Epson 4870 Resolution test

M

Mike Engles

Hello

I have at this link
http://www.btinternet.com/~mike.engles/mike/compare.tif in LZW
compression.

A image with a screen grab of 3 Epson 4870 resolutions.

They are 2400, 3200 and 4800 DPI
The 3200 and 4800 have been downsampled to 2400DPI using bicubic in
Photoshop CS. I assume that this can be considered valid.

I can post the separate images as LZW tiffs if anyone is interested.

Mike Engles
 
W

Wayne Fulton

Hello

I have at this link
http://www.btinternet.com/~mike.engles/mike/compare.tif in LZW
compression.

A image with a screen grab of 3 Epson 4870 resolutions.

They are 2400, 3200 and 4800 DPI
The 3200 and 4800 have been downsampled to 2400DPI using bicubic in
Photoshop CS. I assume that this can be considered valid.


Not really valid, because ideally they would all look the same, and
they seem to. It would be much better to upsample all of them to 4800
dpi (or a smaller portion of all of them). You must compare them at
the same size, but at the maximum resolution.

There shouldnt really be any difference if all are at 2400 dpi. 4800
dpi might do more detail, but if you discard it to show it at 2400 dpi,
who would ever know it was better?

But if upsampling all to 4800 dpi, then the 2400 dpi can only show 2400
even if upsampled larger, that is, it cannot get better regarding
detail. Upsampling still only shows what it can do, but simply larger
for a fair comparison. But 4800 dpi might actually be better, at least
that is the idea, so such comparison would show that 4800 dpi actually
can or cannot show more than 2400 dpi, or how much better...

We would expect a large difference of course, but if there is not a
large difference, you might also include a 1200 dpi upsampled to 4800.
 
D

Douglas MacDonald

The whole thing about trying to display a scanned image on someone else's
monitor is a totally flawed concept. It's hard enough to do it for a
magazine but at least there is some comparative ability with printed
results.

Even so, the only true example of a successful scan - whatever the
resolution, is a printed example which of course cannot be produced or even
re-produced on a computer screen you have no control over. Suffice to say
the scanner is a really good one. Just hope to God you don't get Epson
support involved or you'll end up with a new PC and the same problems!

Douglas
-------------
 
M

Mike Engles

Wayne said:
Not really valid, because ideally they would all look the same, and
they seem to. It would be much better to upsample all of them to 4800
dpi (or a smaller portion of all of them). You must compare them at
the same size, but at the maximum resolution.

There shouldnt really be any difference if all are at 2400 dpi. 4800
dpi might do more detail, but if you discard it to show it at 2400 dpi,
who would ever know it was better?

But if upsampling all to 4800 dpi, then the 2400 dpi can only show 2400
even if upsampled larger, that is, it cannot get better regarding
detail. Upsampling still only shows what it can do, but simply larger
for a fair comparison. But 4800 dpi might actually be better, at least
that is the idea, so such comparison would show that 4800 dpi actually
can or cannot show more than 2400 dpi, or how much better...

We would expect a large difference of course, but if there is not a
large difference, you might also include a 1200 dpi upsampled to 4800.


Hello

Thanks for the suggestion.
As I see it on screen, the 2400 looked just a bit sharper, The others
are degraded. I will have a go at your suggestion. The problem is is
that I really don't believe that these scanners are capable of even a
true 2000DPI. All the rest is marketing and interpolation.

They are really good scanners if you don't believe the hype.

Mike Engles
 
M

Mike Engles

Douglas said:
The whole thing about trying to display a scanned image on someone else's
monitor is a totally flawed concept. It's hard enough to do it for a
magazine but at least there is some comparative ability with printed
results.

Even so, the only true example of a successful scan - whatever the
resolution, is a printed example which of course cannot be produced or even
re-produced on a computer screen you have no control over. Suffice to say
the scanner is a really good one. Just hope to God you don't get Epson
support involved or you'll end up with a new PC and the same problems!

