Cumbersome DB refresh procedure.

[Guest]

We have a local (on the town office's C:\ drive) Access DB and a subset of
its data on our web site. Currently I have a module in the Access DB that
clears a copy to the web DB and then repopulates the data.

I'm using FP-2000 on my laptop to develop the town's web site. FP suggest
the DB is placed in a directory named FPDB at the same level as the web pages
while my service provider "requires" the DB placed in a directory called
DATABASES at the same as the PUBLIC directory housing the web pages. To KISS,
I'm using the databases directory structure on both web and local server.

Both the local and web server has FP extensions "on". The use of FP
extensions on the web site "locks" all the directories under the root (i.e.
both public and databases). Currently the only way I refresh the Web DB is to
log on to the web site and turn off the FP extensions (2-3 min to take
effect). FTP the local subset DB to the databases directory. After the
upload, log back onto the site and turn the FP extensions back on (4-5 min to
take effect). Log out and open FP to "republish" the web. For some reason I
have to do all not just changed pages, even if only the DB changed and no
pages was changed.

I want to somehow automate the process (i.e not having to go through the
above steps) so someone in the town office can refresh the data in the web
periodically.
Additionally the town currently does not have a copy of FP so some of the
steps could not be done or they would have to purchase a copy of FP.

I haven't work this angle before but was hoping to automate using the local
Access, e.g. code a module to connect to the web DB and refresh the data). My
understanding now is you can't connect to a HTTP/URL in Access.

Any suggestions...

Thanks
Jim T.

 

[Andrew Murray]

I believe the reason for the fpbd folder issue, is this is the particular
folder that Frontpage uses for its databases, which has the correct
read/write permissions access for databases by default without any mucking
around on the server and the one FP uses.

You can probably use any folder you like, as long as the correct read/write
permissions are correctly set and adjust the db connection information
accordingly (in the global.asa file).

I believe the point you are asking about, then is how to get frontpage to
connect to a database *above* the root folder (the public_html folder)?

It is common practice where a database houses sensitive information in a
folder "above" the root folder of the web site i.e. the directory level
above public_html which can't be seen or browsed by the public through a
browser, but a script can access it as it needs to.

This can't be accessed through Frontpage HTTP or FTP modes, but you can get
to it via a normal FTP program. That brings up another can of of worms,
concerning FTP vs the server extensions, which you've identifed as being a
problem.

Anyway that's not really the issue which is that you can use whatever
folder name you like as long as the permissions are set correctly and the db
connection information is correctly pointing to the right folder.

So your home page pathname would be something like
'/home/yourusername/public_html/' and the path for the database:
'/home/yourusername/databases' which is back one step from public_html and
down one step into 'databases' but above the 'root' so no one can browse it.

I hope that's what you're getting at......but one last thing - I don't know
what you mean "can't connect to an HTTP/URL in Access"


"jimt"

 

[Guest]

Thanks Andrew, you are reconfirming what I feared. I have no problem with the
connect on the host site (i.e the DB is in a directory on the same level as
the public). The problem is having to turn off and on the FP extension on the
host so I can FTP the DB up to the databases directory.

The second problem compounded by this is the fact on my localhost PC, I can
no longer test/debug etc since the local directory structure is a mirror of
the host. That is the DB is stored in C:\inetpub\databases while the local
web is associated with C:\inetpub\wwwroot. Because of the DB is one level up
(i.e. not part of the local web) the FP database connect wizard can not get
to the DB. This means in order to test I have to create the FPDB folder and
import the DB into it and then do the DB wizard connect. Before I publish I
must remember to delete the DB in the FPDB folder so it doesn't wind up under
the host's public directory.

FP provides a great service of change control, hit counter, and navigation
bar. But I'm beginning to look at the "issues/benefits" of using FP.

The last point is I was hoping to use my Access VBA skills to set an
automated process so the town clerk (the DB is for the town's assessment/tax
info) to refresh the data periodically. I posted a newsgroup question in the
Access newsgroup to see if it is possible to log into a PC containing the
"master" DB and execute a procedure to refresh the host DB data. The answer I
go was no, Access does not support DB connection via HTTP or FTP.

It looks like my best bet now is to remove the need for FP extensions and
train the town clerk to FTP the subset copy of the master DB to the host
(I've already written the code to clear and refresh a local copy of the DB
for FTP'ing)

If you see anything above that is incorrect or solutions that I have missed,
I would again appreciate your input.

