Epson 3200 or the Epson 4870?

[Steve Orens]

There's nothing wrong with SCSI. A useable

You can run SCSI PCMCIA card. They're fairly inexpensive on eBay also.

Mac

Actually, that is not an option either. I opted for the 12-inch Aluminum
G4 Macintosh PowerBook, and to save on money, they've removed the PCMCIA
card. I am limiting my search to scanners which have USB or, preferrably,
FireWire.

thanks,
steve

 

[Raphael Bustin]

Actually, that is not an option either. I opted for the 12-inch Aluminum
G4 Macintosh PowerBook, and to save on money, they've removed the PCMCIA
card. I am limiting my search to scanners which have USB or, preferrably,
FireWire.

In other words, your 12-inch Aluminum G4 can't
quite match the awesome power and versatility
of a four year old 300 MHz Pentium Pro/
Windoze shitbox.

But hey, it looks really cool while it's not doing
all those things that you'd like it to do.

Sorry, Steve, I'm not usually so sarcastic but
you really ought to select your tools with some
notion of how you plan to use them.


rafe b.
http://www.terrapinphoto.com

 

[Steve Orens]

In other words, your 12-inch Aluminum G4 can't

quite match the awesome power and versatility
of a four year old 300 MHz Pentium Pro/
Windoze shitbox.

But hey, it looks really cool while it's not doing
all those things that you'd like it to do.

Sorry, Steve, I'm not usually so sarcastic but
you really ought to select your tools with some
notion of how you plan to use them.

Thanks for that insightful update on the state of the computing world.

Really, I was just looking for some friendly advice from people who have
had experience with the various products. I didn't realize this would
dredge bitter feelings for you.

If you promise to stop wasting my time with these insightful and helpful
posts, I will fully concede that a four year old 300 Mhz Pentium
Pro/Windoze shitbox has a SCSI port and therefore is better than my G4,
which just looks pretty.

thanks,
steve

 

[David R]

Steve we can't help you unless you tell us everything about what you
have and what you want to do.

My understanding is that you have 35mm film and zero prints to scan.
You have some sort of laptop. Can you spare a little bit more
information such as the brand name name and model of this laptop, the
CPU, and the OS you are running? Also do you have a free PCMCIA slot
available?

 

[Douglas MacDonald]

How stupid of me...
I should have added "in it's price range"
Of course it's no match for a Creo but you don't have to morgage your house
to pay for it either!

Did you just sit there on the fence waiting like a vulture to pounce on
anyone not writing a Nobel Prize winning masterpiece?
Douglas

 

[Raphael Bustin]

How stupid of me...
I should have added "in it's price range"
Of course it's no match for a Creo but you don't have to morgage your house
to pay for it either!

Did you just sit there on the fence waiting like a vulture to pounce on
anyone not writing a Nobel Prize winning masterpiece?
Douglas

You stated that "The 4870 is at the forefront of
flatbed film scanning technology."

It's categorical and hyperbolic statements that
bother me. If you'd said something like, "it's a
great scanner for the money" we wouldn't be
having this discussion. Nuff said.


rafe b.
http://www.terrapinphoto.com

 

[Steve Orens]

Steve we can't help you unless you tell us everything about what you
have and what you want to do.

My understanding is that you have 35mm film and zero prints to scan.
You have some sort of laptop. Can you spare a little bit more
information such as the brand name name and model of this laptop, the
CPU, and the OS you are running? Also do you have a free PCMCIA slot
available?

Thanks for the help. I was looking for some additional feedback on what
people thought of the Epson 3200 and the Epson 4870.

Thanks to some of the responses in this thread, I am now more aware of
the dedicated film scanners available and the price for which they can
be purchased. I will spend more time considering one of these.

My original questions were:

4870 owners: Are you happy with your purchase?
3200 owners who tried the 4870: If money didn't matter, would you keep the
4870?

