Denied! Computer RAM does not DO Dual Channel MODE

[Teknowbabble]

I just stuck in my neeeewww stick of Crucial 512 MB PC3200 (DDR400)
into my system, when up flashes, the ominous words, "Single Channel
Mode."

OK, I thought. I wont panic yet.

I looked at my motherboard spec and saw that I didnt have the DIMMs in
the right order. Ive got 4 slots, A0 A1 B0 B1. Initially I tried A0 A1
and that didnt work. So I tried A0 B0 and ...
"SINGLE CHANNEL MODE."

ARGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHH!

Now I want to take hostages!

------------------------------------------------------------------
Here's my setup:
------------------------------------------------------------------
- Intel Motherboard: D865GBF (socket 478)

- P4 2.8 ghz (with hyperthreading) 800 FSB

- RAM (512 MB x 2)

1rst stick --> Crucial CT6464Z40B.16FG
(32MB x 8)/(32 x 8) 16 SDRAM Chips

2nd Stick --> Crucial CT6464z40B.8TDY
(64MB x 8) 8 SDRAM Chips

** 4GB RAM Max allowed on Motherboard

- Windows XP Pro with SP2
------------------------------------------------------------------

Here's what my motherboard spec has to say about DIMMs and Channels.

****************************************************************************
Examples of Dual Channel Configuration with Dynamic Mode
Throughput Highest to Lowest
****************************************************************************
Dual Channel with Dynamic Mode ---> All DIMMs matched

Dual Channel without Dynamic Mode ---> DIMMs matched from Channel A to
Channel B

Dual Channel without Dynamic Mode ---> DIMMs not matched within
channels

Single Channel with Dynamic Mode ---> Single DIMM or DIMMs matched
within a channel

Single Channel without Dynamic Mode ---> DIMMs not matched
***************************************************************************

Basically Im getting that my Memory Sticks are not matched. Is it
because Ive got 8 Chips on one Stick and 16 Chips on the other? Its
the same basic model or at least I thought.

Now Im not sure what to do. Ive got a brand new stick that doesnt do
dual channel mode which is why I bought it originally. Doing a return
is costly and timely. Ive contemplated bartering with local computer
shops to see if they could give me a deal. Ive also thought about
selling one of the sticks or both and just buying another "matched
pair" outright.

Any ideas?


Teknowbabble

 

[Peter Lykkegaard]

I just stuck in my neeeewww stick of Crucial 512 MB PC3200 (DDR400)
into my system, when up flashes, the ominous words, "Single Channel
Mode."

Any ideas?

Match pairs - or at least two stick as to each other as possible
But I would always choose match pairs above single sticks

- Peter

 

[frodo]

Match pairs - or at least two stick as to each other as possible
But I would always choose match pairs above single sticks
- Peter

Yup, must be identical pairs (same exact timings) and often best if the
factory also certified them as a "matched dual-channel set". Place them
into the same colored slots, usually 1+3 and 2+4.

But don't worry adout it too much, in the real world dual channel really
doesn't make that much of a diff, most apps are nowhere near mem-bandwidth
strapped. If you have a raid disk setup it might help there tho... [still
only talking a few % points improvement].

 

[Dave]

I just stuck in my neeeewww stick of Crucial 512 MB PC3200 (DDR400)
into my system, when up flashes, the ominous words, "Single Channel
Mode."

OK, I thought. I wont panic yet.

I looked at my motherboard spec and saw that I didnt have the DIMMs in
the right order. Ive got 4 slots, A0 A1 B0 B1. Initially I tried A0 A1
and that didnt work. So I tried A0 B0 and ...
"SINGLE CHANNEL MODE."

Right on matched pairs. Dual channel mobos generally default to single
channel operation if the pairs are not matched. So your mobo is
behaving as it should.

"Dual Channel without Dynamic Mode ---> DIMMs not matched within
channels"

I think this is the case you were hoping would work. I
think----THINK-- this refers to matching density and not necessarily
module capacity. This is assumes density is defined as the capacity of
each dram unit (chip) as opposed to total module capacity. A recent
conversation with Crucial suggests this.

Open to correction....
Dave H

 

[Flyer]

I just stuck in my neeeewww stick of Crucial 512 MB PC3200 (DDR400)
into my system, when up flashes, the ominous words, "Single Channel
Mode."

