DO NOT INSTALL SP 2

  • Thread starter Thread starter Rod P.
  • Start date Start date
Unless you are a computer programmer. I have had nothing
but problems since installing SP 2

Yes, you see lots of folks who complain loudly about all their woes
after they installed SP2. What you don't hear are the vast majority
of those who have installed it with zero problems. They are the huge,
silent majority.

But, since they are quiet, all you hear is the bad stuff and assume
that's all there is.

Moo. Moo. Moo.
 
NobodyMan said:
Said "radical" changes were freely available to all those who made
those apps in the first place. Blame them for not updating their
software prior to final release.
Those radical changes would not have been necessary to implement in of
all things a service pack had M$ built the operating system properly in
the first place.

--
hermes
DRM sux! Treacherous Computing kills our virtual civil liberties!
http://protectfreedom.tripod.com/index.html
http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~rja14/tcpa-faq.html
http://anti-dmca.org/
http://www.eff.org/IP/DMCA/unintended_consequences.php

Windows XP crashed.
I am the Blue Screen of Death.
No one hears your screams
 
Jupiter said:
If that is what you think,
At least it is consistent with most of your other replies.

However most of those applications are not broke and you would
discover that bit of truth if you ventured to reality for a change.
Oh yes, your reality which is looking at the computing world through
rosey colored M$ glasses. Right.

--
hermes
DRM sux! Treacherous Computing kills our virtual civil liberties!
http://protectfreedom.tripod.com/index.html
http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~rja14/tcpa-faq.html
http://anti-dmca.org/
http://www.eff.org/IP/DMCA/unintended_consequences.php

Windows XP crashed.
I am the Blue Screen of Death.
No one hears your screams
 
NobodyMan said:
Yes, you see lots of folks who complain loudly about all their woes
after they installed SP2. What you don't hear are the vast majority
of those who have installed it with zero problems. They are the huge,
silent majority.

But, since they are quiet, all you hear is the bad stuff and assume
that's all there is.

Moo. Moo. Moo.
Wow, you imitate the sounds of the M$ ca$h cow very well. They should
give you a gold star for that. Yes, I am one of the more conservative
users who will prefer to wait a bit with new updates and let the more
eager try them out first and find the bugs. The number of updates that
come out which have bugs varies and not all of them cause problems. But
there is nothing wrong with being conservative with one's computer if
one so chooses.

--
hermes
DRM sux! Treacherous Computing kills our virtual civil liberties!
http://protectfreedom.tripod.com/index.html
http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~rja14/tcpa-faq.html
http://anti-dmca.org/
http://www.eff.org/IP/DMCA/unintended_consequences.php

Windows XP crashed.
I am the Blue Screen of Death.
No one hears your screams
 
snip
Wow, you imitate the sounds of the M$ ca$h cow very well. They should
give you a gold star for that. Yes, I am one of the more conservative
users who will prefer to wait a bit with new updates and let the more
eager try them out first and find the bugs. The number of updates that
come out which have bugs varies and not all of them cause problems. But
there is nothing wrong with being conservative with one's computer if one
so chooses.


Seems like you are changing your tune.

I thought from your previous post you were the 'expert' on SP2 and its
'deficiencies. Seems that you know nothing about it. Figures!
 
hermes said:
Wow, you imitate the sounds of the M$ ca$h cow very well. They should
give you a gold star for that. Yes, I am one of the more conservative
users who will prefer to wait a bit with new updates and let the more
eager try them out first and find the bugs. The number of updates that
come out which have bugs varies and not all of them cause problems. But
there is nothing wrong with being conservative with one's computer if
one so chooses.

I'm waiting for the updates to SP 2 before I install it.

Alias
 
NobodyMan said:
A better choice would be to stop the damaging software from ever
getting on the computer in the first place. No firewall will ever
replace computer user common sense!

Unfotunately, "computer user common sense" is an oxymoron more often
than not.

Steve
 
-----Original Message-----

snip



Seems like you are changing your tune.

