CONVERT FAT 32 to NTFS

[Donald McDaniel]

Actually, no--it's the other way around. The smaller the cluster size, the
less space is wasted to slack. Unless a file's size is exactly a multiple of
the cluster size, every file will waste a portion of its last cluster. If
you assume that how much of that last cluster is wasted is randomly
distributed (not strictly true, but close enough for our purposes here) on
the average every file wastes half of one cluster. So total waste due to
slack is roughly the number of files times cluster size. Since 4K is 8 times
512 bytes, waste is 8 times as high with 4K clusters.

But in these days of very cheap hard drives, the value of that waste in
dollars (substitute your own local currency, if not dollars) is so small as
to be insignificant. I don't think any decisions about cluster size,
partition size, or anything else should even take that kind of waste into
consideration.

Thanks, Ken, I wasn't thinking too clearly when I wrote my last post.

In these days of 1gig or larger files, I am told that 4k clusters are
"better". Whether this means "better physical disk usage-wise" or
"better file storage/access-wise", or "better for sales of hard
drives" I'm not quite sure. But evidently the programmers at
Microsoft thought that 4k clusters are better (for some reason,
whatever it is) than 512 byte clusters, and made 4k clusters the
default for NTFS.

I really don't want to believe they intentionally created a file
storage system which WASTES most of our physical disk space, as you
say 4k clusters do.

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Donald L McDaniel
Please Reply to the Original Thread.
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[Ken Blake, MVP]

Sorry, typo. That should have been the number of files times *half* the
cluster size.

Thanks, Ken, I wasn't thinking too clearly when I wrote my last post.

You're welcome, Donald. Glad to help.

In these days of 1gig or larger files, I am told that 4k clusters are
"better". Whether this means "better physical disk usage-wise" or
"better file storage/access-wise", or "better for sales of hard
drives" I'm not quite sure.

No, none of the above. In this case, "better" simply means faster.

But evidently the programmers at
Microsoft thought that 4k clusters are better (for some reason,
whatever it is) than 512 byte clusters, and made 4k clusters the
default for NTFS.

I really don't want to believe they intentionally created a file
storage system which WASTES most of our physical disk space, as you
say 4k clusters do.

No, sorry, I didn't mean to say anything like that at all. Two points:

1. a 4K cluster size is actually small and it wastes very little compared to
typical waste on FAT32 drives. The following numbers are very rough, but
will give you an idea of the amount of waste. Let's say you have 100,000
files in 40GB of disk space with 4K clusters. That's a average waste of
about 2K per file. and 2K time 100,000 is a total waste of 200MB, or about
half of 1% of the drive. Certainly not "most of our physical disk space."

2. My other point is one I made in my previous message, and I'll repeat it:
"But in these days of very cheap hard drives, the value of that waste in
dollars (substitute your own local currency, if not dollars) is so small as
to be insignificant. I don't think any decisions about cluster size,
partition size, or anything else should even take that kind of waste into
consideration." If that hypothetical 40GB drive cost $40US, the cost of
wasting that 200MB is 20 cents.

 

[Jim Gainsley]

Thanks, Donald
Jim

CVTAREA is complex, can there much of a downside to not using it?

Jim

While in XP, then command prompt to execute CONVERT, I noticed that CONVERT
process requires that the disk be unmounted (did this for other drives).
What will this do to the 'C' drive from where CONVERT is executed and

XP
is

located?

Or am I complicating the problem???

Wayne

A UPS is in place.

You're complicating the non-problem. You will be asked to reboot,
then the conversion will be accomplished.

Of course, if you don't feel that's safe, just boot using the XP
install disk, and use the FIRST "Recovery" option, go the the Recovery
Console, and enter your Administrator account Password (NOT your user
account password, administratior privileges not-withstanding -- it
won't work. It MUST be the ORIGINAL Administrator account Password
you created when installing XP), and enter the convert command using
the flags you pointed out earlier. DON'T include the "\" part of
"C:", since you will be converting the DRIVE, not the root folder
(can't anyway).

Since the HD won't be mounted, you won't have to reboot.

ConvertConverts FAT and FAT32 volumes to NTFS.

Syntax
convert [volume] /fs:ntfs [/v] [/cvtarea:FileName] [/nosecurity] [/x]

Parameters
volume
Specifies the drive letter (followed by a colon), mount point, or
volume name to convert to NTFS.
/fs:ntfs
Required. Converts the volume to NTFS.
/v
Specifies verbose mode, that is, all messages will be displayed during
conversion.
/cvtarea:FileName
For advanced users only. Specifies that the Master File Table (MFT)
and other NTFS metadata files are written to an existing, contiguous
placeholder file. This file must be in the root directory of the file
system to be converted. Use of the /CVTAREA parameter can result in a
less fragmented file system after conversion. For best results, the
size of this file should be 1 KB multiplied by the number of files and
directories in the file system, however, the convert utility accepts
files of any size.
For more information about using the /cvtarea parameter, see "File
Systems" at the Microsoft Windows XP Resource Kits Web
site.(http://www.microsoft.com/)

Important

You must create the placeholder file using the fsutil file createnew
command prior to running convert. Convert does not create this file
for you. Convert overwrites this file with NTFS metadata. After
conversion, any unused space in this file is freed. For more
information about the fsutil file command, see Related Topics.
/nosecurity
Specifies that the converted files and directory security settings are
accessible by everyone.
/x
Dismounts the volume, if necessary, before it is converted. Any open
handles to the volume will no longer be valid.
Remarks
You must specify that the drive should be converted when the computer
is restarted. Otherwise, you cannot convert the current drive.
If convert cannot lock the drive (for example, the system volume or
the current drive), it offers to convert the drive the next time the
computer restarts.
The location of the MFT is different on volumes that have been
converted from previous version of NTFS, so volume performance might
not be as good on volumes converted from Windows NT.
Volumes converted from FAT to NTFS lack some performance benefits
compared to volumes initially formatted with NTFS. On converted
volumes, the MFT might become fragmented. In addition, on converted
boot volumes, NTFS permissions are not applied after the volume is
converted.
Examples
To convert the volume on drive E to NTFS and display all messages,
type:

convert e: /fs:ntfs /v

Jim, I didn't write anything but what I wrote. All else is cut and
pasted from Help And Support's article for the convert command.

To be honest, the /cvrtarea flag seems to be rather complex to me
also. I personally like to avoid complexity when able, so I just
format my partitions as NTFS in the first place, and never bother with
the convert command. But I back up my data, and have no problems
installing XP clean each time as a result. I've never had good luck
with doing upgrade installs, especially upgrading from an older OS to
a newer one.

Of course, someone who fails to back up his data, then wants to do
low-level disk changes is counting on the luck of the draw. I prefer
not to gamble when it's not necessary.

Sometimes, you just have to bite the bullet, and wipe your drives if
you want a good install of XP.


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Donald L McDaniel
Please Reply to the Original Thread.
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