Display quality with ATI Radeon 9800

[David Wilkinson]

My problem concerns quality of text output on a CRT monitor.

Computer: Dell Dimension 8300
Processor: Pentium 4 2.60 GHz
Operating System: Windows XP Professional
Hard drive: 120 GB
Memory: 512 MB
Video card: ATI Radeon 9800 128MB (2 video outputs)
Primary monitor: Dell Ultrascan 1226H (19 inch CRT, 1024x768))
Secondary monitor: Dell E151FPb (15 inch flat panel, analog, 1024x768)

I am not interested in gaming, and am not heavily into graphics. In fact
all I am really interested in is crisp text with good contrast. I chose
the Radeon 9800 card because it supports 2 monitors, and will allow me
to upgrade to a DVI monitor some time in the future.

I have the 19 inch CRT monitor on the analog output of the card, and the
15 inch flat panel in the digital output with a converter plug. Both
monitors are using the Microsoft 5.1.2001.0 driver (dated 6/6/2001). The
card shows up twice in device manager, both times using the ATI
6.14.1.6297 driver (dated 2/20/2003).

The problem is that on the 19 inch CRT monitor the display looks
completely "washed out". The colors have no vibrancy, black is not
black, white has a slight bluish hue, greys are faded with a "dirty
brown" kind of look. The 1226H is not a great monitor (IMO), but it
works fine on two other computers; this monitor is on a KVM switch, so
it is easy to verify that there is a big difference. So there cannot be
anything intrinsically wrong with the monitor. I would like to run this
monitor at 1280x1024, but it just looks terrible at this resolution.

On the 15 inch flat panel the display is much better, though perhaps
still a bit "faded". But certainly acceptable for the things that I do.

What is wrong here? My feeling is that it is not the CRT monitor which
is at fault, it's just that the LCD monitor is doing a better job
because it intrinsically has a sharper look. I have tried messing with
the settings of both the CRT monitor and the video driver, but nothing I
have tried really looks any better than the default settings. Compared
to anything I owned before this is a high end video card; why am I
getting such poor results?

Thanks in advance for any input.

David Wilkinson

 

[aep]

I am not interested in gaming, and am not heavily into graphics. In fact
all I am really interested in is crisp text with good contrast. I chose
the Radeon 9800 card because it supports 2 monitors, and will allow me
to upgrade to a DVI monitor some time in the future.

You wasted all that money for that? You can get cards for $100 that do
that just as well.

 

[Ben Pope]

My problem concerns quality of text output on a CRT monitor.

Computer: Dell Dimension 8300
Processor: Pentium 4 2.60 GHz
Operating System: Windows XP Professional
Hard drive: 120 GB
Memory: 512 MB
Video card: ATI Radeon 9800 128MB (2 video outputs)
Primary monitor: Dell Ultrascan 1226H (19 inch CRT, 1024x768))
Secondary monitor: Dell E151FPb (15 inch flat panel, analog, 1024x768)

I am not interested in gaming, and am not heavily into graphics. In
fact all I am really interested in is crisp text with good contrast.
I chose the Radeon 9800 card because it supports 2 monitors, and will
allow me to upgrade to a DVI monitor some time in the future.

So will other cheaper Radeons, AFAIK.

I have the 19 inch CRT monitor on the analog output of the card, and
the 15 inch flat panel in the digital output with a converter plug.
Both monitors are using the Microsoft 5.1.2001.0 driver (dated
6/6/2001). The card shows up twice in device manager, both times
using the ATI
6.14.1.6297 driver (dated 2/20/2003).

You could try installing the latest driver...

The problem is that on the 19 inch CRT monitor the display looks
completely "washed out". The colors have no vibrancy, black is not
black, white has a slight bluish hue, greys are faded with a "dirty
brown" kind of look. The 1226H is not a great monitor (IMO), but it
works fine on two other computers; this monitor is on a KVM switch, so
it is easy to verify that there is a big difference. So there cannot
be anything intrinsically wrong with the monitor. I would like to run
this monitor at 1280x1024, but it just looks terrible at this
resolution.

My Crucial 9800 Pro looks fine on my Sony G400 at 1600x1200@85Hz

Do you have an ICC profile for the monitor installed? If not, I think Adobe
have a tool to create one (dunno if it's free, it comes with Photoshop, at
least) and possibly powerstrip.

