Conversion to RAID 5

[ritpg]

I'm not exactly a newbie but I haven't written any books on this
subject either.

The more I research converting from a one-drive set-up with a hardware
RAID capability to RAID 5, the more it seems ridiculously hard to do
so. This is what I understand it involves. First, I have to image my
existing 500 gig SATA HD. Then I need to wipe that HD and install 2
more HDs identical to the one I have. I then configure the 3 HDs to
RAID 5 and then restore the image I created at the beginning.

Using Acronis Home, I tried to image the existing HD by connecting a
250 gig external (USB) HD (to store the image) and was told by Acronis
that the destination HD had to be identical to the source HD. I don't
understand why since only 140 gig of the source HD has been used. If
I can't work around this problem, that suggests that I would need a
4th (throw-away HD) for the image. Or I have to wipe and rebuild from
scratch. Surely, I must be missing something. Any thoughts out
there?

My goal is to have 1.5 TBs in a RAID 5 arrangment so I can begin to
capture hundreds of hours of video from old VHS and DV tapes.

I'm tempted to just install one additional 500 gig HD for a total of
two and just dedicate the second HD to video capture ala an old EIDE
(non-RAID) arrangement. I won't get the performance benefit from
striping. But do I really need it? Can I do this?

I'm running XP Pro on a Systemax with Q6600 processing. Only Vista
Business came on media with the machine so wiping the HD without first
imaging it will be a problem for me because I do not want to switch
(notice I did not say upgrade) to Vista at this time. And I just got
the PC the end of last year and I really don't want to go thru the
hassle of restoring Outlook, iTunes, Picassa, etc., etc. again so
soon.

Any help will be greatly appreciated.

Thanks.

 

[Bob I]

Better check your math! IF you have 500 gb drives AND you want 1.5 TB
total data storage you will need 4 drives for the array, not 3.

 

[Rod Speed]

I'm not exactly a newbie but I haven't written any books on this subject either.

The more I research converting from a one-drive set-up with a hardware
RAID capability to RAID 5, the more it seems ridiculously hard to do
so. This is what I understand it involves. First, I have to image my
existing 500 gig SATA HD. Then I need to wipe that HD and install 2
more HDs identical to the one I have. I then configure the 3 HDs to
RAID 5 and then restore the image I created at the beginning.

Using Acronis Home, I tried to image the existing HD by connecting
a 250 gig external (USB) HD (to store the image) and was told by
Acronis that the destination HD had to be identical to the source HD.

Thats mad. God knows what you were actually doing or what it said that
made you 'think' that thats what it was saying, but it never ever says that.

You should be imaging the original drive, not cloning it.

I don't understand why since only 140 gig of the source HD has been used.

Yeah, that operation will work fine.

If I can't work around this problem,

Corse you can.

that suggests that I would need a 4th (throw-away HD) for the image. Or I
have to wipe and rebuild from scratch. Surely, I must be missing something.
Yep.

Any thoughts out there?

You should be imaging the original drive, not cloning it.

My goal is to have 1.5 TBs in a RAID 5 arrangment so I can begin
to capture hundreds of hours of video from old VHS and DV tapes.

 

[smlunatick]

Thats mad. God knows what you were actually doing or what it said that
made you 'think' that thats what it was saying, but it never ever says that.

You should be imaging the original drive, not cloning it.


Yeah, that operation will work fine.


Corse you can.


You should be imaging the original drive, not cloning it.


- Show quoted text -

RAID 5 is mainly a RAID system based on a separate RAID controller
card. Make sure that the RAID 5 drivers exist for XP.

 

[HeyBub]

I'm not exactly a newbie but I haven't written any books on this
subject either.

The more I research converting from a one-drive set-up with a hardware
RAID capability to RAID 5, the more it seems ridiculously hard to do
so. This is what I understand it involves. First, I have to image my
existing 500 gig SATA HD. Then I need to wipe that HD and install 2
more HDs identical to the one I have. I then configure the 3 HDs to
RAID 5 and then restore the image I created at the beginning.

