for that was the attitude you describe.

Digital's problem wasn't in abandoning the 'make indistinguishable clones
identical to the competition' philosophy you're espousing.

Why not?

It's called "stagnation."

 

[SMS]

I'm have a computer and can't get the floppy drive to work.
It's a home brew running xp. AMD 750 MHz, 192 Ram,
10 Gig Hard drive, 24X CD Rom, Nic card, on board audio,
AGP video card. Everything's fine except for the 3.5" drive.

The bios sees the drive, and windows sees the drive, but
a disk in the drive can't be accessed by windows. It tells me
the disk isn't formatted so I tell it to format it and after some
spinning and wizzing it tells me the disk can't be formatted.

The disk isn't the problem because it can be read on my
computer. (Same with 3 different working disks)

I swapped out the cable with a new one so I know it's
not the cable.

I tired 3 other floppy drives in it, but the same thing happens.

So, I'm scratching my head here wondering what I'm missing.

I'm sure that you've checked the CMOS set-up to be sure that the floppy
drive isn't set for 1.2MB, 720K, or 2.88MB.

Sounds like the SuperIO chip is hosed.