It shouldn't be too hard to get blacks black - tend to decrease the picture
size, adjust contrast to maximum then adjust brightness until you can't
quite see where the edge of the scanning is, then readjust size.

If whites are blue, then your colour temperature is too high...

Ben

 

[David Wilkinson]

Andrew:

Thanks for the concern for my pocket-book. It has occurred to me that
this is more card than I need, but this was not the 9800 Pro, just the
regular 9800. I think it was the cheapest ATI card which Dell offered
which would do both DVI and dual monitor; it cost me $115 more than the
default offering, which was 128 MB Nvidia GeForceTM FX 5200. Maybe I
should have stuck with that, but I didn't.

But now it's done, do you have any suggestions? Could there be something
wrong with the card?

David

==============================

 

[Strontium]

-
David Wilkinson stood up at show-n-tell, in
[email protected], and said:

My problem concerns quality of text output on a CRT monitor.

Computer: Dell Dimension 8300
Processor: Pentium 4 2.60 GHz
Operating System: Windows XP Professional
Hard drive: 120 GB
Memory: 512 MB
Video card: ATI Radeon 9800 128MB (2 video outputs)
Primary monitor: Dell Ultrascan 1226H (19 inch CRT, 1024x768))
Secondary monitor: Dell E151FPb (15 inch flat panel, analog, 1024x768)

I am not interested in gaming, and am not heavily into graphics. In
fact all I am really interested in is crisp text with good contrast.
I chose the Radeon 9800 card because it supports 2 monitors, and will
allow me to upgrade to a DVI monitor some time in the future.

I have the 19 inch CRT monitor on the analog output of the card, and
the 15 inch flat panel in the digital output with a converter plug.
Both monitors are using the Microsoft 5.1.2001.0 driver (dated
6/6/2001). The card shows up twice in device manager, both times
using the ATI
6.14.1.6297 driver (dated 2/20/2003).

The problem is that on the 19 inch CRT monitor the display looks
completely "washed out". The colors have no vibrancy, black is not
black, white has a slight bluish hue, greys are faded with a "dirty
brown" kind of look. The 1226H is not a great monitor (IMO), but it
works fine on two other computers; this monitor is on a KVM switch, so
it is easy to verify that there is a big difference. So there cannot
be anything intrinsically wrong with the monitor. I would like to run
this monitor at 1280x1024, but it just looks terrible at this
resolution.

On the 15 inch flat panel the display is much better, though perhaps
still a bit "faded". But certainly acceptable for the things that I
do.

What is wrong here?

You didn't get a Matrox card.

 

[Cyber Chum]

You didn't get a Matrox card.

Yea, should have got the Parhelia which supports three monitors. But
the ATI card should have no problems with the display quality. I think
all current video cards made by Nvidia or ATI support two monitors.

 

[David Morton]

The problem is that on the 19 inch CRT monitor the display looks

completely "washed out". The colors have no vibrancy, black is not
black, white has a slight bluish hue, greys are faded with a "dirty
brown" kind of look. The 1226H is not a great monitor (IMO), but it
works fine on two other computers; this monitor is on a KVM switch, so
it is easy to verify that there is a big difference. So there cannot be
anything intrinsically wrong with the monitor. I would like to run this
monitor at 1280x1024, but it just looks terrible at this resolution.

You mentioned the evil word 'KVM' - Are you plugging the monitor straight
into the card? KVM switches are reknown for causing video degradation.

 

[SST]

what is your refresh rate? Should be 85Hz or better.

My 9700 Pro looks F'ing amazing on a 19" Hitachi at that same resolution at
100Hz.
Use the newest ATI Catalyst drivers too.

 

[David Wilkinson]

Thanks to all who replied.

1. Seems maybe I did buy more card than I need, and perhaps the wrong
brand of card. Ah well.

2. Ben, you were right about the color temperature. I has set it to 9300
to try to get rid of "grey" background. At 6500 it is not white-white,
but not blue any more either. Better.

3. I have tried without the KVM switch, and with the two monitors
switched on the video outputs. No difference. LCD looks good, CRT not.

4. I have backed of the resolution on the 19" CRT from 1280x1024 to
1152x864, which looks a bit better. Maybe 1280x1024 just made text to
small for me anyway. One thing this has taught me is that if I go to
1280x1024 LCD, then I need 19 inch.

