DVD as El Torito boot media

[GAG]

Has anyone been successful in creating large (1 to 2GB) XP/e boot
partitions on DVD? I've seen a few postings on the topic but no one
ever reporting success. My need is a 2GB boot partition.

So far:
* Can reliably build El Torito CD's (~625MB) w/ HD2ISO & Nero burn..
* Can reliably build El Torito DVD's (~625MB) w/ HD2ISO & Nero burn.
* Nero will create bootable DVD's with large boot partition but null
disk signature.
* Using a 625MB disk prepared for burning, having Nero generate a
bootable ISO file, then using a Hex editor to insert the ELTO disk
signature results in a CD that looks good as 1st boot El Torito during
FBA on a new disk. But EWF isn't happy if CD is booted. The boot
fails when it can't "write" registry changes. Using HD2ISO instead on
original disk results in good bootable CD.

I think I'm looking for a modified HD2ISO or an alternative to Nero
that can create an XP/e bootable image (like HD2ISO) and that can
create large partition booable DVD's (like Nero).

As an aside, many general thanks to the regulars and others in this
group who so selflessly help so many confused developers. Reading
advice in this group helped me find the solution to my Intel 82865
chipset problem, how to make components for my Gforce video and
Promise 133 controller, how to reliably use EWF & build El Torito
CD's, and other general good advice. Bravo!

Greg G.

 

[Slobodan Brcin \(eMVP\)]

Hi GAG,

Is it a must that OS partition be larger than 600 MB?

You can always move Program Files folder and other non Windows programs to second El-torito partition or even better to regular DVD
file session.
You would have something like OS is located on El-torito and during the burn it would be in ISO file.
And you would use Nero for Instance to burn both ISO and selected content from second HDD partition to DVD file section.

I hope that this make some sense.

Best regards,
Slobodan

 

[GregG]

Using a 2nd large partition is my fallback approach if I can't find a
way to use a large boot partition. Adding a large D drive should work
for a project coming up but the appplication I'm working with
currently wants to see significant free space on the boot drive, at
least 1GB or more.

Any thoughts on why using HD2ISO works fine but using Nero to create
an ISO then altering disk signature to ELTO doesn't. Is it possible
Nero's hard disk emulation is incompatible with HD2ISO's?

Thanks!

 

[Guest]

Hi Slobodan,
I have an ISO image and I used Nero 6 to burn and left the "Finalize CD
(No futher writting possible)" UNCHECK, which allows me to later write
CD_DATA into DVD, but after I burnt some more data to the DVD and closed it.
The CD did not boot any more and it looks like the "El Torito" gone
Is there any ideas? or any better way to have El Torito and Data into one
DVD or CD?
Thanks in advance
Anthony

 

[Slobodan Brcin \(eMVP\)]

Hi Anthony,

You have El-torito ISO image in file, right.
You have files in some folder that you want to be seen as regular CD data.

Well use empty CD/DVD and tell Nero to burn both ISO and files at the same time.

Best regards,
Slobodan

 

[Guest]

Hello Slobodan,
Thanks for your tips, but by doing what you suggested I could not boot
from the CD/DVD, what I want is to boot from El torito and have some data in
the Same CD/DVD, ibut f I burnt ISO image only there is no options (Nero or
Roxio) for me to to put my DATA into CD/DVD.
Is there any way to partition CD/DVD? like first parttion is El Torito and
the second is Data?
Thanks

 

[Slobodan Brcin \(eMVP\)]

Hi Anthony,

How exactly did you do what I suggested? If you was able to do what I proposed then you would not ask this question.

Anyhow per specs you can have El-torito image and separate (normal CD) data on the same medium, since they are using different
tables to describe way to access data on CD.

On El-torito section you can have as many partitions as you would like. (Same limitations as HDD)
On CD section you can have only one view and access data as normal CD.

I don't know if you can make any sense from this, but bottom line is that with right CD Burn tools/versions this can be done.

