FBI confiscated all his computer equipment!


A

Ablang

http://squeedlyspooch.com/blog/archives/000072.html

January 15, 2004
The whole surreal story
So at 6:30am on January 14th, I woke up to the doorbell buzzing. Not a
short lived buzz. Someone had their thumb pressing the button and holding
it there. "****ing drunkard" I thought, and rolled over, intent on ignoring
it. It then started a rythmic *buzz* *buzz* *buzz* *buzz*, over and over
again. After about 5 minutes battling to get back to sleep, I gave up and
got up. Put my pants on, grabbed my sweatshirt, and stumbled off toward the
door.

As I walked down the steps I heard them talking to the nextdoor neighbor,
asking him where the landlord lived. I reach the door just as the
neighbor's door closes. I compose myself to deal with whatever is behind
the door, and open it.

Immediately there's a flashlight in my eyes. "Are you Chris Toshok?" "Uh,
yes" "Mr. Toshok, we're with the FBI. We have a warrant to search the
premises." I looked down out of the glare of the flashlight and saw the FBI
badge of the long haired blonde woman standing in front of me. I also saw
two people behind her, bodies turned sideways so as to present less of a
target. Guns drawn? It was too hard to tell really with the glare of the
flashlight, but I'm assuming yes.

I mumbled something about turning on the light so I could see the warrant
(pages 1 2 3 4 5)they'd thrust into my hands and turned and groped on the
wall for the switch. They all tensed. The light came on, and I looked over
the warrant for a second.

"Please come out here Mr. Toshok," and a hand on my arm pulling me onto the
porch. Once I was out on the porch several agents started up the stairs. I
said that my roommate was still asleep in bed. They asked his name, I said
"Peter". They continued up the steps, yelling his name. "Peter, this is the
FBI." "PETER" "PETER, are you awake? this is the FBI"

I didn't watch it happen but apparently Peter awoke, naked, to a doorway
full of FBI agents with guns out, yelling at him to get up. He asked if he
could get some clothes on. They said yes. He asked if they could turn on
the light so he could see. So Peter got to get dressed under the watchful
gaze of government employees. Must have been fun.

They took Peter to the back of the house, and took me back upstairs to the
front of the house, and proceeded to start going through everything in my
room and the office.

I was questioned by the FBI agent in charge and a Secret Service agent at
length about the Hungry Programmers, people I used to live with, whether
particular people had the capacity/knowledge to do what they were
investigating, etc. During the questioning she says "Now we're going to
take all your computers." She sees the look on my face and says "Yeah, this
is going to be hard for you." I said "uh, when will I get them back?" She
said it depends, that they'd try to have them all back as soon as possible,
but it depends on if they find anything suspicious on them. If they found
contraband (kiddie porn, talk of drugs, or stuff they were actually looking
for), that particular computer would never be coming home.

After the questioning I basically sat in the front room on a folded futon
mattress, with at least one agent with me at all times. Sometimes two. At
one point I said I really needed to brush my teeth and the SS agent
assigned to me at the time walked with me back to the bathroom and stood
behind me watching me in the mirror as I brushed my teeth. On my way back
down the hall I looked into my room and saw 3 FBI agents rifling through my
belongings. One looking at the condoms and stickers in my nightstand, one
going through my underwear/sock drawer, and one looking through my books.

After a lot more sitting in silence in that room, interspersed with tidbits
of conversation (an fbi agent asking me about the guitars, talking about
the piano lessons in his youth, and how he was kicked in the chest by a
horse.) I must say, the SS agents were a lot nicer than the FBI agents. One
in particular was pretty cool - we joked a lot about just how absurd the
whole thing was.. He asked how I was doing, I said I'd had better mornings,
to which he responded "well you'll definitely have one unique experience
more than most people." I definitely have to agree. I know of very few
others that have been through something like this. The blonde FBI agent was
nice (and annoying) enough to tell me repeatedly that the judge would go
easier on me (and they could all go home earlier) if I would just tell them
where the stuff was. If I had it, of course. But if I denied having it,
they'd really throw the book at me *when* they found it.

After more waiting, the FBI agent in charge comes into the room and
explains that they aren't actually pressing charges against me, so I'm not
being detained. I can leave if I want, or walk around the house, etc. This
is a relief. I go grab my shoes and socks (my feet were *freezing* by this
time). After a few more minutes of listening to the bumbling idiots in the
next room arguing over how to turn off my machines, I decide a walk might
be nice. I say I'm leaving to go walk around, that I'll be back to look
over the list of equipment they're seizing. I ask if they'll let me take my
cell phone so they can call me if I need to be back, etc.. They said no. I
wasn't to take any property off the premises. Luckily, I still had my car
keys. I walked over to my car and drove off.

