disk defragmenter

S

Stephen

Defragmenting the hard disk is often recommended to improve performance. My
hard disk has never been more than 25% used, so I wonder why any of the
files have ever become fragmented in the first place. Isn't this just a
difficiency of the operating system?

Stephen
 
T

Tony Meloche

Stephen said:
Defragmenting the hard disk is often recommended to improve performance. My
hard disk has never been more than 25% used, so I wonder why any of the
files have ever become fragmented in the first place. Isn't this just a
difficiency of the operating system?

Stephen


If your disk is only 10% used, the files will still, over time, become
fragmented. It's "the nature of the beast", though in your situation,
they might not get fragmented as quickly.

Best bet is to have Windows Defrag analyze the disk once a month. If it
says you're fine for now, you're fine for now. If it says Defrag, do
it. Generally takes just a short time.

Tony
 
A

Alias

Stephen said:
Defragmenting the hard disk is often recommended to improve performance. My
hard disk has never been more than 25% used, so I wonder why any of the
files have ever become fragmented in the first place. Isn't this just a
difficiency of the operating system?

Stephen

It's a deficiency that you need to live with if you want to continue
using XP. The hard drive becomes defragmented due to use. How much of
the hard drive is used is not relevant unless you have more than 85% and
then it will be impossible to defrag it.
 
B

Bud W

Alias said:
It's a deficiency that you need to live with if you want to continue using
XP. The hard drive becomes defragmented due to use. How much of the hard
drive is used is not relevant unless you have more than 85% and then it
will be impossible to defrag it.

Alias: Are you implying that only XP results in fragmented files?

Bud
 
A

Alias

Bud said:
Alias: Are you implying that only XP results in fragmented files?

Bud

Not at all. Where did you get that idea? All versions of Windows have
this problem, not just XP.
 
B

Bud W

Alias said:
Not at all. Where did you get that idea? All versions of Windows have this
problem, not just XP.

I got the idea from your comment about continuing to use XP.
 
A

Alias

Bud said:
I got the idea from your comment about continuing to use XP.

The only comment I made was that to continue using XP, one needs to run
the defrag from time-to-time. How you got the idea that I said only XP
has this problem is beyond me. As the OP is running XP, other Windows
versions is not really relevant.
 
L

Lil' Dave

Stephen said:
Defragmenting the hard disk is often recommended to improve performance.
My hard disk has never been more than 25% used, so I wonder why any of the
files have ever become fragmented in the first place. Isn't this just a
difficiency of the operating system?

Stephen

Some windows system files and related files to the operating system are not
stagnant. They change as you use the PC. This occurs by design.

Changed open files saved back to the OS partition may not fit in the
previous allocated space, or even may not be attempted to save in the
previous allocated space. They end up dispersed in freespace.

As a comparative analysis, if you have separate partition for saving stuff
that doesn't change or have stuff added to it often, like personal file save
location; observing the fragmentation on that partition will appear
relatively stagnant.
Dave
 
S

Stephen

Lil' Dave said:
Some windows system files and related files to the operating system are
not stagnant. They change as you use the PC. This occurs by design.

Changed open files saved back to the OS partition may not fit in the
previous allocated space, or even may not be attempted to save in the
previous allocated space. They end up dispersed in freespace.

As a comparative analysis, if you have separate partition for saving stuff
that doesn't change or have stuff added to it often, like personal file
save location; observing the fragmentation on that partition will appear
relatively stagnant.
Dave

Yes, I understand why a file may shift in position on the drive. My question
is this: As there is always ample contiguous space for saving a file, why
does it get fragmented in the first place?
 
T

Tony Meloche

Stephen said:
Yes, I understand why a file may shift in position on the drive. My question
is this: As there is always ample contiguous space for saving a file, why
does it get fragmented in the first place?

An individual file may - or may not - get fragmented when the hard drive
is "putting it away". The drive does whatever is most convenient.
Frequently, that is right back where it was. Sometimes, it is not.

But a *program* may consist of many, many files (.dll's, etc). The
larger the program (the more files it has) the less likely the drive
will put them all back right where they were. The drive can always find
all the pieces of that program, but as they get scattered about (and
multiply that by 100-125 programs on your computer) it takes the drive
longer and longer to find them all. That's the slowdown that comes with
fragmentation.

The drive will always do what is most expedient for itself (so to
speak). Over time, that invariably results in fragmentation.

Tony
 
L

Lil' Dave

Stephen said:
Yes, I understand why a file may shift in position on the drive. My
question is this: As there is always ample contiguous space for saving a
file, why does it get fragmented in the first place?

Because there is not a contingency in the operating system to write to
freespace where such a file(s) would be unfragmented as a result.
Dave
 
L

Lil' Dave

Tony Meloche said:
An individual file may - or may not - get fragmented when the hard drive
is "putting it away". The drive does whatever is most convenient.
Frequently, that is right back where it was. Sometimes, it is not.

But a *program* may consist of many, many files (.dll's, etc). The larger
the program (the more files it has) the less likely the drive will put
them all back right where they were. The drive can always find all the
pieces of that program, but as they get scattered about (and multiply that
by 100-125 programs on your computer) it takes the drive longer and longer
to find them all. That's the slowdown that comes with fragmentation.

The drive will always do what is most expedient for itself (so to speak).
Over time, that invariably results in fragmentation.

Know that's figuratively speaking regarding a "drive" doing anything on its
own. Which it doesn't.
Dave
 
L

Lil' Dave

Aevin said:
From what I understand, in NTFS the free space preference algorithm is
such that if it can, windows will fill up the pieces of free space in
order on the disk from the beginning of the partition itself rather than
go over to the great swathes of free space further down and plop the
file there. Quite stupid, but that's what we have and what we need to
live with.

In it's defense, windows has no idea how much each file will grow (or
shrink) in the future so it cannot preallocate space to it under normal
circumstances and steal that space from other files which may need it in
the future. This preallocation may not be an issue when the disk has a
lot of free space left, but what when it begins to get filled up? Even
the MFT fragments once it's outgrows it's preallocated zone, or disk
space begins to get full and other files encroach into it's zone.

Fragmentation is therefore a dynamic problem and needs a dynamic
solution w.r.t disk volumes that see heavy I/O activity. That's why
automatic defragmenters are becoming the preferred solution on the
server (and even workstation) side of things in the enterprise segment;
because unlike the older occasional scheduled/manual defrag processes,
they are a continuous approach to tackling fragmentation. The icing on
the cake is that auto defragmentation is also largely autonomous and
the admin's workload is greatly reduced.

As long as there is windows in the current form, we are stuck with
fragmentation. Maybe we ought to ask MS to create a new non-fragmenting
filesystem for Vienna (Yes please, and large fries with that order) :p

Have found Diskeeper to do that if setup correctly. I only allow that on
the windows partition. Any remaining partitions don't seem to require it,
or aren't worthwhile maintaining as such. Examples of the latter include
partitions contianing image files (partition images), personal files like
letters and pictures for archive purposes, software installation packages.
They are all stagnant regarding fragmentation. Such as they are, except for
image files which I never suggest defragmenting, the remainder are fine
doing an intermittent manual defrag.
Dave
 

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