I thought from your previous post you were the 'expert' on SP2 and its
'deficiencies. Seems that you know nothing about it. Figures!

Based on what did you make this assumption about expertise?
 
If you think you can write better code than the MS engineers, then by all
means do so. Otherwise, STFU.

Bobby
 
NoNoBadDog! said:
If you think you can write better code than the MS engineers, then by all
means do so. Otherwise, STFU.

Bobby
Are you an equal opportunity ar$ehole, or are you just going to pick on
the people who's opinion(s) differ from yours?

--
hermes
DRM sux! Treacherous Computing kills our virtual civil liberties!
http://protectfreedom.tripod.com/index.html
http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~rja14/tcpa-faq.html
http://anti-dmca.org/
http://www.eff.org/IP/DMCA/unintended_consequences.php

Windows XP crashed.
I am the Blue Screen of Death.
No one hears your screams
 
Wow, you imitate the sounds of the M$ ca$h cow very well. They should
give you a gold star for that. Yes, I am one of the more conservative
users who will prefer to wait a bit with new updates and let the more
eager try them out first and find the bugs. The number of updates that
come out which have bugs varies and not all of them cause problems. But
there is nothing wrong with being conservative with one's computer if
one so chooses.

Who ever said that everybody needed to rush out and install this
immediately. Wait...........OK, after looking over this entire
thread, I see it was.......nobody. I never implied that either, yet
you berate me.

All I stated was you don't hear those with no problems saying how
great it is. They are content, happy, and quiet. All you hear is the
vocal few who complain the end is coming.

If I listened to that, I would have sold all my possessions and given
up years ago, when I first saw an old guy holding up the sign saying
"The End of the World is Here" a long time ago.

Lighten up.
 
I have to agree. I had SP2 installed and it gave me
nothing but errors. Many many illegal operations that I
have not had with SP1. I tried uninstalling SP2 but it
just crashed my computer and I had to backup everything
on my harddrive and reinstall XP. I am not going to
install SP2 again. I am content with SP1.

That sort of mileage suggests all may not be well with the PC at a
hardware level, or that malware was active. The latter is less likely
to give that pattern exactly.

http://cquirke.mvps.org/pccrisis.htm and
http://cquirke.mvps.org/9x/bthink.htm refer.

As well as testing RAM, HD and eyeballing fans, look also at your
motherboard's electrolytic capacitors. If any are bulging or leaking,
you can expect random lockups and resets etc.

SP2 is a lot of code, and if installed through the lens of wobbly
hardware, a reliability downturn can be expected. Same may be
expected to apply to your new build from scratch, though it sounds
SF,SG. If you find you start getting errors etc. as time goes by,
then do the hardware checks (if you skipped them for now).


--------------- ----- ---- --- -- - - -
Never turn your back on an installer program
 
On Thu, 19 Aug 2004 12:05:13 -0400, "Jack B Nimble"
If you don't want it on, turn it off. How hard is that?

In my case, it was pretty hard...
- normal mode hard locks before desktop
- same when trying "last known good"
- same on trying Safe Mode (GUI or Cmd.exe-only)
- RC booted from HD resets on entering installation
- XP CD boot black-screens unless HD is disconnected
....meaning there's nowhere I can SR from, or even "just reinstall
Windows", let alone "turn it off" (i.e. uninstall SP2).

The trick was to disable L1 and L2 cache in CMOS setup. After this, I
could run XP and from there, uninstall SP2. Took about 5 hours, on a
new Celeron Prescott 2.66GHz on 875P with 512M RAM.

The phrase YMMV applies here ;-P


------------ ----- ---- --- -- - - - -
The most accurate diagnostic instrument
in medicine is the Retrospectoscope
 
On Thu, 19 Aug 2004 14:53:31 -0600, "Jupiter Jones [MVP]"
Then I hope you are checking.
Many of the issues involve 3rd parties.
It is up to them and not Microsoft to solve issues with their
software. Most reported issues have already been resolved.