Drove around for a while, then decided I'd stop by Seth's house and tell
him what was going on. Davel answered the door, bleary-eyed. I apologized
for waking him up.. I said "I would have called, but the FBI wouldn't let
me use my cell phone." He said "what???".. I handed him the search warrant.
He said "ohhh, god, come in." and walked me up the stairs.

I broke the news to Seth and he looked as shocked as I felt when I opened
the door at 6:30. Got on ICB and spread the word that the wolves were
circling, and everyone pretty well freaked out.

I hung out with them for a while, then figured I'd better be getting back
so I got back in the car and returned home. It was probably around 10am at
this point. 3.5 hours into the raid. I got there as agents were walking
laps up and down the outside steps, carrying full boxes of my possessions
into their van. I was too late to go over the actual stuff they were
confiscating. suck. I walked upstairs, and found the long haired blonde
agent and the (admittedly very cute) asian evidence photographer still
there, finishing up. Taking photos of the rooms in their condition post-
raid, writing down which exposures corresponded to which room.

The blonde agent handed me the seizure receipt to look over and sign. It
looked ok to me, but I really had no idea at the time that some items
they'd taken weren't on the list.

We joked with the agents some before they left. Asked them for their
business cards, which they declined to give us, saying they would likely be
plastered all over the web. Wise women. We asked if we could get a picture
of them or their badges, which they also denied us. Too bad. Peter walked
them to the steps, and I walked into the office to assess the emptiness.

There were a few times in college when the computer labs would be closed
during the day, due to a bomb threat or a gas leak or whatever. When this
happened all the geeks would wander around outside, eyes squinting in the
unaccustomed glare of the mid-day sun, looking like zombies. You could
always spot a geek on such a day by the way they walked with a certain
slowness in their step. Not a leisure slowness, a dead slowness.

Today was like that for me. I'd lost upwards of 9 machines, and lots of
misc equipment besides. Machines that, according to most people familiar
with this stuff, I may as well write off as gone regardless of whether or
not they ever find anything on them. Thankfully there were many people
around that were willing and able to find the humor in such a preposterous
day. I've been running on laughter all day, unwilling to think about the
fact that this all might end with me in court, or even in jail. I mean, I
did nothing illegal, how can I end up in jail? Leila forced me to at least
acknowledge the gravity of what was going on, but thankfully didn't force
me to dwell on it. I'm hoping I can keep myself laughing about it all until
I pass out. The drinking might start rather early tomorrow.

I don't think the word "surreal" ever described a day better for me.
 
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White|Phatt

Ablang said:
http://squeedlyspooch.com/blog/archives/000072.html

January 15, 2004
The whole surreal story
So at 6:30am on January 14th, I woke up to the doorbell buzzing. Not a
short lived buzz. Someone had their thumb pressing the button and holding
it there. "****ing drunkard" I thought, and rolled over, intent on ignoring
it. It then started a rythmic *buzz* *buzz* *buzz* *buzz*, over and over
again. After about 5 minutes battling to get back to sleep, I gave up and
got up. Put my pants on, grabbed my sweatshirt, and stumbled off toward the
door.

As I walked down the steps I heard them talking to the nextdoor neighbor,
asking him where the landlord lived. I reach the door just as the
neighbor's door closes. I compose myself to deal with whatever is behind
the door, and open it.

Immediately there's a flashlight in my eyes. "Are you Chris Toshok?" "Uh,
yes" "Mr. Toshok, we're with the FBI. We have a warrant to search the
premises." I looked down out of the glare of the flashlight and saw the FBI
badge of the long haired blonde woman standing in front of me. I also saw
two people behind her, bodies turned sideways so as to present less of a
target. Guns drawn? It was too hard to tell really with the glare of the
flashlight, but I'm assuming yes.

I mumbled something about turning on the light so I could see the warrant
(pages 1 2 3 4 5)they'd thrust into my hands and turned and groped on the
wall for the switch. They all tensed. The light came on, and I looked over
the warrant for a second.

