EDN article on Pentium M living room PC

[George Macdonald]

I thought this was interesting: Brian Dipert's "upgrade" from a VIA C3 to a
Pentium M based living room PC for "entertainment" use. Mbrd made by
Lippert - first I've seen of an ITX mbrd.

Rgds, George Macdonald

"Just because they're paranoid doesn't mean you're not psychotic" - Who, me??

 

[The little lost angel]

I thought this was interesting: Brian Dipert's "upgrade" from a VIA C3 to a
Pentium M based living room PC for "entertainment" use. Mbrd made by
Lippert - first I've seen of an ITX mbrd.

What I thought more interesting was the 512MB Warestheurl graphics
card in that system. pPpP

--
L.Angel: I'm looking for web design work.
If you need basic to med complexity webpages at affordable rates, email me
Standard HTML, SHTML, MySQL + PHP or ASP, Javascript.
If you really want, FrontPage & DreamWeaver too.
But keep in mind you pay extra bandwidth for their bloated code

 

[Derek Baker]

I thought this was interesting: Brian Dipert's "upgrade" from a VIA
C3 to a Pentium M based living room PC for "entertainment" use. Mbrd
made by Lippert - first I've seen of an ITX mbrd.

Rgds, George Macdonald

"Just because they're paranoid doesn't mean you're not psychotic" -
Who, me??

Link?

 

[Robert Myers]

Link?

http://www.reed-electronics.com/ednmag/article/CA411162?industryid=2573

I'm puzzled at George's comment denigrating the upgrade as an "upgrade".


I'm also puzzled at what the author really did in his benchmarks with
the Pentium M running at 1GHz. The article doesn't make it clear if or
how the motherboard would allow underclocking the FSB while running RAM
at normal speed.

RM

 

[Nate Edel]

I'm also puzzled at what the author really did in his benchmarks with
the Pentium M running at 1GHz. The article doesn't make it clear if or
how the motherboard would allow underclocking the FSB while running RAM
at normal speed.

Speedstep?

 

[daytripper]

Speedstep?

Gesundheit!

 

[KR Williams]

Gesundheit!

CHOKE! <spit> Damn, it's a good thing this monitor is to be
retired soon! ;-))

 

[George Macdonald]

http://www.reed-electronics.com/ednmag/article/CA411162?industryid=2573

<whacks brow>Thanks Robert - I got it here:
http://www.reed-electronics.com/ednmag/article/CA411162?nid=2016&rid=1660722366
- apparently same article... different ads?

I'm puzzled at George's comment denigrating the upgrade as an "upgrade".

No, no - nothing derisive was meant. Brian didn't actually use the term
upgrade in the main article but it was mentioned in a sidebar - his
"swappped" reflects better that it was a fairly major form of upgrade... I
thought.

I'm also puzzled at what the author really did in his benchmarks with
the Pentium M running at 1GHz. The article doesn't make it clear if or
how the motherboard would allow underclocking the FSB while running RAM
at normal speed.

It's never been clear to me how all that works. I know that I've seen some
weird things with recent Intel-based notebooks, e.g. run with no battery
and it slows down the CPU.

Rgds, George Macdonald

"Just because they're paranoid doesn't mean you're not psychotic" - Who, me??

 

[Robert Myers]

<whacks brow>Thanks Robert - I got it here:
http://www.reed-electronics.com/ednmag/article/CA411162?nid=2016&rid=1660722366
- apparently same article... different ads?

Whose ads and who pays or gets credit for the click. That's
interesting. Totally off the topic of csiphc, but the internet ad
revenue bubble has quietly reinflated itself.

No, no - nothing derisive was meant. Brian didn't actually use the term
upgrade in the main article but it was mentioned in a sidebar - his
"swappped" reflects better that it was a fairly major form of upgrade... I
thought.

Oh, right. Motherboard+CPU=Upgrade. It is an odd use of language.

It's never been clear to me how all that works. I know that I've seen some
weird things with recent Intel-based notebooks, e.g. run with no battery
and it slows down the CPU.

The benchmarks weren't quite what I had expected, and if I didn't really
understand how they were acquired, it didn't seem worth a whole lot
trouble to try to understand them.

RM

 

[George Macdonald]

Whose ads and who pays or gets credit for the click. That's
interesting. Totally off the topic of csiphc, but the internet ad
revenue bubble has quietly reinflated itself.

I assume Reed Publishing gets the credit - the ads seem to be just targeted
to a slightly different audience. I got my URL through my subscription to
the Electroncs News daily e-mail, which includes an optional monthly EDN
newsletter, so I guess they charge for that ad based on that list.

Right about the ad revenue bubble. I'd think Macromedia must be doing
quite well just now with all the Flash crap we have to endure. Funny - I
got ADSL a little under a year ago and now I need a faster computer to cope
with things.

