Epson ICE introducing atifacts. (0/1)

[P. Taine]

I recently bought an Epson V700 and am using it to scan slides. I have been
scanning at moderate resolution (1200 dpi) to establish an index. I wanted a
higher resolution for one slide, and scanned it at 4800 dpi, and checked ICE.
The result had serious atifacts, which were not present when I rescanned with
dust removal checked (with out removing/replaceing the slide, I just left it
there).

Is this a known problem with ICE? Or could it be the particular scanner?

I don't know if this group allows attachments, but I'm going to try attaching
clips from the two scans.

 

[P. Taine]

So, that didn't work. Okay, here are links to the images:

http://mysite.verizon.net/calberga/Scanned with ICE.jpg

http://mysite.verizon.net/calberga/Scanned with Dust Removal.jpg

 

[tinnews]

There are issues with ICE and some Kodachrome slides. Kodachrome has
issues with IR light, which is how ICE works.

I don't think it's this causing the artefacts though.

Also, 4800 dpi is a terribly high resolution, it is more than 30
megapixels. There just isn't that much information THERE on a 35mm
image, and you are going to get some possibly strange results.

This is more like it. I tried ICE on a variety of 35mm slides at 3200 dpi
and even at that resolution it occasionally produced odd effects,
especially on sharp contrasty edges. The dust removal can also
produce some odd effects. My conclusion was that for 'mass scanning'
one is much better off simply cleaning the slides as best one can and
turning off both dust removal and ICE. (I'm archiving a lot of old
slides before they fade away completely)

If/when you decide you want to get the best possible scan from a
particular slide then experiment with ICE, dust removal, etc. but be
prepared to spend some time finding the best compromise. I found
that, in general, the dust removal doesn't do a lot whereas ICE can do
a good job but takes time.

 

[obakesan]

Hi

So, that didn't work. Okay, here are links to the images:

http://mysite.verizon.net/calberga/Scanned with ICE.jpg

http://mysite.verizon.net/calberga/Scanned with Dust Removal.jpg

I've had problems with ICE on my Epson 4870 when scanning E-6 films (not
kodachrome), I don't recall seeing it on negatives. I think that it might be
related to the way that the scanners light source works (being a hybrid of
cold cathode and LED for the IR).

For example, this is from Provia RDP-III

http://home.people.net.au/~cjeastwd/dev/artifacts.jpg

I have not had anything like this experince with the ICE implimentation on the
Nikon LS-40 and LS-50 scanners.

I now no longer use ICE on my Epson BTW

See Ya
(when bandwidth gets better ;-)

Chris Eastwood
Photographer, Programmer
Motorcyclist and dingbat

please remove undies for reply

 

[obakesan]

Hi

First, by the way, not sure what you mean by
ICE AND dust removal; ICE IS dust removal, among other things (dirt and
scratch removal also).

Epson (as well as other scanners) have 'software' based dust removal. I've
found that on batch scanning it can remove buttons from coats, and even eye's
from faces in group shots.

so it often ends up requiring more effort than not using it

for batch scanning you just can't go past the Nikon with a roll feeder or
slide feeder (yes there are issues but yes there are published solutions,
just Google it)

An interesting thing about resolution: If a given resolution setting
(or a given physical optical resolution) is too high, then you only have
two choices:

1. Cut the resolution by ONE-QUARTER (eg cut it in half both vertically
and horizontally, that is, use every other pixel)

OR

2. Use a resolution that is based on interpolated pixels.

That is one reason why I still like (and in some cases prefer) the older
Nikon scanners (LS-2000, LS-30) to newer models. The LS-2000 is 2,700
dpi which gives a 10 megapixel scan ..... which is "just right", most of
the time. Newer models are mostly 4,000 dpi, which is well over 20

you can set them (LS-40ED is only 2900 anyway) to scan at 2700 dpi too you
know ;-)


See Ya
(when bandwidth gets better ;-)

Chris Eastwood
Photographer, Programmer Motorcyclist and dingbat
blog: http://cjeastwd.blogspot.com/

please remove undies for reply

 

[tinnews]

Re: "My conclusion was that for 'mass scanning' one is much better off
simply cleaning the slides as best one can and turning off both dust
removal and ICE."

That isn't generally true. First, by the way, not sure what you mean by
ICE AND dust removal; ICE IS dust removal, among other things (dirt and
scratch removal also).

Re-read the original post, this is specifically about the Epson V700
where ICE and Dust Removal *are* two distinct operations. You can
select one or the other but not both.

.... and you have given no reasons why you think "That isn't generally
true", you may well be right but without any explanation your comment
isn't terribly useful.

An interesting thing about resolution: If a given resolution setting
(or a given physical optical resolution) is too high, then you only have
two choices:

1. Cut the resolution by ONE-QUARTER (eg cut it in half both vertically
and horizontally, that is, use every other pixel)

OR

2. Use a resolution that is based on interpolated pixels.

That is one reason why I still like (and in some cases prefer) the older
Nikon scanners (LS-2000, LS-30) to newer models. The LS-2000 is 2,700
dpi which gives a 10 megapixel scan ..... which is "just right", most of
the time. Newer models are mostly 4,000 dpi, which is well over 20
megapixels (well over as in closer to 30MP). Problem is, that is TOO
HIGH for most material, the file sizes are huge, the processing times
are slow and you typically don't gain any real, actual quality because
there isn't 20 megapixels of information present in most 35mm images
(keep in mind what MOST means: Most films, most lenses, most cameras,
most processing, most photographers).

That's why I have settled on 3200dpi for scanning 35mm slides on my
V700, it's a 'native' resolution as it were for the scanner (at least
I think it is!).

 

[tomm42]

Re-read the original post, this is specifically about the Epson V700
where ICE and Dust Removal *are* two distinct operations. You can
select one or the other but not both.

... and you have given no reasons why you think "That isn't generally
true", you may well be right but without any explanation your comment
isn't terribly useful.






That's why I have settled on 3200dpi for scanning 35mm slides on my
V700, it's a 'native' resolution as it were for the scanner (at least
I think it is!).

I don't see any advantage going any higher than 3200 on the V700,
seems to be the "sweet spot" for this scanner. This goes for 2 1/4 as
well as 35mm. I don't use Digital Ice unless the slide is filthy and
my brush and Rocket Blower can't take care of the dust. One question
was the OP referring to the Epson dust removal, which I find is awful,
or the Digital Ice. Printing a 4800 ppi scan or a 3200 ppi scan to
11x15 doesn't show any difference in my tests.

Tom