Do I need some 2 DIMMs DDR2 memory kits to work fine ?

[Castor Nageur]

Hi all,

I plan to replace my 4x2GB DDR2 memories by some 4x2GB ECC memories (I
had an issue with the non-ECC memory so I now want my system to be
safe with ECC).
My Gigabyte motherboard (GA-P35-DS4 rev 1.1) only supports 8 GB max
dispatched in 4x2GB DIMM (so I suppose I can not plug 2x4GB).

My problem is the following one : if it is quite easy to find some non-
ECC memory kits including 2 DIMM, it is impossible to find some 2x2GB
ECC DDR2 memories kits. So I have to buy each ECC DIMMs separately.

* Is it a problem ?
* Will the coupled DIMMs work fine even if they do not belong to the
same serial ?

Thanks in advance for helping me.

 

[Krypsis]

Hi all,

I plan to replace my 4x2GB DDR2 memories by some 4x2GB ECC memories (I
had an issue with the non-ECC memory so I now want my system to be
safe with ECC).

Are you sure your motherboard supports ECC memory?

My Gigabyte motherboard (GA-P35-DS4 rev 1.1) only supports 8 GB max
dispatched in 4x2GB DIMM (so I suppose I can not plug 2x4GB).
Correct.

My problem is the following one : if it is quite easy to find some non-
ECC memory kits including 2 DIMM, it is impossible to find some 2x2GB
ECC DDR2 memories kits. So I have to buy each ECC DIMMs separately.

* Is it a problem ?
* Will the coupled DIMMs work fine even if they do not belong to the
same serial ?

Thanks in advance for helping me.

I cannot find anywhere in the manual or on the website where ECC memory
even get a mention with respect to your motherboard much less any
references to being supported. I would suggest you check with Gigabyte
before you part with any cash. You could be wasting money.

Krypsis

 

[Pen]

Hi all,

I plan to replace my 4x2GB DDR2 memories by some 4x2GB ECC memories (I
had an issue with the non-ECC memory so I now want my system to be
safe with ECC).
My Gigabyte motherboard (GA-P35-DS4 rev 1.1) only supports 8 GB max
dispatched in 4x2GB DIMM (so I suppose I can not plug 2x4GB).

My problem is the following one : if it is quite easy to find some non-
ECC memory kits including 2 DIMM, it is impossible to find some 2x2GB
ECC DDR2 memories kits. So I have to buy each ECC DIMMs separately.

* Is it a problem ?
* Will the coupled DIMMs work fine even if they do not belong to the
same serial ?

Thanks in advance for helping me.

The Gigabyte site lists only non-ecc memory. Likewise the
Crucial one. Also 2GB is the largest supported memory DIMM
so 4GB is out.

http://download.gigabyte.us/FileList/Memory/motherboard_memory_ga-p35-ds4_2.1.pdf

http://www.crucial.com/store/listparts.aspx?model=GA-P35-DS4&Cat=RAM

 

[Castor Nageur]

On 6/20/2011 9:39 AM, Castor Nageur wrote:

The Gigabyte site lists only non-ecc memory. Likewise the
Crucial one. Also 2GB is the largest supported memory DIMM
so 4GB is out.

http://download.gigabyte.us/FileList/Memory/motherboard_memory_ga-p35...

http://www.crucial.com/store/listparts.aspx?model=GA-P35-DS4&Cat=RAM

Thanks to you both. I read on the web that my mobo chipset (Intel P35)
was not supporting ECC so I forget it.
I also read that old mobos like mine had problems working with 4x2GB
modules.
Some people told that 2x4GB would be better than 4x2GB.

* Where did you read that 2GB was the largest DIMM for my GA-P35-DS4
(except Crucial site does not offer more) ?

 

[Paul]

Are you sure your motherboard supports ECC memory?


I cannot find anywhere in the manual or on the website where ECC memory
even get a mention with respect to your motherboard much less any
references to being supported. I would suggest you check with Gigabyte
before you part with any cash. You could be wasting money.

Krypsis

From memory, I think X38 or X48 chipsets have the *potential* to do
ECC. But won't do it, unless both the wiring and the BIOS support it.
A number of boards using those chipsets, did not document the
ECC status of the design.

