Ethernet network won't work without third (wireless) computer.


S

Stan Hilliard

I have three PCs on a home network. OSs are XP-Pro-SP2 connected by
Ethernet to Win98SE, and by wireless, XP-Home-SP3 on a Laptop.

Question -- Why can't the two Ethernet-connected PCs see each other
unless the laptop is also on with the wireless connection established?

Here is the hardware configuration:
Comcast cable to Motorola SB5120 Surfboard cable modem.
Ethernet: Modem to Win98 PC.
Ethernet: Win98PC to Netgear WNR2000 wireless router.
Ethernet: Netgear WNR2000 to XP-Pro-SP2.
Wireless: Netgear WNR2000 to Netgear Adapter WN511B on XP-Home laptop.

Using windows explorer, the two Ethernet-connected PCs cannot see each
other unless the laptop is on and connected by wireless. Then all
three computers see each other in explorer. When I break the wireless
connection to the laptop the Ethernet connected PCs again cannot see
each other.

Why is the laptop necessary for the Ethernet network to work? How can
I change this situation?

Stan Hilliard
 
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D

Donald

Is your Windows 98 acting like a firewall? What is the IP address of the
router and each of your computer then?
 
R

Randem

That is a bad network configuration. Why are you going from the modem to the
Win98 PC instead of directly to the Netgear WNR2000 router? That
configuration would allow all three computers to see each other especially
if they all were part of the same workgroup. But they still would be able to
see each other thru IP addresses.

--
Randem Systems
Your Installation Specialist
The Top Inno Setup Script Generator
http://www.randem.com/innoscript.html
Disk Read Error Press Ctl+Alt+Del to Restart
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D

Donald

According to the manual, that router is supposed to be connected to the cable modem. You can make sure all your computers are with the IP address in the same subnet so they will be able to see each other no matter how many are online. For the detailed settings, maybe Netgear is a good resource for support.

 
D

Donald

Yeah I agree with the post of randem.

à·´
According to the manual, that router is supposed to be connected to the cable modem. You can make sure all your computers are with the IP address in the same subnet so they will be able to see each other no matter how many are online. For the detailed settings, maybe Netgear is a good resource for support.

 
R

Randem

Open a command prompt (Run->cmd) then type in

ipconfig /all

do this on each computer to find out the ip addresses then once you find out
all ip addresses you can type in each window on eac computer

Ping <IPaddress>

Where <IPaddress> is the actual ip address of one of the other computers. If
you can see them via IP address there will be a reply from that computer
other wise there will be a timeout.

BTW: All the ip addresses should be similar...

After you get this far report back and we will take further steps.

--
Randem Systems
Your Installation Specialist
The Top Inno Setup Script Generator
http://www.randem.com/innoscript.html
Disk Read Error Press Ctl+Alt+Del to Restart
http://www.randem.com/discus/messages/9402/9406.html?1236319938
 
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S

Stan Hilliard

==== OOPs, my mistake. The configuration is/was really: ====
Comcast cable to Motorola SB5120 Surfboard cable modem.
Ethernet: Cable Modem to Netgear WNR2000 wireless router.
Ethernet: Netgear WNR2000 wireless router to Win98PC.
Ethernet: Netgear WNR2000 wireless router to XP-Pro-SP2.
Wireless: Netgear WNR2000 wireless router to Netgear Adapter WN511B
on XP-Home laptop.

All three computers have the same workgroup. How can I determine the
three IP addresses?
Stan
 
S

Stan Hilliard

Thanks Randem, it's after midnight here so I must give it up until
tomorrow evening.

Stan Hilliard
 
S

Steve Winograd [MS-MVP]

I have three PCs on a home network. OSs are XP-Pro-SP2 connected by
Ethernet to Win98SE, and by wireless, XP-Home-SP3 on a Laptop.

Question -- Why can't the two Ethernet-connected PCs see each other
unless the laptop is also on with the wireless connection established?

Here is the hardware configuration:
Comcast cable to Motorola SB5120 Surfboard cable modem.
Ethernet: Modem to Win98 PC.
Ethernet: Win98PC to Netgear WNR2000 wireless router.
Ethernet: Netgear WNR2000 to XP-Pro-SP2.
Wireless: Netgear WNR2000 to Netgear Adapter WN511B on XP-Home laptop.

Using windows explorer, the two Ethernet-connected PCs cannot see each
other unless the laptop is on and connected by wireless. Then all
three computers see each other in explorer. When I break the wireless
connection to the laptop the Ethernet connected PCs again cannot see
each other.

Why is the laptop necessary for the Ethernet network to work? How can
I change this situation?

Stan Hilliard

Network browsing in Network Neighborhood and My Network Places depends
on having one computer, designated as the "master browser", keep track
of the computers and respond to browsing requests from other
computers. If that computer leaves the network, the other computers
are supposed to notice and elect another computer as the "master
browser".

