Dell Latitude C-600 blues

[Dan]

My P3 laptop had been working fine until recently when it started this
really disappointing habit of shutting down unceremoniously--no blue
screen, no dialog, nothing. Certainly, the problem was related to
processor overheating. Easy to figure this out because on cool weather
or in AC room the problem was not so frequent. I surfed the web up and
down for solution, and learned that the BIOS had temperature for
processor cooling fan to start running set too high. Indeed the fan
was not spinning at all.
I entered bios to change the value, but there is no place I could
change the value.
I then got a free handy utility i could install (Dell Latitude Fan
Control by Christian Diefer) which could be set what temperature the
fan would start to spin, or even to spin all the time. It also
displayed processor temperature on the system tray.
It seemed to solve my problem, but unfortunately it is not supported
by older OSs as Win 98 (my latitude is a dual-boot, i do have some
apps i run on win98 that can't run on xp).
That brings me here, to learn if there is anyone who could tell me how
to go about and set the bios temperature to something low, like 30. I
had even downloaded the bios upgrade, but when I attempted to install
it i was told that my bios is the latest version, didn't require
upgrade. Pls assist.

 

[~misfit~]

My P3 laptop had been working fine until recently when it started this
really disappointing habit of shutting down unceremoniously--no blue
screen, no dialog, nothing. Certainly, the problem was related to
processor overheating. Easy to figure this out because on cool weather
or in AC room the problem was not so frequent. I surfed the web up and
down for solution, and learned that the BIOS had temperature for
processor cooling fan to start running set too high. Indeed the fan
was not spinning at all.
I entered bios to change the value, but there is no place I could
change the value.
I then got a free handy utility i could install (Dell Latitude Fan
Control by Christian Diefer) which could be set what temperature the
fan would start to spin, or even to spin all the time. It also
displayed processor temperature on the system tray.
It seemed to solve my problem, but unfortunately it is not supported
by older OSs as Win 98 (my latitude is a dual-boot, i do have some
apps i run on win98 that can't run on xp).
That brings me here, to learn if there is anyone who could tell me how
to go about and set the bios temperature to something low, like 30. I
had even downloaded the bios upgrade, but when I attempted to install
it i was told that my bios is the latest version, didn't require
upgrade. Pls assist.

I use a programme called 'Notebook Hardware Control' on my ThinkPad running
XP. Perhaps it will run on 98? (You can do the Googling, I'm just throwing
out a clue...)

 

[Paul]

My P3 laptop had been working fine until recently when it started this
really disappointing habit of shutting down unceremoniously--no blue
screen, no dialog, nothing. Certainly, the problem was related to
processor overheating. Easy to figure this out because on cool weather
or in AC room the problem was not so frequent. I surfed the web up and
down for solution, and learned that the BIOS had temperature for
processor cooling fan to start running set too high. Indeed the fan
was not spinning at all.
I entered bios to change the value, but there is no place I could
change the value.
I then got a free handy utility i could install (Dell Latitude Fan
Control by Christian Diefer) which could be set what temperature the
fan would start to spin, or even to spin all the time. It also
displayed processor temperature on the system tray.
It seemed to solve my problem, but unfortunately it is not supported
by older OSs as Win 98 (my latitude is a dual-boot, i do have some
apps i run on win98 that can't run on xp).
That brings me here, to learn if there is anyone who could tell me how
to go about and set the bios temperature to something low, like 30. I
had even downloaded the bios upgrade, but when I attempted to install
it i was told that my bios is the latest version, didn't require
upgrade. Pls assist.

There is reference on this page, to a DOS version of the program.
Perhaps the DOS version could be run while in Win98 ? Maybe the
supported laptops are not the same, for the two program versions.

http://www.diefer.de/i8kfan/index.html

http://www.diefer.de/i8kfan/i8kfan.html

Are the vents clear ? Is there a cleaning procedure
for removing hairballs from the cooling path ?

Paul

 

[Dan]

There is reference on this page, to a DOS version of the program.
Perhaps the DOS version could be run while in Win98 ? Maybe the
supported laptops are not the same, for the two program versions.

http://www.diefer.de/i8kfan/index.html

http://www.diefer.de/i8kfan/i8kfan.html

Are the vents clear ? Is there a cleaning procedure
for removing hairballs from the cooling path ?