Is dust removal only an option with the 4870? I didn't think the 3200 came
with Digital ICE. Does VueScan or SIlverfast have good options for dust
removal for the 3200?

For those who want to know everything, here goes:

Apple Aluminum G4 12-inch 1Ghz Powerbook, 768Mb RAM, 40Gb HD. no pcmcia
slot, usb, firewire, bluetooth

I have slides and 35mm film strips from my childhood that I am looking
to bring into the digital age. I have prints, but I am less concerned
with having digital copies of those (yet).

I hope thats enough info.

thanks,
steve

 

[Jeff]

Your best bet,
http://www.minoltausa.com/eprise/ma...DiMAGE_Scan_Elite_5400&mDetail=Specifications

Steve Orens wrote:

My original questions were:




For those who want to know everything, here goes:

Apple Aluminum G4 12-inch 1Ghz Powerbook, 768Mb RAM, 40Gb HD. no pcmcia
slot, usb, firewire, bluetooth

I have slides and 35mm film strips from my childhood that I am looking
to bring into the digital age. I have prints, but I am less concerned
with having digital copies of those (yet).

I hope thats enough info.

thanks,
steve

Cheers,
Jeff.

 

[Douglas MacDonald]

Pardon me for offending your sense of correctness Raphael.
I spend my days selling to consumers and small business owners. I sell what
is available from that unique source called "the Channel" which is the only
place computer stores can get their stock. Creo have never sold in stores
anywhere, AFAIK. And anyway, from what you claim your equipment to be...
You'd hardly have much of a clue from personal experience now, would you?

For one brief moment I forgot when in this group I was in the presence of
greatness. A mere dwarf in a land of giants, amongst those who really do
know about the very best that money can afford. Some may even have a
brochure on their wall so they can quote specifications and sound like real
Pro.

God help me for attempting to steer someone lost in the forrest of "experts"
towards a cheap scanner they can preserve their memories with. One I have
personal and intimate knowledge of and claim it is leading edge
technology... For consumers.

I never forgot what the original poster asked advise about, so naturally I
posted advise I would have given anyone coming into my store and asking the
same questions as Steve did. Next time, I will do as many others have done
in the past when they are tempted offer someone experienced advise... Shut
the **** up and leave the information posting to a "real" expert like you.

Douglas

 

[Raphael Bustin]

Thanks for that insightful update on the state of the computing world.

Really, I was just looking for some friendly advice from people who have
had experience with the various products. I didn't realize this would
dredge bitter feelings for you.

If you promise to stop wasting my time with these insightful and helpful
posts, I will fully concede that a four year old 300 Mhz Pentium
Pro/Windoze shitbox has a SCSI port and therefore is better than my G4,
which just looks pretty.

You've been given quite a few suggestions,
but none of them seem to work for your very
particular situation -- which we have learned
about in a rather incremental fashion.

Earlier suggestions were rejected for each
of the following reasons: high cost, SCSI,
lack of PCI slots, and lack of PCMCIA slot.

You mentioned film scanning in the first sentence
of your initial post... so it was natural that folks
here (who know their stuff) would try to point
you toward a dedicated film scanner.

Do check out the Pacific Image line of film
scanners <http://www.scanace.com>
I see both USB and Firewire support there.
These are generally inexpensive machines,
as I've mentioned. Make sure it's one of the
PC/Mac models and make sure it supports
whatever OS you have installed on your Mac.


rafe b.
http://www.terrapinphoto.com

 

[Douglas MacDonald]

Geez, Raphael...
You sure know how to pick a fight, don't you?
First you try and come across as some sort of expert on scanners and when
your advise is not worshiped, get stuck into someone who fits the
description the OP asked for replies from.

When that doesn't get you a hard-on you get stuck into the OP for his choice
of computers!... What a wonderful person you are. You must be an awesome
worry to your parents, Raphael. Some people are just a walking reminder of
why contraception is so important.