Douglas


Hello

I have to say that luckily I have had no problems.
It worked and delivered very pleasing results, if not the resolution
that I expected, but I was'nt expection that anyway.

Mike Engles
 
D

Douglas MacDonald

So Mike... What leads you to the conclusion that the scanner is
interpolating over 2000 dpi? According to the Epson R&D, it has Optical
resolution of 4800 dpi. Certainly the prints I am getting are interpolated
to obtain the 5 feet length but a native scan will still produce well over
20"x30" prints at least as good as what I get from an enlarger.

Douglas
 
R

Ralf R. Radermacher

Douglas MacDonald said:
According to the Epson R&D, it has Optical
resolution of 4800 dpi.

You're mixing things up, here. There are no public statements from Epson
R&D about the optical resolution of the 4870. The figure you're quoting
has been put forward by their *marketing* department. The actual
resolution is well below 2000 dpi.

Ralf
 
D

David J. Littleboy

Douglas MacDonald said:
So Mike... What leads you to the conclusion that the scanner is
interpolating over 2000 dpi? According to the Epson R&D, it has Optical
resolution of 4800 dpi. Certainly the prints I am getting are interpolated
to obtain the 5 feet length but a native scan will still produce well over
20"x30" prints at least as good as what I get from an enlarger.

The 4870 is a 2400 dpi scanner. As Epson explains, it uses two 2400 dpi CCDs
offset by 1/2 a pixel width. So the _optical_ resolution (at least as
defined by the pixel size: whether the lens can resolve that well (47 lp/mm
or so) is an open question) is 2400 dpi. It "oversteps" this 2400 dpi
optical scanner to generate a mechanically interpolated 4800 dpi image.

There are people (here and elsewhere) who claim that this "overstepping"
improves resolution slightly. In the case of the Epson 2450, 3200, and 4870,
this theory appears leaky.

David J. Littleboy
Tokyo, Japan
 
B

Bart van der Wolf

SNIP
As I see it on screen, the 2400 looked just a bit sharper, The
others are degraded. I will have a go at your suggestion. The
problem is is that I really don't believe that these scanners are
capable of even a true 2000DPI. All the rest is marketing and
interpolation.

Why speculate about it, when you can measure the resolution and also compare
visually or print.
If you shoot the resolution target I made on fine grain film, e.g. Provia or
Velvia, you can determine the lp/mm resolution the scanner is capable of at
almost any angle.

The target file that I have created is also suited for Digcam sensors, not
only for analog film, and you can make your own target from it at home with
a decent inkjet printer.
For HP inkjet printers (3.77MB):
http://www.xs4all.nl/~bvdwolf/main/downloads/Jtf60cy-100mm_600ppi.gif
For Epson inkjet printers (5.28MB):
http://www.xs4all.nl/~bvdwolf/main/downloads/Jtf60cy-100mm_720ppi.gif

Print it at the indicated ppi without printer enhancements on glossy
Photopaper which should produce a 100x100mm target, and shoot it with your
(digi)cam from a (non-critical) distance like between 25-50x the focal
length. Make a few shots and refocus each time to make sure you get the best
possible focus, and using a tripod and mirror lock-up will also help. This
will produce an image on film with a resolution that exceeds the capability
of most scanners. Now scan the film at different resolutions and you can use
the mid-gray background to get appropriate contrast if you don't clip the
shadows/highlights.

The resulting "blur"center diameter is a measure of "on-sensor resolution"
of the whole optical chain (lens+film+scanner lens+sensor), and can be
expressed as cy/mm after calculating "(60/pi)/diameter". The diameter can be
expressed as number of pixels multiplied by the sensor's pixel pitch
(25.4/PPI for mm).

Also remember that the scan can have USM applied to improve small detail
contrast, but it won't change the resolution.

As an example of a comparison on an older target (not as suited for digicams
as the improved target), you can look at a link I published earlier:
http://www.xs4all.nl/~bvdwolf/main/foto/scan/se5400/se5400.htm , example 1.