    Paul

Thanks I'll try this DOS thingy if there is one for C600. On clearing
airpath, there is no clutter or anything. Indeed when the fan wasn't
rotating I'd suspected a loose cable where fan lead plugs into
something so i opened it (have service manual). The path is short and
clean-fan sucks air from the bottom and whooshes it over the heat sink
seated--screwed rather--on the processor.
BTW when I run processor-intensive activity and the processor
temperature rises to around 54, the thing crashes even when the fan is
blowing.
I wonder if it is something to do with that white paste smeared on the
processor-sink contact having broken down or expired or something.

 

[Paul]

Thanks I'll try this DOS thingy if there is one for C600. On clearing
airpath, there is no clutter or anything. Indeed when the fan wasn't
rotating I'd suspected a loose cable where fan lead plugs into
something so i opened it (have service manual). The path is short and
clean-fan sucks air from the bottom and whooshes it over the heat sink
seated--screwed rather--on the processor.
BTW when I run processor-intensive activity and the processor
temperature rises to around 54, the thing crashes even when the fan is
blowing.
I wonder if it is something to do with that white paste smeared on the
processor-sink contact having broken down or expired or something.

The factory fitted thermal interface materials are pretty good.
(Some of those are semi-solids and not paste as such. They melt
to conform to the surface, and are designed to not pump out.)
If you removed the heatsink and used your own paste, sometimes
you have to repeat the application (clean and reapply) every
couple of years. I take note of whether my CPU temp differential
has shifted by more than 5C to 10C, before I take it apart and
redo it.

Crashing at 54C doesn't sound normal. Are you sure the GPU
doesn't share the same heatsink and heatpipe assembly ?
Perhaps the GPU is the source of the crash. Is there a
theme to which software process shows in the blue screen ?
Is it always a video driver problem, for example ?
Is there anything at all left in the Event Viewer ?

Here are some possible symptoms

1) Computer shuts off. This can happen on a modern CPU, if
the CPU gets too hot, and a CPU feature called THERMTRIP
is triggered. That signal is used to power off the
computer, instantly. Some older computers may not have
that feature, and if they have a feature similar to that,
it is emulated.

2) Crash with blue screen. If automatic restart is disabled, you
get to see the blue screen. If Automatic Restart is enabled, then
you may see an entry in the Event Viewer, if you're lucky. To change
the setting, use the System control panel, Advanced tab.
Recording where the errors are occurring, can tell you
what subsystem is involved.

3) You can have a system restart spontaneously, without any blue
screen or Event Viewer entry. These are the annoying failures,
because you cannot tell what is triggering it. Something that
affects the system hardware Reset signal could do it. I could
probably write a small piece of code to do it. Bad electrolytic
capacitors in the Vcore circuit can do this.

4) A computer "freeze" is as simple to do, as getting some
piece of code (like the kernel), stuck in a loop. Sometimes
it is just the graphics system that is frozen. Using the
"ping" command from another computer, and pinging the frozen computer,
can help determine if it is really frozen. I've had computers
that would not respond to user input, but the network interface
was still working. To answer a ping, requires a little work
from the processor.

Those are just a few examples.

Paul

 

[Guest]

My P3 laptop had been working fine until recently when it started this
really disappointing habit of shutting down unceremoniously--no blue
screen, no dialog, nothing. Certainly, the problem was related to
processor overheating. Easy to figure this out because on cool weather
or in AC room the problem was not so frequent. I surfed the web up and
down for solution, and learned that the BIOS had temperature for
processor cooling fan to start running set too high. Indeed the fan
was not spinning at all.
I entered bios to change the value, but there is no place I could
change the value.
I then got a free handy utility i could install (Dell Latitude Fan
Control by Christian Diefer) which could be set what temperature the
fan would start to spin, or even to spin all the time. It also
displayed processor temperature on the system tray.
It seemed to solve my problem, but unfortunately it is not supported
by older OSs as Win 98 (my latitude is a dual-boot, i do have some
apps i run on win98 that can't run on xp).
That brings me here, to learn if there is anyone who could tell me how
to go about and set the bios temperature to something low, like 30. I
had even downloaded the bios upgrade, but when I attempted to install
it i was told that my bios is the latest version, didn't require
upgrade. Pls assist.

Sometimes it's helpful to expand your search for truth beyond
the obvious.

The fan also provides circulation to other parts of the system
that are not monitored by the processor sensor.
Same thing that causes processor to get hot also heats memory.