So even if you use a chipset with the technical capability, there
are no guarantees.

P35 probably doesn't have ECC. Pg.17 = "Unbuffered, non-ECC DIMMs".
So that suggests the P35 motherboard isn't ECC material.

http://www.intel.com/Assets/PDF/datasheet/316966.pdf

It also mentions "Supports 1-Gb... technologies... for x8".
A 128Mx8 memory chip is a 1Gbit chip. Sixteen of those chips
would give 2GB total per unbuffered DIMM. A 2GB DIMM is likely to be the
largest DIMM supported. So if a 4GB DIMM was installed, chances
are only half of it would register with the BIOS.

*******

With regard to ECC, the situation with AMD processors is much better.
There is still the BIOS issue, but it's easier to make a design
ECC friendly, whereas with Intel desktops, it's harder.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Intel_chipsets

"P35 Bearlake (P+) Parity/ECC = No/No

X38 Bearlake (X) Parity/ECC = No/DDR2 only

X48 Bearlake (X) Parity/ECC = No/DDR2 only

Actually, the ECC status of the last two chipsets is pretty
fuzzy. You really want proof from another motherboard owner,
before buying a board with those chipsets.

I'm typing this reply, on an X48 motherboard with DDR2 slots.
But I've never had ECC DIMMs in it to test. My manual claims
it is an ECC motherboard. Generally, the ECC BIOS settings
on such motherboards, don't become visible until ECC
DIMMs are plugged in. The settings aren't always exposed so
you can see them. And to help matters, while the manual
has pictures of the BIOS screens, there are *no* pictures
of the ECC settings! Pretty hard to prove the thing is
ready for ECC... I'd have to buy ECC DIMMs, plug them in,
and see if anything happens.

Paul

 

[Pen]

Thanks to you both. I read on the web that my mobo chipset (Intel P35)
was not supporting ECC so I forget it.
I also read that old mobos like mine had problems working with 4x2GB
modules.
Some people told that 2x4GB would be better than 4x2GB.

* Where did you read that 2GB was the largest DIMM for my GA-P35-DS4
(except Crucial site does not offer more) ?

The Gigabyte Document I sent you in my first post lists only
2GB.

 

[Skybuck Flying]

For my next system I would also like to have ECC.

My system also had a bit error once... it probably lead to "software rott"
and it fokked up some things.

I'd rather prevent that in the future !

So I hope by the time I design and want to buy my new system that such chips
are generally available.

Bye,
Skybuck.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Hi all,

I plan to replace my 4x2GB DDR2 memories by some 4x2GB ECC memories (I
had an issue with the non-ECC memory so I now want my system to be
safe with ECC).
My Gigabyte motherboard (GA-P35-DS4 rev 1.1) only supports 8 GB max
dispatched in 4x2GB DIMM (so I suppose I can not plug 2x4GB).

My problem is the following one : if it is quite easy to find some non-
ECC memory kits including 2 DIMM, it is impossible to find some 2x2GB
ECC DDR2 memories kits. So I have to buy each ECC DIMMs separately.

* Is it a problem ?
* Will the coupled DIMMs work fine even if they do not belong to the
same serial ?

Thanks in advance for helping me.

The kits are just chips that are well matched. With decent stuff it
should work without the kits. I would buy from a place that's decent
about returns just in case.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

I cannot find anywhere in the manual or on the website where ECC memory
even get a mention with respect to your motherboard much less any
references to being supported. I would suggest you check with Gigabyte
before you part with any cash. You could be wasting money.

Good point. When I built this machine I was investigating ECC memory
and I couldn't find any good non-server boards that supported it.

 

[Castor Nageur]

The kits are just chips that are well matched. With decent stuff it
should work without the kits. I would buy from a place that's decent
about returns just in case.

Exactly.
If you have an issue with the GSkill DIMMs, you have to send them back
to Taiwan and of course pay the postage.
Moreover, you have to wait for a long time to get your memory
replaced.

Good point. When I built this machine I was investigating ECC memory
and I couldn't find any good non-server boards that supported it.

