Finally! The cable monopoly might fall (OT for a couple of newsgroups)

B

Big Mac

This is about high speed Internet via cable.

I asked a few weeks ago if there was anything I could do because I
have satellite TV, and when Internet cable became available, I jumped
in. I complained that Comcast Cable was charging me 25% more than if
I had cable TV. I thought this was completely unfair and gave an
unfair advantage to Comcast. People who want high speed Internet
access will stick with them even though they're TV service kind of
sucks when stacked up to what satellite dollar for dollar.

It is not as if high speed Internet is available to me.

Satellite Internet is kind of a joke - as I understand it, and this is
not to be taken as gospel as I could be wrong, it is only 5 times the
download speed of dial up. So 250Kbps. And even worse they want like
$600 down & the $60 a month access fee. Satellite should only be
considered if you have no cable or DSL available, and it isn't going
to get there soon either.

And DSL ADSL - regular home use), even if it were available to me, is
realistically like approx 8 times dial up speed, or 400 Kbps - I
think. Or faster, if you pay the extra for the faster service - and I
don't know what speeds the faster DSL service tops out at - if it is
even comparable to cable (I don't think so)

With cable, I am getting approximately 3000 Kbps download speed -
only about 250 Kbps upload speed however, but an acceptable tradeoff
to get the faster download speed.

So really, there is no comparing. Cable TV's lines are akin to what
phone lines went through - they were declared an unfair monopoly, and
the owners had to open them up to completion. So what if they
invested their $$ in the 1st place. Tough beans. Tough beans to
everyone - tough beans to Microsoft even though they spent their own
money and became the standard and have to open up their operating
system now.

Anyway - here is something I just spied in the tech news today. If
this does end up happening, Comcast cannot screw me anymore out of the
extra 25%, or $15 a month, because I am damn sure we'll see some
prices drop, at least a bit.
============---------------------=============
SAN FRANCISCO (AP) - A federal appeals court is standing by its
October ruling that cable TV operators should open their lines to
rivals who also want to use them to sell high-speed Internet service.

The Federal Communications Commission asked the 9th U.S. Circuit Court
of Appeals to revisit the decision, but the court declined to do so
late Wednesday. The commission is mulling an appeal to the Supreme
Court.

If upheld, the circuit's decision would likely subject cable operators
to the same rules as local phone companies, who are forced to lease
their lines to rival providers of phone service and DSL Internet
access.

The FCC voted in March 2002 to exempt cable companies from laws that
force phone companies to open their lines to competition.

At the time, officials said the move was necessary to spur more
investment in high-speed Internet services by cable companies, who
have spent billions of dollars upgrading their networks.

Phone companies have complained that the FCC ruling left them at a
disadvantage. They also have spent billions on network equipment to
deliver DSL service.

"I am disappointed that the court declined to address the merits of
the commission's policy that was carefully developed over the past
several years," Chairman Michael Powell said in a statement Thursday.

A Powell spokesman said the chairman was mulling whether to appeal to
the Supreme Court.

Another commissioner, however, applauded the San Francisco-based
court's decision to stand by its earlier ruling.

"This is a good day for consumers and Internet entrepreneurs,"
Commissioner Michael Copps said in a statement. "I look forward to the
start of a fresh dialogue on broadband service at the FCC."

The legal challenge to the FCC's decision was brought by Internet
service providers and consumer groups unhappy with the commission's
decision.

Andrew Jay Schwartzman, president of the Media Access Project that
represented consumer groups in the challenge, said the FCC should not
appeal to the high court and instead "implement cable open access as
fast as it can."

National Cable & Telecommunications Association chief counsel Dan
Brenner said the industry trade group would urge the commission to
appeal.

"We believe that if and when the 9th Circuit's decision is given a
full substantive review by the Supreme Court, it will be reversed," he
said in a statement.
=====------------- end
 
J

johnf

"With cable, I am getting approximately 3000 Kbps download speed "

"And DSL ADSL - regular home use), even if it were available to me, is
realistically like approx 8 times dial up speed, or 400 Kbps " ????

Methinks your figures are 'slightly' optimistic.
 
D

DCT Dictator

Cable's content or others' content, you are still going to pay for the
transport if this happens.

Just like the DSL, buy it from the pipeline provider (phone company)
it's $30. Buy from brand X over phone company's pipeline, it's $34.
 
P

peter

Having just switched from Cable to DSL I can definitely say that you must be
extremely lucky and maybe the only subscriber in a 10 block radius to get 3000
Kbps.
I live in Canada in a small town and my cable speed was 2000Kbps.....50% of the
time
The other times it was more in the range of 1000/1500Kbps sometimes less with
more and more people signing up for it.
Now with DSL I achieve constant speeds of about 2000Kbps....no worrying about
how many people are sharing the same node.
peter
 
R

Ron Martell

And DSL ADSL - regular home use), even if it were available to me, is
realistically like approx 8 times dial up speed, or 400 Kbps - I
think. Or faster, if you pay the extra for the faster service - and I
don't know what speeds the faster DSL service tops out at - if it is
even comparable to cable (I don't think so)

My ADSL account, which I have had for almost 3 years now, provides 1.5
mpbs download speed (and 500 kpbs upload). Large file downloads, on a
good connection with no intermediate delays, run at 167 or 168
kilobytes per second, which is about a third of the maximum speed that
I have observed for cable accounts in this area. Unfortunately for
cable users few of them are ever able to achieve that peak download
speed on a consistent basis.