This process is inherently unreliable. You can spend a lot of time
troubleshooting it, but I don't think it's worth the trouble.

Here are two ways to access another computer without using network
browsing:

1. Click Start > Run, type the other computer's name in "Open" box in
this format, and click OK:

\\computer

2. Create a desktop shortcut to the other computer, specifying the
location of the item as:

\\computer
--
Best Wishes,
Steve Winograd, MS-MVP (Windows Desktop Experience)

Microsoft Most Valuable Professional Program
http://mvp.support.microsoft.com
 
S

Stan Hilliard

1) The pings work with the following addresses. However I there seems
to be several choices so I pasted the three ipconfig outputs below. I
suspect I have some configuration issues. Do they look reasonable?

2) Are these the right IP addresses?
Win98SE TOWER IP Address: 192.168.1.1
XP-Pro HOMEBUILT IP Address: 192.168.1.5
XP-Home BARBS-LAPTOP IP Address: 192.168.1.7

3) Host Names: Why are the ipconfig host names not the same as the
computer names in network neighborhood, as shown under the workgroup
name=servicco? On win98SE the computer name is tower.

=================================================
==== TOWER Win98SE =============================
Windows 98 IP Configuration
Host Name . . . . . . . . . : Stan Hilliard
DNS Servers . . . . . . . . : 192.168.1.1
Node Type . . . . . . . . . : Broadcast
NetBIOS Scope ID. . . . . . :
IP Routing Enabled. . . . . : No
WINS Proxy Enabled. . . . . : No
NetBIOS Resolution Uses DNS : No
0 Ethernet adapter :
Description . . . . . . . . : PPP Adapter.
Physical Address. . . . . . : 44-45-53-54-00-00
DHCP Enabled. . . . . . . . : Yes
IP Address. . . . . . . . . : 0.0.0.0
Subnet Mask . . . . . . . . : 0.0.0.0
Default Gateway . . . . . . :
DHCP Server . . . . . . . . : 255.255.255.255
Primary WINS Server . . . . :
Secondary WINS Server . . . :
Lease Obtained. . . . . . . :
Lease Expires . . . . . . . :
1 Ethernet adapter :
Description . . . . . . . . : Linksys LNE100TX(v5) Fast
Ethernet Adapter NDIS5 Driver
Physical Address. . . . . . : 00-04-5A-80-A4-2F
DHCP Enabled. . . . . . . . : Yes
IP Address. . . . . . . . . : 192.168.1.3
Subnet Mask . . . . . . . . : 255.255.255.0
Default Gateway . . . . . . : 192.168.1.1
DHCP Server . . . . . . . . : 192.168.1.1
Primary WINS Server . . . . :
Secondary WINS Server . . . :
Lease Obtained. . . . . . . : 06 07 09 8:54:43 PM
Lease Expires . . . . . . . : 06 08 09 8:54:43 PM

=================================================
==== homebuilt XP-Pro SP2 ==========================
Windows IP Configuration
Host Name . . . . . . . . . . . . : homebuilt
Primary Dns Suffix . . . . . . . :
Node Type . . . . . . . . . . . . : Unknown
IP Routing Enabled. . . . . . . . : Yes
WINS Proxy Enabled. . . . . . . . : Yes
Ethernet adapter Local Area Connection:
Connection-specific DNS Suffix . :
Description . . . . . . . . . . . : IC Plus IP100 10/100 Fast
Ethernet Adapter
Physical Address. . . . . . . . . : 00-50-8D-82-87-D7
Dhcp Enabled. . . . . . . . . . . : Yes
Autoconfiguration Enabled . . . . : Yes
IP Address. . . . . . . . . . . . : 192.168.1.5
Subnet Mask . . . . . . . . . . . : 255.255.255.0
Default Gateway . . . . . . . . . : 192.168.1.1
DHCP Server . . . . . . . . . . . : 192.168.1.1
DNS Servers . . . . . . . . . . . : 192.168.1.1
Lease Obtained. . . . . . . . . . : Sunday, June 07, 2009
7:01:48 PM
Lease Expires . . . . . . . . . . : Monday, June 08, 2009
7:01:48 PM