OK, I thought. I wont panic yet.


Now Im not sure what to do. Ive got a brand new stick that doesnt do
dual channel mode which is why I bought it originally. Doing a return
is costly and timely. Ive contemplated bartering with local computer
shops to see if they could give me a deal. Ive also thought about
selling one of the sticks or both and just buying another "matched
pair" outright.

I was under the impression, borne out by personal experience, that dual
channel working usually requires two matched memory chips. Most of the big
memory mfrs sell matched pairs, for dual channel working.
I use Corsair's TwinX brand..

P.

 

[Mike T.]

I was under the impression, borne out by personal experience, that dual
channel working usually requires two matched memory chips. Most of the big
memory mfrs sell matched pairs, for dual channel working.
I use Corsair's TwinX brand..

P.

No, and it's dangerous to spread that rumor. Dual channel requires two RAM
boards with similar specifications, but not necessarily the same model, or
even the same brand.

HOWEVER, that didn't stop unscrupulous memory manufacturers from trying to
profit underhandedly from the dual channel feature.

What I've seen quite often is, brand X will package two of memory stick Y
and set price Z >(cost of 2Y), using "dual channel kit" as a flimsy excuse
for price gouging.

That is, 1GB (one stick) is $100 (for example)
Dual channel kit of 2 X 1GB is $230 (for example)
If you buy the (one) dual channel kit you get EXACTLY what you'd get if you
bought (two) of the 1GB sticks. So as you can see, the math doesn't
compute.

There is nothing special about RAM that is used in dual channel mode. It is
RAM. The chipset uses two RAM sticks as one really wide stick, to slightly
increase bandwidth/memory performance. The RAM is identical, whether you
install one stick or two, and whether you purchase single sticks or a dual
channel "kit". But if you bought the dual channel kit, you might possibly
have paid too much. -Dave

 

[Paul]

I just stuck in my neeeewww stick of Crucial 512 MB PC3200 (DDR400)
into my system, when up flashes, the ominous words, "Single Channel
Mode."

OK, I thought. I wont panic yet.

I looked at my motherboard spec and saw that I didnt have the DIMMs in
the right order. Ive got 4 slots, A0 A1 B0 B1. Initially I tried A0 A1
and that didnt work. So I tried A0 B0 and ...
"SINGLE CHANNEL MODE."

ARGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHH!

Now I want to take hostages!

------------------------------------------------------------------
Here's my setup:
------------------------------------------------------------------
- Intel Motherboard: D865GBF (socket 478)

- P4 2.8 ghz (with hyperthreading) 800 FSB

- RAM (512 MB x 2)

1rst stick --> Crucial CT6464Z40B.16FG
(32MB x 8)/(32 x 8) 16 SDRAM Chips

2nd Stick --> Crucial CT6464z40B.8TDY
(64MB x 8) 8 SDRAM Chips

** 4GB RAM Max allowed on Motherboard

- Windows XP Pro with SP2
------------------------------------------------------------------

Here's what my motherboard spec has to say about DIMMs and Channels.

****************************************************************************
Examples of Dual Channel Configuration with Dynamic Mode
Throughput Highest to Lowest
****************************************************************************
Dual Channel with Dynamic Mode ---> All DIMMs matched

Dual Channel without Dynamic Mode ---> DIMMs matched from Channel A to
Channel B

Dual Channel without Dynamic Mode ---> DIMMs not matched within
channels

Single Channel with Dynamic Mode ---> Single DIMM or DIMMs matched
within a channel

Single Channel without Dynamic Mode ---> DIMMs not matched
***************************************************************************

Basically Im getting that my Memory Sticks are not matched. Is it
because Ive got 8 Chips on one Stick and 16 Chips on the other? Its
the same basic model or at least I thought.

Now Im not sure what to do. Ive got a brand new stick that doesnt do
dual channel mode which is why I bought it originally. Doing a return
is costly and timely. Ive contemplated bartering with local computer
shops to see if they could give me a deal. Ive also thought about
selling one of the sticks or both and just buying another "matched
pair" outright.

Any ideas?


Teknowbabble

The evidence they are not matched, is right there in the "16FG"
and the "8TDY" of the part numbers. The first DIMM has 16 chips
and the second DIMM has 8 chips. The first DIMM is made with
32Mx8 chips and the second DIMM is made with 64Mx8 chips. It looks
like the pricing at the component level, must now favor using the
larger memory chips (because I saw mention of an 8 chip Crucial
512MB stick a couple days ago).