Oh, right. Motherboard+CPU=Upgrade. It is an odd use of language.

Whatever<shrug> What intrigued me was that it corresponded with what
people have been saying here about Intel's odd reticence to market the
Pentium M as another CPU. Maybe it's just us geeks but then again it could
be an oversight by their Market Research.

Rgds, George Macdonald

"Just because they're paranoid doesn't mean you're not psychotic" - Who, me??

 

[Robert Myers]

George Macdonald wrote:

Right about the ad revenue bubble. I'd think Macromedia must be doing
quite well just now with all the Flash crap we have to endure.

It doesn't appeal that things like Flash ads are good for business? I'm
looking at how slick they are and the fact that first line talent went
into some of them.

Funny - I
got ADSL a little under a year ago and now I need a faster computer to cope
with things.

That's plainly good for the industry, no? I don't think the logic that
fuelled the internet bubble as driven by ad revenue was completely
wrong. The "everything is free, you just have to look at our ads,"
model was wrong, but the idea that the internet would have gigantic
implications for how people live and do business wasn't. It just wasn't
going to happen overnight then, and it isn't going to happen overnight now.

Whatever<shrug> What intrigued me was that it corresponded with what
people have been saying here about Intel's odd reticence to market the
Pentium M as another CPU. Maybe it's just us geeks but then again it could
be an oversight by their Market Research.

Quite the opposite, I think. That's the point I was trying to make in
the "Intel follows the revenue" post. Intel wants to keep a brand
premium on "Centrino(tm)." Centrino = Pentium M + 855 chipset + not
much more, and you can get the same extra functionality as the "not much
more" with a PCI plugin.

Intel doesn't want people thinking "I want a Pentium M". They want
people thinking "I want a Centrino" and willing (subconsciouly or
otherwise) to pay the premium. A separate rationale is that there are
no tables comparing "Centrino" to any chip that AMD makes because
Centrino isn't a chip.

Marketing Pentium M on its own would have focused potential buyers on
things that Intel marketing shouldn't want them thinking about. Now
that Intel has muddied the waters with mind-scrambling model numbers,
they don't have to worry about giving people the seditious idea that
what they should want is Pentium M and to pay a price for it based on a
straight-up price/performance comparison with AMD.

RM

 

[Tony Hill]

I assume Reed Publishing gets the credit - the ads seem to be just targeted
to a slightly different audience. I got my URL through my subscription to
the Electroncs News daily e-mail, which includes an optional monthly EDN
newsletter, so I guess they charge for that ad based on that list.

Right about the ad revenue bubble. I'd think Macromedia must be doing
quite well just now with all the Flash crap we have to endure. Funny - I
got ADSL a little under a year ago and now I need a faster computer to cope
with things.

Huh? Flash ads? I haven't seen any of those in months! Not since I
installed Firefox and the Flash Click-to-play extension! :>

Seriously though, Flash ads were a MAJOR pain in the ass, some were
getting even more annoying that pop-up ads. There were some that were
using 50% or more of my CPU time (on an AthlonXP 1700+) just to
display a small flash banner ad! That sort of thing was the final
straw.

I think the Flash-ad thing might be shooting itself in the foot in the
same way that pop-up/pop-under ads have. Already virtually every
browser in the world implements pop-up blocking. Only Internet
Explorer is still, but it's been on the distant trailing edge of
browser technology for 2 or 3 years now, and even that will implement
pop-up blocking as part of WinXP SP2. Flash blocking is just starting
to appear now, but with the way things are going I think most users
will be blocking the adds in a couple of years time.

Anyway, enough of my off-topic rant for now :>

 

[George Macdonald]

Huh? Flash ads? I haven't seen any of those in months! Not since I
installed Firefox and the Flash Click-to-play extension! :>

I'm still on Mozilla 1.4.1.

Seriously though, Flash ads were a MAJOR pain in the ass, some were
getting even more annoying that pop-up ads. There were some that were
using 50% or more of my CPU time (on an AthlonXP 1700+) just to
display a small flash banner ad! That sort of thing was the final
straw.

Yep, there's one HP Flash job in particular I keep coming across at Yahoo
which pegs my poor old P3/500 to the point that just scrolling gets very
jerky.

I think the Flash-ad thing might be shooting itself in the foot in the
same way that pop-up/pop-under ads have. Already virtually every
browser in the world implements pop-up blocking. Only Internet
Explorer is still, but it's been on the distant trailing edge of
browser technology for 2 or 3 years now, and even that will implement
pop-up blocking as part of WinXP SP2. Flash blocking is just starting
to appear now, but with the way things are going I think most users
will be blocking the adds in a couple of years time.

Pop-up blocking is nice but you have to also know which web sites you visit
require it... like some of the banks' on-line banking services. I have the
Mozilla Prefbar which has a "Kill Flash" but unfortunately it also kills
copy/paste.

