Creating dual boot on Raid 0

[skywreck]

One of my PCs is running on a Raid 0 configuration on XP32. I have bought
Windows 7 and would like to install it on a separate partition and have a
dual boot system. However when I try to partition the disk nothing happens.
Looking for some advice and instructions to achieve this, assuming this is
posible.

 

[Inter Hagel]

One of my PCs is running on a Raid 0 configuration on XP32. I have bought

Windows 7 and would like to install it on a separate partition and have a
dual boot system. However when I try to partition the disk nothing
happens.
Looking for some advice and instructions to achieve this, assuming this is
posible.

Is there any problem with using XP-32bit on 1 partition, XP-64bit or
Win7-64bit on the second partition and data on the third partition? Does it
matter how the data is formatted?

 

[skywreck]

Thanks for your prompt reply. The raid setup came with PC when I purchased it
and I have no experience whatsoever on this matter.
I tried using Acronis disk director and Partition magic to create a
partition to install Windows 7 but although neither of these 2 programs
showed any errors during the process, after reboot I couldn't find anything
new partitions. My 2 HDs on the raid are 500Gb each. Grateful for any
explanation or links that could clarify this issue for me.

 

[peter]

Go to Administrative Tools/Computer Management/disc management
to see a graphic of your disk(s)
if the partitioning worked it would show there and you just might need to
format the free space to make it usable.

peter

 

[Ken Blake, MVP]

Is there any problem with using XP-32bit on 1 partition, XP-64bit or
Win7-64bit on the second partition and data on the third partition? Does it
matter how the data is formatted?

Are you asking whether both a 64-bit version of Windows and a 32-bit
version can access the same data partition?

Yes they can, and they can do so regardless of what file system (NTFS,
FAT32) the data partition uses.

 

[skywreck]

Ken

I'm running Win XP32 on a Raid0 configuration with 2 HDs each 500Gb.
I would like to be able to install Win7 32 into a separate partition and
have a dual boot system. The problem I am having is that I'm not sure what
would be the correct steps to successfully partition the raid.
Have tried Acronis Disk Director and Partition magic and during the process
it shows the new partition but after rebooting the raid size is the same and
there is no trace of said new partition. I was told to shrink the drive and
then reboot
with the Win7 disk in the drive and that this unpartitioned space (the
shrinked part)
would then be visible and I could proceed to format it and then install win7.
Is this the correct way of doing this? I am worried about this as I cannot
afford
to lose any data on the current partition.


Thanks and regards


Joaquin

 

[Ken Blake, MVP]

Ken

I'm running Win XP32 on a Raid0 configuration with 2 HDs each 500Gb.

Your choice, of course, but I'm very much against doing that. In my
experience, any improvement in performance is tiny at best. And it
greatly increases your risk. If one drive crashes, you lose everything
on both. Read here:

Why RAID is (usually) a Terrible Idea
http://www.pugetsystems.com/articles?&id=29

I would like to be able to install Win7 32 into a separate partition and
have a dual boot system.

OK, I'm not a big fan of doing that for most people, but I understand
the appeal.

The problem I am having is that I'm not sure what
would be the correct steps to successfully partition the raid.
Have tried Acronis Disk Director and Partition magic and during the process
it shows the new partition but after rebooting the raid size is the same and
there is no trace of said new partition. I was told to shrink the drive and
then reboot
with the Win7 disk in the drive and that this unpartitioned space (the
shrinked part)
would then be visible and I could proceed to format it and then install win7.
Is this the correct way of doing this? I am worried about this as I cannot
afford
to lose any data on the current partition.

Several points here:

1. You say "I cannot afford to lose any data on the current
partition." That means you have no backup of that data, and if that's
the case, you are *always* at risk of losing everything on the current
partition to things like hard drive crashes, nearby lightning strikes,
user errors, virus attacks, theft of the computer, etc.

In my view, if you have no external backup of what's important to you,
you are playing with fire.

2. Regarding partitioning, unfortunately, no version of Windows before
Vista provides any way of changing the existing partition structure of
the drive nondestructively. The only way to do what you want is with
third-party software. Partition Magic is the best-known such program,
but there are freeware/shareware alternatives. One such program is
BootIt Next Generation. It's shareware, but comes with a free 30-day
trial, so you should be able to do what you want within that 30 days.
I haven't used it myself (because I've never needed to use *any* such
program), but it comes highly recommended by several other MVPs here.

Whatever software you use, make sure you have a good backup before
beginning. Although there's no reason to expect a problem, things
*can* go wrong when you use such software.