Using Acronis Home, I tried to image the existing HD by connecting a
250 gig external (USB) HD (to store the image) and was told by Acronis
that the destination HD had to be identical to the source HD. I don't
understand why since only 140 gig of the source HD has been used. If
I can't work around this problem, that suggests that I would need a
4th (throw-away HD) for the image. Or I have to wipe and rebuild from
scratch. Surely, I must be missing something. Any thoughts out
there?

My goal is to have 1.5 TBs in a RAID 5 arrangment so I can begin to
capture hundreds of hours of video from old VHS and DV tapes.

I'm tempted to just install one additional 500 gig HD for a total of
two and just dedicate the second HD to video capture ala an old EIDE
(non-RAID) arrangement. I won't get the performance benefit from
striping. But do I really need it? Can I do this?

I'm running XP Pro on a Systemax with Q6600 processing. Only Vista
Business came on media with the machine so wiping the HD without first
imaging it will be a problem for me because I do not want to switch
(notice I did not say upgrade) to Vista at this time. And I just got
the PC the end of last year and I really don't want to go thru the
hassle of restoring Outlook, iTunes, Picassa, etc., etc. again so
soon.

Any help will be greatly appreciated.

RAID 5 involves striping. Why on earth would you want to split your data
over several drives? The usual reason to do this is to diminish access time
when accessing data randomly. With TV editting, you're essentially accessing
the data sequentially and striping will gain zilch!

I take that back; stripping will gain increased complexity.

To emphasise: there is NO performance benefit to striping when the data are
accessed sequentially (or anything approaching sequential).

 

[Arno Wagner]

I'm not exactly a newbie but I haven't written any books on this
subject either.
[...]
My goal is to have 1.5 TBs in a RAID 5 arrangment so I can begin to
capture hundreds of hours of video from old VHS and DV tapes.

I'm tempted to just install one additional 500 gig HD for a total of
two and just dedicate the second HD to video capture ala an old EIDE
(non-RAID) arrangement. I won't get the performance benefit from
striping. But do I really need it? Can I do this?

[...]

I think the question is what you want to actually do. RAID5 is not for
speed. Unless yu have a fast hardware controller (recognizable by its
price, at the moment something like 500 USD and up), speed will
be slower than individual disks. My impression is that you do
not actually want RAID in any form.

Also messing with your system drive is probably a bad idea, if you
are not sure you can actually reliably backup and recreate it.

You also do not seem to want the RAID5 for added reliability,
correct? If so, use additional drives for your video-data.
Current deives should be fast enough even for high-resolution
streaming. As to size, I would advise to honestly estimate
how much space you need and then get 1.5x ... 2x that. TB
disks are really not that expensive.

As to reliability, RAID1 and RAID5 reduce down-time due to failed
disks. They do not replace backups. For backups the currently
cheapest solution is external USB HDDs. For files, just copy them
over. For system backups, yes, this is a bit difficult under
Windows, typically writing to an image file is best. (Linux:
use ye old tar archiver, which still does the trich reliably
and for free.)

Arno

 

[ritpg]

I'm not exactly a newbie but I haven't written any books on this
subject either.
[...]

My goal is to have 1.5 TBs in a RAID 5 arrangment so I can begin to
capture hundreds of hours of video from old VHS  and DV tapes.
I'm tempted to just install one additional 500 gig HD for a total of
two and just dedicate the second HD to video capture ala an old EIDE
(non-RAID) arrangement.  I won't get the performance benefit from
striping.  But do I really need it?  Can I do this?

[...]

I think the question is what you want to actually do. RAID5 is not for
speed. Unless yu have a fast hardware controller (recognizable by its
price, at the moment something like 500 USD and up), speed will
be slower than individual disks. My impression is that you do
not actually want RAID in any form.

Also messing with your system drive is probably a bad idea, if you
are not sure you can actually reliably backup and recreate it.

You also do not seem to want the RAID5 for added reliability,
correct? If so, use additional drives for your video-data.
Current deives should be fast enough even for high-resolution
streaming. As to size, I would advise to honestly estimate
how much space you need and then get 1.5x ... 2x that. TB
disks are really not that expensive.

As to reliability, RAID1 and RAID5 reduce down-time due to failed
disks. They do not replace backups. For backups the currently
cheapest solution is external USB HDDs. For files, just copy them
over. For system backups, yes, this is a bit difficult under
Windows, typically writing to an image file is best. (Linux:
use ye old tar archiver, which still does the trich reliably
and for free.)

