"Dell's halo is fading"

[nobody]

Apple is the other alternative: I like some of the PowerBooks,
especially the 12". But that is opening a whole new can of worms. Not
only are the PowerBooks more expensive to buy, but they only come with
3 months of phone support and a 1 year parts warranty, and it costs
$350 to get a 3 year warranty. Plus, you have to replace all of your
software, and then replace it *again* when Apple goes to the Intel
processor. Plus, there is the whole Apple proprietary way of doing
things, which some people may have strong feelings about.

Buying overpriced Apple to be unable to run anything from my list of
must-haves? I highly doubt MS will ever put out a version of IIS or
Visual Studio or SQL Server for MacOS. Even when Apple goes Intel, it
would take reformatting and installing Windows on hardware that
officially does not support such config, or make it dual-boot, file
system permitting, losing the warranty and support in the process -
does not make much sense to me.

NNN

 

[Yousuf Khan]

When they moved the corporate support to India(?) the hue and cry was
sufficient to get them to reverse that move and bring it back to N.
America. I haven't heard anything about moving consumer sakes back. BTW
did you read the comments in the article about Toshiba's Toronto call
center? Apparently some callers believe they're being routed to India
because the area has a large Indian population and some of the reps are of
Indian origins.

Oh yeah, I can believe it, and I don't even have to read about it. A
friend of mine works in a call centre for an ISP which has its call
centre in Ottawa. He is of East Indian-origin, but he's lived in Canada
for over 30 years, so he doesn't have a heavy accent by any means.

Anyways, several times he's heard customers complain about being
transferred to India for tech support, until he explained to them that
they were actually talking to someone in Canada, and then their attitude
changes to something more conciliatory. Recently, he helped fix a
problem for a customer, and he thought everything went just fine.
However, after they received back a customer evaluation report from this
customer, the customer complained about not understanding anything that
was said (even though his problem got fixed), and he kept bringing up
complaints about "India" in his comments.

So I don't think it's so much a problem with understanding Indian
accents that Americans have a problem with, but anything and everything
foreign. Mike MacDonald a Canadian comic who lives in the US now
quipped, "Canadians look like Americans, sound like Americans, eat the
same foods as Americans; basically it's everything Americans are looking
for in a /foreign/ country".

Yousuf Khan

 

[Yousuf Khan]

Oh, come on. Mickey might be Zionist (all Jews are to lesser or
greater extent), but not enough Zionist to move his HQ to the place
with near-Communist political system and mindset, unions trampling the
corporations, taxes so pinching that US corporate tax rate would seem
light tickling in comparison. On top of that, real estate prices and
taxes are multiples of US ones. Add to that unrelenting terror -
proportionally to the numbers of population, Israel suffers 9/11 every
year. And don't discount ever-present threat to wipe Israel off the
map - it will be not much consolation that all surrounding Arab
countries will go up in a puff of nuclear smoke in the process of
eliminating the "illegal Zionist entity" as they always regarded the
state of Israel.

Well, Intel has got at least one Fab there in Israel. Possibly a second
one coming soon too. If Intel can have a multi-billion dollar factory
there, as well as a fairly extensive (and expensive) design team,
despite all of the "near-communism", then what difficulty would it be to
put a mere corporate HQ there?

Yousuf Khan

 

[George Macdonald]

On Sat, 10 Dec 2005 19:32:44 -0500, George Macdonald


As far as I can tell, the Python script has to do with the "Rapid
Restore" utility. Rapid Restore loads as a service by default and that
may run the Python script. You can do a clean install using the OS
packaged with the recovery disks (read the thread on thinkpads.com),
but it is a real PITA. I simply used an OEM XP disk I have from
another system and the product code on the ThinkPad's sticker to get a
clean install.

Ah good and thanks for the info - I've wondered if you could do that... use
any WinXP install and the code from another disk.

 

[nobody]

Well, Intel has got at least one Fab there in Israel. Possibly a second
one coming soon too. If Intel can have a multi-billion dollar factory
there, as well as a fairly extensive (and expensive) design team,
despite all of the "near-communism", then what difficulty would it be to
put a mere corporate HQ there?