When looking for ECC motherboards, I found a lot of very expensive
server's motherboards which of course is not what I am looking for a
home built PC.
According to Paul, it is easier to find some ECC support on AMD
motherboards so I am going to look for them for building my next
system.

 

[Castor Nageur]

I'm typing this reply, on an X48 motherboard with DDR2 slots.
But I've never had ECC DIMMs in it to test.

It seems that the Intel P67 chipset is handling ECC memories (I am
thinking of building a new Core i7 965 CPU system).
I know that P67 has a bug with SATA but this is not a problem for me.

I found these lines in the Gigabyte GA-P67A-UD7-B3 motherboard manual:

PAGE 10:
Support for DDR3 2133/1866/1600/1333/1066 MHz memory modules
Support for non-ECC memory modules

PAGE 117:
C1h Detect memory
- Auto-detection of DRAM size, type and ECC

According to this I understand that this mobo "also" handles non-ECC
memory modules so it should handles ECC.
Page 117 line seems to confirm this.

* Am I right ?

Anyway, this is very hard to find out which chipset/mobo support or
not ECC.

 

[Pen]

It seems that the Intel P67 chipset is handling ECC memories (I am
thinking of building a new Core i7 965 CPU system).
I know that P67 has a bug with SATA but this is not a problem for me.

I found these lines in the Gigabyte GA-P67A-UD7-B3 motherboard manual:

PAGE 10:
Support for DDR3 2133/1866/1600/1333/1066 MHz memory modules
Support for non-ECC memory modules

PAGE 117:
C1h Detect memory
- Auto-detection of DRAM size, type and ECC

According to this I understand that this mobo "also" handles non-ECC
memory modules so it should handles ECC.
Page 117 line seems to confirm this.

* Am I right ?

I think you are wrong. Page 10 limits memory to non-ECC
memory. Page 117 is an Error Code section. All it promises
is to detect if ECC is correct or not. It does NOT promise
support for anything. Support was described on page 10 as
non-ECC only. Gigabyte does have ECC motherboards, but they
are in an entirely different series.

 

[Castor Nageur]

I think you are wrong.

I think you are right (that I am wrong ).
I finally looked in the AMD socket section and found that the Gigabyte
GA-770T-USB3 supports ECC (this is explicitly written in the specs),
handles recent Phenom II CPU and also USB3 for a very affordable price
(about $120). The chipset is the AMD 770 apparently known for
supporting ECC memories.

Here is the board main's page: http://www.gigabyte.us/products/product-page.aspx?pid=3589#sp

Here's the supported memories list:
http://www.gigabyte.us/products/product-page.aspx?pid=3589#memory support list

This is very difficult to find from the supported RAM list which ones
are ECC and which ones are not (this is not specified and RAM
reference's codes do not tell it).
I checked the Kingston references but did not find any ECC in the ones
Gigabyte tested for this motherboard.

* Do you recognize some ECC memories in the list (I am afraid Gigabyte
did not test any) ?
* What do you think of this mobo (I plan to start my new system from
it) ? (that's a pity it has not the silent heat pipes you can find an
Intel boards).
* What do you think of AMD 770 chipset ? Is it a good one ?

Thanks in advance.

 

[Paul]

I think you are right (that I am wrong ).
I finally looked in the AMD socket section and found that the Gigabyte
GA-770T-USB3 supports ECC (this is explicitly written in the specs),
handles recent Phenom II CPU and also USB3 for a very affordable price
(about $120). The chipset is the AMD 770 apparently known for
supporting ECC memories.

Here is the board main's page: http://www.gigabyte.us/products/product-page.aspx?pid=3589#sp

Here's the supported memories list:
http://www.gigabyte.us/products/product-page.aspx?pid=3589#memory support list

This is very difficult to find from the supported RAM list which ones
are ECC and which ones are not (this is not specified and RAM
reference's codes do not tell it).
I checked the Kingston references but did not find any ECC in the ones
Gigabyte tested for this motherboard.