"Please come out here Mr. Toshok," and a hand on my arm pulling me onto the
porch. Once I was out on the porch several agents started up the stairs. I
said that my roommate was still asleep in bed. They asked his name, I said
"Peter". They continued up the steps, yelling his name. "Peter, this is the
FBI." "PETER" "PETER, are you awake? this is the FBI"

I didn't watch it happen but apparently Peter awoke, naked, to a doorway
full of FBI agents with guns out, yelling at him to get up. He asked if he
could get some clothes on. They said yes. He asked if they could turn on
the light so he could see. So Peter got to get dressed under the watchful
gaze of government employees. Must have been fun.

They took Peter to the back of the house, and took me back upstairs to the
front of the house, and proceeded to start going through everything in my
room and the office.

I was questioned by the FBI agent in charge and a Secret Service agent at
length about the Hungry Programmers, people I used to live with, whether
particular people had the capacity/knowledge to do what they were
investigating, etc. During the questioning she says "Now we're going to
take all your computers." She sees the look on my face and says "Yeah, this
is going to be hard for you." I said "uh, when will I get them back?" She
said it depends, that they'd try to have them all back as soon as possible,
but it depends on if they find anything suspicious on them. If they found
contraband (kiddie porn, talk of drugs, or stuff they were actually looking
for), that particular computer would never be coming home.

After the questioning I basically sat in the front room on a folded futon
mattress, with at least one agent with me at all times. Sometimes two. At
one point I said I really needed to brush my teeth and the SS agent
assigned to me at the time walked with me back to the bathroom and stood
behind me watching me in the mirror as I brushed my teeth. On my way back
down the hall I looked into my room and saw 3 FBI agents rifling through my
belongings. One looking at the condoms and stickers in my nightstand, one
going through my underwear/sock drawer, and one looking through my books.

After a lot more sitting in silence in that room, interspersed with tidbits
of conversation (an fbi agent asking me about the guitars, talking about
the piano lessons in his youth, and how he was kicked in the chest by a
horse.) I must say, the SS agents were a lot nicer than the FBI agents. One
in particular was pretty cool - we joked a lot about just how absurd the
whole thing was.. He asked how I was doing, I said I'd had better mornings,
to which he responded "well you'll definitely have one unique experience
more than most people." I definitely have to agree. I know of very few
others that have been through something like this. The blonde FBI agent was
nice (and annoying) enough to tell me repeatedly that the judge would go
easier on me (and they could all go home earlier) if I would just tell them
where the stuff was. If I had it, of course. But if I denied having it,
they'd really throw the book at me *when* they found it.

After more waiting, the FBI agent in charge comes into the room and
explains that they aren't actually pressing charges against me, so I'm not
being detained. I can leave if I want, or walk around the house, etc. This
is a relief. I go grab my shoes and socks (my feet were *freezing* by this
time). After a few more minutes of listening to the bumbling idiots in the
next room arguing over how to turn off my machines, I decide a walk might
be nice. I say I'm leaving to go walk around, that I'll be back to look
over the list of equipment they're seizing. I ask if they'll let me take my
cell phone so they can call me if I need to be back, etc.. They said no. I
wasn't to take any property off the premises. Luckily, I still had my car
keys. I walked over to my car and drove off.

Drove around for a while, then decided I'd stop by Seth's house and tell
him what was going on. Davel answered the door, bleary-eyed. I apologized
for waking him up.. I said "I would have called, but the FBI wouldn't let
me use my cell phone." He said "what???".. I handed him the search warrant.
He said "ohhh, god, come in." and walked me up the stairs.

I broke the news to Seth and he looked as shocked as I felt when I opened
the door at 6:30. Got on ICB and spread the word that the wolves were
circling, and everyone pretty well freaked out.

I hung out with them for a while, then figured I'd better be getting back
so I got back in the car and returned home. It was probably around 10am at
this point. 3.5 hours into the raid. I got there as agents were walking
laps up and down the outside steps, carrying full boxes of my possessions
into their van. I was too late to go over the actual stuff they were
confiscating. suck. I walked upstairs, and found the long haired blonde
agent and the (admittedly very cute) asian evidence photographer still
there, finishing up. Taking photos of the rooms in their condition post-
raid, writing down which exposures corresponded to which room.

The blonde agent handed me the seizure receipt to look over and sign. It
looked ok to me, but I really had no idea at the time that some items
they'd taken weren't on the list.

We joked with the agents some before they left. Asked them for their
business cards, which they declined to give us, saying they would likely be
plastered all over the web. Wise women. We asked if we could get a picture
of them or their badges, which they also denied us. Too bad. Peter walked
them to the steps, and I walked into the office to assess the emptiness.