Arno

Thanks to you all for the great feedback - even though I feel dumber
than a rock at this point. I had started out just wanting to add a
dedicated HD for video capture and editing. And that is all I want to
do at this point. I was under the impression that because my PC out
of the factory, was set up for RAID (with the controller card on the
motherboard) I was not going to be able to simply add a HD like I
would on my old PC which had EIDE architecture. I'm still not sure
what my options are. I guess I can understand that because I will be
dealing with large files that the data will be read into RAM serially
thus negating any benefit from striping (although I'd would wonder why
RAID wouldn't include the ability to initiate 2 reads in parallel even
for large files). So if this is true I have nothing to gain from RAID
0 (striping). And I don't really care about backing up the video
files (RAID 1) because I'm not throwing away the source media
(although some of the VHS tapes are a bit long in the tooth).
So I guess I go back to my original question. How do I add a single
500 gig HD to this PC without going thru the complexity of converting
to any of the RAID options (0, 1, 5, 10, etc.) all of which are
supposedly supported by my MB (with hardware RAID controllers added).

Thanks again.

 

[R. McCarty]

How many SATA channels does your motherboard provide ? To add
a new drive is basically just install the drive and connect it to a SATA
connector. I'd get a Seagate SATA with a 32-Megabyte cache that
uses Perpendicular data orientation. Just make sure you have adequate
power and cooling for the new drive. If your motherboard supports an
eSATA connector you might be better with an external drive to lessen
loading inside the PC cabinet. Sometimes you can even get a little more
performance by using a PCIe SATA card to host your new drive instead
of the on-board SATA controller.

I'm not exactly a newbie but I haven't written any books on this
subject either.
[...]

My goal is to have 1.5 TBs in a RAID 5 arrangment so I can begin to
capture hundreds of hours of video from old VHS and DV tapes.
I'm tempted to just install one additional 500 gig HD for a total of
two and just dedicate the second HD to video capture ala an old EIDE
(non-RAID) arrangement. I won't get the performance benefit from
striping. But do I really need it? Can I do this?

[...]

I think the question is what you want to actually do. RAID5 is not for
speed. Unless yu have a fast hardware controller (recognizable by its
price, at the moment something like 500 USD and up), speed will
be slower than individual disks. My impression is that you do
not actually want RAID in any form.

Also messing with your system drive is probably a bad idea, if you
are not sure you can actually reliably backup and recreate it.

You also do not seem to want the RAID5 for added reliability,
correct? If so, use additional drives for your video-data.
Current deives should be fast enough even for high-resolution
streaming. As to size, I would advise to honestly estimate
how much space you need and then get 1.5x ... 2x that. TB
disks are really not that expensive.

As to reliability, RAID1 and RAID5 reduce down-time due to failed
disks. They do not replace backups. For backups the currently
cheapest solution is external USB HDDs. For files, just copy them
over. For system backups, yes, this is a bit difficult under
Windows, typically writing to an image file is best. (Linux:
use ye old tar archiver, which still does the trich reliably
and for free.)

Arno

Thanks to you all for the great feedback - even though I feel dumber
than a rock at this point. I had started out just wanting to add a
dedicated HD for video capture and editing. And that is all I want to
do at this point. I was under the impression that because my PC out
of the factory, was set up for RAID (with the controller card on the
motherboard) I was not going to be able to simply add a HD like I
would on my old PC which had EIDE architecture. I'm still not sure
what my options are. I guess I can understand that because I will be
dealing with large files that the data will be read into RAM serially
thus negating any benefit from striping (although I'd would wonder why
RAID wouldn't include the ability to initiate 2 reads in parallel even
for large files). So if this is true I have nothing to gain from RAID
0 (striping). And I don't really care about backing up the video
files (RAID 1) because I'm not throwing away the source media
(although some of the VHS tapes are a bit long in the tooth).
So I guess I go back to my original question. How do I add a single
500 gig HD to this PC without going thru the complexity of converting
to any of the RAID options (0, 1, 5, 10, etc.) all of which are
supposedly supported by my MB (with hardware RAID controllers added).