Douglas
--------------

 

[Raphael Bustin]

Pardon me for offending your sense of correctness Raphael.
I spend my days selling to consumers and small business owners. I sell what
is available from that unique source called "the Channel" which is the only
place computer stores can get their stock. Creo have never sold in stores
anywhere, AFAIK. And anyway, from what you claim your equipment to be...
You'd hardly have much of a clue from personal experience now, would you?

You don't know anything about the film scanners
I've owned, do you? Creo was only mentioned
because of your silly claim about the Epson 4870
being "at the forefront of flatbed film scanning
technology."

For one brief moment I forgot when in this group I was in the presence of
greatness. A mere dwarf in a land of giants, amongst those who really do
know about the very best that money can afford. Some may even have a
brochure on their wall so they can quote specifications and sound like real
Pro.

Excuse me, but my knowledge on this matter
comes from research and experience, not sales
brochures. Again, I refer you to my site,

http://www.terrapinphoto.com/jmdavis

which was put together with no modest effort
and with contributions from many serious
photographers. As opposed to you, I have
no interest in *selling* scanners, but rather in
understanding their capabilities and limitations,
and sharing that information with other serious
photographers who might be interested.

God help me for attempting to steer someone lost in the forrest of "experts"
towards a cheap scanner they can preserve their memories with. One I have
personal and intimate knowledge of and claim it is leading edge
technology... For consumers.

That latter qualification ("for consumers") did not
appear in the post to which I responded, nor in
subsequent posts. It makes its first appearance here.

Perhaps -- since the context really is and was
"consumer" scanners -- you'd have just been
better off omitting the marketing rap and stuck
to what you know. Eg, maybe the 4870 is the
best scanner *you've* used or sold -- and left
it at that.

I never forgot what the original poster asked advise about, so naturally I
posted advise I would have given anyone coming into my store and asking the
same questions as Steve did. Next time, I will do as many others have done
in the past when they are tempted offer someone experienced advise... Shut
the **** up and leave the information posting to a "real" expert like you.

My criticism of your post was - and remains -
direct and specific. The personal attack is
unwarranted. Let's just end it here, OK?


rafe b.
http://www.terrapinphoto.com

 

[Douglas MacDonald]

Nothing about owning Epson scanners on your site Raphael.

I won't bother with the: "mine is bigger than yours" hype you seem to
cherish.

Instead of going off in a cynical and sarcastic rant at someone offering
experienced help to someone asking for it... You'd do a lot better to offer
up a proper suggestion to the OP about what they actually asked about
instead of belittling him for your own twisted amusement. I suppose it's too
late to tell your mother about contraception, so we just have to put up with
your kind.

Douglas

 

[David R]

I would agree. His only way of attaching a scanner is through
Firewire. The Minolta 5400 is probably the best priced option. On
the flatbed side I would look to the 4870. Both scanners have Digital
Ice.

I own the 3200. It does not come with Digital Ice. There is no true
dust removal option with this scanner. Epson and Silverfast software
do offer a dust controle options but it's only software based and does
not work very good. If you looking between the 3200 or the 4870 I
would definitly go with the 4870.

Good Luck

 

[Gene]

Greetings,

Basically, I wanted to query folks for their opinion on this matter. I have
read the other threads related to this discussion and it seems entirely
focused on previous 3200 owners trying to upgrade to the 4870. I am looking
for what you would do if had neither or were faced with the decision of
buying one or the other today.

Thanks in advance,
steve

I have the Epson 3170. It is the budget version of the 3200,and costs
$200 or less. I find it a great deal for the money. It is USB
1.1/2.0 only, no Firewire, but it is dual platform, MAC/PC software
included.

When you are finished archiving your slides, you have a great flatbed
scanner. Even if you go for a dedicated film scanner later on...you
still have a fine flatbed.

Adobe Photoshop Elements 2.0 included, but no Silverfast.
3200 dpi 8/16 bit.