* Do you recognize some ECC memories in the list (I am afraid Gigabyte
did not test any) ?
* What do you think of this mobo (I plan to start my new system from
it) ? (that's a pity it has not the silent heat pipes you can find an
Intel boards).
* What do you think of AMD 770 chipset ? Is it a good one ?

Thanks in advance.

This isn't going to be as easy as you think :-(

I don't immediately see ECC in the "supported memories list".
Remember, that such lists may be filled with useless information,
such as memory modules unavailable in your area of the world.
Some of those lists, use modules which are two or three years
old, and no longer in production. The list is of limited value,
except in providing certain kinds of hints as to memory types
in vogue.

http://www.gigabyte.us/products/product-page.aspx?pid=3589#sp

"Support for DDR3
Support ECC memory

Use of a CPU that supports ECC is required if you wish to install ECC memory"

The third item is no problem.

But mixing DDR3 and ECC is more of a problem. The question is,
can you even buy such a module ?

I checked Crucial and searched on the 770T. No ECC modules were offered.

But Kingston lists some.

http://www.ec.kingston.com/ecom/configurator_new/modelsinfo.asp?SysID=63884

KVR1066D3E7/1G 1GB 1066MHz DDR3 ECC CL7 DIMM
KVR1066D3E7/2G 2GB 1066MHz DDR3 ECC CL7 DIMM
KVR1066D3E7K2/2G 2GB 1066MHz DDR3 ECC CL7 DIMM (Kit of 2)
KVR1066D3E7K2/4G 4GB 1066MHz DDR3 ECC CL7 DIMM (Kit of 2) <---

The last item is a 2x2GB kit for $45. ECC modules tend to be
"non-enthusiast" style, which is why the clock rate is more
conservative. Two kits would fill four DIMM slots, total price $90.

http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=349532

We can use the Kingston datasheet, to verify they're ECC. Many times, a
bogus product picture is used. The module should have nine memory chips
per side. And the Kingston datasheet, verifies the construction technique.
The Internet sellers would plop in a picture of an eight chip
module (which I find annoying).

http://www.valueram.com/datasheets/KVR1066D3E7K2_4G.pdf

So it looks like I can find materials, to make this happen.

The next step, is browsing the user manual. I downloaded
the manual, but can't find a BIOS screen for ECC. Is it
hiding in the control-F1 advanced setting screen ? It
isn't in the DRAM settings screen that I can see.

This is a description of the typical Gigabyte BIOS response.

http://forums.tweaktown.com/gigabyt...-slow-time-get-through-bios-post-screens.html

"Press Ctrl+F1 in main BIOS screen, the screen will flash,
meaning it worked, wether it will reveal options you could
not see before is another question."

So it's very much like my motherboard. States ECC capability,
but shows no help in the manual for it. Then, it's all a matter
of scouring the Internet, looking for photos of the screen.

Paul

 

[Castor Nageur]

So it's very much like my motherboard. States ECC capability,
but shows no help in the manual for it. Then, it's all a matter
of scouring the Internet, looking for photos of the screen.

Paul

Hi Paul and thanks for all your precious information.

After navigating on the Kingston web site and as the opposite of
Crucial, I noticed that you can do a reverse motherboard compatibility
search.
So I first selected a 2x4 GB 1333 ECC DIMM and then searched for the
compatible motherboards.
After eliminating all the server mobos, I found that the Kingston
KVR1333D3E9SK2/8G was supported on many cheap mobos (I like this one
because it has a thermal sensor).
I also noticed that ASUS motherboards was good at supporting ECC as
the opposite of Gigabyte.
I also read that except for the Xeon which are far too expensive for
me, Intel "strangely" disabled ECC on most of its Core i5 & i7 CPU so
I decided to choose an AMD motherboard.
I found that the Core i7 2715QE support ECC but I could not find any
available one and could not get any price.

Starting from my Kingston KVR1333D3E9SK2/8G ECC RAM, I selected the
ASUS Crosshair IV Extreme motherboard and chose the most performant
quad core AMD CPU which is the AMD Phenom II X4 975 (the ASUS memory
support lists excluded the AMD Phenom II X6 from the ECC supported RAM
so I suppose there may have an issue with it).

