FAT32 v.s NTFS

[Leonard]

It has been my philosophy to set up systems in FAT32
rather than NTFS. Main reasons:
1: Losing the boot files under NTFS is goodbye data while
under FAT you can boot to a floppy.
2: When encountering an 'undeletable' virus corrupted file
under NTFS one is basically out of luck. Under FAT32 I
have yet to find a file I cannot delete after booting to a
floppy.

An experienced friend tells me that, aside from the
scurity features, Windows 2000 or XP may not work properly
when set up in FAT32. So far I have never found a problem
and have 'been around' for 'a few' years (since the
8088's).

I will appreciate any and all feedback on this difference
of opinion.

Thanks,
Leonard

 

[Lanwench [MVP - Exchange]]

It has been my philosophy to set up systems in FAT32
rather than NTFS. Main reasons:
1: Losing the boot files under NTFS is goodbye data while
under FAT you can boot to a floppy.

Google NTFSDOS, and also look into booting into a recovery console.

2: When encountering an 'undeletable' virus corrupted file
under NTFS one is basically out of luck. Under FAT32 I
have yet to find a file I cannot delete after booting to a
floppy.

NTFSDOS or recovery console....

An experienced friend tells me that, aside from the
scurity features, Windows 2000 or XP may not work properly
when set up in FAT32. So far I have never found a problem
and have 'been around' for 'a few' years (since the
8088's).

It will work, sure. However, I don't do it, nor do I recommend it. I prefer
NTFS because it's more reliable, more self-healing, doesn't fragment as
badly, and has security built into it which FAT lacks entirely.

 

[R. C. White]

Hi, Leonard.

So far I have never found a problem
and have 'been around' for 'a few' years (since the
8088's).

Gotcha beat just a little. I started with the Z80 in the TRS-80. ;^}

1: Losing the boot files under NTFS is goodbye data while
under FAT you can boot to a floppy.

Why not make a floppy that will boot you into Win2K? (Actually, I've been
using WinXP since it became available and see no reason to go back to
Win2K.)

What you need on that floppy are the WinNT-style boot sector and the "system
files" (ntldr, ntdetect.com and boot.ini). These are what must normally be
in the Root of the System Partition (almost always C:\). The A:\boot.ini
must point to the "boot folder" in the "boot volume" of the HD. The boot
folder for WinNT4 and Win2K is \WinNT, by default (\Windows in other
versions of Windows), in any volume on any HD in your computer. Boot.ini is
a simple text file, but normally hidden, system and read-only; after
removing (or bypassing) those attributes, you can edit it with Notepad or
any other text editor. Make sure the line under [operating systems] points
to the right rdisk(#)partition(#)\WinNT, where the disk numbers start with
zero and the partition numbers start with 1 on each HD. For most users,
with Win2K installed in C:, it is rdisk(0)partition(1)\WinNT; if your Win2K
is installed in E:, for example, the second partition on your second HD,
then it would be rdisk(1)partition(2)\WinNT. Then make sure that this is
also the location shown as default= under [boot loader] at the top of
A:\boot.ini.

To make this boot floppy, put a blank diskette in Drive A:. In My Computer,
right-click on A: and choose Format. DON'T make it an MS-DOS boot floppy.
(That option is offered in WinXP, but not in Win2K, as I recall.) After it
is formatted, copy the 3 system files from C:\ to A:\, then edit A:\boot.ini
as required.

This boot floppy should work for either NTFS or FAT (16 or 32) HD volumes.

2: When encountering an 'undeletable' virus corrupted file
under NTFS one is basically out of luck. Under FAT32 I
have yet to find a file I cannot delete after booting to a
floppy.

I have yet to find a file I can't delete from the "DOS" window, no matter
which file system was used to format the volume where it is. But, then,
with one minor exception 8 years ago (when I was still using FAT32), I've
never had a virus. (Not bragging - it can happen to me, I know - but very
happy!)

My recommendation: NTFS all the way.