Thanks again.

 

[HeyBub]

Thanks to you all for the great feedback - even though I feel dumber
than a rock at this point. I had started out just wanting to add a
dedicated HD for video capture and editing. And that is all I want to
do at this point. I was under the impression that because my PC out
of the factory, was set up for RAID (with the controller card on the
motherboard) I was not going to be able to simply add a HD like I
would on my old PC which had EIDE architecture. I'm still not sure
what my options are. I guess I can understand that because I will be
dealing with large files that the data will be read into RAM serially
thus negating any benefit from striping (although I'd would wonder why
RAID wouldn't include the ability to initiate 2 reads in parallel even
for large files). So if this is true I have nothing to gain from RAID
0 (striping). And I don't really care about backing up the video
files (RAID 1) because I'm not throwing away the source media
(although some of the VHS tapes are a bit long in the tooth).
So I guess I go back to my original question. How do I add a single
500 gig HD to this PC without going thru the complexity of converting
to any of the RAID options (0, 1, 5, 10, etc.) all of which are
supposedly supported by my MB (with hardware RAID controllers added).

Thanks again.

I'm glad we were able to prevent you from wandering down a maze with no end.

To answer you question of how to add a drive:
1) Plug in the power cable.
2) Plug in the data cable.
[3) Optional: secure drive with screws.]
4. Turn on computer. It should recognize the existence of the drive. You
might have to format the drive and should if it's not NTFS. The OS will
assign a drive letter.

 

[Rod Speed]

I'm not exactly a newbie but I haven't written any books on this
subject either.
[...]

My goal is to have 1.5 TBs in a RAID 5 arrangment so I can begin to
capture hundreds of hours of video from old VHS and DV tapes.
I'm tempted to just install one additional 500 gig HD for a total of
two and just dedicate the second HD to video capture ala an old EIDE
(non-RAID) arrangement. I won't get the performance benefit from
striping. But do I really need it? Can I do this?

[...]

I think the question is what you want to actually do. RAID5 is not
for speed. Unless yu have a fast hardware controller (recognizable
by its price, at the moment something like 500 USD and up), speed
will
be slower than individual disks. My impression is that you do
not actually want RAID in any form.

Also messing with your system drive is probably a bad idea, if you
are not sure you can actually reliably backup and recreate it.

You also do not seem to want the RAID5 for added reliability,
correct? If so, use additional drives for your video-data.
Current deives should be fast enough even for high-resolution
streaming. As to size, I would advise to honestly estimate
how much space you need and then get 1.5x ... 2x that. TB
disks are really not that expensive.

As to reliability, RAID1 and RAID5 reduce down-time due to failed
disks. They do not replace backups. For backups the currently
cheapest solution is external USB HDDs. For files, just copy them
over. For system backups, yes, this is a bit difficult under
Windows, typically writing to an image file is best. (Linux:
use ye old tar archiver, which still does the trich reliably
and for free.)

Thanks to you all for the great feedback - even though I feel
dumber than a rock at this point. I had started out just wanting to
add a dedicated HD for video capture and editing. And that is all
I want to do at this point. I was under the impression that because
my PC out of the factory, was set up for RAID (with the controller
card on the motherboard) I was not going to be able to simply
add a HD like I would on my old PC which had EIDE architecture.

You still add an extra hard drive the same way. The RAID functionality
is optional and you will find that the original drive isnt RAID.

I'm still not sure what my options are.

Just add a new drive of the size you feel you need, and forget about RAID.

I guess I can understand that because I will be dealing with large files that
the data will be read into RAM serially thus negating any benefit from striping

Its more complicated than that, but dont worry about it.

(although I'd would wonder why RAID wouldn't include
the ability to initiate 2 reads in parallel even for large files).

It does.

So if this is true I have nothing to gain from RAID 0 (striping).

The short story is that while raid 0 does give some increase in performance,
that isnt very useful for the sort of thing you want to do because the speed
of video editing isnt limited by the speed of access to the file, it limited by
the work done on the file when editing, and so on the cpu horsepower etc.

And I don't really care about backing up the video files
(RAID 1) because I'm not throwing away the source media
(although some of the VHS tapes are a bit long in the tooth).