Yousuf Khan

While the risk of destruction of the state of Israel is real, it's
still regarded low enough to justify the fabs, especially with the
perks and slacks Israeli government cuts to Intel (look much like
Communism when the decision to build the fab is made by government's
politically motivated handout, not the free market). When it's only a
couple of fabs out of many, the risk is bearable - not more than the
risk of Communist government taking over foreign physical and
intellectual property in China. HQ, unlike the fabs, is one and only.

The risk of an individual to be murdered or maimed by suicide bomber
in Israel is orders of magnitude higher - more than that of catching
bird flu, SARS, and AIDS in Asia, combined. Andy Grove (the design
team was put there under his watch) bet Intel's money - the loss of
some leading figure in the team to terror would be painful - but not
his own skin. Nor his own individual taxes - at his income level the
Israeli tax would be exorbitant. Why Mickey Dell would have more
Zionist zeal than Grove, the Holocaust survivor?

Since Intel makes in Israel only half-finished product, all of which
is exported for further processing, the taxes on the product are
relatively modest. The blueprints (have no better term) produced by
the design team, while may be priceless (PM design, for instance),
can't be taxed as a product. Not so if the company were HQ-ed there -
all revenues worldwide would be subject to taxes.

To sum it up, Cayman Islands looks much more like the possible HQ
offshoring destination than Israel - if it ever comes to that type of
offshoring.

NNN

 

[Gary L.]

Ah good and thanks for the info - I've wondered if you could do that... use
any WinXP install and the code from another disk.

I think it has to be an *OEM* disk to match the OEM activation code on
the ThinkPad's sticker. Based on what I've read, I believe that you
can't use a retail version disk with an OEM code and vice-versa, but I
haven't actually tested this. The pre-load XP that comes with the
machine uses an activation code in a file on the recovery disk and
this doesn't require activation at all, but I think that the machine
type in the BIOS has to match or else the installation is aborted.

Someone on thinkpads.com figured out a way to make a bootable install
CD using the pre-load activation code and the install files in the
I386 directory, but skipping the installation of the drivers and the
packaged utilities (Norton AV, etc.) Take a look at the thread on
thinkpads.com if you're interested.

 

[nobody]

I think it has to be an *OEM* disk to match the OEM activation code on
the ThinkPad's sticker. Based on what I've read, I believe that you
can't use a retail version disk with an OEM code and vice-versa, but I
haven't actually tested this. The pre-load XP that comes with the
machine uses an activation code in a file on the recovery disk and
this doesn't require activation at all, but I think that the machine
type in the BIOS has to match or else the installation is aborted.

Someone on thinkpads.com figured out a way to make a bootable install
CD using the pre-load activation code and the install files in the
I386 directory, but skipping the installation of the drivers and the
packaged utilities (Norton AV, etc.) Take a look at the thread on
thinkpads.com if you're interested.

Since, from legal standpoint, using that IBM-specific activation code
on non-IBM OEM CD is as much a violation as any piracy, it's even
easier to use MSDN or corporate setup CD (images abundant on eDonkey
and such) and generate a key with one of the many keygens available
from the same source. You are in violation of license agreement
anyway, and that corporate Pro (not stinky Home like many OEM/preloads
are) version doesn't even check for the BIOS or something else
matching the number, no activation required.

NNN

 

[Gary L.]

Since, from legal standpoint, using that IBM-specific activation code
on non-IBM OEM CD is as much a violation as any piracy ....

[snip]

I'm not an expert on the Microsoft EULA, but I doubt that using a
"non-IBM OEM CD" is a violation of the Agreement. The issue is whether
you have a license for the software that you install. In this case,
the ThinkPad comes with a license for one copy of XP Pro, and the
activation code for that license may be found on the sticker on the
bottom of the computer. The particular install media used (backup copy
on hard disk, a recovery CD set, or a generic OEM XP Pro CD) is
irrelevant to the licensing issue. I think you are within your rights
to use any install media as long as you have a proper license.