Bart
 
M

Mike Engles

Douglas said:
So Mike... What leads you to the conclusion that the scanner is
interpolating over 2000 dpi? According to the Epson R&D, it has Optical
resolution of 4800 dpi. Certainly the prints I am getting are interpolated
to obtain the 5 feet length but a native scan will still produce well over
20"x30" prints at least as good as what I get from an enlarger.

Douglas


Hello

I am comparing it to what my LS50 does with the same slide at 4000 DPI.

I can live with the scanner being at least a true 2000DPI scanner, as I
will mainly be using it with Medium Format. I also do like the results
it gives with Kodachromes compared to the LS50. The Nikon produces very
grainy shadows, presumably because of the type of illumination.

I have been producing these comparisons, as a guide for those who are
seeking information on the Epson.

Mike Engles
 
B

Bart van der Wolf

SNIP
There are people (here and elsewhere) who claim that this "overstepping"
improves resolution slightly. In the case of the Epson 2450, 3200, and 4870,
this theory appears leaky.

;-)

4800 spatially discrete samples (!) is better than 2400 samples if the lens
is good enough, because it improves MTF, resolution, AND it reduces
grain-aliasing.

The test that Mike Engles just posted shows a clear resolution improvement
going from 2400 to 3200, and a marginal increase going to 4800.

In case of the staggered/half pixel offset sensors, the effect may be a
little less obvious because the samples may overlap a bit. That will not
help resolution as much as it does help MTF. However, I believe the lens is
the weakest link in the chain.

Bart
 
B

Bart van der Wolf

SNIP
The Nikon produces very grainy shadows, presumably because
of the type of illumination.

In comparison, yes. That is the main reason, but combined with the scanner
lens limitations. The diffuse light is an effective graininess killer.
That's been exploited a long time already since the darkroom enlargers were
equipped with (double) condensors, or bare bulbs, or frosted bulbs or even
softboxes and it also modifies contrast depending on grain. The reason you
don't see it often in dedicated film scanners is because it requires much
longer exposure times.
I have been producing these comparisons, as a guide for those who
are seeking information on the Epson.

Appreciated, and it also pays to satisfy one's own curiosity ;-)

Bart
 
K

Kennedy McEwen

Mike Engles said:
Hello

Thanks for the suggestion.
As I see it on screen, the 2400 looked just a bit sharper, The others
are degraded. I will have a go at your suggestion. The problem is is
that I really don't believe that these scanners are capable of even a
true 2000DPI. All the rest is marketing and interpolation.

They are really good scanners if you don't believe the hype.
The whole concept that a scanner's performance can be summed up in one
"resolution" figure is the hype that *you* are believing. I am sure
that you know the difference between interpolation and "sampling at or
beyond the resolution limit" so ask why you still insist on making such
totally unfounded statements.

It has long been the practice in the scanner industry for the sampling
density to be quoted as "the resolution" of the scanner, even though
resolution means something completely different in optical terms. In
fact, if you search through Google records you will find a few threads
in this newsgroup from around 5 or 6 years ago when I argued that we
should campaign to stop this practice but a few "experts" disagreed,
taking the view that everyone understood what was meant by resolution so
why change things. My point then, which you are still demonstrating
today, was that this is not true at all. Many people, particularly
those coming from a photographic or astronomy background, use the true
meaning of resolution and attempt to translate that to a digital world,
often making mistakes along the way which merely compounds the problem.

The Epson 4870 *is* a 4800ppi scanner because it *samples* the image at
4800 samples per inch. This says nothing about the true optical
resolution of the scanner (although the marketing team and some here
argue that this should be termed the optical resolution specifically to
discriminate between interpolated resolution), nor does it imply that
any mode above the optical resolution is interpolation. Interpolation
means that the scanner samples the image at a lower density and then
*creates* (or guesses!) the additional samples necessary to reach
4800dpi. Whilst this may not be significantly different in terms of the
resolution of the final image, depending on the true optical resolution
of the system, it certainly is very different in terms of both noise and
signal to noise ratio.

