CTP Hell

[Michael Rodriguez]

<RANT>

Who is the genius at MS that allowed the SQL June CTP to be incompatible
with the VS June CTP??? Apparently the SQL June CTP only works with VS Beta
2, and even that depends on install order. If you want the VS June CTP, do
you have to stick with the SQL April CTP? Under which install order
scenario does that work??

Good thing that nobody has any *actual* work to do and can afford to spend
all day installing and uninstalling assorted builds in various sequences
until they get a matching combination.

</RANT>

<g>

Mike Rodriguez

 

[Willy Denoyette [MVP]]

<RANT>

Who is the genius at MS that allowed the SQL June CTP to be incompatible
with the VS June CTP??? Apparently the SQL June CTP only works with VS
Beta 2, and even that depends on install order. If you want the VS June
CTP, do you have to stick with the SQL April CTP? Under which install
order scenario does that work??

Good thing that nobody has any *actual* work to do and can afford to spend
all day installing and uninstalling assorted builds in various sequences
until they get a matching combination.

</RANT>

<g>

Mike Rodriguez

It's clearly stated on the download page that they aren't compatible [1], if
you need both of them, run them on separate boxes.
If you install the VS June CTP's, you have to un-install the previous
versions anyway, and reinstall in the; order VS followed by SQL server, this
is the way it works when you are dealing with pre-beta software, and this is
also something you accepted when installing the bits, you did read the
readme files did you?.

[1] From the subscribers download page:
NOTE: Visual Studio 2005 June CTP is not compatible with the SQL 2005 June
CTP, but will work with the included SQL Server 2005 Express Edition. The
June CTP of Visual Studio 2005 Team Foundation Server requires the April CTP
of SQL Server 2005.


Willy.

 

[Michael Rodriguez]

It's clearly stated on the download page that they aren't compatible [1],
if you need both of them, run them on separate boxes.
If you install the VS June CTP's, you have to un-install the previous
versions anyway, and reinstall in the; order VS followed by SQL server,
this is the way it works when you are dealing with pre-beta software, and
this is also something you accepted when installing the bits, you did read
the readme files did you?.

Willy,

I know it's clearly stated. And yet, I still reserve the right to complain.
I do have that right, don't I?

It just seems to me that the June CTPs of products that are ultimately meant
to work together, should in fact, work together. MS clearly wants VS
developers to use SQL Server, and vise versa, so you would think they would
make more of an effort to make them compatible. After all, the builds came
out within 2 weeks of each other.

Mike

 

[Guest]

The trick is to know what the release number of the framework is being used.
(i.e. v2.0.50110 and v2.0.50235) both are framework version 2. "Safety tip -
do not cross the streams. That would ve very unsafe, as is all life on the
planet as we current know will cease to exist. "

Do not try to mix different versions of the 2.0 framework. User beware and
it is up to you to make the intelligent decision to match and sync the
versions your are about to use. That is why there are Beta public releases,
Microsoft sync'd these up for "you" so they will work. Beta2 for VS and SQL
2005 and the Beta1 public of Indigo are all using v2.0.50235 (or .502??? I
can;t remember) but this is your best bet to sanity. The CTP are for those
folks that need the latest bits and KNOW what the CTP are and how to use
them. The CTP users often have versions of the other software that you may
not have because they are in a partner or beta group. MS has provided pretty
good versions for you (the public developer overloaded, overworked, under
appreciated, about to outsourced, with minimal time after work to try this
junk , and a screaming wife who wants you to get off that damm thing and help
with the kids and clean up the mess in the kitchen) you. Unless you are
seasoned in how to find edible plants for survial in the woods, you might
just stick to the beatened path, the public betas. The CTP are use at your
own risk, I try not to touch the stuff myself, it can be like eating poision
oak. There is the cutting edge and there is the bleeding edge. And if you
spend too much time there you will become "edgy", we have all been there and
there is nothing you can do but uninstall, and reinstall the oldver version
that was working, and stick to the betas.
I'm sure you have the condolances of all of us that have been taken for that
ride. Any how what those 4 or 5 digits at the end for you framework. Look in
c:windows\Microsoft .Net\framework\ and you will find a folder for everyone
of those little buggers that you have installed. Signing out from the planet
Mongo. -
--
Richard Chauvet

It's clearly stated on the download page that they aren't compatible [1],
if you need both of them, run them on separate boxes.
If you install the VS June CTP's, you have to un-install the previous
versions anyway, and reinstall in the; order VS followed by SQL server,
this is the way it works when you are dealing with pre-beta software, and
this is also something you accepted when installing the bits, you did read
the readme files did you?.

Willy,

I know it's clearly stated. And yet, I still reserve the right to complain.
I do have that right, don't I?

It just seems to me that the June CTPs of products that are ultimately meant
to work together, should in fact, work together. MS clearly wants VS
developers to use SQL Server, and vise versa, so you would think they would
make more of an effort to make them compatible. After all, the builds came
out within 2 weeks of each other.