5. Once again, my only real concern is the black-white contrast. Not
motion blur, ghosting, fuzziness or any of that. By playing with the
color settings I have gotten it to look a bit better, maybe not so
different from the same monitor with my other computers. Part of the
problem is that with my new system the CRT monitor sits right next to my
15 inch LCD, which looks so much better.

One final question:

Does anybody know a good tutorial on video settings (color temperature,
brightness, contrast, individual color settings, color profiles, and all
that)?


Thanks again,

David

 

[Pluvious]

Thanks to all who replied.

1. Seems maybe I did buy more card than I need, and perhaps the wrong
brand of card. Ah well.

2. Ben, you were right about the color temperature. I has set it to 9300
to try to get rid of "grey" background. At 6500 it is not white-white,
but not blue any more either. Better.

3. I have tried without the KVM switch, and with the two monitors
switched on the video outputs. No difference. LCD looks good, CRT not.

4. I have backed of the resolution on the 19" CRT from 1280x1024 to
1152x864, which looks a bit better. Maybe 1280x1024 just made text to
small for me anyway. One thing this has taught me is that if I go to
1280x1024 LCD, then I need 19 inch.

5. Once again, my only real concern is the black-white contrast. Not
motion blur, ghosting, fuzziness or any of that. By playing with the
color settings I have gotten it to look a bit better, maybe not so
different from the same monitor with my other computers. Part of the
problem is that with my new system the CRT monitor sits right next to my
15 inch LCD, which looks so much better.

One final question:

Does anybody know a good tutorial on video settings (color temperature,
brightness, contrast, individual color settings, color profiles, and all
that)?


Thanks again,

David

Highly recommend you download the free 30 day trail of 3deep. It allows you to
tweak your colors correctly and it makes a NOTICEABLE difference once done.

http://www.colorific.com/d1.htm


Pluvious

 

[Mart]

I can't see what all the fuss is about with
refresh rates - I can't see any difference
whatsoever in the 60, 70, 75 or 85Hz
that my 17" Packard Bell CRT monitor
offers.

 

[Nick M V Salmon]

Then you're very insensitive to screen flicker - 60Hz is terrible & 75Hz
isn't much better IMO - I much prefer 85Hz myself. My 8500LE used to revert
to 60Hz for no apparent reason whenever I rebooted that machine but using
WinXP's 'Plug & Play Monitor' instead of the Hansol monitor driver fixed it.

I recently bought myself a 17" Mitsubishi LCD '1760NX' for a second display
& that's great, completely flicker free.

BTW: That's not criticism of you - we're all different, that's all...

[UK]_Nick...

 

[Ben Pope]

I can't see what all the fuss is about with
refresh rates - I can't see any difference
whatsoever in the 60, 70, 75 or 85Hz
that my 17" Packard Bell CRT monitor
offers.

My monitor reverted to 60Hz earlier... I thought my eyes were going to
bleed.



I guess I'm more sensitive to it.

Ben

 

[JAD]

http://www.benchmarkhq.ru/english.html?/be_monitor.html

this page has a good assortment of adjustment controls

 

[John]

OT I know, but this group seems to be on the ball. Regarding ATI and
LCDs......

HELP: I'm running an ATI 9600PRO (DVI-I out) along with the current
Catalyst driver and a brand new NEC 1760NX monitor (DVI-D In). The
card and monitor work great using the analog d-15 VGA connectors and
cable. If I plug in the DVI-D cable, everything goes blank. If I
shut the machine down and remove all the analog cables and just use
the DVI-D, the screen never lights up (No signal). Does anyone on the
planet know what's wrong? I'm left concluding that the DVI-D cable is
bad. Could it be a setting on the video card? Help us, please!!

 

[methylenedioxy]

The dvi won't boot from cold start you need to switch it once computer has
booted.....Bios won't recognise it.,.....

 

[John]

The dvi won't boot from cold start you need to switch it once computer has
booted.....Bios won't recognise it.,.....

I did try switching the cables after the machine booted into windows.
When connecting the DVI, the screen goes blank. What BIOs and what
switch are you referring to?? Thanks for the help.

 

[Strontium]

He might mean the reset switch.

-
John stood up at show-n-tell, in
(e-mail address removed), and said: