eSATA box for a SSD drive

P

philo 

I just thought: SSD 2.5", so 2.5" casing.


Is the SATAII interface that bothers you or the heating problems?


My error, you said SSD right in the subject

The case should be OK
 
G

GMAN

I don't wanna spend a load of money but I don't wanna something crappy
either.

How about this one:
http://www.fantec.de/html/en/4/artId/__1480/varId/__1480/bild/__2/gid/__5009052
09052790/article.html

Id buy this one instead, it does eSATAp (Power over SATA) so you dont have to
use a seperate power cord like you would the other box.


http://www.fantec.
de/html/en/4/artId/__1570/varId/__1570/bild/__2/gid/__500905209052790/article.
html



http://www.delock.de/mail/esatap/esatap.html
 
P

Paul

Davide said:
I don't wanna spend a load of money but I don't wanna something crappy
either.

How about this one:
http://www.fantec.de/html/en/4/artId/__1480/varId/__1480/bild/__2/gid/__500905209052790/article.html

SSD voltage requirement ?
SSD current requirement (power value divided by voltage) ?

Enclosure power sources:

1) Via USB3 cable - 5V source
2) Via one or two heads of USB2 cable - 5V source
3) Barrel connector for 5V adapter in center of enclosure

http://download.fantec.de/Manuals/DB-228U3e/Fantec_Manual_DB-228U3e.pdf

SATA interface is 7 pins and 15 pins. 7 pins for data, not
an issue. 15 pins for power carries 3.3V, 5V, 12V. In a
desktop, 3.3V would be missing. In a laptop, perhaps just
the 5V is there for 2.5" drives. Most of the time, you
would be dealing with a 5V drive. Only in odd circumstances
(1.8" SSD microdrive?) do you find 3.3V drives. SATA hard drives
should be 5V powered.

You need to ensure a source of power, and with sufficient
current capacity.

That model of Fantec doesn't have ESATAp, as GMAN was describing.
That's another way to get power, only there is an issue with it.

http://www.delock.de/mail/esatap/esatap.html

Laptops with built-in ESATAp, are a source of 5V over ESATAp pins.

Desktops with built-in ESATAp, are a source of 12V over ESATAp pins.

The same two pins, can carry a different voltage, which is dangerous.

A 2.5" enclosure would likely need 5V. Connecting a 2.5"
enclosure to a desktop ESATAp would be dangerous, without
more information to go on. Could be a cloud of smoke.

So while it may look easy to buy an enclosure, there's a
small checklist to make sure it'll all work together.

The advantage of using a USB3 interface, is both power
and data are in the same cable. And the interface is
a standard, not a defacto half-designed standard like
ESATAp. USB3 has a higher current flow limit than USB2.
You could still profit though, from some knowledge of
the SSD. Some of the older SSDs had a peak power draw
of around 7W (5V @ 1.4A). Newer ones, the power is
minuscule by comparison, and for those, just about any
of the power sources mentioned above is sufficient. The
reason for drawing 7W, is significant processing (compression)
and flash data movement, to optimize wear leveling and
recover from 4KB random write tests. Some of the newer
SSD drives have such low power requirements, that I
don't believe the written specs when I see them. They're
that low.

If you have a model of SSD in mind, please post details.

That Fantec has both a USB3 connector and an ESATA connector,
and it's unclear to me, how the enclosure decides which
data connection to use. If the USB3 cable carries power to
the unit for ESATA operation, then the electronics are also
going to use USB3 to carry the data. To use the ESATA in an
unambiguous way, you'd need to plug in the barrel connector
of an optional 5V adapter. (The barrel connectors come in
fifteen different sizes by the way... Radio Shack carries them.)

USB3 power -----> enclosure uses USB3 protocol
USB3 data

+5V 1A adapter -----> enclosure uses SATA protocol
ESATA data cable

(Barrel connector standards - the enclosure should state
barrel dimensions to make selection easier.)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adaptaplug#RadioShack_Adaptaplug_conversion_matrix

For me at least, buying these is not a ten minute job,
because so many details are left out.

And you do want them to work reliably. Remember, that an
SSD is less tolerant of powering problems - rip the power cord
out of an SSD while in mid-write, could leave the
SSD unusable. While we hope all operations inside
an SSD are "atomic", at least some enterprise versions
are equipped with a Supercap (energy storage device),
so they can properly flush the cache and maintain data
consistency. You should be a *lot* more careful with
an SSD in an enclosure, to think about stuff like that.
Do a "Safely Remove" in Windows, in the hope that all
operations are flushed before disconnecting.

Paul
 
P

Paul

Davide said:
I don't wanna spend a load of money but I don't wanna something crappy
either.

How about this one:
http://www.fantec.de/html/en/4/artId/__1480/varId/__1480/bild/__2/gid/__500905209052790/article.html

SSD voltage requirement ?
SSD current requirement (power value divided by voltage) ?

Enclosure power sources:

1) Via USB3 cable - 5V source
2) Via one or two heads of USB2 cable - 5V source
3) Barrel connector for 5V adapter in center of enclosure

http://download.fantec.de/Manuals/DB-228U3e/Fantec_Manual_DB-228U3e.pdf

SATA interface is 7 pins and 15 pins. 7 pins for data, not
an issue. 15 pins for power carries 3.3V, 5V, 12V. In a
desktop, 3.3V would be missing. In a laptop, perhaps just
the 5V is there for 2.5" drives. Most of the time, you
would be dealing with a 5V drive. Only in odd circumstances
(1.8" SSD microdrive?) do you find 3.3V drives. SATA hard drives
should be 5V powered.

You need to ensure a source of power, and with sufficient
current capacity.

That model of Fantec doesn't have ESATAp, as GMAN was describing.
That's another way to get power, only there is an issue with it.

http://www.delock.de/mail/esatap/esatap.html

Laptops with built-in ESATAp, are a source of 5V over ESATAp pins.

Desktops with built-in ESATAp, are a source of 12V over ESATAp pins.

The same two pins, can carry a different voltage, which is dangerous.

A 2.5" enclosure would likely need 5V. Connecting a 2.5"
enclosure to a desktop ESATAp would be dangerous, without
more information to go on. Could be a cloud of smoke.

So while it may look easy to buy an enclosure, there's a
small checklist to make sure it'll all work together.

The advantage of using a USB3 interface, is both power
and data are in the same cable. And the interface is
a standard, not a defacto half-designed standard like
ESATAp. USB3 has a higher current flow limit than USB2.
You could still profit though, from some knowledge of
the SSD. Some of the older SSDs had a peak power draw
of around 7W (5V @ 1.4A). Newer ones, the power is
minuscule by comparison, and for those, just about any
of the power sources mentioned above is sufficient. The
reason for drawing 7W, is significant processing (compression)
and flash data movement, to optimize wear leveling and
recover from 4KB random write tests. Some of the newer
SSD drives have such low power requirements, that I
don't believe the written specs when I see them. They're
that low.

If you have a model of SSD in mind, please post details.

That Fantec has both a USB3 connector and an ESATA connector,
and it's unclear to me, how the enclosure decides which
data connection to use. If the USB3 cable carries power to
the unit for ESATA operation, then the electronics are also
going to use USB3 to carry the data. To use the ESATA in an
unambiguous way, you'd need to plug in the barrel connector
of an optional 5V adapter. (The barrel connectors come in
fifteen different sizes by the way... Radio Shack carries them.)

USB3 power -----> enclosure uses USB3 protocol
USB3 data

+5V 1A adapter -----> enclosure uses SATA protocol
ESATA data cable

(Barrel connector standards - the enclosure should state
barrel dimensions to make selection easier.)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adaptaplug#RadioShack_Adaptaplug_conversion_matrix

For me at least, buying these is not a ten minute job,
because so many details are left out.

And you do want them to work reliably. Remember, that an
SSD is less tolerant of powering problems - rip the power cord
out of an SSD while in mid-write, could leave the
SSD unusable. While we hope all operations inside
an SSD are "atomic", at least some enterprise versions
are equipped with a Supercap (energy storage device),
so they can properly flush the cache and maintain data
consistency. You should be a *lot* more careful with
an SSD in an enclosure, to think about stuff like that.
Do a "Safely Remove" in Windows, in the hope that all
operations are flushed before disconnecting.

Paul
 
D

Davide Davini

GMAN said:
Id buy this one instead, it does eSATAp (Power over SATA) so you dont have to
use a seperate power cord like you would the other box.

That sounds like a good idea, thanks.
 
D

Davide Davini

Paul said:
SSD voltage requirement ?
SSD current requirement (power value divided by voltage) ?

I have to check that. I'm talking, probably, about a Samsung 830 128GB.
Enclosure power sources:

1) Via USB3 cable - 5V source
2) Via one or two heads of USB2 cable - 5V source
3) Barrel connector for 5V adapter in center of enclosure

http://download.fantec.de/Manuals/DB-228U3e/Fantec_Manual_DB-228U3e.pdf

SATA interface is 7 pins and 15 pins. 7 pins for data, not
an issue. 15 pins for power carries 3.3V, 5V, 12V. In a
desktop, 3.3V would be missing. In a laptop, perhaps just
the 5V is there for 2.5" drives. Most of the time, you
would be dealing with a 5V drive. Only in odd circumstances
(1.8" SSD microdrive?) do you find 3.3V drives. SATA hard drives
should be 5V powered.

You need to ensure a source of power, and with sufficient
current capacity.