Best regards,
Slobodan

 

[GregG]

Anthony,
I've had the same experience as you in that using Nero to create a new
bootable CD (or DVD), not just burning the output from HD2ISO fails
midway booting with errors suggesting EWF didn't start correctly.
Rebuilding the original HD and using the CD during FBA shows that the
disk signature of the CD is zeros, not ELTO. I found the spot in the
ISO that let me change the disk signature with a hex editor and now
EWF likes the CD during an FBA but the CD still fails booting with
registry write failures. Using HD2ISO instead to prepare the image
creates a good boot CD.

I'm using Nero 5 which doesn't let me keep the DVD open when burning a
HD2ISO image but will pick up a copy of Nero 6 to see if I have better
luck with it.

Failing that, can someone suggest a good tool that would let me add
files to an ISO image. That way I can start with HD2ISO then expand
the image with 2nd partition data. MagicISO claims to do this but I
wasn't very successful.

Finally, since Nero wants to use zero's for the disk signature, might
it work to set EWF to expect zero's instead of ELTO? Are any other
disk devices likely to have zeros for a signature? I'm not at work so
can't try it before suggesting it.

GregG

 

[Slobodan Brcin \(eMVP\)]

Any reason why you don't want to use hd2iso. (Please be aware only that is can work with first partition on disk only)

With hd2iso.exe you will get El-torito ISO file.
With Nero or some other burning utility you select CD boot project.
Set ISO file to be placed at the beginning of the disk, and don't use advanced emulation options.
In next step select files that you want to be recorder on disk.
Burn it and you will have "two partitions".

Best regards,
Slobodan

 

[GregG]

Slobodan,

I enjoy reading your responses to others as they are usually very
direct to the point solutions. But must admit I'm baffled by what
you're saying and what I see with Nero 6.

The reason for an alternative to HD2ISO is I want a 2GB boot
partition. Failing that, starting with the ISO from HD2ISO may work
if I can add a 2GB "CD" partition. However, since EWF will see it as
removable, it will have to be read-only.

Wrt the following, if I use my post-ETPREP 625MB disk partition with
HD2ISO and use Nero to simply burn, I end up reliably with bootable
CD's. Not big enough, no 2nd partition, but bootable.

Starting a new bootable CD in Nero 6, I must first either choose a
disk (or floppy) partition or disk image (*.IMA) to use for the
bootable partition. Also I can default to harddrive emultation (or
select no emulation for Linux, etc. file structures.) Afterwards
files & folders can be added to form the second "CD" partition.

Selecting my hard drive (post-ETPREP) results in a CD that fails when
XP/e attempts to write to the registry (EWF fails or doesn't start).
I don't have a method to extract the boot disk image from a HD2ISO so
can't use the disk image option.

Alternatively, if I select to burn an image, I can select the ISO from
HD2ISO but leave if open. Then a second session could be added to
create the second partition. But as was Anthony's experience, that
also fails during boot.

So I'm still looking for an alternative to HD2ISO or a modified HD2ISO
or some way to use Nero (or a competitor) and end up with an image
that's XP/e bootable.

thanks for your attention to my long reply,
GregG

 

[Slobodan Brcin \(eMVP\)]

Hi Greg,

Assuming that it is acceptable to you to have ~600MB XPe El-torito disk + ~3GB CD Partition on same medium, then try to follow:

1. Open NERO.
2. Select DVD.
3. Data->Make Bootable Disk
4. Check Image file and browse path to Post FBA El-torito ISO file created by hd2iso.
5. Leave expert setting disabled.
6. Press New.
7. Now you should be able to browse and add any non XPe files that you want. And on lower usage bar you should see some space
already used by ISO file.
8. When you are done with adding files burn this image.

When you follow this guide lines can you describe me the problems that you see and when you see them.
Error messages, what ever useful info that you can get.

Best regards,
Slobodan

 

[Guest]

Hi Slobodan,
I followed your instruction, everything seem right but the machine failed
to boot and the error message like this
"Boot and select proper Boot device. Insert Boot media in selected Boot
device and press a key"
Is there any ideas?
Thanks
Anthony

 

[Slobodan Brcin \(eMVP\)]

Hi Anthony,

Actually I have never tried using this exact procedure.
I'm using my custom ISO file instead of file created by hd2iso.exe. But everything should work when you use image created by hd2iso.