3. How your RAID affects your ability to repartition with such
software I don't know.

 

[skywreck]

I am very much obliged for your detail answersand suggestions.
Warnings will surely be heeded.

 

[Ken Blake, MVP]

I am very much obliged for your detail answersand suggestions.
Warnings will surely be heeded.

You're welcome. Glad to help.

 

[Inter Hagel]

Is there any problem with using XP-32bit on 1 partition, XP-64bit or

Are you asking whether both a 64-bit version of Windows and a 32-bit
version can access the same data partition. Yes they can, and they can do
so regardless of what file system (NTFS, FAT32) the data partition uses.

When I format using a 64bit operating system (XP, Vista or Win7), do I have
the same options as I have now (Fat,Fat32, NTFS) or are there also 64bit
versions of those as well? Or do these things have nothing to do with each
other?

 

[Inter Hagel]

I'm running Win XP32 on a Raid0 configuration with 2 HDs each 500Gb.

Why not use a small, higher performance (10,000 rpm) drive (or drives) for
your OS instead of partitioning? That seems to be the most cost effective
way these days. Pick a 74gb or 80gb Velociraptor (not a Raptor), maybe 2
for Raid 0, get a good bootable backup system in place, and you're off.
Keep your data (and as many programs as you can) off C drive (partition for
C and D) so when Windows gives up the ghost (or one of your drives fails
which is highly unlikely if its a newer one) you're up and running right
away. If its Windows fault you can reinstall and not have to reinstall your
programs that were on D (the ones that don't scatter remnants all over your
computer like in Documents and Settings, etc). As for a backup system, some
people use 2 drives. One is updated throughout the day and the other is
stored offsite and updated less frequently. That's good for corrupted data
as your backup can be corrupted if backed up too recently. Anyway, once the
OS is screaming well on your Raid 0 setup, use any huge, 7200 rpm for your
data (and backup). Use Esata, not USB or firewire of course, unless you
don't value your time.

 

[Ken Blake, MVP]

Keep your data (and as many programs as you can) off C drive (partition for
C and D) so when Windows gives up the ghost (or one of your drives fails
which is highly unlikely if its a newer one) you're up and running right
away. If its Windows fault you can reinstall and not have to reinstall your
programs that were on D (the ones that don't scatter remnants all over your
computer like in Documents and Settings, etc).

Sorry, that's not correct. Except for a very occasional very small
program, all programs have entries and references within the registry
and elsewhere in \windows. It can't be run under Windows unless it was
installed in that copy of Windows. You will have to reinstall your
programs from the original media after you reinstall Windows.

It's usually best to have installed programs in the same partition as
Windows.

Regarding keeping data on D: instead of C:, I'm not strongly against
doing that, but I do want to point out that many people do it for the
wrong reason entirely. They do it so they don't lose their data if
they have to reinstall Windows. The problem with that kind of thinking
is that it tends to make people not realize that they *need* to have
backups of all data important to them, and that having it in a
separate partition provides next to no security for it.

 

[Inter Hagel]

Keep your data (and as many programs as you can) off C drive (partition

Sorry, that's not correct. Except for a very occasional very small
program, all programs have entries and references within the registry
and elsewhere in \windows. It can't be run under Windows unless it was
installed in that copy of Windows. You will have to reinstall your
programs from the original media after you reinstall Windows.

I've found almost all my smaller programs seem to install perfectly fine
outside of C drive. But I wonder how I could check if there are files
scattered on C after the install? Would a Search bring them all up I wonder?
I have experimented after a new install and copied and pasted a program from
another hard drive and most of the time it works perfectly. I think that
proves that there are no other files anywhere else. I think all Microsoft
programs have to be installed in Program Files on C though. But almost all
other programs can be installed in grouped folders in C:\Program Files so
there is a semblance of organization. I've found this a great help,
especially with programs you rarely use. Also its nice to realize that if
one program doesn't do the job, you can go back to its folder in Program
Files and pick another program. Why Microsoft and Apple don't organize
programs in groups is beyond logic. For instance C:\Program Files\Players
might contain Win Media Player, VLC, Real Audio, Quicktime, SM Player, etc.
When you install in your own specified folder make sure your installing in
its own folder (C:\Program Files\Players\VLC instead of C:\Program
Files\Players) otherwise you'll have a mass of files and you won't know
which are associated with what.

It's usually best to have installed programs in the same partition as
Windows.

So when Windows goes down and needs to be installed you have to do a lot
more work. Right.
My way - just copy and paste and you're up and running in seconds.