I had a laptop that shut down when hot. Turns out that one memory
SIMM was running MUCH hotter than the other. Replacing it fixed my
shutdown problem.

I'd also look at the other support chips. Sometimes there's
a thermal pad or other device to transfer heat from some of
the other chips to some internal metal part. On some systems,
the metal parts come together and are held down by a single screw.
Just mis-ordering the stack can cause thermally-connected parts
to become less thermally connected. If you're not the first
owner, putting it back the way it was may not be sufficient.

I've seen systems owned by smokers that had a thin film of tobacco
smoke on the heat sink that significantly reduced heat transfer.
And that's after you cleaned out the gunk completely filling
the heat sink cavities.

Don't underestimate the effect of system changes. Leaving out
the battery or the CDROM can significantly alter internal air flow.

Making the fan run all the time masks the problem. Might be
better to FIX the problem if you can.

 

[Dan]

Sometimes it's helpful to expand your search for truth beyond
the obvious.

The fan also provides circulation to other parts of the system
that are not monitored by the processor sensor.
Same thing that causes processor to get hot also heats memory.

I had a laptop that shut down when hot.  Turns out that one memory
SIMM was running MUCH hotter than the other.  Replacing it fixed my
shutdown problem.

I'd also look at the other support chips.  Sometimes there's
a thermal pad or other device to transfer heat from some of
the other chips to some internal metal part.  On some systems,
the metal parts come together and are held down by a single screw.
Just mis-ordering the stack can cause thermally-connected parts
to become less thermally connected.  If you're not the first
owner, putting it back the way it was may not be sufficient.

I've seen systems owned by smokers that had a thin film of tobacco
smoke on the heat sink that significantly reduced heat transfer.
And that's after you cleaned out the gunk completely filling
the heat sink cavities.

Don't underestimate the effect of system changes.  Leaving out
the battery or the CDROM can significantly alter internal air flow.

Making the fan run all the time masks the problem.  Might be
better to FIX the problem if you can.

I really appreciate your contributions. Results of my effort following
recent suggestions
- a link to the dos cpu fan utility no longer available, so i didn't
have chance to try it out.
- the laptop doesn't hang or throw blue screen--just goes off kind of
like someone yanking out power cable from a notebook without a battery
(mine has a healthy battery, though). Another little thing here: when
it "drops off" like that, if I attempt to re-start it right away, it
kinda shakes its head--i.e. the power and ide activity lights light up
for a couple of seconds, as if it's going to boot, then nothing
happens. no flicker on screen or error beep or anything.
- Event Viewer contains normal information, warning etc and few errors
(mostly referring to process called WZCSVC which i don't think has
anything to do with the bug in hand.

I am still inclined to think it's processor overheating rather than
ram board or something. I discovered this as follows: when the
notebook is restarted after cooling down for a spell, it, of course,
starts countdown for chkdsk. If I let chkdsk to run, it mostly drops
off even before the process. This is because the fan utility is yet to
load, and the chkdsk (30 GB) heats up the processor substantially.
Ever since discovering that I do skip chkdsk.

I'm coping fairly well with winxp: the problem is win98. I have half a
mind to find a fan that can be powered from usb port to place
underneath the notebook so that i can use my legacy programs that
won't run on winxp

 

[Dan]

If you mean this link, it worked for me:http://www.diefer.de/software/i8kfan10.zip






The question is what has changed.  System previously ran
with this fan speed without crashing, but now does.  Perhaps
your fan is almost worn out and sometimes does not start
when it should.  If it has a sleeve bearing, you might try
relubing it.    Monitor temperatures more closely, if it is
only at 54C that is not hot enough the CPU should crash.  I
would begin to wonder about intermittent circuit board
cracks, being effected by temperature change.  Unfortunately
laptops have been built as disposible items for many years
now and I can understand not wanting to give up on something
fast enough to do most common things but it may be at the
end of it's useful lifespan.

thanks for the link. The applet (loaded from command line, with 2
switches) seems to work fine - starts up the fan and terminates. I am
keeping watch, the thing has been running for 40 minutes already on
Win98, something it ain't done for days.

I'm not in a hurry to dump this eldery notebook as it otherwise works
well when it's cool enough, and handy to travel with--battery still
giving me good three hours of hard work.

So again thanks to all who chipped in.