First spam felony conviction upheld: no free speech to spam

[jim]

It's not a public hanging.....but its a start.....

-------------------------------------------------------------

"Virginia's Supreme Court on Friday upheld the first US felony conviction
for spamming. The spammer will serve nine years in prison for sending what
authorities believe to be millions of messages over a two-month period in
2003.
Jeremy Jaynes is the man who will make history. A Raleigh, North Carolina,
resident who made Spamhaus' top 10 list of spammers, Jaynes was arrested in
2003 even before the CAN SPAM act was passed by Congress. Jaynes was
convicted in 2005, but his lawyers appealed the conviction. This past
Friday, the Virginia Supreme Court upheld that conviction, but the vote was
a narrow 4-3. ..."

 

[Holz]

It's not a public hanging.....but its a start.....

Definitely a good one.

 

[PaulMaudib]

It's not a public hanging.....but its a start.....

-------------------------------------------------------------

"Virginia's Supreme Court on Friday upheld the first US felony conviction
for spamming. The spammer will serve nine years in prison for sending what
authorities believe to be millions of messages over a two-month period in
2003.
Jeremy Jaynes is the man who will make history. A Raleigh, North Carolina,
resident who made Spamhaus' top 10 list of spammers, Jaynes was arrested in
2003 even before the CAN SPAM act was passed by Congress. Jaynes was
convicted in 2005, but his lawyers appealed the conviction. This past
Friday, the Virginia Supreme Court upheld that conviction, but the vote was
a narrow 4-3. ..."

-------------------------------------------------------------

Read the whole thing at http://tinyurl.com/2xsebg.

jim

I doubt this will stop hear. I"m sure his lawyers will petition this
all the way up to the Supreme Court, if it will hear it.

 

[Timothy Daniels]

I doubt this will stop hear. I"m sure his lawyers will petition this
all the way up to the Supreme Court, if it will hear it.

I am uneasy about this conviction. It *is* an infringement of
free speach rights. Why wasn't his ISP convicted, too? Certainly
the ISP was aware of the high volume of traffic coming from
this guy's account. I think it would be much more effective to
simply charge for email. One tenth of a cent for each outgoing
email would put the spammers out of business and it wouldn't
impact 99.99% of normal users.

*TimDaniels*

 

[Three Lefts]

I am uneasy about this conviction.
Awwww...

It *is* an infringement of free speech rights.

Baloney. Spam is a violation of my privacy. I say string 'em up. These
guys are flagrant violators. They are parasites.

Why wasn't his ISP convicted, too?

And let's prosecute GM for all drink driving fatalities in GM cars,
right?

Certainly
the ISP was aware of the high volume of traffic coming from
this guy's account. I think it would be much more effective to
simply charge for email. One tenth of a cent for each outgoing
email would put the spammers out of business and it wouldn't
impact 99.99% of normal users.

Maybe, maybe not. An even better solution is for the technical world
to solve it with software. But they won't do it because it would also
limit less flagrant spammers like Yahoo and Google. I bet the big
advertisers (ie, legit spammers) are glad to have these egregious
violaters out there so they don't look so bad.

 

[jim]

I am uneasy about this conviction. It *is* an infringement of
free speach rights.

You don't have the right to force your speech on me. You cannot come into
my home and toss flyers about or spray paint a message on my walls...and you
shouldn't be able to do it in my inbox either.

While we're at it, lets have a do not mail list to eliminate all of the
garbase sent to our snail mail boxes as well. We'd save trees, time and
aggravation.

Why wasn't his ISP convicted, too? Certainly
the ISP was aware of the high volume of traffic coming from
this guy's account.

Most ISPs do stop these kinds of abuses (or try to). There are still ways
around systems and, even though the article does not give specific
information on "how" he did it, I would assume that he used AOL member names
that he did not own to send the emails. (Remember that AOL has had member
names and passwords stolen on many occassions and most security breeches are
not made public.)

I think it would be much more effective to
simply charge for email. One tenth of a cent for each outgoing
email would put the spammers out of business and it wouldn't
impact 99.99% of normal users.

Sure it would impact us. We'd be paying to stop you from breaking the law.

I am a huge advocate of using white lists with free products like
Spamfighter to block all email from all email addresses not in your white
list.

Of course I am also an advocate of the public hangings of rapists,
murderers, child molesters and spammers.

jim

 

[Timothy Daniels]

While we're at it, lets have a do not mail list to eliminate all of the
garbase sent to our snail mail boxes as well. We'd save trees, time
and aggravation.

The junk flyers in my mailbox annoy me, too. BUT... I also
know that it's the junk flyers that keep down the cost of snail
mail delivery. You always gotta pay somewhere to get what
you want.

Most ISPs do stop these kinds of abuses (or try to)...

Many ISPs give lip service to eleiminating spammers,
but when it comes to really doing something, they get real
slow. It seems that they make money off all the traffic...
I'm not talking about your measely residential retail
accounts that are the targets of spam. I'm talking about
the commercial bulk accounts that spammers pay big money
for to trunkline their junk onto the backbone networks and
thence to their mailbots.

Sure it would impact us. We'd be paying to stop you from breaking the law.

Why do you now speak as if *I* am a spammer? I am
not a spammer, but I *am* more interested in adherence to the
constitution than to junk in my emailbox. If it costs me 5 cents
more per month for my outgoing email in order to keep spam
out of my emailbox, it's certainly a lot cheaper than hunting down,
prosecuting, and imprisoning spammers. It has probably cost
millions of dollars to convict the currently touted spammer, and
he's still not in prison, and his colleagues are still spamming. Was
it worth those millions of dollars? Like I said, you always gotta
pay somewhere to get what you want. If you pay for anti-virus
software, why not pay a tiny bit more to send email if it will cut
down the spam?