I dislike the Microsoft product activation and I am not worried about
whether the richest man in the world gets even richer. But my
suggestion was merely an idea of getting a clean install without the
extra utilities getting installed. It was not a suggestion as to how
to circumvent Windows licensing and activation.

 

[z]

Quoted from PCWorld's latest Reliability & Service survey:
http://www.pcworld.com/reviews/article/0,aid,123409,pg,1,00.asp. I
hadn't realized how far things had gone here: e.g. on its low-end
systems, they have a 90-day warranty and for ~$25. you can get it
extended to 1-year.... is that nuts or what? Makes ya wonder how many
bad capacitors it'd take to sink the company; when you stretch the
elastic that far, the snap-back can be vicious.

I just beefed up this old dell optiplex pentium III (450 mhz or
something) we've been using as a linux file server in the office.

I was amazed how well built it was compared to the new ones they sell.
The case was heavy, the drive bays were heavy duty and easy to access.
The CD rom slid in with clips, there was room for 4 HDs (in a desktop
case). I plugged in a 300 gig drive and the bios didn't have a cow.
This old thing has been running 24/7 for 3 or 4 years, and now with the
extra drives etc I expect it to continue being a very usefull device for
a long time to come.

I'd had to deal with some newer dells and ya .. they suck ass.

At one time Dell really did make good stuff though. If I see any of
those old PIII optiplexes i'd buy another one in a heart beat.

 

[Felger Carbon]

I just beefed up this old dell optiplex pentium III (450 mhz or
something) we've been using as a linux file server in the office.

I was amazed how well built it was compared to the new ones they sell.
The case was heavy, the drive bays were heavy duty and easy to access.
The CD rom slid in with clips, there was room for 4 HDs (in a desktop
case). I plugged in a 300 gig drive and the bios didn't have a cow.
This old thing has been running 24/7 for 3 or 4 years, and now with the
extra drives etc I expect it to continue being a very usefull device for
a long time to come.

I'd had to deal with some newer dells and ya .. they suck ass.

At one time Dell really did make good stuff though. If I see any of
those old PIII optiplexes i'd buy another one in a heart beat.

Why don't you dig up the old invoice or sales slip and let us know how
much you paid for that 450MHz PIII Dell Optiplex in 2005 dollars.
Would you be willing to pay that much, today, for a replacement
computer? You gets what you is willin' to pay for. ;-)

 

[George Macdonald]

I think it has to be an *OEM* disk to match the OEM activation code on
the ThinkPad's sticker. Based on what I've read, I believe that you
can't use a retail version disk with an OEM code and vice-versa, but I
haven't actually tested this. The pre-load XP that comes with the
machine uses an activation code in a file on the recovery disk and
this doesn't require activation at all, but I think that the machine
type in the BIOS has to match or else the installation is aborted.

Someone on thinkpads.com figured out a way to make a bootable install
CD using the pre-load activation code and the install files in the
I386 directory, but skipping the installation of the drivers and the
packaged utilities (Norton AV, etc.) Take a look at the thread on
thinkpads.com if you're interested.

Yeah, like everybody else I was pissed about not getting any install CD
with those Thinkpads. Making the recovery disks, all 6 or so CDs, is a
PITA as well; in fact the earlier ones have no way to make a recovery disk
at all. I keep meaning to use BartPE to make an "installable" CD from the
i386 folder but I'll take a look at thinkpads.com.

 

[nobody]

Since, from legal standpoint, using that IBM-specific activation code
on non-IBM OEM CD is as much a violation as any piracy ....

[snip]

I'm not an expert on the Microsoft EULA, but I doubt that using a
"non-IBM OEM CD" is a violation of the Agreement. The issue is whether
you have a license for the software that you install. In this case,
the ThinkPad comes with a license for one copy of XP Pro, and the
activation code for that license may be found on the sticker on the
bottom of the computer. The particular install media used (backup copy
on hard disk, a recovery CD set, or a generic OEM XP Pro CD) is
irrelevant to the licensing issue. I think you are within your rights
to use any install media as long as you have a proper license.