There were a few times in college when the computer labs would be closed
during the day, due to a bomb threat or a gas leak or whatever. When this
happened all the geeks would wander around outside, eyes squinting in the
unaccustomed glare of the mid-day sun, looking like zombies. You could
always spot a geek on such a day by the way they walked with a certain
slowness in their step. Not a leisure slowness, a dead slowness.

Today was like that for me. I'd lost upwards of 9 machines, and lots of
misc equipment besides. Machines that, according to most people familiar
with this stuff, I may as well write off as gone regardless of whether or
not they ever find anything on them. Thankfully there were many people
around that were willing and able to find the humor in such a preposterous
day. I've been running on laughter all day, unwilling to think about the
fact that this all might end with me in court, or even in jail. I mean, I
did nothing illegal, how can I end up in jail? Leila forced me to at least
acknowledge the gravity of what was going on, but thankfully didn't force
me to dwell on it. I'm hoping I can keep myself laughing about it all until
I pass out. The drinking might start rather early tomorrow.

I don't think the word "surreal" ever described a day better for me.


--
"I know who I am, but I'm not the same every day. Sometimes I glam it up,
other times I'm more cute and casual. But for every style of me, I've got
the stuff to put together the look. Don't just live life, create it."
-- Stuff by Hilary Duff


....Yeah dude, There's no feeling like having the FBI come into your
workplace brandishing the local half-retarded fat sheriff, and a clipboard
with my current drivers license pic blown up, my address, and anything else
record-wise they could dig up..

They're ****ers dude.. ..btw.. That blond chick that said QUOTE: "The
blonde FBI agent was
nice (and annoying) enough to tell me repeatedly that the judge would go
easier on me (and they could all go home earlier) if I would just tell them
where the stuff was. If I had it, of course. But if I denied having it,
they'd really throw the book at me *when* they found it."

She was working you dude. Like they're going to let you off if you admit to
it (if there was something)? ...Why do you think they stuck you with a
blond chick? In all other cases they try to have a guy watch a guy and
woman watch a woman to keep the sexual harassment claims down.

It's called good ol'e social engineering. :)

....Chances are your probably right about them not giving most of your stuff
back. They'll spend upwards of $350,000 in data recovery to scan your HD's
with a fine-toothed comb bit-by-bit.

It doesn't sound like you have anything to worry about ..but just don't
admit to anything, They will ask the same question 5 different ways. Always
think before you answer, Keep your story straight, and **DO NOT** answer the
question (or any variation) 'Are you the primary user of this equipment', or
'do you normally lock your door when you leave', or 'do other people use
this equipment'. etc...

Any one of those questions will implicate you, and any variation there-of.

...Just keep your head, you'll be fine..

-White
 
W

White|Phatt

Sorry, I forgot to snip it earlier.

<...snip...>

....Yeah dude, There's no feeling like having the FBI come into your
workplace brandishing the local half-retarded fat sheriff, and a clipboard
with my current drivers license pic blown up, my address, and anything else
record-wise they could dig up..

They're ****ers dude.. ..btw.. That blond chick that said

QUOTE: "The blonde FBI agent was nice (and annoying) enough to tell me
repeatedly that the judge would go easier on me (and they could all go home
earlier)
if I would just tell them where the stuff was. If I had it, of course. But
if I denied
having it, they'd really throw the book at me *when* they found it."

She was working you dude. Like they're going to let you off if you admit to
it? (if there was something) ...Why do you think they stuck you with a
blond chick? In all other cases they try to have a guy watch a guy and
woman watch a woman to keep the sexual harassment claims down.

It's called good ol'e social engineering. :)

....Chances are your probably right about them not giving most of your stuff
back. They'll spend upwards of $350,000 in data recovery to scan your HD's
with a fine-toothed comb bit-by-bit.

It doesn't sound like you have anything to worry about ..but just don't
admit to anything, They will ask the same question 5 different ways. Always
think before you answer, Keep your story straight, and **DO NOT** answer the
question (or any variation) 'Are you the primary user of this equipment', or
'do you normally lock your door when you leave', or 'do other people use
this equipment'. etc...

Any one of those questions will implicate you, and any variation there-of.

...Just keep your head, you'll be fine..

-White
 
C

Colonel Flagg

Sorry, I forgot to snip it earlier.

<...snip...>

...Yeah dude, There's no feeling like having the FBI come into your
workplace brandishing the local half-retarded fat sheriff, and a clipboard
with my current drivers license pic blown up, my address, and anything else
record-wise they could dig up..