Rgds, George Macdonald

"Just because they're paranoid doesn't mean you're not psychotic" - Who, me??

 

[George Macdonald]

George Macdonald wrote:



It doesn't appeal that things like Flash ads are good for business? I'm
looking at how slick they are and the fact that first line talent went
into some of them.

Yeah, yeah but they *are* bloody annoying.

That's plainly good for the industry, no? I don't think the logic that
fuelled the internet bubble as driven by ad revenue was completely
wrong. The "everything is free, you just have to look at our ads,"
model was wrong, but the idea that the internet would have gigantic
implications for how people live and do business wasn't. It just wasn't
going to happen overnight then, and it isn't going to happen overnight now.

Hmm - OK, good for the industry but in a kinda contrived artificial way.
It kinda confirms my contention for a while no though, that the computer
industry was being hurt by the Telcos holding back on broadband access. I
still think it's scandalous that the FCC has approved their bundling of ISP
services along with their "wires". I want to choose my ISP.

Quite the opposite, I think. That's the point I was trying to make in
the "Intel follows the revenue" post. Intel wants to keep a brand
premium on "Centrino(tm)." Centrino = Pentium M + 855 chipset + not
much more, and you can get the same extra functionality as the "not much
more" with a PCI plugin.

Intel doesn't want people thinking "I want a Pentium M". They want
people thinking "I want a Centrino" and willing (subconsciouly or
otherwise) to pay the premium. A separate rationale is that there are
no tables comparing "Centrino" to any chip that AMD makes because
Centrino isn't a chip.

It's still a a mistake, IMO, to limit it to notebooks though.

Rgds, George Macdonald

"Just because they're paranoid doesn't mean you're not psychotic" - Who, me??

 

[Tony Hill]

I'm still on Mozilla 1.4.1.

Time to get with the times there George! :>

Yep, there's one HP Flash job in particular I keep coming across at Yahoo
which pegs my poor old P3/500 to the point that just scrolling gets very
jerky.

I think that ad might actually have been the final straw for me too.
I know it was an ad I used to come across on Yahoo that finally did
it. Ohh, that and a couple times I tried playing a game with a
browser window minimized in the background and was yanking my hair out
trying to figure out why my frame rates were abysmal all of a sudden,
only to find some stupid flash ad munching away CPU time.

Pop-up blocking is nice but you have to also know which web sites you visit
require it... like some of the banks' on-line banking services.

I've actually found extremely few sites that actually make use of
unrequested pop-ups for anything too useful. Most of the cases I have
encountered have been a sort of one-time deal, so I haven't really
worried too much. However there are a couple of extensions for
Firebird that do allow you to selectively enable pop-ups (eg I think
for one of them you will allow pop-ups any time your holding down the
shift key).

I have the
Mozilla Prefbar which has a "Kill Flash" but unfortunately it also kills
copy/paste.

Hmm.. that's an odd one!

 

[George Macdonald]

Time to get with the times there George! :>

Hey it works for me and is dated 20031008. After suffering with the GDI
resource leak bug, http://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=204374 and
following its never-ending history, I'm not confident about moving umm,
forward

I think that ad might actually have been the final straw for me too.
I know it was an ad I used to come across on Yahoo that finally did
it. Ohh, that and a couple times I tried playing a game with a
browser window minimized in the background and was yanking my hair out
trying to figure out why my frame rates were abysmal all of a sudden,
only to find some stupid flash ad munching away CPU time.

IIRC the ad had a city dusk skyline - not much action but it bogged the
CPU.

I've actually found extremely few sites that actually make use of
unrequested pop-ups for anything too useful. Most of the cases I have
encountered have been a sort of one-time deal, so I haven't really
worried too much. However there are a couple of extensions for
Firebird that do allow you to selectively enable pop-ups (eg I think
for one of them you will allow pop-ups any time your holding down the
shift key).

I find the Mozilla selective pop-up by Web site works fine and is easy to
manage.

Hmm.. that's an odd one!

Yes and not very glamorous, so nobody seems to be paying attention - still
marked as "Leave as New": http://bugzilla.mozdev.org/show_bug.cgi?id=4890.

Rgds, George Macdonald

"Just because they're paranoid doesn't mean you're not psychotic" - Who, me??

 

[Rob Stow]

Rather than using Mozilla, I use TBird for mail/news and FBird
for browsing. For FBird I installed the FlashBlock extension
which seems to work as advertised. It replaces each bit of
FlashCrap with a "play" icon so I only see FlashCrap when I
have reason to suspect it has actual content - such as the
graphs at AnandTech.

Now if only someone would make an extension like that for
animated GIFs. In the mean time I use the "Nuke Anything"
extension - I can right click on any annoying animations
and select "Remove this Object". Presto - gone.