Resolution is simply the minimum separation between two point sources
such that they can be perceived to be distinct rather than one
continuous larger source. It says nothing about how well they are
distinguished, or the contrast between the two objects and the
background.

In the analogue optical world that distinction was less important
because the only function that limited the ability to distinguish
between the objects was the contrast between the objects and the
background, so a higher resolution optical system meant that the objects
could be placed closer together before the contrast between them and the
intervening background fell to the same level as with the lower
resolution system at greater spacing.

That assessment is not so simple in a digital, sampled environment
because not only does the contrast limit the distinction of two objects,
but the sampling density also does. Clearly, it is still possible to
have a sampled system where the contrast between background and objects
determines the limiting resolution - and such a system is the Epson
scanner you are assessing. However, it is also possible to have a
system where the minimum separation between objects is defined by the
sampling density, where the separation of the objects becomes so close
that it is no longer possible to guarantee that a sample will fall in
the background between the two objects, and so they cannot be perceived
as distinct. In this case, nothing at all is determined about the
contrast between the background and the objects. The contrast could, if
a sample happened by chance to fall on the background, be very high
indeed. Such a case is your Nikon LS-50 scanner.

When a very high optical resolution system is coupled to a low sampling
density system, the minimum separation between close objects will be
reached with a very high contrast. However a lower optical resolution
system coupled to that same sampling system would result in the minimum
separation being reached at a lower contrast. Both systems have the
same sampling density and thus, by common scanner terminology, the same
"optical resolution" - even though they have very different true optical
resolutions. The former case typifies your Nikon, the latter case
typifies your Epson - neither case uses interpolation.
 
?

-

Why speculate about it, when you can measure the resolution and also
compare
visually or print.

To me, a potential issue is what loss of quality is added by the extra steps
the image must go through before it reaches the scanner for scanning. For
instance if someone uses a less than top notch lens, film, technique, etc.,
that "degradation" can affect the final results one would obtain. That is
why I felt it was important I wait until I could obtain what I believe is a
professionally produced test negative (from Toppan -
http://www.toppan.co.jp/english/) for the test images I posted on Friday.
Hopefully, that bypassed any errors my equipment or technique would have
introduced :)

I didn't interpolate the files up or down to rule out any influence from
that process. When you get down to making a judgment call and assigning
pixels to line pairs in order to come up with your lp/mm numbers, a
minuscule change does show up in your final calculations.

Doug (the other Doug)
 
K

Kennedy McEwen

David J. Littleboy said:
The 4870 is a 2400 dpi scanner. As Epson explains, it uses two 2400 dpi CCDs
offset by 1/2 a pixel width. So the _optical_ resolution (at least as
defined by the pixel size: whether the lens can resolve that well (47 lp/mm
or so) is an open question) is 2400 dpi.

Rubbish! You have not described anything in the above paragraph which
defines or restricts resolution at all! Indeed, you have the
description wrong - the separation is half a pitch, not half a width -
they are not the same! Whilst optical resolution is a function of pixel
size, it certainly is not a function of pixel pitch!

Furthermore David, your entire premise, which you have been peddling in
these parts and others for at least 6 years, is that the optical
resolution limit is determined by twice the pitch of the pixels, giving
one pixel per black line and one per white line in the test - your 47
lp/mm quoted above. Nothing could be further from the truth, and very
simple tests can demonstrate this. The staggered CCD can resolve well
beyond 47 lp/mm and the lens required on the scanner clearly needs to do
so as well. A 100% fill factor CCD element of a 2400dpi CCD can resolve
up to 94.5cy/mm and a practical fill factor of, say 80% area, is capable
of resolving even more than this.

To demonstrate the resolution of the CCD, take two sheets of graph paper
(or draw this on Powerpoint or some other package). On one of them draw
a row of squares with 2cm sides (or two units of whatever size squares
are on the paper) with each square butted up against the next - this is
your model CCD. On the other sheet, draw a square wave of 4cm high and
4cm low, 8cm period - this is your resolution test pattern - high being
equivalent to "white" and low being "black". In fact, the test pattern
should be a sine wave, but square waves are easier to work with as you
will see later and the results, whilst slightly different in amplitude,
are almost identical in terms of boundary conditions.