They're ****ers dude.. ..btw.. That blond chick that said

QUOTE: "The blonde FBI agent was nice (and annoying) enough to tell me
repeatedly that the judge would go easier on me (and they could all go home
earlier)
if I would just tell them where the stuff was. If I had it, of course. But
if I denied
having it, they'd really throw the book at me *when* they found it."

She was working you dude. Like they're going to let you off if you admit to
it? (if there was something) ...Why do you think they stuck you with a
blond chick? In all other cases they try to have a guy watch a guy and
woman watch a woman to keep the sexual harassment claims down.

It's called good ol'e social engineering. :)

...Chances are your probably right about them not giving most of your stuff
back. They'll spend upwards of $350,000 in data recovery to scan your HD's
with a fine-toothed comb bit-by-bit.

It doesn't sound like you have anything to worry about ..but just don't
admit to anything, They will ask the same question 5 different ways. Always
think before you answer, Keep your story straight, and **DO NOT** answer the
question (or any variation) 'Are you the primary user of this equipment', or
'do you normally lock your door when you leave', or 'do other people use
this equipment'. etc...

Any one of those questions will implicate you, and any variation there-of.

..Just keep your head, you'll be fine..

-White

do you realize you just replied to the person that wrote the blog, which
was a different person than the one that posted to usenet?




--
Colonel Flagg
http://www.internetwarzone.org/

Privacy at a click:
http://www.cotse.net

Q: How many Bill Gates does it take to change a lightbulb?
A: None, he just defines Darkness? as the new industry standard..."

"...I see stupid people."
 
R

RAMCable

...Yeah dude, There's no feeling like having the FBI come into your
workplace brandishing the local half-retarded fat sheriff, and a clipboard
with my current drivers license pic blown up, my address, and anything else
record-wise they could dig up..

They're ****ers dude.. ..btw.. That blond chick that said QUOTE: "The
blonde FBI agent was

She was working you dude. Like they're going to let you off if you admit to
it (if there was something)? ...Why do you think they stuck you with a
blond chick? In all other cases they try to have a guy watch a guy and
woman watch a woman to keep the sexual harassment claims down.

It's called good ol'e social engineering. :)

...Chances are your probably right about them not giving most of your stuff
back. They'll spend upwards of $350,000 in data recovery to scan your HD's
with a fine-toothed comb bit-by-bit.

It doesn't sound like you have anything to worry about ..but just don't
admit to anything, They will ask the same question 5 different ways. Always
think before you answer, Keep your story straight, and **DO NOT** answer the
question (or any variation) 'Are you the primary user of this equipment', or
'do you normally lock your door when you leave', or 'do other people use
this equipment'. etc...

Any one of those questions will implicate you, and any variation there-of.

..Just keep your head, you'll be fine..

-White

White... How can not answering those last question be of any help at all? I
mean if you don't answer them they will most likely see you as a criminal.
What does "locking your door when you leave" have to do with anything? I am
only asking here out of curiosity. One more thing before I go... White,
please snip the post.

RAMCable
 
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R

RAMCable

Forget my last line White... I saw the other post... Hmm.. This is also
posted on SOC.CULTURE.USA??

RAMCable
 
W

White|Phatt

White... How can not answering those last question be of any help at all? I
mean if you don't answer them they will most likely see you as a criminal.
What does "locking your door when you leave" have to do with anything? I am
only asking here out of curiosity. One more thing before I go... White,
please snip the post.

RAMCable

Well, See, Here's the thing... Like I said before, they will ask the same
question 5 different ways, working up to the information they're trying to
get. They will first and foremost try to get you to confess to you being the
only user of the equipment which is pretty damning in of itself.

If you lock your door when you leave, your sure to know that there isn't
anyone using your equipment when your not there, making you the sole user
(most of the time), and if you always lock your door someone would have to
break in to use it (since they're going to assume nobody but you has a key),
anyway... If someone broke in to use the equipment, wouldn't the police be
called to write a report on the break-in? ....It just gets worse from
there, so it's best not to answer in the first place.

Heck, there must be a million wordings to answer part of, or all of the
question "Are you the only person using the stuff".

...Know what I mean?

:)

-White
 
R

RAMCable

White|Phatt said:
all?

Well, See, Here's the thing... Like I said before, they will ask the same
question 5 different ways, working up to the information they're trying to
get. They will first and foremost try to get you to confess to you being the
only user of the equipment which is pretty damning in of itself.