Here is my config:

Motherboard: Crosshair IV Extreme
CPU: AMD Phenom II X4 975
ECC RAM: KVR1333D3E9SK2/8G 8GB 1333MHz DDR3 ECC CL9 DIMM (Kit of
2) with Thermal Sensor


The only problem is the performance : I actually have an Intel Q6600
which has a score of 2.981 whereas the AMD Phenom II X4 975 "only" has
a score of 4.583.
We are far from the still affordable Intel Core i7-2600K performances.
Moreover, I will not gain a lot by comparison with my old Q6600
system.

Here are my benchmarks sources:

http://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu_lookup.php?cpu=AMD+Phenom+II+X4+975
(score of 4.583)
http://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu_lookup.php?cpu=Intel+Core2+Quad+Q6600+@+2.40GHz
(score of 2.981)


* What do you thing of my system ?

* Did somebody hear something about ECC support on a Core i7 CPU at an
affordable price (less than $400) ?

 

[Paul]

Hi Paul and thanks for all your precious information.

After navigating on the Kingston web site and as the opposite of
Crucial, I noticed that you can do a reverse motherboard compatibility
search.
So I first selected a 2x4 GB 1333 ECC DIMM and then searched for the
compatible motherboards.
After eliminating all the server mobos, I found that the Kingston
KVR1333D3E9SK2/8G was supported on many cheap mobos (I like this one
because it has a thermal sensor).
I also noticed that ASUS motherboards was good at supporting ECC as
the opposite of Gigabyte.
I also read that except for the Xeon which are far too expensive for
me, Intel "strangely" disabled ECC on most of its Core i5 & i7 CPU so
I decided to choose an AMD motherboard.
I found that the Core i7 2715QE support ECC but I could not find any
available one and could not get any price.

Starting from my Kingston KVR1333D3E9SK2/8G ECC RAM, I selected the
ASUS Crosshair IV Extreme motherboard and chose the most performant
quad core AMD CPU which is the AMD Phenom II X4 975 (the ASUS memory
support lists excluded the AMD Phenom II X6 from the ECC supported RAM
so I suppose there may have an issue with it).

Here is my config:

Motherboard: Crosshair IV Extreme
CPU: AMD Phenom II X4 975
ECC RAM: KVR1333D3E9SK2/8G 8GB 1333MHz DDR3 ECC CL9 DIMM (Kit of
2) with Thermal Sensor


The only problem is the performance : I actually have an Intel Q6600
which has a score of 2.981 whereas the AMD Phenom II X4 975 "only" has
a score of 4.583.
We are far from the still affordable Intel Core i7-2600K performances.
Moreover, I will not gain a lot by comparison with my old Q6600
system.

Here are my benchmarks sources:

http://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu_lookup.php?cpu=AMD+Phenom+II+X4+975
(score of 4.583)
http://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu_lookup.php?cpu=Intel+Core2+Quad+Q6600+@+2.40GHz
(score of 2.981)


* What do you thing of my system ?

* Did somebody hear something about ECC support on a Core i7 CPU at an
affordable price (less than $400) ?

You're kinda straying out of the stuff I normally look up, so this
is just a hint at a solution.

This motherboard is $300, and would be similar in nature to a LGA1155
desktop board. But it seems to be out of stock for some reason. Maybe
it hasn't started shipping yet ? It's socket LGA1155. The fact the Xeon
and desktop processors use the same socket, and the Xeon has ECC, means
there is room for the pins on a desktop motherboard, but they aren't
connected (and of course, aren't driven by the desktop processor either).

"S5512GM2NR"

http://www.tyan.com/product_SKU_spec.aspx?ProductType=MB&pid=700&SKU=600000225

Supported DIMM Qty (4) DIMM slots
DIMM Type / Speed Unbuffered ECC DDR3 / 1333/1066/800
Capacity Up to 32GB
Memory channel 2 Channels
Memory voltage 1.5V

http://www.tweaktown.com/pressrelea..._new_sandy_bridge_server_platforms/index.html

The processors that fit in it are E3 series, whatever that means.
This is the CPU support list on the Tyan site.

http://www.tyan.com/support_download_cpu2.aspx?socketid=26

This is a processor for it, selected to meet your $400 target.