Yes, in that situation doubling the cost of the drive(s) isnt necessarily
worth it when you can get it from the VHS tapes again if you ever need to.

So I guess I go back to my original question. How do I add a single
500 gig HD to this PC without going thru the complexity of converting
to any of the RAID options (0, 1, 5, 10, etc.) all of which are supposedly
supported by my MB (with hardware RAID controllers added).

Just plug the drive into the motherboard and see it show up in the bios.

 

[ritpg]

I'm not exactly a newbie but I haven't written any books on this
subject either.
[...]
My goal is to have 1.5 TBs in a RAID 5 arrangment so I can begin to
capture hundreds of hours of video from old VHS and DV tapes.
I'm tempted to just install one additional 500 gig HD for a total of
two and just dedicate the second HD to video capture ala an old EIDE
(non-RAID) arrangement. I won't get the performance benefit from
striping. But do I really need it? Can I do this?
[...]
I think the question is what you want to actually do. RAID5 is not
for speed. Unless yu have a fast hardware controller (recognizable
by its price, at the moment something like 500 USD and up), speed
will
be slower than individual disks. My impression is that you do
not actually want RAID in any form.
Also messing with your system drive is probably a bad idea, if you
are not sure you can actually reliably backup and recreate it.
You also do not seem to want the RAID5 for added reliability,
correct? If so, use additional drives for your video-data.
Current deives should be fast enough even for high-resolution
streaming. As to size, I would advise to honestly estimate
how much space you need and then get 1.5x ... 2x that. TB
disks are really not that expensive.
As to reliability, RAID1 and RAID5 reduce down-time due to failed
disks. They do not replace backups. For backups the currently
cheapest solution is external USB HDDs. For files, just copy them
over. For system backups, yes, this is a bit difficult under
Windows, typically writing to an image file is best. (Linux:
use ye old tar archiver, which still does the trich reliably
and for free.)

Thanks to you all for the great feedback  - even though I feel
dumber than a rock at this point.  I had started out just wanting to
add a dedicated HD for video capture and editing.  And that is all
I want to do at this point.  I was under the impression that because
my PC out of the factory, was set up for RAID (with the controller
card on the motherboard) I was not going to be able to simply
add a HD like I would on my old PC which had EIDE architecture.

You still add an extra hard drive the same way. The RAID functionality
is optional and you will find that the original drive isnt RAID.

I'm still not sure what my options are.

Just add a new drive of the size you feel you need, and forget about RAID.

I guess I can understand that because I will be dealing with large filesthat
the data will be read into RAM serially thus negating any benefit from striping

Its more complicated than that, but dont worry about it.

(although I'd would wonder why RAID wouldn't include
the ability to initiate 2 reads in parallel even for large files).

It does.

So if this is true I have nothing to gain from RAID 0 (striping).

The short story is that while raid 0 does give some increase in performance,
that isnt very useful for the sort of thing you want to do because the speed
of video editing isnt limited by the speed of access to the file, it limited by
the work done on the file when editing, and so on the cpu horsepower etc.

And I don't really care about backing up the video files
(RAID 1) because I'm not throwing away the source media
(although some of the VHS tapes are a bit long in the tooth).

Yes, in that situation doubling the cost of the drive(s) isnt necessarily
worth it when you can get it from the VHS tapes again if you ever need to.

So I guess I go back to my original question.  How do I add a single
500 gig HD to this PC without going thru the complexity of converting
to any of the RAID options (0, 1, 5, 10, etc.) all of which are supposedly
supported by my MB (with hardware RAID controllers added).

Just plug the drive into the motherboard and see it show up in the bios.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I can do that (just plug in a 2nd 500 gig SATA HD which I already
have) but how can I be sure I won't lose what is on the existing
drive. Is there any chance that could happen as I install the 2nd
drive?

Thanks.

 

[Arno Wagner]

In comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storageritpg<[email protected]> wrote:

I'm not exactly a newbie but I haven't written any books on this
subject either.

[...]

My goal is to have 1.5 TBs in a RAID 5 arrangment so I can begin to
capture hundreds of hours of video from old VHS and DV tapes.
I'm tempted to just install one additional 500 gig HD for a total of
two and just dedicate the second HD to video capture ala an old EIDE
(non-RAID) arrangement. I won't get the performance benefit from
striping. But do I really need it? Can I do this?