If you lock your door when you leave, your sure to know that there isn't
anyone using your equipment when your not there, making you the sole user
(most of the time), and if you always lock your door someone would have to
break in to use it (since they're going to assume nobody but you has a key),
anyway... If someone broke in to use the equipment, wouldn't the police be
called to write a report on the break-in? ....It just gets worse from
there, so it's best not to answer in the first place.

Heck, there must be a million wordings to answer part of, or all of the
question "Are you the only person using the stuff".

..Know what I mean?

:)

-White

Ahhh! I see.. Hmm.. I also visited the link from another person which
details many things like when to get a lawyer or an attorney. The lawyer
sees to it that the FBI only take what they need and the attorney only tells
you what to say or not.

RAMCable
 
W

White|Phatt

Ahhh! I see.. Hmm.. I also visited the link from another person which
details many things like when to get a lawyer or an attorney. The lawyer
sees to it that the FBI only take what they need and the attorney only tells
you what to say or not.

RAMCable

yeah, those links are a good read. :)

-White
 
T

TheWanderer

Voyager said:
Read these four documents:

1. The Police Contact: Silence is Golden
2. Utilize your 5th Amendment Rights
3. If an Agent Knocks
4. ACLU pocket card on police encounters

EXCERPT:

"IF YOU ARE STOPPED FOR QUESTIONING:

1. It's not a crime to refuse to answer questions, but refusing to answer
can make the police suspicious about you. You can't be arrested merely for
refusing to identify yourself on the street"


Oh yeah? Look what happened to this old man:

http://www.wired.com/news/politics/0,1283,62764,00.html
Supremes Weigh In on ID Debate 05:04 PM Mar. 22, 2004 PT
WASHINGTON -- Do you have to tell the police your name? Depending on how the
Supreme Court rules, the answer could be the difference between arrest and
freedom.

The justices heard arguments Monday in a first-of-its kind case that asks
whether people can be punished for refusing to identify themselves.
 
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H

Hü©k Hö§hïmötö

**** the A.C.L.U. and their SNIVEL rights!
They are the "American" group that is DEFENDING the "rights" of prisoners in
Guantanimo Bay
AND captured terrorists! (The "rights" of foreigners who are killing
Americans?)

AND an example, if Abdul Jihad is walking down the street ANYWHERE acting
suspicious, you damn well BETTER (at least) ask his name!!!
Damn pansy Liberals!
 
T

TheWanderer

Hü©k Hö§hïmötö ! said:
**** the A.C.L.U. and their SNIVEL rights!
They are the "American" group that is DEFENDING the "rights" of prisoners in
Guantanimo Bay


Well some of those people were released After 2 years of being confined. It
was learned they did nothing more than be in the right place at wrong time.
You want to be sitting in small jail cell and have done nothing?
 
R

Rev Turd Fredericks

**** the A.C.L.U. and their SNIVEL rights!
They are the "American" group that is DEFENDING the "rights" of prisoners in
Guantanimo Bay
AND captured terrorists! (The "rights" of foreigners who are killing
Americans?)

AND an example, if Abdul Jihad is walking down the street ANYWHERE acting
suspicious, you damn well BETTER (at least) ask his name!!!
Damn pansy Liberals!

I'm afraid you couldn't be more wrong. If it wasn't for the ACLU the RIAA
would be walking all over us, we would likely be a "christian republic"
and you would surely be in jail for merely talking about software piracy
or viewing porn. I don't agree with all their causes and sometimes wonder
what makes them take up one case and not another, but we are lucky we have
them despite their flaws. As for Abdul Jihad, if the INS did their job we
wouldn't have to worry about him walking the streets.
 
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yetti

Ablang said:
http://squeedlyspooch.com/blog/archives/000072.html

January 15, 2004
The whole surreal story
So at 6:30am on January 14th, I woke up to the doorbell buzzing. Not a
short lived buzz. Someone had their thumb pressing the button and holding
it there. "****ing drunkard" I thought, and rolled over, intent on ignoring
it. It then started a rythmic *buzz* *buzz* *buzz* *buzz*, over and over
again. After about 5 minutes battling to get back to sleep, I gave up and
got up. Put my pants on, grabbed my sweatshirt, and stumbled off toward the
door.

As I walked down the steps I heard them talking to the nextdoor neighbor,
asking him where the landlord lived. I reach the door just as the
neighbor's door closes. I compose myself to deal with whatever is behind
the door, and open it.