*TimDaniels*

 

[jim]

The junk flyers in my mailbox annoy me, too. BUT... I also
know that it's the junk flyers that keep down the cost of snail
mail delivery. You always gotta pay somewhere to get what
you want.


Many ISPs give lip service to eleiminating spammers,
but when it comes to really doing something, they get real
slow. It seems that they make money off all the traffic...
I'm not talking about your measely residential retail
accounts that are the targets of spam. I'm talking about
the commercial bulk accounts that spammers pay big money
for to trunkline their junk onto the backbone networks and
thence to their mailbots.

Most spammers now use the legions of bots put out by spammers to accomplish
thier goals. Its more effective, faster and a hell of a lot harder to catch
and prosecute the offenders. This guy was just stupid (or really greedy)
and got himself busted.

Why do you now speak as if *I* am a spammer? I am
not a spammer, but I *am* more interested in adherence to the
constitution than to junk in my emailbox.

What you really mean is that you are willing to pay a little if government
makes everyone else pay a little more too - which is so unconstitutional
that I don't even know where to begin in criticising this email tax you are
dreaming of.

If it costs me 5 cents
more per month for my outgoing email in order to keep spam
out of my emailbox, it's certainly a lot cheaper than hunting down,
prosecuting, and imprisoning spammers. It has probably cost
millions of dollars to convict the currently touted spammer, and
he's still not in prison, and his colleagues are still spamming. Was
it worth those millions of dollars? Like I said, you always gotta
pay somewhere to get what you want. If you pay for anti-virus
software, why not pay a tiny bit more to send email if it will cut
down the spam?

In your pious posting about your willingness to pay to stop spam, I noticed
that you completely ignored the free solution of a white list and
Spamfighter (which is free for home use). Why? Why is yet another tax the
solution?

You remind me of the millionaires (like Warren Buffet) that piously claim
that they don't pay enough taxes, yet, when invited to write a check to the
government to ease their burdened souls, they fall strangely silent (and
stingy).

There is an alternative to this ever-increasing email tax of which you
speak....publicly hang the offenders convicted of spamming. The more you
hang, the less spam you'll see - especially from repeat offenders.

People do what they can get away with (or feel that they can get away with).
If they really believe that they will be caught and hanged, they'll be less
likely to engage in this behavior.

At least in the hang-the-spammer model, after a brief spike, the costs
eventually go down. With your email tax (as with every other government
program in history) the costs only rise while the effectiveness wanes.

jim

 

[Timothy Daniels]

What you really mean is that you are willing to pay a little
if government makes everyone else pay a little more too -
which is so unconstitutional that I don't even know where
to begin in criticising this email tax you are dreaming of.

Never in this thread or others did I ever propose that
*government* impose a tax on sent email. You imagine
so much more than you actually read. Since the ISPs
spend to much money shipping spam around the country
and they spend so much money to pay services to filter it
out of their customer's email, and that spam bogs down their
mail servers, it would be very simple, cost effective and
appropriate for the ISPs to charge 0.01 cent per email that
they send for their customers. That would allow them to
keep down the direct cost of their service while eliminating
the incentive to spam.

In your pious posting about your willingness to pay to stop spam,
I noticed that you completely ignored the free solution of a white list
and Spamfighter (which is free for home use). Why? Why is yet
another tax the solution?

"Pious"? You imagine so much more than you actually read.
And if white lists were so easy to use and so effective, why hasn't
it stopped spam?

You remind me of the millionaires (like Warren Buffet)...

Correction: "Billionaires". But I'm flattered. Thank you.

There is an alternative to this ever-increasing email tax of which you
speak....

Again, you imagine so much more than you actually read.

publicly hang the offenders convicted of spamming.

Ummm. yes... Off the deep end, I see. Take care.

*TimDaniels*

 

[C.Joseph S. Drayton]

I have to start by saying that I hate spam as much as most people.

Unforutnately, the implications of this ruling are going to create a
lot of argument and discussion.

About 20 years ago, you could tell your mailperson that you did not
want any mail that did not have your name on it. Bulk mail advertizers
had a fit. Their position was that what the Post Office doing that was
'restraint of trade'. The USPS capitulated. Since then my mail box
always has unsolicited ads and flyers in it. Even my 'private mail box'
refuses to block mail addressed to 'resident' pieces of mail.

I hate spam, but where does my right to be left alone 'end' and where
does a retailers right to market their goods 'begin'.

Right now I would just like them to make the sending of unsolicited
'adult' material illegal since the spammer has no way of knowing
whether the e-mail address they are sending the unsolicited spam to
belongs to an adult.

--

Sincerely,
C.Joseph Drayton, Ph.D. AS&T

CSD Computer Services
Web site: http://csdcs.tlerma.com/
E-mail: (e-mail address removed)

 

[Three Lefts]

I have to start by saying that I hate spam as much as most people.

Unforutnately, the implications of this ruling are going to create a
lot of argument and discussion.

About 20 years ago, you could tell your mailperson that you did not
want any mail that did not have your name on it. Bulk mail advertizers
had a fit. Their position was that what the Post Office doing that was
'restraint of trade'. The USPS capitulated. Since then my mail box
always has unsolicited ads and flyers in it. Even my 'private mail box'
refuses to block mail addressed to 'resident' pieces of mail.

I hate spam, but where does my right to be left alone 'end' and where
does a retailers right to market their goods 'begin'.

In a society that is not run by commercial special interests, your
right to block unwanted mail, ermail, phone calls, doorbell rings,
etc., would be 100% up to you -- with the exception of police and fire
people and the like.

In this society, if you do not have money to donate to (ie, purchase)
a politician, you have no rights, so find something useful to do with
the junk mail.