A while back, there were a couple 512MB single sided DIMMs, but
they seemed to disappear (probably because they cost more and
weren't competitive). Up to this point, 512MB sticks were more
or less uniformly 16 chip designs, with 32Mx8 chips. But now that
Crucial is shipping that kind of stuff, we'll have to warn people
of the possibility of the mixing of the two kinds of stock. I
hope this doesn't become a popular trend with the manufacturers.
(Not that I think an 8 chip DIMM is bad - it should be better
for overclocking )

Paul

 

[DaveW]

To insure dual channel mode you SHOULD buy a MATCHED set of 2 RAM sticks RAM
from a vendor. They sell them that way specifically because dual channel
mode requires two ABSOLUTELY IDENTICAL RAM sticks in order to work stabley.

 

[Dave]

To insure dual channel mode you SHOULD buy a MATCHED set of 2 RAM sticks
RAM from a vendor. They sell them that way specifically because dual
channel mode requires two ABSOLUTELY IDENTICAL RAM sticks in order to work
stabley.

Well, that's the vicious rumor that people insist on spreading anyway

 

[McFly]

Teknowbabble,

Do you know the speed rating of your first RAM? Google CPU-Z and run
it. If the orignal RAM and your new RAM have the same speed rating,
double channel should work...

-fly-

 

[John Doe]

No, and it's dangerous to spread that rumor.

Taking drama classes lately?

The waste of money, probably. Dangerous, hardly.

-Dave




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Subject: Re: Denied! Computer RAM does not DO Dual Channel MODE
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[Teknowbabble]

I just stuck in my neeeewww stick of Crucial 512 MB PC3200 (DDR400)
into my system, when up flashes, the ominous words, "Single Channel
Mode."

OK, I thought. I wont panic yet.

I looked at my motherboard spec and saw that I didnt have the DIMMs in
the right order. Ive got 4 slots, A0 A1 B0 B1. Initially I tried A0 A1
and that didnt work. So I tried A0 B0 and ...
"SINGLE CHANNEL MODE."

ARGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHH!

Now I want to take hostages!

------------------------------------------------------------------
Here's my setup:
------------------------------------------------------------------
- Intel Motherboard: D865GBF (socket 478)

- P4 2.8 ghz (with hyperthreading) 800 FSB

- RAM (512 MB x 2)

1rst stick --> Crucial CT6464Z40B.16FG
(32MB x 8)/(32 x 8) 16 SDRAM Chips

2nd Stick --> Crucial CT6464z40B.8TDY
(64MB x 8) 8 SDRAM Chips

** 4GB RAM Max allowed on Motherboard

- Windows XP Pro with SP2
------------------------------------------------------------------

Here's what my motherboard spec has to say about DIMMs and Channels.

***************************************************************************­*
Examples of Dual Channel Configuration with Dynamic Mode
Throughput Highest to Lowest
***************************************************************************­*
Dual Channel with Dynamic Mode ---> All DIMMs matched

Dual Channel without Dynamic Mode ---> DIMMs matched from Channel A to
Channel B

Dual Channel without Dynamic Mode ---> DIMMs not matched within
channels

Single Channel with Dynamic Mode ---> Single DIMM or DIMMs matched
within a channel

Single Channel without Dynamic Mode ---> DIMMs not matched
***************************************************************************

Basically Im getting that my Memory Sticks are not matched. Is it
because Ive got 8 Chips on one Stick and 16 Chips on the other? Its
the same basic model or at least I thought.

Now Im not sure what to do. Ive got a brand new stick that doesnt do
dual channel mode which is why I bought it originally. Doing a return
is costly and timely. Ive contemplated bartering with local computer
shops to see if they could give me a deal. Ive also thought about
selling one of the sticks or both and just buying another "matched
pair" outright.

Any ideas?

Teknowbabble

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

MAN! THIS FRYS MY CHICKEN!

The worst of it all is that I should have known better. Oh well! Chalk
one up for experience. I wish retailers would let people know that
matched means the same # of chips on each stick and not just the same
part number. Also I noticed a lot of retailers dont put the extensions
(.16FG or .8TDY) after their parts.