Immediately there's a flashlight in my eyes. "Are you Chris Toshok?" "Uh,
yes" "Mr. Toshok, we're with the FBI. We have a warrant to search the
premises." I looked down out of the glare of the flashlight and saw the FBI
badge of the long haired blonde woman standing in front of me. I also saw
two people behind her, bodies turned sideways so as to present less of a
target. Guns drawn? It was too hard to tell really with the glare of the
flashlight, but I'm assuming yes.

I mumbled something about turning on the light so I could see the warrant
(pages 1 2 3 4 5)they'd thrust into my hands and turned and groped on the
wall for the switch. They all tensed. The light came on, and I looked over
the warrant for a second.

"Please come out here Mr. Toshok," and a hand on my arm pulling me onto the
porch. Once I was out on the porch several agents started up the stairs. I
said that my roommate was still asleep in bed. They asked his name, I said
"Peter". They continued up the steps, yelling his name. "Peter, this is the
FBI." "PETER" "PETER, are you awake? this is the FBI"

I didn't watch it happen but apparently Peter awoke, naked, to a doorway
full of FBI agents with guns out, yelling at him to get up. He asked if he
could get some clothes on. They said yes. He asked if they could turn on
the light so he could see. So Peter got to get dressed under the watchful
gaze of government employees. Must have been fun.

They took Peter to the back of the house, and took me back upstairs to the
front of the house, and proceeded to start going through everything in my
room and the office.

I was questioned by the FBI agent in charge and a Secret Service agent at
length about the Hungry Programmers, people I used to live with, whether
particular people had the capacity/knowledge to do what they were
investigating, etc. During the questioning she says "Now we're going to
take all your computers." She sees the look on my face and says "Yeah, this
is going to be hard for you." I said "uh, when will I get them back?" She
said it depends, that they'd try to have them all back as soon as possible,
but it depends on if they find anything suspicious on them. If they found
contraband (kiddie porn, talk of drugs, or stuff they were actually looking
for), that particular computer would never be coming home.

After the questioning I basically sat in the front room on a folded futon
mattress, with at least one agent with me at all times. Sometimes two. At
one point I said I really needed to brush my teeth and the SS agent
assigned to me at the time walked with me back to the bathroom and stood
behind me watching me in the mirror as I brushed my teeth. On my way back
down the hall I looked into my room and saw 3 FBI agents rifling through my
belongings. One looking at the condoms and stickers in my nightstand, one
going through my underwear/sock drawer, and one looking through my books.

After a lot more sitting in silence in that room, interspersed with tidbits
of conversation (an fbi agent asking me about the guitars, talking about
the piano lessons in his youth, and how he was kicked in the chest by a
horse.) I must say, the SS agents were a lot nicer than the FBI agents. One
in particular was pretty cool - we joked a lot about just how absurd the
whole thing was.. He asked how I was doing, I said I'd had better mornings,
to which he responded "well you'll definitely have one unique experience
more than most people." I definitely have to agree. I know of very few
others that have been through something like this. The blonde FBI agent was
nice (and annoying) enough to tell me repeatedly that the judge would go
easier on me (and they could all go home earlier) if I would just tell them
where the stuff was. If I had it, of course. But if I denied having it,
they'd really throw the book at me *when* they found it.

After more waiting, the FBI agent in charge comes into the room and
explains that they aren't actually pressing charges against me, so I'm not
being detained. I can leave if I want, or walk around the house, etc. This
is a relief. I go grab my shoes and socks (my feet were *freezing* by this
time). After a few more minutes of listening to the bumbling idiots in the
next room arguing over how to turn off my machines, I decide a walk might
be nice. I say I'm leaving to go walk around, that I'll be back to look
over the list of equipment they're seizing. I ask if they'll let me take my
cell phone so they can call me if I need to be back, etc.. They said no. I
wasn't to take any property off the premises. Luckily, I still had my car
keys. I walked over to my car and drove off.

Drove around for a while, then decided I'd stop by Seth's house and tell
him what was going on. Davel answered the door, bleary-eyed. I apologized
for waking him up.. I said "I would have called, but the FBI wouldn't let
me use my cell phone." He said "what???".. I handed him the search warrant.
He said "ohhh, god, come in." and walked me up the stairs.

I broke the news to Seth and he looked as shocked as I felt when I opened
the door at 6:30. Got on ICB and spread the word that the wolves were
circling, and everyone pretty well freaked out.