Regarding keeping data on D: instead of C:, I'm not strongly against
doing that, but I do want to point out that many people do it for the
wrong reason entirely. They do it so they don't lose their data if
they have to reinstall Windows. The problem with that kind of thinking
is that it tends to make people not realize that they *need* to have
backups of all data important to them, and that having it in a
separate partition provides next to no security for it.

We all know we have to have good backups. To think otherwise is ludicrous.
Good bootable backups if you value your productivity.

 

[Ken Blake, MVP]

I've found almost all my smaller programs seem to install perfectly fine
outside of C drive.

Yes, small or large, almost all programs can install on other drives
than C:. But that's not the issue. The issue is primarily registry
entries (with occasional references to the program elsewhere within
\Windows).

But I wonder how I could check if there are files
scattered on C after the install?

They are not "scattered on C:," they are within Windows. And again,
most of this is entries on the registry.

Would a Search bring them all up I wonder?
I have experimented after a new install and copied and pasted a program from
another hard drive and most of the time it works perfectly.

Then you have been extremely lucky. As I said, with most programs,
except for an occasional small simple one, you can not do this.

So when Windows goes down and needs to be installed you have to do a lot
more work. Right.

Yes, right!

My way - just copy and paste and you're up and running in seconds.

Yes, your way would be a better way, if it worked. But it works with a
small minority of programs, and should never be relied on.

We all know we have to have good backups. To think otherwise is ludicrous.
Good bootable backups if you value your productivity.

Yes, to think otherwise is ludicrous. Nevertheless, *many* computer
users don't realize it, and for most such people, telling them to have
their data on a partition different from the one Windows gives them
the very poor idea that that's an adequate substitute for backup.

You may believe what I say or not; it's your choice. But I can tell
you that I've seen *many* examples of people to whom this suggestion
gave the wrong idea.

 

[Paul Randall]

I've found almost all my smaller programs seem to install perfectly fine
outside of C drive. But I wonder how I could check if there are files
scattered on C after the install? Would a Search bring them all up I
wonder? I have experimented after a new install and copied and pasted a
program from another hard drive and most of the time it works perfectly.
I think that proves that there are no other files anywhere else. I think
all Microsoft programs have to be installed in Program Files on C though.
But almost all other programs can be installed in grouped folders in
C:\Program Files so there is a semblance of organization. I've found this
a great help, especially with programs you rarely use. Also its nice to
realize that if one program doesn't do the job, you can go back to its
folder in Program Files and pick another program. Why Microsoft and Apple
don't organize programs in groups is beyond logic. For instance
C:\Program Files\Players might contain Win Media Player, VLC, Real Audio,
Quicktime, SM Player, etc. When you install in your own specified folder
make sure your installing in its own folder (C:\Program Files\Players\VLC
instead of C:\Program Files\Players) otherwise you'll have a mass of files
and you won't know which are associated with what.


So when Windows goes down and needs to be installed you have to do a lot
more work. Right.
My way - just copy and paste and you're up and running in seconds.
Snip

Some applications are called 'portable apps'. If they are truely portable
apps, then they can just be copied and pasted to any drive, even a USB drive
or a camera's flash card in a computer's flash card slot, and will run from
there. Some applications that are not called portable apps also behave this
way because they also don't rely on info stored in the registry. They rely
on all the necessary files' being located in a specific location relative to
the executable's location. Perhaps this is true with all of your
applications. It is not true for most boxed software applications. For
these, if you reinstall Windows, the registry is lost and you must reinstall
the boxed software applications for them to work properly.

-Paul Randall

 

[Inter Hagel]

Keep your data (and as many programs as you can) off C drive (partition

Some applications are called 'portable apps'. If they are truely portable
apps, then they can just be copied and pasted to any drive, even a USB
drive or a camera's flash card in a computer's flash card slot, and will
run from there. Some applications that are not called portable apps also
behave this way because they also don't rely on info stored in the
registry. They rely on all the necessary files' being located in a
specific location relative to the executable's location. Perhaps this is
true with all of your applications. It is not true for most boxed
software applications. For these, if you reinstall Windows, the registry
is lost and you must reinstall the boxed software applications for them to
work properly. -Paul Randall

Thanks Paul for the good explanation. What would also help would be to know
if the app is "portable" before I install it. Does anyone know if this is
possible to determine somehow? Or how to test a packed install program
before I install it? Can't quite wrap my little mind around this. As I
remember, most of the larger programs are not portable. I wonder if some
seem like they are portable but are creating new preferences when they are
copied from another location instead of being installed correctly? (This is
getting complicated!)