===============================================
==== BARBS-LAPTOP XP-hOME SP3 ================
Windows IP Configuration
Host Name . . . . . . . . . . . . : BARBS-LAPTOP
Primary Dns Suffix . . . . . . . :
Node Type . . . . . . . . . . . . : Hybrid
IP Routing Enabled. . . . . . . . : No
WINS Proxy Enabled. . . . . . . . : No
Ethernet adapter Local Area Connection 2:
Connection-specific DNS Suffix . :
Description . . . . . . . . . . . : Microsoft Loopback Adapter
Physical Address. . . . . . . . . : 02-00-4C-4F-4F-50
Dhcp Enabled. . . . . . . . . . . : Yes
Autoconfiguration Enabled . . . . : Yes
Autoconfiguration IP Address. . . : 169.254.25.129
Subnet Mask . . . . . . . . . . . : 255.255.0.0
Default Gateway . . . . . . . . . :
Ethernet adapter Wireless Network Connection 5:
Connection-specific DNS Suffix . :
Description . . . . . . . . . . . : RangeMax(tm) NEXT Wireless
Notebook Adapter WN511B
Physical Address. . . . . . . . . : 00-14-6C-D2-FE-4E
Dhcp Enabled. . . . . . . . . . . : Yes
Autoconfiguration Enabled . . . . : Yes
IP Address. . . . . . . . . . . . : 192.168.1.7
Subnet Mask . . . . . . . . . . . : 255.255.255.0
Default Gateway . . . . . . . . . : 192.168.1.1
DHCP Server . . . . . . . . . . . : 192.168.1.1
DNS Servers . . . . . . . . . . . : 192.168.1.1
Lease Obtained. . . . . . . . . . : Sunday, June 07, 2009
8:46:01 PM
Lease Expires . . . . . . . . . . : Monday, June 08, 2009
8:46:01 PM
Ethernet adapter Local Area Connection:
Media State . . . . . . . . . . . : Media disconnected
Description . . . . . . . . . . . : National Semiconductor
Corp. DP83815/816 10/100 MacPhyter PCI Adapter
Physical Address. . . . . . . . . : 00-0B-CD-87-45-9F
 
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R

Randem

Your Netgear WNR2000 wireless router should be set up for DHCP and it should
be the only DHCP server on the network.

What address range does your DHCP server give out. The addresses of your
computers suggest that the Win98 pc is giving out the IP addresses (a Big
NO-NO!!!).

If you only have DHCP on the router and you set all other computers to get
the IP and DNS address automatically you should be ok.

--
Randem Systems
Your Installation Specialist
The Top Inno Setup Script Generator
http://www.randem.com/innoscript.html
Disk Read Error Press Ctl+Alt+Del to Restart
http://www.randem.com/discus/messages/9402/9406.html?1236319938
 
S

Stan Hilliard

What is your routers IP address? Normally it is 192.168.1.1 but you have
your Win98 computer setup for that address.

The router's IP address is 192.168.1.1

The Win98SE computer's [Network] [TCP/IP] [Properties] are/were set as
follows:
[IP address] = "Obtain an IP address automatically."
Don't run DHCP or DNS on the
Win98 computer that should only be active on the router.

The Win98SE computer's [network] [TCP/IP] [Properties] are/were set as
follows:
[DNS Configuration] = "Disable DNS"

The only mention I see of DHCP in the Win98SE computer's [Network]
[TCP/IP] [Properties] are as follows:
[WINS Configuration] = "Use DHCP for WINS Resolution"
 
S

Stan Hilliard

Your Netgear WNR2000 wireless router should be set up for DHCP and it should
be the only DHCP server on the network.

What address range does your DHCP server give out.

The Netgear WNR2000 DHCP server gives out 192.168.1.2 to 192.168.1.254
Use Router As DHCP Server is checked.
RIP Direction = Both
RIP Version = Disabled
The addresses of your
computers suggest that the Win98 pc is giving out the IP addresses (a Big
NO-NO!!!).

I can't find evidence of the Win98 PC giving out the IP addresses. I
looked in TCP/IP properties. Where else should I look?
If you only have DHCP on the router and you set all other computers to get
the IP and DNS address automatically you should be ok.

The XP-Pro SP2 properties show DNS server as blank and IP address as
"DHCP Enabled". Ipconfig shows the IP address has changed from
192.168.1.5 yesterday to 192.168.1.6 today. I shutdown overnight and
reboot in the morning. Also the node type changed from "unknown" to
"Broadcast".

The XP-Home Laptop properties show DNS server as blank and IP address
as blank.
 
S

Stan Hilliard

Hire is more information. I found the following errors in the event
log at startup of the XP-Pro SP2 computer this morning. Some of the
errors are related to the functioning of the DHCP server. Do they
clarify why my network addressing is messed up?

====
Event Type: Error
Event Source: Dhcp
Event Category: None
Event ID: 1002
Date: 6/8/2009
Time: 5:18:54 AM
User: N/A
Computer: HOMEBUILT
Description:
The IP address lease 192.168.1.5 for the Network Card with network
address 00508D8287D7 has been denied by the DHCP server 192.168.1.1
(The DHCP Server sent a DHCPNACK message).