Ron Martell Duncan B.C. Canada
--
Microsoft MVP
On-Line Help Computer Service
http://onlinehelp.bc.ca

"The reason computer chips are so small is computers don't eat much."
 
S

Scott Bremmer

Cable's content or others' content, you are still going to pay for the
transport if this happens.


Yeah, but not at the high rates all the big cable companies gauge you
at!
 
B

Big Mac

Cable's content or others' content, you are still going to pay for the
transport if this happens.

Just like the DSL, buy it from the pipeline provider (phone company)
it's $30. Buy from brand X over phone company's pipeline, it's $34.

Yea but I sure won't get charged the extra 25% for not having cable TV
service.

I would hope, and I think, that the alternate providers of the
Internet cable service would have to keep prices down to at least
where the cable TV company has access prices at for those people who
have their cable TV service and get the Internet service too.
Otherwise, for the majority of people, if it is going to cost you more
than just a couple of $$, why would they go with an alternate cable
Internet provider? It wouldn't be worth the price they'd be paying to
lease the cable line usage.

I would not be so anti-Comcast if they didn't stick it to me because I
have chosen to have satellite TV.

And Comcast sucks as far as Usenet access too - an alternate cable
Internet company would compete by offering free Usenet too, which
sucky Comcast only give you a joke at 1 gig a month. And through a
3rd party Usenet server - toooo cheap to even have their own Usenet
server.

Big Mac
 
B

Big Mac

peter said:
Having just switched from Cable to DSL I can definitely say that you must be
extremely lucky and maybe the only subscriber in a 10 block radius to get 3000
Kbps.
I live in Canada in a small town and my cable speed was 2000Kbps.....50% of the
time
The other times it was more in the range of 1000/1500Kbps sometimes less with
more and more people signing up for it.
Now with DSL I achieve constant speeds of about 2000Kbps....no worrying about
how many people are sharing the same node.
peter

Peter, I am in San Jose California. I have run the speed tests
several times at a couple of different testing sites. I get about
3000 Kbps. I do understand that the more people that use the lines at
one time then the less speed that I am going to get.

About the DSL speed you say you get - I was just reading on a site
that the maximum speed that can be archived with the best DSL package
is about 1.5 Mbps, Or I guess that is 1500 Kbps.. You are saying you
are getting 2000 Kbps with DSL. This speed exceeds by far what they
said was maximum. Are you sure you are getting that speed?

May I ask how much you pay for the DSL package you have? Anyone who
has the best DSL package offered - what do you pay? Or the cheapest?
What do you pay?

For comparison, here is what one provider offers in DSL:
IDSL -- ISDN Digital Subscriber Line -- up to 144Kbps*
SDSL -- Symmetric Digital Subscriber Line -- from 192Kbps* to 1.1Mbps
ADSL -- Asymmetric Digital Subscriber Line -- up to 1.54Mbps*

I am wondering then, if the basic starter package I see advertised by
SBC/Yahoo is SDSL then? That 1.1 Mbps looks awfully good at $29 a
month, but I will bet my hat that most people are not 10 feet away,
and get more like 350 Kbps.. Any more input on this?

Big Mac
 
P

peter

I guess I should not have said "constant speeds of about 2000"
Running DSL tests my line can run close to 1800.........but the avg would be
1600
I am fairly close to the local phone switches....about 5 blocks
When I had cable I paid 34.95 per month
Now with DSL I pay 24.95/month and its with my local pone company..all on one
bill
That includes 4 email address/webspace/free virus and spam checker and
firewall(downloaddable)
There are 2 resellers and they charge about the same..26.95 per month
There is a limit to up/down loads but I really dont remember what it is and I
have never gone over in the past 2 years on cable and dont expect to go over on
DSL.
peter
 
D

DCT Dictator

Big Mac said:
I am wondering then, if the basic starter package I see advertised by
SBC/Yahoo is SDSL then? That 1.1 Mbps looks awfully good at $29 a
month, but I will bet my hat that most people are not 10 feet away,
and get more like 350 Kbps.. Any more input on this?

Before the cable upgrade, SBC Yahoo ADSL was the only thing in town.
$29 per month - 680/120 was the best speed ever achieved. Full price
for half-speed DSL. Now that is a ripoff defined.

I get 3800/360 on my Comcast Home Networking connection.
 
D

Double U

Some time around Sat, 03 Apr 2004 09:38:55 -0800 (give or take a month), someone who says they are
named Big Mac said:
sucky Comcast only give you a joke at 1 gig a month. And through a
3rd party Usenet server - toooo cheap to even have their own Usenet
server.

And BellSouth (DSL) doesn't use their own Usenet servers. I don't understand, you say they are too
cheap, but maintaining servers cost money, you want them to charge you more to maintain their own
servers? So what if they use someone else's servers?