I dislike the Microsoft product activation and I am not worried about
whether the richest man in the world gets even richer. But my
suggestion was merely an idea of getting a clean install without the
extra utilities getting installed. It was not a suggestion as to how
to circumvent Windows licensing and activation.

Same here. AFAIK someplace in EULA in small print you'll find that
you can use this OEM disk only in conjunction with the particular
piece of hardware it was acquired together with (you need to buy a PC
or at least something like a harddrive or a motherboard to be eligible
to buy OEM XP). So in the books of laws you may be in violation. But
IMHO you already paid for Windows when you bought the laptop, so, if
that Windows is screwed up by some 'value added' junkware, you have
every right to make it straight, and you should be free to use any
tool you find convenient, be it OEM disk you've bought with some other
piece of hardware, or a corporate version you've downloaded or
borrowed from work. It's just that to me, corporate version is the
easiest to install.

NNN

 

[z]

Why don't you dig up the old invoice or sales slip and let us know how
much you paid for that 450MHz PIII Dell Optiplex in 2005 dollars.
Would you be willing to pay that much, today, for a replacement
computer? You gets what you is willin' to pay for. ;-)

Yes good point. They weren't that cheap. We ususally build our own
machines with quality parts that do cost more than your average DELL.

I think we got this one used in the first place

 

[Tony Hill]

Since, from legal standpoint, using that IBM-specific activation code
on non-IBM OEM CD is as much a violation as any piracy, it's even

I don't believe that is the case. Microsoft's EULA is, generally
speaking, for the license of Windows, not for the physical media on
which it's obtained. The Certificate of Authenticity (aka Product
Key) is what really matters, not what disk you use to install Windows
with.

As a bit of a side note though, this whole deal with install disks is
one of the things that HPaq did right (for their business systems).
Every Compaq/HP business system I've seen in the past 3-5 years comes
with a bone-stock OEM WinXP disk. The recommended procedure for the
systems is to install using their Restore disk, however if you want a
straight WinXP install with no drivers or bundled software, the
Operating System disk will do the trick for you, no questions asked.

 

[Neil Maxwell]

While the risk of destruction of the state of Israel is real, it's
still regarded low enough to justify the fabs, especially with the
perks and slacks Israeli government cuts to Intel (look much like
Communism when the decision to build the fab is made by government's
politically motivated handout, not the free market).

Note that the same government concessions are used pretty much
anywhere that a fab is built.

Intel builds new fabs in Oregon, Arizona, and Ireland, but not in
California, due in part to the willingness of the local governments to
work with them on such things. Considering a fab, once built, will be
in production for a minimum of 10 years and is not easily outsourced
(like software, for instance), it's a pretty good investment in the
state's or nation's economic infrastructure.

 

[Neil Maxwell]

Yeah, like everybody else I was pissed about not getting any install CD
with those Thinkpads. Making the recovery disks, all 6 or so CDs, is a
PITA as well; in fact the earlier ones have no way to make a recovery disk
at all. I keep meaning to use BartPE to make an "installable" CD from the
i386 folder but I'll take a look at thinkpads.com.

My dad's latest Dell didn't come with recovery disks or a way to make
them - it was on a hidden partition, which is not much good if your HD
dies.

I made a True Image (www.acronis.com) copy of the as-delivered setup,
and then again when we got all his software loaded and configured (as
well as automated daily backups). It's hard to beat that for fast
recovery, and it's independent of the vendors.

 

[George Macdonald]

My dad's latest Dell didn't come with recovery disks or a way to make
them - it was on a hidden partition, which is not much good if your HD
dies.

I made a True Image (www.acronis.com) copy of the as-delivered setup,
and then again when we got all his software loaded and configured (as
well as automated daily backups). It's hard to beat that for fast
recovery, and it's independent of the vendors.

Yeah that's a good way to handle it too. I've used BootitNG's image copy
feature -- also has a great partition manager which boots off a floppy,
CD-R or thumb drive -- and of course, now with DVD+/-R it's nice that it
fits on a single disk. Maybe I'm old-fashioned but I still also like to
use a "proper" backup program like BackupMyPC for ongoing safety.