Thanks
Jim T

 

[Stefan B Rusynko]

1) Check w/ your host if they have a control panel tool to stop/restart the server (while you FTP up the updated DB)

2) As for the difference in locations set up the DB connection as a DSN

--

_____________________________________________
SBR @ ENJOY (-: [ Microsoft MVP - FrontPage ]
"Warning - Using the F1 Key will not break anything!" (-;
To find the best Newsgroup for FrontPage support see:
http://www.frontpagemvps.com/FrontPageNewsGroups/tabid/53/Default.aspx
_____________________________________________


| Thanks Andrew, you are reconfirming what I feared. I have no problem with the
| connect on the host site (i.e the DB is in a directory on the same level as
| the public). The problem is having to turn off and on the FP extension on the
| host so I can FTP the DB up to the databases directory.
|
| The second problem compounded by this is the fact on my localhost PC, I can
| no longer test/debug etc since the local directory structure is a mirror of
| the host. That is the DB is stored in C:\inetpub\databases while the local
| web is associated with C:\inetpub\wwwroot. Because of the DB is one level up
| (i.e. not part of the local web) the FP database connect wizard can not get
| to the DB. This means in order to test I have to create the FPDB folder and
| import the DB into it and then do the DB wizard connect. Before I publish I
| must remember to delete the DB in the FPDB folder so it doesn't wind up under
| the host's public directory.
|
| FP provides a great service of change control, hit counter, and navigation
| bar. But I'm beginning to look at the "issues/benefits" of using FP.
|
| The last point is I was hoping to use my Access VBA skills to set an
| automated process so the town clerk (the DB is for the town's assessment/tax
| info) to refresh the data periodically. I posted a newsgroup question in the
| Access newsgroup to see if it is possible to log into a PC containing the
| "master" DB and execute a procedure to refresh the host DB data. The answer I
| go was no, Access does not support DB connection via HTTP or FTP.
|
| It looks like my best bet now is to remove the need for FP extensions and
| train the town clerk to FTP the subset copy of the master DB to the host
| (I've already written the code to clear and refresh a local copy of the DB
| for FTP'ing)
|
| If you see anything above that is incorrect or solutions that I have missed,
| I would again appreciate your input.
|
| Thanks
| Jim T
|
| "Andrew Murray" wrote:
|
| > I believe the reason for the fpbd folder issue, is this is the particular
| > folder that Frontpage uses for its databases, which has the correct
| > read/write permissions access for databases by default without any mucking
| > around on the server and the one FP uses.
| >
| > You can probably use any folder you like, as long as the correct read/write
| > permissions are correctly set and adjust the db connection information
| > accordingly (in the global.asa file).
| >
| > I believe the point you are asking about, then is how to get frontpage to
| > connect to a database *above* the root folder (the public_html folder)?
| >
| > It is common practice where a database houses sensitive information in a
| > folder "above" the root folder of the web site i.e. the directory level
| > above public_html which can't be seen or browsed by the public through a
| > browser, but a script can access it as it needs to.
| >
| > This can't be accessed through Frontpage HTTP or FTP modes, but you can get
| > to it via a normal FTP program. That brings up another can of of worms,
| > concerning FTP vs the server extensions, which you've identifed as being a
| > problem.
| >
| > Anyway that's not really the issue which is that you can use whatever
| > folder name you like as long as the permissions are set correctly and the db
| > connection information is correctly pointing to the right folder.
| >
| > So your home page pathname would be something like
| > '/home/yourusername/public_html/' and the path for the database:
| > '/home/yourusername/databases' which is back one step from public_html and
| > down one step into 'databases' but above the 'root' so no one can browse it.
| >
| > I hope that's what you're getting at......but one last thing - I don't know
| > what you mean "can't connect to an HTTP/URL in Access"
| >
| >
| > "jimt"
| >
| > | > > We have a local (on the town office's C:\ drive) Access DB and a subset of
| > > its data on our web site. Currently I have a module in the Access DB that
| > > clears a copy to the web DB and then repopulates the data.
| > >
| > > I'm using FP-2000 on my laptop to develop the town's web site. FP suggest
| > > the DB is placed in a directory named FPDB at the same level as the web
| > > pages
| > > while my service provider "requires" the DB placed in a directory called
| > > DATABASES at the same as the PUBLIC directory housing the web pages. To
| > > KISS,
| > > I'm using the databases directory structure on both web and local server.
| > >
| > > Both the local and web server has FP extensions "on". The use of FP
| > > extensions on the web site "locks" all the directories under the root
| > > (i.e. > both public and databases). Currently the only way I refresh the
| > > Web DB is to
| > > log on to the web site and turn off the FP extensions (2-3 min to take
| > > effect). FTP the local subset DB to the databases directory. After the
| > > upload, log back onto the site and turn the FP extensions back on (4-5 min
| > > to
| > > take effect). Log out and open FP to "republish" the web. For some reason
| > > I
| > > have to do all not just changed pages, even if only the DB changed and no
| > > pages was changed.
| > >
| > > I want to somehow automate the process (i.e not having to go through the
| > > above steps) so someone in the town office can refresh the data in the web
| > > periodically.
| > > Additionally the town currently does not have a copy of FP so some of the
| > > steps could not be done or they would have to purchase a copy of FP.
| > >
| > > I haven't work this angle before but was hoping to automate using the
| > > local
| > > Access, e.g. code a module to connect to the web DB and refresh the data).
| > > My
| > > understanding now is you can't connect to a HTTP/URL in Access.
| > >
| > > Any suggestions...
| > >
| > > Thanks
| > > Jim T.
| > >
| >
| >
| >