-W
 
T

techcom

I saw a thread not long ago that somebody had Time Warner Cable and they
were getting their Internet service for about $40.00 and their Expanded
Basic service for $4.95 a month.

I guess it was a deal when you take a Internet with them. Wished that I can
live in a Time Warner system and get that kind of service. Dumped Comcast
because of their high rates on their cable service and their Internet that
"sometimes" works.
 
R

Rich/rerat

techcom,
You should also complain to your local cable board, they set and accept the cable rates that the company proposed. I bet the $4.95 rate that T/W offers is not throughout their whole system, but in select areas. Because the local board would not allow it any higher.

--

Add MS to your News Reader: news://msnews.microsoft.com
Rich/rerat

(RRR News) <message rule>
<<Previous Text Snipped to Save Bandwidth When Appropriate>>


I saw a thread not long ago that somebody had Time Warner Cable and they
were getting their Internet service for about $40.00 and their Expanded
Basic service for $4.95 a month.

I guess it was a deal when you take a Internet with them. Wished that I can
live in a Time Warner system and get that kind of service. Dumped Comcast
because of their high rates on their cable service and their Internet that
"sometimes" works.
 
J

Jim Fraas

Comcast in NE only requires you get their"Basic" $10 or less in order to get
Internet at 42.95


--
A widescreen edition of a movie presents the film frame as it was seen in
the movie theater. This is the version that best preserves the filmmaker's
original intent.

End of story!
 
B

Big Mac

Double U said:
And BellSouth (DSL) doesn't use their own Usenet servers. I don't understand, you say they are too
cheap, but maintaining servers cost money, you want them to charge you more to maintain their own
servers? So what if they use someone else's servers?

Ok. My experience is limited. But I have to go with what I know - I
was with Earthlink (dial up, but they have broadband too), and they
had their own Usenet server. Now I have gone to Comcast cable because
they finally opened it up here in the middle of a near million
populated city (where it should have been easily over 5 years ago),
No Unsent server, and only 1 free gig a month through a 3rd party
server. Now throw in my friend about 80 miles from me in Modesto Ca
(70000 pop I think) has Charter.net, and they have their own Usenet
server and with unlimited downloads - and according to him he pays
less than $45 a month. (his d-load speed is sub-average though = 2000
Kbps, while 3000 Kbps would seem to be the norm).

So, based on what I know (and I admit that I don't know a lot of cable
companies and what they offer), 66% of servers that have broadband
capabilities have their own usenet server. OK, so that 66% won't
stack up I guess. But I've gotta feel that BellSouth is a cheap
company too. Are you able to subscribe to a different broadband ISP
without using BellSouth? Do they offer any free Usenet access at all?
I am curious - what is your monthly fee with them?

If the feds do say cable companies have to open up their lines for
leasing to alternate Internet providers, there will actually be
competition, and I am sure that you'll get more for your dollar spent.

I think how much I used to pay for long distance phone calls, which
now it is 5 cents a minute, fixed rate. Prices must have dropped
2000%. Part of that must be because of better & cheaper technology,
but I think the feds opening up of the lines to all would have to be
the main reason.

Big Mac
 
K

Ken Hall

I saw a thread not long ago that somebody had Time Warner Cable and they
were getting their Internet service for about $40.00 and their Expanded
Basic service for $4.95 a month.

I have Time Warner. It costs me $39 for basic plus expanded (they
don't break it out) and $45 for broadband (RoadRunner).

Ken
 
B

Big Mac

DCT Dictator said:
Yep. Uh huh.
A court ruling that could have forced cable companies to offer
customers a choice of Internet service providers has been suspended
while regulators and cable companies appeal to the U.S. Supreme Court.
http://news.com.com/2100-1028_3-5189485.html?tag=nefd.top

Of course the monopolistic cable companies were going to appeal. They
might actually have had to bring their gouging prices down to a decent
cost vs profit level. How much $$ did it cost them to get into the
Internet business after already having cables and digital equipment in
place? They don't want to give up the gravy boat!

At least it hasn't been decided against yet. Tough beans, Tough
beans to Microsoft, Pac Bell, and anyone else who becomes a monopoly
and charges stuck-with-them clients at their whim. Look what happened
to the cost of phone calls after the big-guys were no longer able to
call all of the shots. And Microsoft - they are making $$ hand over
fist and still have to open up, and are now paying off suers, but
they'll still make $$$$$$.
 
D

DCT Dictator

Big Mac said:
Of course the monopolistic cable companies were going to appeal. They
might actually have had to bring their gouging prices down to a decent
cost vs profit level. How much $$ did it cost them to get into the
Internet business after already having cables and digital equipment in
place? They don't want to give up the gravy boat!

Internet over the TV cable came first, and it was the only thing
'digital' on the coax. It cost big bucks to upgrade measly TV
delivery systems to the data driven structure there is today.

Once that was in place, what was needed was more services to sell to
recover that cost - Internet subs alone cannot pay the bills of
maintaining the system. Digital Cable, VOD, High Def, VOIP, they all
came after cable modems. Most all driven by competition - some
monopoly, huh?
 

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