I hung out with them for a while, then figured I'd better be getting back
so I got back in the car and returned home. It was probably around 10am at
this point. 3.5 hours into the raid. I got there as agents were walking
laps up and down the outside steps, carrying full boxes of my possessions
into their van. I was too late to go over the actual stuff they were
confiscating. suck. I walked upstairs, and found the long haired blonde
agent and the (admittedly very cute) asian evidence photographer still
there, finishing up. Taking photos of the rooms in their condition post-
raid, writing down which exposures corresponded to which room.

The blonde agent handed me the seizure receipt to look over and sign. It
looked ok to me, but I really had no idea at the time that some items
they'd taken weren't on the list.

We joked with the agents some before they left. Asked them for their
business cards, which they declined to give us, saying they would likely be
plastered all over the web. Wise women. We asked if we could get a picture
of them or their badges, which they also denied us. Too bad. Peter walked
them to the steps, and I walked into the office to assess the emptiness.

There were a few times in college when the computer labs would be closed
during the day, due to a bomb threat or a gas leak or whatever. When this
happened all the geeks would wander around outside, eyes squinting in the
unaccustomed glare of the mid-day sun, looking like zombies. You could
always spot a geek on such a day by the way they walked with a certain
slowness in their step. Not a leisure slowness, a dead slowness.

Today was like that for me. I'd lost upwards of 9 machines, and lots of
misc equipment besides. Machines that, according to most people familiar
with this stuff, I may as well write off as gone regardless of whether or
not they ever find anything on them. Thankfully there were many people
around that were willing and able to find the humor in such a preposterous
day. I've been running on laughter all day, unwilling to think about the
fact that this all might end with me in court, or even in jail. I mean, I
did nothing illegal, how can I end up in jail? Leila forced me to at least
acknowledge the gravity of what was going on, but thankfully didn't force
me to dwell on it. I'm hoping I can keep myself laughing about it all until
I pass out. The drinking might start rather early tomorrow.

I don't think the word "surreal" ever described a day better for me.
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yetti

White|Phatt said:
...Yeah dude, There's no feeling like having the FBI come into your
workplace brandishing the local half-retarded fat sheriff, and a clipboard
with my current drivers license pic blown up, my address, and anything else
record-wise they could dig up..

They're ****ers dude.. ..btw.. That blond chick that said QUOTE: "The
blonde FBI agent was

She was working you dude. Like they're going to let you off if you admit to
it (if there was something)? ...Why do you think they stuck you with a
blond chick? In all other cases they try to have a guy watch a guy and
woman watch a woman to keep the sexual harassment claims down.

It's called good ol'e social engineering. :)

...Chances are your probably right about them not giving most of your stuff
back. They'll spend upwards of $350,000 in data recovery to scan your HD's
with a fine-toothed comb bit-by-bit.

It doesn't sound like you have anything to worry about ..but just don't
admit to anything, They will ask the same question 5 different ways. Always
think before you answer, Keep your story straight, and **DO NOT** answer the
question (or any variation) 'Are you the primary user of this equipment', or
'do you normally lock your door when you leave', or 'do other people use
this equipment'. etc...

Any one of those questions will implicate you, and any variation there-of.

..Just keep your head, you'll be fine..

-White

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yetti

Voyager said:
Read these four documents:

1. The Police Contact: Silence is Golden
2. Utilize your 5th Amendment Rights
3. If an Agent Knocks
4. ACLU pocket card on police encounters

URL: http://www.fortliberty.org/military-technology/police.shtml

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yetti

TheWanderer said:
EXCERPT:

"IF YOU ARE STOPPED FOR QUESTIONING:

1. It's not a crime to refuse to answer questions, but refusing to answer
can make the police suspicious about you. You can't be arrested merely for
refusing to identify yourself on the street"


Oh yeah? Look what happened to this old man:

http://www.wired.com/news/politics/0,1283,62764,00.html
Supremes Weigh In on ID Debate 05:04 PM Mar. 22, 2004 PT
WASHINGTON -- Do you have to tell the police your name? Depending on how the
Supreme Court rules, the answer could be the difference between arrest and
freedom.

The justices heard arguments Monday in a first-of-its kind case that asks
whether people can be punished for refusing to identify themselves.

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yetti

Hü©k Hö§hïmötö ! said:
**** the A.C.L.U. and their SNIVEL rights!
They are the "American" group that is DEFENDING the "rights" of prisoners in
Guantanimo Bay
AND captured terrorists! (The "rights" of foreigners who are killing
Americans?)

AND an example, if Abdul Jihad is walking down the street ANYWHERE acting
suspicious, you damn well BETTER (at least) ask his name!!!
Damn pansy Liberals!

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