Intel Xeon E3-1275 Sandy Bridge 3.4GHz 4 x 256KB L2 Cache 8MB L3 Cache
LGA 1155 95W Quad-Core Server Processor BX80623E31275 $349.99

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115085

http://ark.intel.com/Product.aspx?id=52277&code=E3-1275

"ECC Memory Supported Yes

ECC Memory Supported may not be available on all computing systems.
Please reference the system, motherboard or chipset specifications
for compatibility."

I think that is roughly equivalent to a Sandy Bridge 2600K, but
with ECC. The 2600K runs at 3.4GHz as well. The benchmark should be
a bit better than your Q6600.

The only problem with server boards, is tracking down someone to
sell you one.

Obviously, there are lots of questions to ask about boards like that.
(Does it have sound ? A regular set of I/O connectors ?)

Forums like 2cpu.com discuss various server boards, and while
I wouldn't expect that board to be mentioned, that's where I'd look
for more info on server stuff.

http://forums.2cpu.com/forumdisplay.php?f=13

Have a look around the Tyan site, or try SuperMicro, and see what
they have for single socket server motherboards, in an ATX form factor
(so it'll fit your computer case).

For example, there is mention of a similar solution here,
from SuperMicro. So SuperMicro should have something like
Tyan is offering.

http://communities.intel.com/thread/22656

Since the 2600K is kinda the sweet spot for price and high performance,
the reasonably priced E3-1275 should be similar (give or take the
gouging you get on server stuff). You could still afford to build
a home system from it. It's really a matter of looking at the user
manual, and figuring out what's missing. Don't expect overclocking
features on a server board.

Paul

 

[Castor Nageur]

Since the 2600K is kinda the sweet spot for price and high performance,
the reasonably priced E3-1275 should be similar (give or take the
gouging you get on server stuff). You could still afford to build
a home system from it. It's really a matter of looking at the user
manual, and figuring out what's missing. Don't expect overclocking
features on a server board.

Hi Paul and thanks again for your pertinent advices.

I had a look at the Intel Xeon E31275 on the CPU benchmark web site :

http://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu_lookup.php?cpu=Intel+Xeon+E31275+@+3.40GHz

.... and saw that this CPU is in the top list. I am really surprised to
see that I can find it in my country (France) for no more than 340
euros (~ $480).
According to the benchmarks, the Xeon E3 1275 (9.142) is much better
than my Q6600 (2.981). Of course, it does not mean that the Xeon is
simply 3 times faster than my Q6600.

This Xeon is really cheaper than the other of the same category
compared to its performance.
I can find the S5512GM2NR Tyan motherboard in France for 217 euros (~
$308) which is equivalent to the US price.

With you suggestions, I can have a robust and performance server for a
very affordable price (I don't overclock).
I was going to give up but perhaps I am going to change my mind ...

 

[Castor Nageur]

Since the 2600K is kinda the sweet spot for price and high performance,
the reasonably priced E3-1275 should be similar (give or take the
gouging you get on server stuff). You could still afford to build
a home system from it. It's really a matter of looking at the user
manual, and figuring out what's missing. Don't expect overclocking
features on a server board.

Hi Paul and thanks again for your pertinent advices.

I had a look at the Intel Xeon E31275 on the CPU benchmark web site :

http://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu_lookup.php?cpu=Intel+Xeon+E31275+@+3.40GHz

.... and saw that this CPU is in the top list. I am really surprised to
see that I can find it in my country (France) for no more than 340
euros (~ $480).
According to the benchmarks, the Xeon E3 1275 (9.142) is much better
than my Q6600 (2.981). Of course, it does not mean that the Xeon is
simply 3 times faster than my Q6600.

This Xeon is really cheaper than the other of the same category
compared to its performance.
I can find the S5512GM2NR Tyan motherboard in France for 217 euros (~
$308) which is equivalent to the US price.

With you suggestions, I can have a robust and performance server for a
very affordable price (I don't overclock).
I was going to give up but perhaps I am going to change my mind ...