Creating home network, setup questions

[Junior Junk]

Hello.

We have just bought a new computer and I would like to setup a home network
with our two windows XP home edition service pack 3 computers and the new
windows vista service pack 1 Home Premium. At least, I think I want a home
network.

I want to be able to access files on the harddrive of one of the xp machines
from the other two machines. Any additional sharing is fine, but my main
goal is being able to access files on that one machine from the two others.
(Also, to save files to the one machine from the two others.)

First question: Given that goal, is a home network only / best way to go?

I set up a home network a few years back between the xp computers but did
not reestablish after we moved to our current home.

I began to prepare by looking over this information:
http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/using/networking/setup/wired.mspx

Second question is: Is the router shown in the "Connect multiple computers
to the internet" section required when the modem provided by ISP is both
modem and router?

Is it possible that the modem for my ISP is in the main box where the cables
enter the home? The box I have in my office that was provided by my ISP is a
D-link wireless router DI-624.

See here:
http://support.dlink.com/products/view.asp?productid=DI-624_revC

Third question: One of the xp machines has norton, the other xp machine has
avast. The vista machine will likely have avast as well. I believe I am
confused about the discussion around antivirus software settings and firewall
settings. Does anything need be done to norton or avast to make this work?

I should mention that poking around here I found a link to this article:
http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/bb727037.aspx

Thanks.

 

[Malke]

Junior Junk wrote:

Comments inline (with snippage) and networking instructions after your post:

We have just bought a new computer and I would like to setup a home
network with our two windows XP home edition service pack 3 computers and
the new
windows vista service pack 1 Home Premium. At least, I think I want a
home network.

First question: Given that goal, is a home network only / best way to go?

Yes, you want to set up Local Area Network (LAN) file/printer sharing. This
is quite easy to do.

Second question is: Is the router shown in the "Connect multiple computers
to the internet" section required when the modem provided by ISP is both
modem and router?

In order to share one IP address (obtained from your ISP), you need a
router. If the cable/DSL modem is a combination modem/router, you don't
need a separate router. If you have cable, the modem will be a small box
connected to the outside world by a coax cable (thick, usually black with a
silver "screw ring" on it. If you have DSL, the modem will be a small box
connected by a cable to one of your phone jacks.

If there are multiple ports on the back of the modem aside from the one
connected by coax or going to the phone jack, you have a combination
modem/router and no more equipment is necessary. You can also Google that
box's make/model to find out exactly what it is.

Is it possible that the modem for my ISP is in the main box where the
cables
enter the home? The box I have in my office that was provided by my ISP
is a D-link wireless router DI-624.

The D-Link DI-624 is just a wireless router, not a modem/router.

Third question: One of the xp machines has norton, the other xp machine
has
avast. The vista machine will likely have avast as well. I believe I am
confused about the discussion around antivirus software settings and
firewall
settings. Does anything need be done to norton or avast to make this
work?

Yes, of course you need to configure your firewall. See below for details. I
would uninstall Norton and replace it with Avast. If you have the free
version of Avast, there is no built-in firewall component.

Here are general network troubleshooting steps. Not everything may be
applicable to your situation, so just take the bits that are. It may look
daunting, but if you follow the steps at the links and suggestions below
systematically and calmly, you will have no difficulty in setting up your
sharing.

Excellent, thorough, yet easy to understand article about File/Printer
Sharing in Vista. Includes details about sharing printers as well as files
and folders:

http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/bb727037.aspx

For XP, start by running the Network Setup Wizard on all machines (see
caveat in Item A below).

Problems sharing files between computers on a network are generally caused
by 1) a misconfigured firewall or overlooked firewall (including a stateful
firewall in a VPN); or 2) inadvertently running two firewalls such as the
built-in Windows Firewall and a third-party firewall; and/or 3) not having
identical user accounts and passwords on all Workgroup machines; 4) trying
to create shares where the operating system does not permit it.