Depends. Seems as if mileage groups as:

1) Installation of death

Unlikely outcome, but has affected some 865/875 systems at least,
including my 875P and Cari's 865xx. She came up with the way out;
disable L1 and L2 cache, run XP, uninstall SP2, enable L1 and L2 cache
again. Took about 5 hours, but worked.

While you may consider this a 3rd-party problem, it is nonetheless a
clash between the OS and the system level that the OS is expected to
conform to. So no, I do not expect the hardware vendors to fix this
on MS's behalf; I expect the OS to work on the hardware.

2) Installs fine, some apps break

I'd expect this to be common. Apps that break may do so because they
do things that MS formerly encouraged, but now (rightly, IMO) consider
to be "unsafe hex". These are things like peer-to-peer file sharers
etc. that expect external PCs to initiate network traffic.

Another class of apps that break, do so because they may get tangled
up with similar functionalities in SP2, e.g. firewalls.

Several antivirus apps are listed as "challenged", and I suspect it's
usually one of two issues. Some may not be detected by the Security
Center, which may then squawk there's no av in place. This is a
relatively trivial issue, but because it involved retail-monster
Norton AV, we have all got to hear about it.

More significant are avs that can no longer do resident scanning, and
I suspect this may be to do with NX (No eXecute) that AMD64 supports.
As a way of detecting encrypted/polymorphic viruses, an av may copy
file code into its own memory and emulate it there; if that is
executing code in a data area, SP2's NX awareness will bite.

Other apps unrelated to firewalls, av, and networking, may also break
for various reasons. I dunno why Nero broke, but I can expect apps
that followed MS advice to leverage IE as the UI will break, given
these apps are likely to rely on lax "My Computer" zone security.
Several accounting apps such as QuickBooks may fail here.

Yes, I'd expect these 3rd-party issues to be fixed by the 3rd-parties,
assuming a simple set of manual settings doesn't do the job. Still,
the big picture is reason to be cautious about advocating blind SP2
deployment; an installation may be safer with working av than with SP2
and an av that is no longer scanning events in real time.

3) Installs fine, no problems

This is likely the most common mileage, but having 99% of users tell
you they are fine does nothing to help the 1% who are not.

SP2 is almost a new OS, and I'm wondering whether some sort of
"designed for SP2" logo campaign may be appropriate :-)


-------------------- ----- ---- --- -- - - - -
Reality is that which, when you stop believing
in it, does not go away (PKD)
 
With a good virus checker that is sufficient.

Nonsense, in that you have to plan what happens WHEN (not if) your av
drops the ball. Why would the av drop the ball?
- "Not My Problem"; commercial malware
- the Day Zero effect, i.e. too new for the av to detect
- some other malware nuked the av and swung the door open
- least likely; a particular malware the av should nab, and doesn't
Just ASK MS!

HAHAHA!! But seriously, folks...
Any extra and unneeded programs for basic OS and Inet functionality
is NEVER wanted or needed.

Well, that's one of the things I like about SP2. It sets about
walling out a bunch of risky functionalities that most are better off
without, e.g. network sessions initiated by external systems.

Believe me, if MS went further and ripped out more
corporate-orientated trash that stand-alone consumers need like a hole
in the head, I'd be even happier. I'd like to see XP offer NO
opportunities to use RPC, DCOM or "admin shares".

As it is, even SP2's relatively mild curbs on what XP allows arbitrary
systems to do on the PC have been enough to break quite a few things,
generating these "do not install SP2!" threads. Instructive.

Moral: Careful what you create, you may have to live with it forever.


------------ ----- --- -- - - - -
Drugs are usually safe. Inject? (Y/n)
 
A better choice would be to stop the damaging software from ever
getting on the computer in the first place. No firewall will ever
replace computer user common sense!

Actually, firewalls have to replace user common sense all the time.

Every unpatched XP that a firewall protects against Lovesan, Sasser et
al is a case in point... the user's common sense never has a chance to
come into play, thanks to a defecit of clue in the code itself.


------------ ----- ---- --- -- - - - -
The most accurate diagnostic instrument
in medicine is the Retrospectoscope
 
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