[NOTE: 192.168.1.5 was yesterdays IP of the XP-Pro. Today after
complete startup it was 192.168.1.6 -- Stan]
====
Event Type: Error
Event Source: NETLOGON
Event Category: None
Event ID: 3095
Date: 6/8/2009
Time: 5:18:55 AM
User: N/A
Computer: HOMEBUILT
Description:
This computer is configured as a member of a workgroup, not as a
member of a domain. The Netlogon service does not need to run in this
configuration.


====
Event Type: Error
Event Source: UPS
Event Category: None
Event ID: 2481
Date: 6/8/2009
Time: 5:19:21 AM
User: N/A
Computer: HOMEBUILT
Description:
The UPS service is not configured correctly.


====
Event Type: Error
Event Source: Service Control Manager
Event Category: None
Event ID: 7023
Date: 6/8/2009
Time: 5:19:35 AM
User: N/A
Computer: HOMEBUILT
Description:
The Windows Driver Foundation - User-mode Driver Framework service
terminated with the following error:
A device attached to the system is not functioning.


====
Event Type: Error
Event Source: Service Control Manager
Event Category: None
Event ID: 7000
Date: 6/8/2009
Time: 5:19:35 AM
User: N/A
Computer: HOMEBUILT
Description:
The Upload Manager service failed to start due to the following error:
The account specified for this service is different from the account
specified for other services running in the same process.


Event Type: Error
Event Source: Service Control Manager
Event Category: None
Event ID: 7023
Date: 6/8/2009
Time: 5:19:35 AM
User: N/A
Computer: HOMEBUILT
Description:
The Uninterruptible Power Supply service terminated with the following
error:
The UPS service is not configured correctly.


====
Event Type: Error
Event Source: Dhcp
Event Category: None
Event ID: 1002
Date: 6/8/2009
Time: 9:52:37 AM
User: N/A
Computer: HOMEBUILT
Description:
The IP address lease 192.168.1.6 for the Network Card with network
address 00508D8287D7 has been denied by the DHCP server 192.168.1.1
(The DHCP Server sent a DHCPNACK message).
 
L

Lem

Stan said:
I don't think I have a subnet. Could that be my problem?
Stan Hilliard

You have a subnet. See Steve Winograd's post for an explanation of what
is most likely going on.

You need to do some homework. Start here:
http://networking.nitecruzr.net/search?q=browser+election
http://networking.nitecruzr.net/2005/05/windows-9x-9598me-and-browser.html

--
Lem -- MS-MVP

To the moon and back with 2K words of RAM and 36K words of ROM.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apollo_Guidance_Computer
http://history.nasa.gov/afj/compessay.htm
 
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S

Stan Hilliard

You can make sure all your computers are with the IP address in the same subnet so they will be able to see each other no matter how many are online. subnet
I don't think I have a subnet. Could that be my problem?
Stan Hilliard
 
S

Stan Hilliard

I inserted messages below.

Network browsing in Network Neighborhood and My Network Places depends
on having one computer, designated as the "master browser", keep track
of the computers and respond to browsing requests from other
computers. If that computer leaves the network, the other computers
are supposed to notice and elect another computer as the "master
browser".

Is there a way to specify which computer is the master browser?
This process is inherently unreliable. You can spend a lot of time
troubleshooting it, but I don't think it's worth the trouble.

A while back I tried to use Acronis 9.1 to backup my Win98SE to a HDD
on the XP-Pro computer. I couldn't make the connection at that time.
Perhaps it will work now that I know that the XP-Home Laptop has to be
connected in order to connect the other two computers. But I would
like to be able to make that connection not depend on having the
laptop.
Here are two ways to access another computer without using network
browsing:

1. Click Start > Run, type the other computer's name in "Open" box in
this format, and click OK:

\\computer

I tried that and it worked.
2. Create a desktop shortcut to the other computer, specifying the
location of the item as:

\\computer

I have done that and it works.
 
R

Randem

If the routers IP adsdress is 192.168.1.1 you reported that the Win98 PC was
the same. How can that be?

--
Randem Systems
Your Installation Specialist
The Top Inno Setup Script Generator
http://www.randem.com/innoscript.html
Disk Read Error Press Ctl+Alt+Del to Restart
http://www.randem.com/discus/messages/9402/9406.html?1236319938



Stan Hilliard said:
What is your routers IP address? Normally it is 192.168.1.1 but you have
your Win98 computer setup for that address.

The router's IP address is 192.168.1.1

The Win98SE computer's [Network] [TCP/IP] [Properties] are/were set as
follows:
[IP address] = "Obtain an IP address automatically."
Don't run DHCP or DNS on the
Win98 computer that should only be active on the router.

The Win98SE computer's [network] [TCP/IP] [Properties] are/were set as
follows:
[DNS Configuration] = "Disable DNS"

The only mention I see of DHCP in the Win98SE computer's [Network]
[TCP/IP] [Properties] are as follows:
[WINS Configuration] = "Use DHCP for WINS Resolution"
 
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