Mike

 

[Bob Grommes]

Michael,

Given that it's documented, and that it's not unreasonable to imagine that
integration testing of different product installs after some sort of
breaking change might have to happen later rather than hold up the updates
from being released, this doesn't seem particularly nefarious to me. But to
each their own. As you point out, you have the right to complain ;-)

--Bob

It's clearly stated on the download page that they aren't compatible [1],
if you need both of them, run them on separate boxes.
If you install the VS June CTP's, you have to un-install the previous
versions anyway, and reinstall in the; order VS followed by SQL server,
this is the way it works when you are dealing with pre-beta software, and
this is also something you accepted when installing the bits, you did
read the readme files did you?.

Willy,

I know it's clearly stated. And yet, I still reserve the right to
complain. I do have that right, don't I?

It just seems to me that the June CTPs of products that are ultimately
meant to work together, should in fact, work together. MS clearly wants
VS developers to use SQL Server, and vise versa, so you would think they
would make more of an effort to make them compatible. After all, the
builds came out within 2 weeks of each other.

Mike

 

[Jon Skeet [C# MVP]]

I know it's clearly stated. And yet, I still reserve the right to complain.
I do have that right, don't I?

It just seems to me that the June CTPs of products that are ultimately meant
to work together, should in fact, work together. MS clearly wants VS
developers to use SQL Server, and vise versa, so you would think they would
make more of an effort to make them compatible. After all, the builds came
out within 2 weeks of each other.

But for each team to be able to make sure it was compatible with the
other would have meant stabilizing much earlier. Imagine how they're
working - I suspect they take stable builds of each other's projects,
and work against those until the next stable build is out, and then
there's a period where they need to realign everything.

Having to make the two CTPs work with each other would either delay
them significantly, or quite possibly delay the final release
significantly.

As for your right to complain - it's absolutely your right, but I think
the only likely outcome of such complaints is that we get fewer CTPs
and betas. It's not really MS's fault that you apparently wasted a day
"installing and uninstalling assorted builds in various sequences" due
to not reading the documentation. Betas and CTPs of different products
are always likely to have pretty precise specifications about which
versions will work against which other versions, and being released
together *doesn't* mean they'll be able to work together - I would
expect that to very rarely be the case, in fact, for the reasons given
above.

 

[Willy Denoyette [MVP]]

It's clearly stated on the download page that they aren't compatible [1],
if you need both of them, run them on separate boxes.
If you install the VS June CTP's, you have to un-install the previous
versions anyway, and reinstall in the; order VS followed by SQL server,
this is the way it works when you are dealing with pre-beta software, and
this is also something you accepted when installing the bits, you did
read the readme files did you?.

Willy,

I know it's clearly stated. And yet, I still reserve the right to
complain. I do have that right, don't I?

It just seems to me that the June CTPs of products that are ultimately
meant to work together, should in fact, work together. MS clearly wants
VS developers to use SQL Server, and vise versa, so you would think they
would make more of an effort to make them compatible. After all, the
builds came out within 2 weeks of each other.

Mike

You have the right to complain, just like I reserve the right to say you
shouldn't complain, and you shouldn't start your rant with "who is the
genius", instead you should be wondering 'Is this release for me?'.

First off, it's clearly documented what you can/can't expect from a CTP
build:
- SQL June TCP/VS June CTP is not supported on the same box (CLR issue), if
you did waste your time trying to install both, you only have to blame
yourself
- both are unsupported and not of Beta quality, if you aren't willing to
deal with and accept the issues (something you clearly don't), don't
install.
- It's not for production code using Beta2 Go-live license, if this is what
you need, stick with Beta2.
- Unless you have plenty of hardware or you are using VPC's, just don't
install it.
If however, you have the hardware and ready to accept the issues and you
really need to use the SQL June CTP with VS, install them on a separate box
and point your VS June CTP Dataconnections to this remote instance, that's
the way I'm doing , sure there are issues, but it works pretty well,
considering both aren't even Beta quality.
Second you should keep in mind that while SQL 2005 integrates into VS (to a
certain extent), they are totally different products, built by different
teams, targeting different customers/needs.
IMO it was the correct decision to separate both product development cycles,
and don't let them depend on each other. SQL Server does not need VS, and VS
doesn't require SQL in order to build applications. Right, both products
have the CLR in common, but he! SQL server doesn't need the CLR to run (most
of the SQL community doesn't care at all about the CLR), while VS needs it
badly. As indicated by others, it wouldn't be acceptable to delay the
release of one of the product in favor of the other, just because someone
needs synchronized pre-beta builds.

Willy.

 

[Michael Rodriguez]

The CTP are use at your
own risk, I try not to touch the stuff myself, it can be like eating
poision
oak. There is the cutting edge and there is the bleeding edge. And if you
spend too much time there you will become "edgy",

Well said!

 

[Michael Rodriguez]

As for your right to complain - it's absolutely your right, but I think
the only likely outcome of such complaints is that we get fewer CTPs
and betas. It's not really MS's fault that you apparently wasted a day
"installing and uninstalling assorted builds in various sequences" due
to not reading the documentation.

Hi Jon,

Actually, I didn't waste any time installing and uninstalling the assorted
betas. I learned that lesson last year! I really don't even use SQL 2005,
I just love the Management Studio. I use it on my current SQL 2000
databases. The SMS is just so much better than the old EM (an actual search
and replace in stored procedures!).

Has anyone tried the VS June CTP with the SMS from April? I think I heard
someone say they might work together if SMS is installed first. It just
takes to long to install and uninstall that I'm can't spend the time to find
out.

Thanks,

Mike Rodriguez