I'd call it a Best Buy.

Gene--

 

[Steve Orens]

David -- Thanks for the suggestions.

I have done more research into dedicated film scanners since I started
this quest. The Minolta Scan Dual IV and Scan Elite 5400 have some very
fine features, especially considering their prices.

Has any one used either of these scanners with a Macintosh supporting
the 10.3.x (Panther) OS? Are there any issues?

Owners of either a Dual IV or an Elite 5400, care to post why you
selected one over the other (assuming you had the choice -- I believe
the Dual IV is a new product?)

There is a price difference between the two scanners. The reviews
definitiley favor the 5400 and from reading about it, it certainly seems
like a great film scanner. However, the price of the Dual IV is 1/3 of
the Elite 5400 and I am wondering if the quality of the Dual IV will
surpass my expectations, making it a bargain.

Any Dual IV owners regret not springing for the extra features/quality
of the Elite 5400?

Any 5400 owners regret spending the extra money when the Dual IV would
have been enough?

Thanks in advance for all of the help. I really appreciate the
assistance.

steve

 

[Raphael Bustin]

David -- Thanks for the suggestions.

I have done more research into dedicated film scanners since I started
this quest. The Minolta Scan Dual IV and Scan Elite 5400 have some very
fine features, especially considering their prices.

If you are at all concerned about quality, get the
best film scanner you can afford. The film scanner
is no less critical than the camera and lens used to
capture the image in the first place.

Film scanning is time consuming. I bought my first
film scanner in 1998 and have been through several
upgrades. There was another upgrade when I
began to shoot MF film... and another when I
began to shoot LF. You get the picture.

In almost every case I had to consider whether it
was worth the trouble digging out my old "favorites"
and re-scanning them, and if so, trying to match
the colors and tones I got on the earlier scans.

I would venture that the newest Minolta is getting
95% of the detail that is in your film. I would
further venture that future developments in film
scanners will be few, as digital capture is
rapidly catching up to and overtaking film,
particularly in the smaller formats.

If the film scanner has digital ICE, all the better.
ICE is really marvelous stuff, a huge time-saver.


rafe b.
http://www.terrapinphoto.com

 

[Karl-Heinz Zahorsky]

SILVERFAST SE & Ai support hardware based DUST & SCRATCH REMOVAL in
Perfection 4870

SilverFast SE and Ai 6 for the Epson Perfection 4870 not only has
software based SRD but also fully supports the hardware based ICE dust
and scratch removal.

Read the news here: http://www.silverfast.com/show/news/en.html

or download the demo here:

http://www.silverfast.com/sf-download/demo/en.html

 

[Ralf R. Radermacher]

SilverFast SE and Ai 6 for the Epson Perfection 4870 not only has
software based SRD but also fully supports the hardware based ICE dust
and scratch removal.

So what?

Ralf

 

[Mike Engles]

Actually, no. When I started the investigation, it was pointed out that I
could save a great deal of money buy using one of the better flatbed
scanners instead of a dedicated film scanner. I am not a professional
photographer. I have a finite amount of film/slides. Once I am finished with
them, the flatbed has appeal as document scanner.

I was under the impression that the dedicated film scanners were > $500. Is
this perception correct?

Thanks,
steve

Hello

The Epson 4870 is pretty good. It is certainly good for 35 mm slides up
to 2000DPI. It had ICE and has a choice of USB2 or Firewire.

It is also a very good flatbed, but ICE does not work as well on
pictures.

I have some examples comparing it to a LS50.

http://www.btinternet.com/~mike.engles/mike/compare.jpg
http://www.btinternet.com/~mike.engles/mike/compare2.jpg
http://www.btinternet.com/~mike.engles/mike/compare3.jpg
None of these examples have ICE.

It will be obvious which is which, but in compare 3 I have done some
sharpening to the lower image.
It is slow when using ICE.

Mike Engles