Now place your model CCD under the test pattern - in any relative
position - and work out what signal each element in the CCD produces. If
the element is entirely underneath a high section of the pattern then it
will output a high signal, if it is entirely underneath a low section of
the pattern it will output a low signal. Some elements will fall
underneath the transition between high and low and will output a signal
which is proportional to the amount of high and low sections of the test
pattern it occupies. What you should see is that, no matter what
position you place the CCD in relative to the test pattern, the output
amplitude is still the same - peaks at 100% high and troughs of 100%
low.

Repeat this with a test pattern which is 3cm (or units) in each high and
low (ie. a period of 6cm), and you will find almost the same results -
no matter where you position the model CCD relative to the model test
pattern the output amplitude will still be the same, however this time
there are more intermediate samples where the signal is between the peak
high and low positions.

Repeat this again, with a test pattern which is 2cm (or units) in each
high and low (ie. a period of 4cm). In this case, in almost every
position the output signal is an intermediate case between 100% black
and white, but an output signal from the CCD which is representative of
the test pattern is still produced. There are two special positions
however. One of these corresponds to where the CCD centres fall exactly
below the centres of the high and low sections of the test pattern,
resulting in 100% signal on each pixel. The other is where the centres
of the CCD lie exactly on the transition of the test pattern between
high and low. In this position, and this position only, the output from
each pixel in the CCD is 50% between black and white and no
representation of the test pattern is produced.

Nevertheless, in almost every position of the model CCD relative to the
model test pattern an output representative of the test pattern is
produced. Clearly the CCD is still capable of resolving the test
pattern, except in the one case where its centres happens to line up
with the transitions. On average, the test pattern is still well
resolved.

Repeat this again, with a test pattern which is 1.5cm (or units) in each
high and low (ie. a period of 3cm). In this case all of the outputs
from the CCD elements, irrespective of the relative position of the CCD
and the test pattern, are at intermediate levels between black and
white. Nevertheless, each pixel, irrespective of the relative position
of the test pattern and the CCD, produces a different output signal. The
overall output signal does not have the same period as the test pattern,
but it is related to it. In short, even though the individual lines on
the test pattern (the high or the low sections) are smaller than the CCD
pitch, they are still capable of stimulating an output signal which is
related to the test pattern.

Repeat this again, with a test pattern which is 1cm (or units) in each
high and low (ie. a period of 2cm). In this case, no matter what the
relative position of the test pattern is to the model CCD, each and
every CCD output is exactly 50% between the black and white levels. The
output contrast in every single position is zero. This is the lowest
resolution limit of the CCD.

What you might care to notice if you actually implement the above
demonstration, is that this lowest resolution limit of the CCD (for
there are many and output signal again appears at reduced level for even
finer test patterns, such as 0.75cm widths of high and low section or a
period of 1.5cm) is actually DOUBLE what you call the optical resolution
above. With a 2400dpi CCD with 100% fill factor (as modelled by the 2cm
squares butted up to each other), this limit occurs at 2400 lp/inch,
which is 94lp/mm, not the 47 lp/mm you refer to above. Your condition
for optical resolution limit corresponds to a test pattern with a 4cm
(or other unit) period which, as demonstrated, is very well resolved
indeed. In short, the optical resolution defined by the pixel size is
actually twice the value that you claim it is!

For test patterns which are between the resolution limit that you claim
for pixel pitch and the true lowest optical resolution limit the output
of the single linear row CCD is an aliased representation of the test
pattern itself. This aliasing is imposed by the sampling density, NOT
the size of the pixel. By introducing a second row of identically sized
CCD elements that are offset by half a pitch (and you are free to repeat
the above demonstration with this arrangement if you need to prove it
for yourself) the aliasing is eliminated and the output signal
equivalent to the true optical resolution of the CCD pixel size is
reproduced exactly.