I didnt have enough $$$ initially to buy a matched pair. I just
figured I would buy another one down the line.

I called Crucial (aka Micron Technologies) and they said that I needed
to have the same amount of chips on each memory stick. They said that
they are going to 8 chips vs 16 chips (older versions) because its
cheaper. They are also twice as tall by the way.

Part # Stick 1: CT6464Z40B.16FG
Part # Stick 2: CT6464z40B.8TDY

Also, I was told the extensions after the part number indicate the #
of chips on the memory stick. The letters thereafter are strickly for
Crucials Accounting office. They were a little wishy-washy about
saying whether the IC's had to be of Identical makes to be "matched."

I took your advice and ran CPU-Z. Here's the relevant printout

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
CPU-Z version 1.39
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Chipset
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Northbridge Intel i865P/PE/G/i848P rev. A2
Southbridge Intel 82801EB (ICH5) rev. 02
Memory Type DDR
Memory Size 1024 MBytes
Memory Frequency 199.6 MHz (1:1)
CAS# 3.0
RAS# to CAS# 3
RAS# Precharge 3
Cycle Time (tRAS) 8
Performance Mode disabled

MCHBAR dump
-----------

0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 A B C D E F
00 04 08 08 08 10 10 10 10 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
10 11 00 02 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
20 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
30 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
40 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
50 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
60 45 05 A0 D2 C6 42 14 00 71 02 00 20 05 80 00 00
70 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
80 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
90 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
A0 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
B0 24 08 00 00 24 08 00 00 24 08 00 00 24 08 00 00
C0 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
D0 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
E0 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
F0 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00


Memory SPD
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

DIMM #1

General
Memory type DDR
Manufacturer (ID) Micron Technology (2CFFFFFFFFFFFFFF)
Size 512 MBytes
Max bandwidth PC3200 (200 MHz)
Part number 16VDDF6464AG-40BG1
Serial number 37224D5A
Manufacturing date Week 71/Year 05

Attributes
Number of banks 2
Data width 64 bits
Correction None
Registered no
Buffered no
EPP no

Timings table
Frequency (MHz) 133 166 200
CAS# 2.0 2.5 3.0
RAS# to CAS# delay 2 3 3
RAS# Precharge 2 3 3
TRAS 6 7 8



DIMM #2

General
Memory type DDR
Manufacturer (ID) Micron Technology (2CFFFFFFFFFFFFFF)
Size 512 MBytes
Max bandwidth PC3200 (200 MHz)
Part number 8VDDT6464AY-40BD1
Serial number D4168B13
Manufacturing date Week 06/Year 07

Attributes
Number of banks 1
Data width 64 bits
Correction None
Registered no
Buffered no
EPP no

Timings table
Frequency (MHz) 133 166 200
CAS# 2.0 2.5 3.0
RAS# to CAS# delay 2 3 3
RAS# Precharge 2 3 3
TRAS 6 7 8



Dump Module #1
0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 A B C D E F
00 80 08 07 0D 0A 02 40 00 04 50 70 00 82 08 00 01
10 0E 04 1C 01 02 20 C0 60 70 75 75 3C 28 3C 28 40
20 60 60 40 40 00 00 00 00 00 37 46 30 28 50 00 11
30 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 11 91
40 2C FF FF FF FF FF FF FF 01 31 36 56 44 44 46 36
50 34 36 34 41 47 2D 34 30 42 47 31 01 00 05 47 37
60 22 4D 5A 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
70 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00


Dump Module #2
0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 A B C D E F
00 80 08 07 0D 0B 01 40 00 04 50 70 00 82 08 00 01
10 0E 04 1C 01 02 20 C0 60 70 75 75 3C 28 3C 28 80
20 60 60 40 40 00 00 00 00 00 37 46 30 28 50 00 01
30 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 11 C1
40 2C FF FF FF FF FF FF FF 08 38 56 44 44 54 36 34
50 36 34 41 59 2D 34 30 42 44 31 20 01 00 07 06 D4
60 16 8B 13 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
70 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00

 

[Frank McCoy]

In alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt "Teknowbabble"

I took your advice and ran CPU-Z. Here's the relevant printout

Hmmm ... CPU-Z, huh?
Obviously another utility I need to get.