I'm not familiar with error you mentioned.
Can you place only ntldr. and following boot.ini on your disk partition without XPe image.

[boot loader]
timeout=50
default=multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINDOWS
[operating systems]
multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINDOWS="Microsoft Windows XPe Test1" /fastdetect
multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINDOWS="Microsoft Windows XPe Test2" /fastdetect

If it work you should be able to see for 50 seconds two choices shown by ntldr.
If you can see that then we can boot your systems with XPe on it.

Best regards,
Slobodan

 

[Guest]

Hi Slobodan,
I. First, I could not view any thing in El Torito image that why I don't
know what's going on inside El Torio such as boot.ini, ntldr. ...
II. Second, I tried to copy boot.ini and ntldr., and modified boot.ini
file then I am able to see the 50 second count down
III. If I did
1. Open NERO.
2. Select DVD.
3. Data->Make Bootable Disk
4. Check Image file and browse path to Post FBA El-torito ISO file
created by hd2iso.
5. Leave expert setting disabled.
6. Press New.
7. Without adding any files, just want to boot from El Torito only
8. When you are done with adding files burn this image.
9. Then I still can not boot
IV. If I did Nero, FILE->OPEN->Select ISO file->Burn, then I am able to
boot as normal, but then I added more data into, I still got the same error
message

Please help
Thanks,
Anthony

Hi Anthony,

Actually I have never tried using this exact procedure.
I'm using my custom ISO file instead of file created by hd2iso.exe. But everything should work when you use image created by hd2iso.

I'm not familiar with error you mentioned.
Can you place only ntldr. and following boot.ini on your disk partition without XPe image.

[boot loader]
timeout=50
default=multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINDOWS
[operating systems]
multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINDOWS="Microsoft Windows XPe Test1" /fastdetect
multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINDOWS="Microsoft Windows XPe Test2" /fastdetect

If it work you should be able to see for 50 seconds two choices shown by ntldr.
If you can see that then we can boot your systems with XPe on it.

Best regards,
Slobodan

Hi Slobodan,
I followed your instruction, everything seem right but the machine failed
to boot and the error message like this
"Boot and select proper Boot device. Insert Boot media in selected Boot
device and press a key"
Is there any ideas?
Thanks
Anthony

 

[Slobodan Brcin \(eMVP\)]

Sorry for this it appear that it won't work as easy as I thought.

I just tried these steps my self and first thing is that Step 4 want IMA file (this file start with boot record) instead of ISO
file.
I converted data to IMA file and it did not worked. I found IMA file from one of the old project and it did not worked either. I
have no idea what happened with Nero or my computers so this image stopped working but I can't do anything to diagnose it right now
:-(

Unfortunately bottom line is that you will probably have to scrap my suggestion and start looking for some other solution to this
problem

Best regards,
Slobodan

Hi Slobodan,
I. First, I could not view any thing in El Torito image that why I don't
know what's going on inside El Torio such as boot.ini, ntldr. ...
II. Second, I tried to copy boot.ini and ntldr., and modified boot.ini
file then I am able to see the 50 second count down
III. If I did
1. Open NERO.
2. Select DVD.
3. Data->Make Bootable Disk
4. Check Image file and browse path to Post FBA El-torito ISO file
created by hd2iso.
5. Leave expert setting disabled.
6. Press New.
7. Without adding any files, just want to boot from El Torito only
8. When you are done with adding files burn this image.
9. Then I still can not boot
IV. If I did Nero, FILE->OPEN->Select ISO file->Burn, then I am able to
boot as normal, but then I added more data into, I still got the same error
message

Please help
Thanks,
Anthony

Hi Anthony,

Actually I have never tried using this exact procedure.
I'm using my custom ISO file instead of file created by hd2iso.exe. But everything should work when you use image created by hd2iso.

I'm not familiar with error you mentioned.
Can you place only ntldr. and following boot.ini on your disk partition without XPe image.

[boot loader]
timeout=50
default=multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINDOWS
[operating systems]
multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINDOWS="Microsoft Windows XPe Test1" /fastdetect
multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINDOWS="Microsoft Windows XPe Test2" /fastdetect

If it work you should be able to see for 50 seconds two choices shown by ntldr.
If you can see that then we can boot your systems with XPe on it.

Best regards,
Slobodan

Hi Slobodan,
I followed your instruction, everything seem right but the machine failed
to boot and the error message like this
"Boot and select proper Boot device. Insert Boot media in selected Boot
device and press a key"
Is there any ideas?
Thanks
Anthony

:

Hi Greg,

Assuming that it is acceptable to you to have ~600MB XPe El-torito disk + ~3GB CD Partition on same medium, then try to follow:

1. Open NERO.
2. Select DVD.
3. Data->Make Bootable Disk
4. Check Image file and browse path to Post FBA El-torito ISO file created by hd2iso.
5. Leave expert setting disabled.
6. Press New.
7. Now you should be able to browse and add any non XPe files that you want. And on lower usage bar you should see some space
already used by ISO file.
8. When you are done with adding files burn this image.

When you follow this guide lines can you describe me the problems that you see and when you see them.
Error messages, what ever useful info that you can get.

Best regards,
Slobodan


Slobodan,

I enjoy reading your responses to others as they are usually very
direct to the point solutions. But must admit I'm baffled by what
you're saying and what I see with Nero 6.

The reason for an alternative to HD2ISO is I want a 2GB boot
partition. Failing that, starting with the ISO from HD2ISO may work
if I can add a 2GB "CD" partition. However, since EWF will see it as
removable, it will have to be read-only.

Wrt the following, if I use my post-ETPREP 625MB disk partition with
HD2ISO and use Nero to simply burn, I end up reliably with bootable
CD's. Not big enough, no 2nd partition, but bootable.

Starting a new bootable CD in Nero 6, I must first either choose a
disk (or floppy) partition or disk image (*.IMA) to use for the
bootable partition. Also I can default to harddrive emultation (or
select no emulation for Linux, etc. file structures.) Afterwards
files & folders can be added to form the second "CD" partition.

Selecting my hard drive (post-ETPREP) results in a CD that fails when
XP/e attempts to write to the registry (EWF fails or doesn't start).
I don't have a method to extract the boot disk image from a HD2ISO so
can't use the disk image option.

Alternatively, if I select to burn an image, I can select the ISO from
HD2ISO but leave if open. Then a second session could be added to
create the second partition. But as was Anthony's experience, that
also fails during boot.

So I'm still looking for an alternative to HD2ISO or a modified HD2ISO
or some way to use Nero (or a competitor) and end up with an image
that's XP/e bootable.

thanks for your attention to my long reply,
GregG


On Tue, 14 Sep 2004 12:43:07 +0200, "Slobodan Brcin \(eMVP\)"

Any reason why you don't want to use hd2iso. (Please be aware only that is can work with first partition on disk only)

With hd2iso.exe you will get El-torito ISO file.
With Nero or some other burning utility you select CD boot project.
Set ISO file to be placed at the beginning of the disk, and don't use advanced emulation options.
In next step select files that you want to be recorder on disk.
Burn it and you will have "two partitions".

Best regards,
Slobodan

 

[GregG]

Slobodan,

Thanks for sticking in with Anthony & me on this. I had the same
experience as Anthony. Isn't the reason for failure here that Nero is
looking for a disk image file (*.IMA)? The output of HD2ISO is an ISO
file file which contains a disk image surrounded by other structures.

I guess a basic question for you or some kindly MS person is whether
the ISO from HD2ISO has more peculiar elements. Already we know it
allows setting of the image disk signature where Nero sets it to
zero's.

Finally tomorrow I will be able to devote some real time to this
project. My current hope is to tell EWF to look for a disk signature
of zero's. Then use Nero alone for 1st boot CD and final post-ETPREP
CD. This may work unless HD2ISO adds other unknown elements to the
ISO file it creates.

Will let you both know the results.
GregG

 

[Slobodan Brcin \(eMVP\)]

Hi Greg,

Check the new thread that I have created with description regarding how to create working El-torito image from Nero without hd2iso.
Last night I have created and tried this procedure and it is working.

Please let us continue discussion there.

Best regards,
Slobodan