 

[Clark]

I have a website with an Access database that needs to be periodically
updated in the fpdb folder.

I routinely do this by simply ftp'ing a revised Access database up to
the site, replacing the one already there (I dont use FP for the ftp
process, I happen to use CuteFTP).

I dont have to bother re-importing the database into FP and
publishing, or worry about corrupting the extensions so long as the
structure of the database I ftp up is the same as the one that was
there. And I have never encountered a problem with this approach.

Now -- Stefan -- I have occasionally wondered about what would happen
if someone were trying to search the database right at the same time I
was ftp'ing in an updated versionto the site (a low probability of
happening). I have assumed that, at worst, the search would fail,
which is no biggie. But -- am I living on the edge here? Is there a
downside I am missing? Because if not, just doing it the way I am is
really simple and fast.

Thanks

 

[Guest]

Clark,

I'm pretty new at this web development stuff so... Anyway my understanding
from "experts" and my ISP host provider is (what I started with as well) if
the FPDB directory is under the public directory with the rest of the web
pages the DB is suceptable to "hackers", i.e it is not a secure directory. I
also ask, what if the priv.are set on the directory and the answer was "it's
still not secure". The only way to protect your DB is to move from under
public (i.e under the root directory and not under public). So it look like a
structural dead lock... FP says FPDB and "I'll" manage the DB along with the
other change control effort; while the host provider(s)(?-not sure all but
certainally mine) says not FPDB under root (in fact my provider says
directory name databases not FPDB). Once it's out from under the FP Web
directory structure, FP does not upload it and the host with the FP
Extensions "on" will not allow FTP.

However yesterday I discovered how to solve another problem with the
localhost setup. I wanted to keep the relative directory structure levels the
same for both locak and host. I created a "databases" directory (like the
host) under the localhost directory (c:\inetpub instead of
c:\inetpub\wwwroot). I used sharepoint to set up a virtual drive and linked
it to c:\inetpub\databases\mydb.mdb. I can now test locally without importing
the DB each time to FPDB.

Thanks
Jim T.

 

[Guest]

Stefan,

Thanks for your help. My host indicates to me that their "stop" extension is
the "uninstall" the extensions they provide in their site management console.
I seems like a somewhat radical way of doing it but I certainally not an
expert
on the subject.

I have the DB connection working now on both the host and the localhost.
Since my web host REQUIRES the DB to reside in a directory named "databases"
under the site root directory, I have created a similar structure on my PC
(i.e C:\inetpub\databasees). I used sharepoint to create a virtural
directory to this directory as part of the "default" localhost. The virtual
directory thereby allowed me to use the FP web options to "connect" to the DB
in the databases directory.

Thanks again
Jim T.

1) Check w/ your host if they have a control panel tool to stop/restart the server (while you FTP up the updated DB)

2) As for the difference in locations set up the DB connection as a DSN

--

_____________________________________________
SBR @ ENJOY (-: [ Microsoft MVP - FrontPage ]
"Warning - Using the F1 Key will not break anything!" (-;
To find the best Newsgroup for FrontPage support see:
http://www.frontpagemvps.com/FrontPageNewsGroups/tabid/53/Default.aspx
_____________________________________________