 

[Frank McCoy]

In alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt "Teknowbabble"


Hmmm ... CPU-Z, huh?
Obviously another utility I need to get.

Got it.
*Nice* utility. Thanks for the steer.
Beats CPUID all hollow.

Showed me something I should have known:
I got some new DDR400 memory, and was still running it at DDR333 rates.
A shame, since the mobo supports 200mhz.
So, I upped that; and it works fine.

But CPU-Z showed me something else:
My AMD Athalon(tm) XP 2400+ ... Runs at 2000mhz (plus or minus a few).
No way will my board run at 160mhz clock (what's needed to make the
thing run @ full 2400mhz). After trying various things, I begin to
suspect the "2400" is just hype from AMD. Is it, or is there something
I'm missing?

Anyway: A question:
Will I get more "performance" running the clock at 133mhz, the DRAM at
200mhz, and the CPU-speed at 2000mhz (my default now), or overclocking
it to 150mhz (where it runs without dying) to where I have the DRAM at
183, and the CPU-speed at about 2250mhz?

Anybody have any guesses as to which is overall "faster"?
Or (my feeling anyway) is it about a wash?

(Or, is there something I'm missing?)

Oh yeah: My motherboard is a Soyo KT-600-8237 "Dragon Plus", running
with a one-gig DDR-400 memory SIMM.

It works great (Better now, with the faster memory).
Still, every bit of improvment is appreciated.

 

[Thomas Wendell]

Inline:

Got it.
*Nice* utility. Thanks for the steer.
Beats CPUID all hollow.

Showed me something I should have known:
I got some new DDR400 memory, and was still running it at DDR333
rates. A shame, since the mobo supports 200mhz.
So, I upped that; and it works fine.

But CPU-Z showed me something else:
My AMD Athalon(tm) XP 2400+ ... Runs at 2000mhz (plus or minus a few).
No way will my board run at 160mhz clock (what's needed to make the
thing run @ full 2400mhz). After trying various things, I begin to
suspect the "2400" is just hype from AMD. Is it, or is there
something I'm missing?

Yes, it's how AMD ranks their processors, not by speed but by "PowerRating",
ie. roughly comparing to some Intel Pentium4 processor speeds..

Your's is running at its spec'd speed:
Basic Specs

http://www.cluboverclocker.com/reviews/cpu/amd/xp2400/index.htm

CPU: 2.0 GHz
Cache: 256K
BUS: 266MHz DDR (133MHz FSB)
Socket: Socket-A

Anyway: A question:
Will I get more "performance" running the clock at 133mhz, the DRAM at
200mhz, and the CPU-speed at 2000mhz (my default now), or overclocking
it to 150mhz (where it runs without dying) to where I have the DRAM at
183, and the CPU-speed at about 2250mhz?

Anybody have any guesses as to which is overall "faster"?
Or (my feeling anyway) is it about a wash?

(Or, is there something I'm missing?)

Oh yeah: My motherboard is a Soyo KT-600-8237 "Dragon Plus", running
with a one-gig DDR-400 memory SIMM.

It works great (Better now, with the faster memory).
Still, every bit of improvment is appreciated.

--
Tumppi
=================================
A lot learned from these newsgroups
Helsinki, FINLAND
(translations from/to FI not always accurate
=================================

 

[Frank McCoy]

In alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt "Thomas Wendell"

Yes, it's how AMD ranks their processors, not by speed but by "PowerRating",
ie. roughly comparing to some Intel Pentium4 processor speeds..

Your's is running at its spec'd speed:
Basic Specs

http://www.cluboverclocker.com/reviews/cpu/amd/xp2400/index.htm

CPU: 2.0 GHz
Cache: 256K
BUS: 266MHz DDR (133MHz FSB)
Socket: Socket-A

Thanks.
That's what I figured.
Overclocking it doesn't seem to gain much at all, if anything; as (with
my motherboard) I have to then slow down the memory-bandwidth even more
to keep it under 200mhz (The DDR400 rating) since the two are somewhat
locked together on my SOYO board; the memory-speed increasing or
decreasing in segments of about 1/4 the basic clock-speed, or 1/8 the
FSB. The memory-chip just *does not* like to be clocked above that rate
by even a few percent. Works fine at that speed though.

I guess this motherboard/CPU/memory combination just isn't a good
candidate for overclocking.

Oh well.
Thanks again.