A. Configure firewalls on all machines to allow the Local Area Network (LAN)
traffic as trusted. With Windows Firewall, this means allowing File/Printer
Sharing on the Exceptions tab. Normally running the Network Setup Wizard on
XP will take care of this for those machines.The only "gotcha" is that this
will turn on the XPSP2 Windows Firewall. If you aren't running a
third-party firewall or have an antivirus with "Internet Worm
Protection" (like Norton 2006/07) which acts as a firewall, then you're
fine. With third-party firewalls, I usually configure the LAN allowance
with an IP range. Ex. would be 192.168.1.0-192.168.1.254. Obviously you
would substitute your correct subnet. Do not run more than one firewall. DO
NOT TURN OFF FIREWALLS; CONFIGURE THEM CORRECTLY.

B. For ease of organization, put all computers in the same Workgroup. This
is done from the System applet in Control Panel, Computer Name tab.

C. Create matching user accounts and passwords on all machines. You do not
need to be logged into the same account on all machines and the passwords
assigned to each user account can be different; the accounts/passwords just
need to exist and match on all machines. DO NOT NEGLECT TO CREATE
PASSWORDS, EVEN IF ONLY SIMPLE ONES. If you wish a machine to boot directly
to the Desktop (into one particular user's account) for convenience, you
can do this. The instructions at this link work for both XP and Vista:

Configure Windows to Automatically Login (MVP Ramesh) -
http://windowsxp.mvps.org/Autologon.htm

D. If one or more of the computers is XP Pro or Media Center, turn off
Simple File Sharing (Folder Options>View tab).

E. Create shares as desired. XP Home does not permit sharing of users' home
directories or Program Files, but you can share folders inside those
directories. A better choice is to simply use the Shared Documents folder.
See the first link above for details about Vista sharing.

Malke

 

[Junior Junk]

:

For XP, start by running the Network Setup Wizard on all machines (see
caveat in Item A below).

Problems sharing files between computers on a network are generally caused
by 1) a misconfigured firewall or overlooked firewall (including a stateful
firewall in a VPN); or 2) inadvertently running two firewalls such as the
built-in Windows Firewall and a third-party firewall; and/or 3) not having
identical user accounts and passwords on all Workgroup machines; 4) trying
to create shares where the operating system does not permit it.

A. Configure firewalls on all machines to allow the Local Area Network (LAN)
traffic as trusted. With Windows Firewall, this means allowing File/Printer
Sharing on the Exceptions tab. Normally running the Network Setup Wizard on
XP will take care of this for those machines.The only "gotcha" is that this
will turn on the XPSP2 Windows Firewall. If you aren't running a
third-party firewall or have an antivirus with "Internet Worm
Protection" (like Norton 2006/07) which acts as a firewall, then you're
fine. With third-party firewalls, I usually configure the LAN allowance
with an IP range. Ex. would be 192.168.1.0-192.168.1.254. Obviously you
would substitute your correct subnet. Do not run more than one firewall. DO
NOT TURN OFF FIREWALLS; CONFIGURE THEM CORRECTLY.

Malke

Thanks for your reply.

A question based on the above quoted text:

As I have a router (which I understand it, provides a firewall) I am not
sure I understand what I have to do to Windows firewall? (In quoted text, I
assume the router's firewall is a 'third party firewall'.) Partly, I am
confused about configuring firewalls, and party about the direction to only
have one running conflicting with the direction to not turn off a firewall
(and instead configure it correctly).

So, the question is... What do I do at that step? =)

Thanks again.

 

[Junior Junk]

:




Thanks for your reply.

A question based on the above quoted text:

As I have a router (which I understand it, provides a firewall) I am not
sure I understand what I have to do to Windows firewall? (In quoted text, I
assume the router's firewall is a 'third party firewall'.) Partly, I am
confused about configuring firewalls, and party about the direction to only
have one running conflicting with the direction to not turn off a firewall
(and instead configure it correctly).

So, the question is... What do I do at that step? =)

Thanks again.

Sorry, just also wanted to note that XP is updated to SP3. Does that affect
the directions concerning the windows sp2 firewall?

Also,

"Malke" wrote:

D. If one or more of the computers is XP Pro or Media Center, turn off
Simple File Sharing (Folder Options>View tab).

<SNIP>

Does it matter from where I access (Folder Options > View tab)? So, must I
do it from c; drive? Can I do it from my pictures? Just want to get it
right.

Thanks.

 

[Malke]

A question based on the above quoted text:

As I have a router (which I understand it, provides a firewall) I am not
sure I understand what I have to do to Windows firewall? (In quoted text,
I
assume the router's firewall is a 'third party firewall'.) Partly, I am
confused about configuring firewalls, and party about the direction to
only have one running conflicting with the direction to not turn off a
firewall (and instead configure it correctly).

While it preferable to have a router since that does provide some amount of
security, consumer-level routers do not have a firewall. You need to run a
software firewall on each one of your Windows computers. The built-in
Windows Firewall is adequate for most people and if you run XP's Network
Setup Wizard and say "yes" to file/printer sharing, the Windows Firewall
will be configured correctly with no more work needed from you.

As I thought I described in my previous post, quite a few antivirus/security
programs such as Norton have a firewall component. You do not want to have
two firewalls running. If you insist on keeping Norton (not recommended),
configure its firewall and make sure you turn off the Windows Firewall
after running the Wizard. I don't support Norton so if you want to know how
to configure its firewall, read its Help or look on Norton's support site.

Malke

 

[Malke]

Sorry, just also wanted to note that XP is updated to SP3. Does that
affect the directions concerning the windows sp2 firewall?

No. It just means that I need to update my boilerplate. ;-)

<SNIP>

Does it matter from where I access (Folder Options > View tab)? So, must
I
do it from c; drive? Can I do it from my pictures? Just want to get it
right.

I don't understand this last question at all. Access what from where? If
you're asking about Folder Options, you can get to it from any Explorer
menu (Tools>Folder Options) or from Control Panel>Folder Options. Just
different paths to the same place.

Malke

 

[Junior Junk]

First, let me thank you for your patience so far. I apologize if I have made
you repeat something twice. I am trying to keep up.

Ok, so, as I do more reading and start to tinker with the computers...I
realize that the two xp computers have been networked. Computer A and
computer B are both xp computers. (For the sake of completeness, label the
new vista computer as computer C.) They are networked. While sitting at
computer A I can access folders on computer B no problem. (Specifically, I
opened a couple of photo images that I took at a recent family function...it
worked!)

However, when sitting at computer B, to access a folder on computer A I get
a popup asking for a password. I have no idea what the password is.

All three computers are connected to the D-Link router I mentioned in the
earlier post.

So, first question:
I assume I can reset the password? Can I get rid of it, as it appears was
done in the reverse direction? Safe to do so?

Second question:
Assuming that overcoming the password problem will allow me two way access,
does this mean the firewalls are configured correctly? (I have not tried to
print, but the printer will probably be linked directly to the new vista
computer (C). Currently, I have unplugged the printer.)

Third question:
Knowing that the two xp computers are currently networked, minus the
password hiccup, does that change anything about the instructions you have
provided? Do I simply focus on the new vista machine and not run the network
wizard on the two xp machines? In other words, should I focus on the
instructions in this link you provided:
http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/bb727037.aspx

Thanks.

 

[Junior Junk]

However, when sitting at computer B, to access a folder on computer A I get
a popup asking for a password. I have no idea what the password is.

All three computers are connected to the D-Link router I mentioned in the
earlier post.

So, first question:
I assume I can reset the password? Can I get rid of it, as it appears was
done in the reverse direction? Safe to do so?

Ok, so I should be more specific.

If I build on the numbering in my post of a few moments ago:

Fourth question:
Is my password question (in the above quote) related to the password you
STRONGLY suggest in this paragraph:

<SNIP>
C. Create matching user accounts and passwords on all machines. You do not
need to be logged into the same account on all machines and the passwords
assigned to each user account can be different; the accounts/passwords just
need to exist and match on all machines. DO NOT NEGLECT TO CREATE
PASSWORDS, EVEN IF ONLY SIMPLE ONES. If you wish a machine to boot directly
to the Desktop (into one particular user's account) for convenience, you
can do this. The instructions at this link work for both XP and Vista:
<SNIP>

Fifth question:
I tried going to:
control panel > user accounts

to change the password, but it does not seem to give me the option. Is it
possible that the account has no password and the popup that I get is caused
by something else? (Firewall maybe?)

Thanks again.

(I wish I could edit my posts, it would make this easier to follow, I think.)

 

[Malke]

Junior Junk wrote:

Comments inline:
You are being asked for a password because you haven't created identical
user accounts/passwords on all the machines. Refer to the paragraph I wrote
you which you quote below.

Is my password question (in the above quote) related to the password you
STRONGLY suggest in this paragraph:

<SNIP>
C. Create matching user accounts and passwords on all machines. You do not
need to be logged into the same account on all machines and the passwords
assigned to each user account can be different; the accounts/passwords
just need to exist and match on all machines. DO NOT NEGLECT TO CREATE
PASSWORDS, EVEN IF ONLY SIMPLE ONES. If you wish a machine to boot
directly to the Desktop (into one particular user's account) for
convenience, you can do this. The instructions at this link work for both
XP and Vista: <SNIP>

In a Workgroup (peer-to-peer without a server), authentication is done at
the local level. In effect, think of this as if each computer has a bouncer
with a guest list. Computer A has a user account Tom, with password 1234.
Computer B has a user account Bill, with password 4567. Tom (on Computer A)
requests a access to a shared resource on Computer B. Since Tom and 1234 is
unknown on Computer B, Computer B pops up a request for authentication. It
is saying, "I don't know any Tom with password 1234. It's not on my list.
Provide a username and password I do have on my list and I'll let you have
access".

So if you create the Tom 1234 user account on Computer B, when Tom on
Computer A asks for access to a shared resource on Computer B he is known
and access is granted.

Fifth question:
I tried going to:
control panel > user accounts

to change the password, but it does not seem to give me the option. Is it
possible that the account has no password and the popup that I get is
caused
by something else? (Firewall maybe?)

I have no idea what you're doing here. You are able to change passwords on
all user accounts in Windows XP by going to Control Panel>User Accounts and
clicking on the User Account you want to change. You will then be able to
change its password. However, I don't think you really want to change
passwords unless you have (again using the same example) a Tom account on
Computer A password 1234 and a Tom account on Computer B password 4567. In
that case, you would change one of the accounts' passwords to match the
other.

Malke

 

[Junior Junk]

Junior Junk wrote:

Comments inline:

You are being asked for a password because you haven't created identical
user accounts/passwords on all the machines. Refer to the paragraph I wrote
you which you quote below.


In a Workgroup (peer-to-peer without a server), authentication is done at
the local level. In effect, think of this as if each computer has a bouncer
with a guest list. Computer A has a user account Tom, with password 1234.
Computer B has a user account Bill, with password 4567. Tom (on Computer A)
requests a access to a shared resource on Computer B. Since Tom and 1234 is
unknown on Computer B, Computer B pops up a request for authentication. It
is saying, "I don't know any Tom with password 1234. It's not on my list.
Provide a username and password I do have on my list and I'll let you have
access".

So if you create the Tom 1234 user account on Computer B, when Tom on
Computer A asks for access to a shared resource on Computer B he is known
and access is granted.


I have no idea what you're doing here. You are able to change passwords on
all user accounts in Windows XP by going to Control Panel>User Accounts and
clicking on the User Account you want to change. You will then be able to
change its password. However, I don't think you really want to change
passwords unless you have (again using the same example) a Tom account on
Computer A password 1234 and a Tom account on Computer B password 4567. In
that case, you would change one of the accounts' passwords to match the
other.

Malke

I think, because I could not edit my post, you may have missed my post
immediately before the one you replied to. I think that explains the fifth
question that confused you. (Because that post has questions 1, 2, and 3.
Three questions I am sure you can answer!)

The post you may have missed is stamped:
9/14/2008 7:53 AM PST

Thanks.

 

[Junior Junk]

To summarize remaining questions in this one post:

These three questions remain unanswered and hopefully shed light on the
confusion with the fifth question which is further below.

First, let me thank you for your patience so far. I apologize if I have made
you repeat something twice. I am trying to keep up.

Ok, so, as I do more reading and start to tinker with the computers...I
realize that the two xp computers have been networked. Computer A and
computer B are both xp computers. (For the sake of completeness, label the
new vista computer as computer C.) They are networked. While sitting at
computer A I can access folders on computer B no problem. (Specifically, I
opened a couple of photo images that I took at a recent family function...it
worked!)

However, when sitting at computer B, to access a folder on computer A I get
a popup asking for a password. I have no idea what the password is.

All three computers are connected to the D-Link router I mentioned in the
earlier post.

So, first question:
I assume I can reset the password? Can I get rid of it, as it appears was
done in the reverse direction? Safe to do so?

Second question:
Assuming that overcoming the password problem will allow me two way access,
does this mean the firewalls are configured correctly? (I have not tried to
print, but the printer will probably be linked directly to the new vista
computer (C). Currently, I have unplugged the printer.)

Third question:
Knowing that the two xp computers are currently networked, minus the
password hiccup, does that change anything about the instructions you have
provided? Do I simply focus on the new vista machine and not run the network
wizard on the two xp machines? In other words, should I focus on the
instructions in this link you provided:
http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/bb727037.aspx

Thanks.

Here is the post which answers my the fourth question and expresses
confusion over the fifth question. (As I mention in my previous post, I
believe the confusion was partly caused by me posting two posts in quick
succession and your reviewing the later post without noticing the prior.)

Junior Junk wrote:

Comments inline:

You are being asked for a password because you haven't created identical
user accounts/passwords on all the machines. Refer to the paragraph I wrote
you which you quote below.


In a Workgroup (peer-to-peer without a server), authentication is done at
the local level. In effect, think of this as if each computer has a bouncer
with a guest list. Computer A has a user account Tom, with password 1234.
Computer B has a user account Bill, with password 4567. Tom (on Computer A)
requests a access to a shared resource on Computer B. Since Tom and 1234 is
unknown on Computer B, Computer B pops up a request for authentication. It
is saying, "I don't know any Tom with password 1234. It's not on my list.
Provide a username and password I do have on my list and I'll let you have
access".

So if you create the Tom 1234 user account on Computer B, when Tom on
Computer A asks for access to a shared resource on Computer B he is known
and access is granted.


I have no idea what you're doing here. You are able to change passwords on
all user accounts in Windows XP by going to Control Panel>User Accounts and
clicking on the User Account you want to change. You will then be able to
change its password. However, I don't think you really want to change
passwords unless you have (again using the same example) a Tom account on
Computer A password 1234 and a Tom account on Computer B password 4567. In
that case, you would change one of the accounts' passwords to match the
other.

Malke

At the worst, after a reply to this post, I should be on the same page as you.

Thanks.

 

[Malke]

To summarize remaining questions in this one post:

These three questions remain unanswered and hopefully shed light on the
confusion with the fifth question which is further below.

[sigh]

You've really made this all much more difficult and complicated than it
really is. In short, if you:

a. Create matching user accounts/passwords on all Workgroup machines;
b. Correctly configure firewalls to allow Local Area Network traffic;
c. Share out resources as desired;

you will be able to do file/printer sharing on a Local Area Network. I'm
sorry to tell you this, but setting up 3 computers to share files (XP,
Vista, Mac OS X, Linux, whatever) takes less than 10 minutes. I'll try and
answer your questions below, but really don't know if that's going to help
you. If you still can't figure it out, consider having a knowledgeable
friend or a professional come on-site and straighten things out. I don't
recommend using a BigComputerStore/GeekSquad type of place.

Reset what password? You can change user accounts' passwords, certainly.
Make sure they all match; i.e., Tom 1234 on all computers, Bill 4567 on all
computers, etc. Matching passwords doesn't mean that all accounts must have
the same password, although they can if security isn't an issue. It means
that the Tom account must have the same password on all machines.

Do not get rid of user accounts' passwords. Create passwords, even if very
simple ones and then if you want each computer to log in automatically, set
it up with instructions previously given you.

The firewalls have nothing to do with the user account passwords. Firewalls
are a different item altogether and need to be configured to allow traffic
on the LAN. Printers can be shared out from the computer to which they are
connected (if a locally connected printer as opposed to a networked one)
but you will need to install the printers on each machine that is going to
use them.

No.

Malke

 

[Junior Junk]

[sigh]

You've really made this all much more difficult and complicated than it
really is.

I already apologized for this. If folks cannot learn from here, then I
misunderstood the purpose of the forum. Though perhaps you think that tone
was motivational?

Should I bother to note that mine is not the only post on the networking
board related to problems networking xp and vista computers? And, to note
how many of them are with users that seem much more conversant in techspeak
than I am?

[shrug]

I offer my apologies once again.

Reset what password? You can change user accounts' passwords, certainly.
Make sure they all match; i.e., Tom 1234 on all computers, Bill 4567 on all
computers, etc. Matching passwords doesn't mean that all accounts must have
the same password, although they can if security isn't an issue. It means
that the Tom account must have the same password on all machines.

Do not get rid of user accounts' passwords. Create passwords, even if very
simple ones and then if you want each computer to log in automatically, set
it up with instructions previously given you.

The account that was already on both machines was 'off' and XP would not
allow me to reset the password. I now see it can be reset if the account is
first turned on. (This might be a good thing to note when someone asks about
difficulty resetting a password even though they mention going to the user
accounts window.)

I wanted to get rid of having to enter a password to access the shared
folders. I assume that if I network and configure the accounts correctly,
when I click on a computer B folder from computer A, I will not be asked for
a password. Correct?

The firewalls have nothing to do with the user account passwords. Firewalls
are a different item altogether and need to be configured to allow traffic
on the LAN. Printers can be shared out from the computer to which they are
connected (if a locally connected printer as opposed to a networked one)
but you will need to install the printers on each machine that is going to
use them.

Amazingly, I understood exactly what you say when I submitted my questions.
My question if phrased differently was, Is the fact that I get a password
popup menu in one direction and access to a folder in the other direction
mean that the firewalls on those two conputers are configured correctly? Am
I correct in assuming the answer to that question is yes?

No.

Excellent.

 

[Malke]

[sigh]

You've really made this all much more difficult and complicated than it
really is.

I already apologized for this. If folks cannot learn from here, then I
misunderstood the purpose of the forum. Though perhaps you think that
tone was motivational?

Should I bother to note that mine is not the only post on the networking
board related to problems networking xp and vista computers? And, to note
how many of them are with users that seem much more conversant in
techspeak than I am?

I'm sorry you took umbrage to what I wrote. It was not meant in the "tone"
you thought you "heard". It was a simple statement of fact: networking is
not difficult and if you follow the steps I (and others) have posted, you
will have a working file/printer sharing network in minutes. There is no
"techspeak" involved. All I was suggesting is that if you are still having
difficulties after all of this, perhaps having someone help you is a better
solution. It was meant as strictly practical advice, that's all.

I really don't have anything else to add to this thread. Again, I apologize
if I inadvertently hurt your feelings but that doesn't change any of the
network troubleshooting steps I gave you.

Good luck and EOT for me,

Malke

 

[Junior Junk]

I really don't have anything else to add to this thread. Again, I apologize
if I inadvertently hurt your feelings but that doesn't change any of the
network troubleshooting steps I gave you.

Good luck and EOT for me,

Malke

hmm. I did have some questions in that post which did not receive a reply...

Is there another person that looks after this microsoft networking board
that might answer my remaining questions, or are you it? (I assume that EOT
means something along the lines of 'end of thread'.)