That model of Fantec doesn't have ESATAp, as GMAN was describing.
That's another way to get power, only there is an issue with it.

http://www.delock.de/mail/esatap/esatap.html

Laptops with built-in ESATAp, are a source of 5V over ESATAp pins.

Desktops with built-in ESATAp, are a source of 12V over ESATAp pins.

The same two pins, can carry a different voltage, which is dangerous.

A 2.5" enclosure would likely need 5V. Connecting a 2.5"
enclosure to a desktop ESATAp would be dangerous, without
more information to go on. Could be a cloud of smoke.

So while it may look easy to buy an enclosure, there's a
small checklist to make sure it'll all work together.

****, I didn't know that. Thanks mate.
The advantage of using a USB3 interface, is both power
and data are in the same cable. And the interface is
a standard, not a defacto half-designed standard like
ESATAp. USB3 has a higher current flow limit than USB2.
You could still profit though, from some knowledge of
the SSD. Some of the older SSDs had a peak power draw
of around 7W (5V @ 1.4A). Newer ones, the power is
minuscule by comparison, and for those, just about any
of the power sources mentioned above is sufficient. The
reason for drawing 7W, is significant processing (compression)
and flash data movement, to optimize wear leveling and
recover from 4KB random write tests. Some of the newer
SSD drives have such low power requirements, that I
don't believe the written specs when I see them. They're
that low.

If you have a model of SSD in mind, please post details.

See above mentioned Samsung 830. I'll check specs and post back as soon
as I can.
That Fantec has both a USB3 connector and an ESATA connector,
and it's unclear to me, how the enclosure decides which
data connection to use. If the USB3 cable carries power to
the unit for ESATA operation, then the electronics are also
going to use USB3 to carry the data. To use the ESATA in an
unambiguous way, you'd need to plug in the barrel connector
of an optional 5V adapter. (The barrel connectors come in
fifteen different sizes by the way... Radio Shack carries them.)

USB3 power -----> enclosure uses USB3 protocol
USB3 data

+5V 1A adapter -----> enclosure uses SATA protocol
ESATA data cable

(Barrel connector standards - the enclosure should state
barrel dimensions to make selection easier.)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adaptaplug#RadioShack_Adaptaplug_conversion_matrix


For me at least, buying these is not a ten minute job,
because so many details are left out.

I'm beginning to see that. :)
And you do want them to work reliably. Remember, that an
SSD is less tolerant of powering problems - rip the power cord
out of an SSD while in mid-write, could leave the
SSD unusable. While we hope all operations inside
an SSD are "atomic", at least some enterprise versions
are equipped with a Supercap (energy storage device),
so they can properly flush the cache and maintain data
consistency. You should be a *lot* more careful with
an SSD in an enclosure, to think about stuff like that.
Do a "Safely Remove" in Windows, in the hope that all
operations are flushed before disconnecting.

Thanks mate, you've been really helpful.
 
P

Paul

Davide said:
I have to check that. I'm talking, probably, about a Samsung 830 128GB.

http://www.samsung.com/us/computer/memory-storage/MZ-7PC128N/AM-features

"Power

* 0.15W Power Consumption
* 5V ± 5%
"

So it has a tiny power consumption. 5V at 30mA is nothing.
It could be powered by one USB2 cable, a USB3 cable, a small 5V
adapter (even a 5V @ 500mA adapter would be plenty).

If you go with the ESATAp solution, it's safest to use ESATAp
built into a laptop, as that is a 5V source. Some desktop
ESATAp ports are 12V output, and would burn the SSD. No matter
what ESATAp controller you use, you need to verify that detail
before connecting a device.

Also, that ESATAp enclosure, the manual isn't ready for it yet.
The link to the PDF points to the other enclosure information.
I was not able to find a manual for the ESATAp version. Many
sites list it for sale, but it's hard to say whether it is in
stock yet.

*******

The absolute best USB3 transfer rate is listed here as 336MB/sec.
Not all enclosure chips, can achieve a speed like that. Anandtech
did a review the other day, where something they used got pretty
close, but I didn't see details of what they were using.

http://www.nordichardware.com/Archive/LucidPort-announce-USB-3.0-to-SATA-bridge-chip.html

The ESATAp might go faster. That is, depending on what the
ESATA data interface on the computer supports (it's probably
SATA II and not SATA III). If I had to guess, without a lot
of extra effort, you might see 200MB/sec in your first experiments.
Using USB3 or ESATA (and it's usual SATA II hardware). A company
could certainly make a card with an ESATA connector and a
SATA III chip, so it could happen.

On the computer end, I'm not finding a lot of solutions
to give ESATAp for a connector. Whereas setting up USB3 on
a computer that doesn't have it, is a bit easier. You may have
some better choices in Europe. What I could find here wasn't
that encouraging.

Paul
 
D

Davide Davini

Paul wrote:
<read and snipped>

Thanks a lot Paul. You've been very, very helpful.
 

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