This oversampling (actually critical sampling rather than true
oversampling) of the CCD size is exactly what the Epson scanner does, it
is *NOT* an interpolation by any stretch of either imagination,
linguistics, nomenclature or semantics.
It "oversteps" this 2400 dpi
optical scanner to generate a mechanically interpolated 4800 dpi image.
NO interpolation is performed at all and, excluding the use of an abacus
or other mechanical computer to implement the necessary calculations,
there is no such thing as "mechanical interpolation"!
There are people (here and elsewhere) who claim that this "overstepping"
improves resolution slightly.

I don't think *anyone* claims that this improves resolution at all, not
even slightly. However many claim that it does improve performance and
image quality, in particular by ensuring that the scanner is limited by
its true optical resolution and not some artefact inducing digital
limitation. It does, however, result in a true optical resolution which
is lower than the Nyquist limit of the sampling system - coincidentally
meeting the requirement of all sampled systems.
In the case of the Epson 2450, 3200, and 4870,
this theory appears leaky.
Only because for the past 6 years you have failed to grasp the basic
premise of what the optical resolution of a CCD element actually is!

These scanners sample at sufficient density such that the true optical
resolution of the combination of CCD element size and the lens can be
achieved. As such their optical resolution (as opposed to sampling
density) is comparable to the same resolution limits as other
photographic systems such as lenses, telescopes, film and paper.

This is entire issue is a consequence of the misuse of the terms
"resolution" and "optical resolution" which is generic throughout the
entire scanner industry and certainly not restricted to the Epson
scanners that you cite, nor indeed even to Epson.
 
B

Bart van der Wolf

- said:
To me, a potential issue is what loss of quality is added by the extra steps
the image must go through before it reaches the scanner for scanning. For
instance if someone uses a less than top notch lens, film, technique, etc.,
that "degradation" can affect the final results one would obtain.

Absolutely correct, but the great thing is that it does show you wat your
combination of equipment produces at the end of the imaging chain.
That is why I felt it was important I wait until I could obtain what I believe
is a professionally produced test negative (from Toppan -
http://www.toppan.co.jp/english/) for the test images I posted on Friday.

Nothing wrong with that, although it will not show the interaction between
Camera lens MTF, Film MTF and Scanner (lens + sensor) MTF. A 'perfect' film
target only tells part of the story, and there are few targets that are
suitable for discrete sampling systems (digicam/scanner CCDs). Barchart
targets, especially if they only have horizontal/vertical features, are too
dependent on positioning (alignment with the sensor array). The best target
is one similar to the proposed ISO 16067-2 standard, but it can be
approximated by a sharp slanted edge if you use a linear gamma Raw file. It
does require some software to calculate the SFR curves.

Bart
 
D

David J. Littleboy

Kennedy McEwen said:
Only because for the past 6 years you have failed to grasp the basic
premise of what the optical resolution of a CCD element actually is!

I've only been using scanners for two years. Guess I must be working three
shifts.
These scanners sample at sufficient density such that the true optical
resolution of the combination of CCD element size and the lens can be
achieved. As such their optical resolution (as opposed to sampling
density) is comparable to the same resolution limits as other
photographic systems such as lenses, telescopes, film and paper.

This is entire issue is a consequence of the misuse of the terms
"resolution" and "optical resolution" which is generic throughout the
entire scanner industry and certainly not restricted to the Epson
scanners that you cite, nor indeed even to Epson.

Well, something's getting misused: Epson's having trouble getting 30 lp/mm
out of a system you seem to think capable of 97 lp/mm...

David J. Littleboy
Tokyo, Japan
 
D

Douglas MacDonald

So...
If we are to believe you David, Epson are committing fraud by claiming the
scanner has an optical resolution of 4800 dpi when in fact it is somewhat
lower, is this what you are saying?

From where I sit as a photographer - not an engineer, Epson claim many
things which people such as yourself disagree with. Not the least being 2400
dpi inkjet printers when in fact it is only 2400 across the platen and less
than half that down the sheet... Is this a 2400 dpi printer or not? Means
nothing to me, they produce better photographs than any other make.