| Thanks Andrew, you are reconfirming what I feared. I have no problem with the
| connect on the host site (i.e the DB is in a directory on the same level as
| the public). The problem is having to turn off and on the FP extension on the
| host so I can FTP the DB up to the databases directory.
|
| The second problem compounded by this is the fact on my localhost PC, I can
| no longer test/debug etc since the local directory structure is a mirror of
| the host. That is the DB is stored in C:\inetpub\databases while the local
| web is associated with C:\inetpub\wwwroot. Because of the DB is one level up
| (i.e. not part of the local web) the FP database connect wizard can not get
| to the DB. This means in order to test I have to create the FPDB folder and
| import the DB into it and then do the DB wizard connect. Before I publish I
| must remember to delete the DB in the FPDB folder so it doesn't wind up under
| the host's public directory.
|
| FP provides a great service of change control, hit counter, and navigation
| bar. But I'm beginning to look at the "issues/benefits" of using FP.
|
| The last point is I was hoping to use my Access VBA skills to set an
| automated process so the town clerk (the DB is for the town's assessment/tax
| info) to refresh the data periodically. I posted a newsgroup question in the
| Access newsgroup to see if it is possible to log into a PC containing the
| "master" DB and execute a procedure to refresh the host DB data. The answer I
| go was no, Access does not support DB connection via HTTP or FTP.
|
| It looks like my best bet now is to remove the need for FP extensions and
| train the town clerk to FTP the subset copy of the master DB to the host
| (I've already written the code to clear and refresh a local copy of the DB
| for FTP'ing)
|
| If you see anything above that is incorrect or solutions that I have missed,
| I would again appreciate your input.
|
| Thanks
| Jim T
|
| "Andrew Murray" wrote:
|
| > I believe the reason for the fpbd folder issue, is this is the particular
| > folder that Frontpage uses for its databases, which has the correct
| > read/write permissions access for databases by default without any mucking
| > around on the server and the one FP uses.
| >
| > You can probably use any folder you like, as long as the correct read/write
| > permissions are correctly set and adjust the db connection information
| > accordingly (in the global.asa file).
| >
| > I believe the point you are asking about, then is how to get frontpage to
| > connect to a database *above* the root folder (the public_html folder)?
| >
| > It is common practice where a database houses sensitive information in a
| > folder "above" the root folder of the web site i.e. the directory level
| > above public_html which can't be seen or browsed by the public through a
| > browser, but a script can access it as it needs to.
| >
| > This can't be accessed through Frontpage HTTP or FTP modes, but you can get
| > to it via a normal FTP program. That brings up another can of of worms,
| > concerning FTP vs the server extensions, which you've identifed as being a
| > problem.
| >
| > Anyway that's not really the issue which is that you can use whatever
| > folder name you like as long as the permissions are set correctly and the db
| > connection information is correctly pointing to the right folder.
| >
| > So your home page pathname would be something like
| > '/home/yourusername/public_html/' and the path for the database:
| > '/home/yourusername/databases' which is back one step from public_html and
| > down one step into 'databases' but above the 'root' so no one can browse it.
| >
| > I hope that's what you're getting at......but one last thing - I don't know
| > what you mean "can't connect to an HTTP/URL in Access"
| >
| >
| > "jimt"
| >
| > | > > We have a local (on the town office's C:\ drive) Access DB and a subset of
| > > its data on our web site. Currently I have a module in the Access DB that
| > > clears a copy to the web DB and then repopulates the data.
| > >
| > > I'm using FP-2000 on my laptop to develop the town's web site. FP suggest
| > > the DB is placed in a directory named FPDB at the same level as the web
| > > pages
| > > while my service provider "requires" the DB placed in a directory called
| > > DATABASES at the same as the PUBLIC directory housing the web pages. To
| > > KISS,
| > > I'm using the databases directory structure on both web and local server.
| > >
| > > Both the local and web server has FP extensions "on". The use of FP
| > > extensions on the web site "locks" all the directories under the root
| > > (i.e. > both public and databases). Currently the only way I refresh the
| > > Web DB is to
| > > log on to the web site and turn off the FP extensions (2-3 min to take
| > > effect). FTP the local subset DB to the databases directory. After the
| > > upload, log back onto the site and turn the FP extensions back on (4-5 min
| > > to
| > > take effect). Log out and open FP to "republish" the web. For some reason
| > > I
| > > have to do all not just changed pages, even if only the DB changed and no
| > > pages was changed.
| > >
| > > I want to somehow automate the process (i.e not having to go through the
| > > above steps) so someone in the town office can refresh the data in the web
| > > periodically.
| > > Additionally the town currently does not have a copy of FP so some of the
| > > steps could not be done or they would have to purchase a copy of FP.
| > >
| > > I haven't work this angle before but was hoping to automate using the
| > > local
| > > Access, e.g. code a module to connect to the web DB and refresh the data).
| > > My
| > > understanding now is you can't connect to a HTTP/URL in Access.
| > >
| > > Any suggestions...
| > >
| > > Thanks
| > > Jim T.
| > >
| >
| >
| >