Except...I also had my share of HD disasters over the past couple of
decades, so I do retain some degree of paranoia. My Drive C: is FAT16.
That practice started when I was running Win95 and FAT16, so it had nothing
to do with NTFS originally. When I got this "monster" 9.1 GB HD, I had to
divide it into at least 5 volumes because FAT16 couldn't handle more than 2
GB in each volume. So, I created an extended partition with four 2 GB
logical drives after a single 715 MB primary partition at the front of the
HD. (That 9.1 GB actually equaled 8,715 MB when we translated from
marketing numbers to computer numbers.)

Skipping the intervening transitions, I still have that 715 MB Drive C:
formatted FAT16. As I added two more HDs, I've also created minimal (8 MB)
primary partitions at the front of each, formatted them FAT16, and installed
the NT and MS-DOS System Files there. Now I'm comfy knowing that, no matter
what happens, I can always boot to WinXP from any of those 3 HDs, or I can
boot to MS-DOS on any of them to attempt other recovery tricks. On that 715
MB partition, I still have older DOS versions of Norton and a few other
gut-level utilities. Luckily, I've not really needed them in years!

All my other volumes are logical drives, formatted as NTFS. (Well,
actually, I let the Longhorn pre-alpha version create and format the latest
volume, so it uses the new WinFS, but WinXP sees it as NTFS.) Volume sizes
range from 8 GB to 60 GB.

There are times when I wish for the simplicity of FAT (12 and 16, not 32).
I've rebuilt FATs and Directories and MBRs a byte at a time after lightning
storms or other power glitches, using Norton's DiskEdit and other tools like
SuperZap. But I haven't studied NTFS to even be able to read the MFT, and
don't have to tools to read it. I've relied on R-Studio to recover from my
last couple of disasters.

An experienced friend tells me that, aside from the
scurity features, Windows 2000 or XP may not work properly
when set up in FAT32.

Baloney! Win2K/XP mix and match FAT32/NTFS natively. Because Microsoft
wants us all to transition to NTFS, they made Win2K and WinXP unable to
FORMAT volumes larger than 32 GB as FAT32, but Win9x/ME can format volumes
at least as large as 127 GB as FAT32 and Win2K/XP can then use all of those
volumes. Unless you plan to put Win9x/ME on this computer, it's time to
leave MS-DOS and FAT in the past (except for that universally-compatible
small Drive C:, just for paranoia's sake).

For many details about such subjects, check out the online versions of the
Win2K and WinXP Resource Kits:
http://www.microsoft.com/windows200...rl=/windows2000/techinfo/reskit/en-us/Pro.asp

And especially this chapter:
File Systems Overview
http://www.microsoft.com/resources/...Windows/XP/all/reskit/en-us/prkc_fil_buvl.asp

The links don't always go to the exact page I have in mind, but you can find
lots of good stuff all around these pages.

Also, be sure to read the Help file for Disk Management. Lots of good stuff
there, too! And I'm amazed that, 4 years since it first appeared in Win2K,
many experienced users still haven't found it.

Didn't mean this post to be so long, Leonard, but I couldn't resist throwing
in a few reminiscences. ;^}

RC

 

[Michael Cecil]

I've never come across one of those.

Of course not. NTFS is just a well-documented filesystem. It's not some
mystical hoodoo. Even the lowliest, most inexperienced tech would be able
to handle such simple things.

 

[kitekrazy]

2: When encountering an 'undeletable' virus corrupted file

under NTFS one is basically out of luck.<

I've never come across one of those.

 

[Al Dykes]

It has been my philosophy to set up systems in FAT32
rather than NTFS. Main reasons:
1: Losing the boot files under NTFS is goodbye data while
under FAT you can boot to a floppy.

No it's not. Yoiu just bood from a CD. What's the diff ?

2: When encountering an 'undeletable' virus corrupted file
under NTFS one is basically out of luck. Under FAT32 I
have yet to find a file I cannot delete after booting to a
floppy.

you can delete it in safe mode, No ?


If you are getting viruses, the solution is to install AV
and PFW software and not get viruses.

An experienced friend tells me that, aside from the
scurity features, Windows 2000 or XP may not work properly
when set up in FAT32. So far I have never found a problem
and have 'been around' for 'a few' years (since the
8088's).