In Australia and the USA as well as Britain, there are laws against
fraudulent advertising. There are laws too against people accusing
fraudulent behaviour when no such fraud exists. Why then, has there never
been an action by you or any of Epson's competitors to bring them to task
for claiming (according to you) a product has an optical resolution of 4800
dpi when it does not?

I am not now willing to listen to such engineer's babble. Already it has
produced a problem when one of them described a confusing memory situation
to me that I subsequently published... Looking like a fool in the process.

An Epson R&D Engineer told me on Tuesday of last week that the scanner has
"an optical resolution of 4800 dpi" which is backed up by published claims
of that figure. Now you say it's all lies. How could three countries with
laws which make fraudulent advertising a crime, permit such a claim?

No wonder these newsgroups are treated as hot beds of deception. For me, I
can produce prints http://www.technoaussie.com/judgment.htm which I could
not get at the resolution of this one with any other scanner I have owned.
If this is a 2400 dpi scanner then Epson should surely garner the accolades
for such breakthrough technology which enables it to do this? You don't
happen to work for Canon do you David?

Douglas
-----------------------
 
D

David J. Littleboy

Douglas MacDonald said:
So...
If we are to believe you David, Epson are committing fraud by claiming the
scanner has an optical resolution of 4800 dpi when in fact it is somewhat
lower, is this what you are saying?

I had some Kodak ProPhotoCD 1800 dpi scans (of 645 Provia 100F) done after I
bought my Epson 2450. They were worlds better than the Epson. I suspect the
4870 may be getting a bit closer to the Kodak, but I don't hear people being
as knocked out by the 4870 scans as I was by the Kodak.

The Epson makes 4800 measurements every inch, but it (it seems) measures an
area 1/2400 x 1/2400 instead of 1/4800 x 1/4800 of an inch. Kennedy claims
the technique is worthwhile. I don't see any proof of that.

Of course, even in my jaundiced view, it's at least a 2400 dpi scanner, and
assuming it's at all half decent as a 2400 dpi scanner, that should be
plenty to make MF fly. At 1/6 the price that I paid for my MF scanner. So
it's a great deal.
An Epson R&D Engineer told me on Tuesday of last week that the scanner has
"an optical resolution of 4800 dpi" which is backed up by published claims
of that figure. Now you say it's all lies. How could three countries with
laws which make fraudulent advertising a crime, permit such a claim?

That's because the term "optical resolution" doesn't mean anything said:
No wonder these newsgroups are treated as hot beds of deception. For me, I
can produce prints http://www.technoaussie.com/judgment.htm which I could
not get at the resolution of this one with any other scanner I have owned.
If this is a 2400 dpi scanner then Epson should surely garner the accolades
for such breakthrough technology which enables it to do this?

Actually, I agree with this, or at least I was hoping that this would be the
result, i.e. that despite the fuzzyness, the 4870 would be enough better
than the 2450 to make MF fly. When I was doing 645 with the 2450, I thought
that it wasn't good enough to match the D60, so I bought a Nikon 8000.
Hopefully a lot more people will be able to use MF now.
You don't happen to work for Canon do you David?

Nope. Don't even own any Canon products, yet. I'm hoping and praying that
they come out with something affordable and liftable that's as good as 645 +
the Nikon 8000.

David J. Littleboy
Tokyo, Japan
 
R

Ralf R. Radermacher

Douglas MacDonald said:
An Epson R&D Engineer told me on Tuesday of last week that the scanner has
"an optical resolution of 4800 dpi" which is backed up by published claims
of that figure.

Quite frankly, I find this more than a trifle odd. One day we get to
read your long and detailed complaints about the terrible time Epson's
engineering people gave you with all that false information while you
where trying to install your 4870 and now, only a day later, you're
getting all worked up trying to have us take their marketing hype at
face value?

Besides, I just checked on the Epson UK website: they're even
advertising an optical resolution of 4800 x 9600 dpi.

Ralf
 

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