Your friend should be more specific. FAT32 can't
save a file bigger than 4GB (right ?) file which
may affect you if you do backups to disk, or editr video.

FAT32 gets seriously inefficient on file systems larger than 30GB .

I will appreciate any and all feedback on this difference
of opinion.

see www.ntfs.com

 

[Gary G. Little]

With more and more systems being sold without floppies, making boot floppies
is rapidly becoming archaic, and a "if God intended for us to walk on the
moon ...". FAT, 16 or 32, is severely limited in growth; note that 2000 and
above will not allow you to create a single 80 gig partition on an 80 gig
HDD.

Also realize that file sizes are extremely bloated in any FAT system. Above
1 gig your minimum cluster size is well over 32K. A cluster is the MINIMUM
amount of data that the file system will transfer to and from the disc,
regardless of how big the file is. Multi gig HDDs rapidly give you cluster
sizes of 1 meg. That's fine if you are dealing with a database of audio or
video, but if you're dealing with smaller bits of data such as a customer
database, you can easily end up with data-throughput times well into the
milliseconds because your waiting on a 40 byte record that is contained in a
2 meg cluster.

NTFS provides cluster sizes closer to what the HDD is actually using ...
typically 512 bytes. I've seen from 30% to a 50% increase in free space
simply by formatting for NTFS. Throughput increased even more remarkably.

 

[R. C. White]

Hi, Gary??

Who are you? Surely this is a spoof! Nobody actually from Seagate
Technologies would spew such erroneous nonsense! You must be somebody
spoofing Gary's name! ;>(

For authoritative information on Win2K and WinXP file systems, see this page
from the online version of the WinXP Pro Resource Kit:

Size Limitations in NTFS and FAT File Systems
http://www.microsoft.com/resources/...Windows/XP/all/reskit/en-us/prkc_fil_tdrn.asp

Note that the limitations are based on the FILE system, not the operating
system, so there are little or no differences between Win2K and WinXP in
this regard.

FAT, 16 or 32, is severely limited in growth; note that 2000 and
above will not allow you to create a single 80 gig partition on an 80 gig
HDD.

You can CREATE as large a partition as you like. Win2K/XP will not FORMAT a

32 GB volume as FAT32, but a larger partition can be formatted by another

operating system (such as Win98, which will format at least 127 GB as FAT32)
and Win2K/XP will happily use the whole thing.

Above
1 gig your minimum cluster size is well over 32K.

No, it's 4 KB; see this table in the RK, just before the page cited above
(Sorry about OE's reformatting; see the web page for proper columns.):

Table 13.4 Default Cluster Sizes for Volumes with Windows XP Professional
File Systems

Volume Size FAT16 Cluster Size FAT32 Cluster Size NTFS Cluster Size
7 MB–16 MB 2 KB Not supported 512 bytes
17 MB–32 MB 512 bytes Not supported 512 bytes
33 MB–64 MB 1 KB 512 bytes 512 bytes
65 MB–128 MB 2 KB 1 KB 512
bytes
129 MB–256 MB 4 KB 2 KB 512 bytes
257 MB–512 MB 8 KB 4 KB 512 bytes
513 MB–1,024 MB 16 KB 4 KB 1 KB
1,025 MB–2 GB 32 KB 4 KB 2 KB
2 GB–4 GB 64 KB 4 KB 4
KB
4 GB–8 GB Not supported 4 KB 4 KB
8 GB–16 GB Not supported 8 KB 4 KB
16 GB–32 GB Not supported 16 KB 4 KB
32 GB–2 terabytes Not supported Not supported(1) 4 KB

1 Windows XP Professional formats FAT32 volumes up to 32 GB regardless of
cluster size. To format volumes larger than 32 GB, you must use NTFS.
However, Windows XP Professional can mount FAT32 volumes larger than 32 GB
that were created by other operating systems.

Multi gig HDDs rapidly give you cluster
sizes of 1 meg.

Ridiculous! See the table above.

NTFS provides cluster sizes closer to what the HDD is actually using ...
typically 512 bytes.

Only for HDDs smaller than .5 GB. For all volumes larger than 2 GB, the
default cluster size in NTFS is 4 KB. See the table above.

RC