[...]

I think the question is what you want to actually do. RAID5 is not
for speed. Unless yu have a fast hardware controller (recognizable
by its price, at the moment something like 500 USD and up), speed
will
be slower than individual disks. My impression is that you do
not actually want RAID in any form.

Also messing with your system drive is probably a bad idea, if you
are not sure you can actually reliably backup and recreate it.

You also do not seem to want the RAID5 for added reliability,
correct? If so, use additional drives for your video-data.
Current deives should be fast enough even for high-resolution
streaming. As to size, I would advise to honestly estimate
how much space you need and then get 1.5x ... 2x that. TB
disks are really not that expensive.

As to reliability, RAID1 and RAID5 reduce down-time due to failed
disks. They do not replace backups. For backups the currently
cheapest solution is external USB HDDs. For files, just copy them
over. For system backups, yes, this is a bit difficult under
Windows, typically writing to an image file is best. (Linux:
use ye old tar archiver, which still does the trich reliably
and for free.)
Thanks to you all for the great feedback  - even though I feel
dumber than a rock at this point.  I had started out just wanting to
add a dedicated HD for video capture and editing.  And that is all
I want to do at this point.  I was under the impression that because
my PC out of the factory, was set up for RAID (with the controller
card on the motherboard) I was not going to be able to simply
add a HD like I would on my old PC which had EIDE architecture.

You still add an extra hard drive the same way. The RAID functionality
is optional and you will find that the original drive isnt RAID.

I'm still not sure what my options are.

Just add a new drive of the size you feel you need, and forget about RAID.

I guess I can understand that because I will be dealing with large files that
the data will be read into RAM serially thus negating any benefit from striping

Its more complicated than that, but dont worry about it.

(although I'd would wonder why RAID wouldn't include
the ability to initiate 2 reads in parallel even for large files).

It does.

So if this is true I have nothing to gain from RAID 0 (striping).

The short story is that while raid 0 does give some increase in performance,
that isnt very useful for the sort of thing you want to do because the speed
of video editing isnt limited by the speed of access to the file, it limited by
the work done on the file when editing, and so on the cpu horsepower etc.

And I don't really care about backing up the video files
(RAID 1) because I'm not throwing away the source media
(although some of the VHS tapes are a bit long in the tooth).

Yes, in that situation doubling the cost of the drive(s) isnt necessarily
worth it when you can get it from the VHS tapes again if you ever need to.

So I guess I go back to my original question.  How do I add a single
500 gig HD to this PC without going thru the complexity of converting
to any of the RAID options (0, 1, 5, 10, etc.) all of which are supposedly
supported by my MB (with hardware RAID controllers added).

Just plug the drive into the motherboard and see it show up in the bios.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I can do that (just plug in a 2nd 500 gig SATA HD which I already
have) but how can I be sure I won't lose what is on the existing
drive. Is there any chance that could happen as I install the 2nd
drive?

Unlikely. There can be partition shift (MS stupidity that
a primary partition on the second drive gets inserted in the
drive letter sequence in second place), but that is it.

If your new drive is unpartitioned, even that is not
really a risk. Just don't put a primary partition on it. Of
course if you accidentially mess with partitions or filesystems
on the first disk, instead of the second, you may losse data.

Arno

 

[Eric Gisin]

None at all.

Unlikely. There can be partition shift (MS stupidity that
a primary partition on the second drive gets inserted in the
drive letter sequence in second place), but that is it.

Escaped Mental Patient ALERT! Arnie is having another episode.

 

[Frank-FL]

Thanks to you all for the great feedback - even though I feel dumber
than a rock at this point. I had started out just wanting to add a
dedicated HD for video capture and editing. And that is all I want to
do at this point. I was under the impression that because my PC out
of the factory, was set up for RAID (with the controller card on the
motherboard) I was not going to be able to simply add a HD like I
would on my old PC which had EIDE architecture. I'm still not sure
what my options are. I guess I can understand that because I will be
dealing with large files that the data will be read into RAM serially
thus negating any benefit from striping (although I'd would wonder why
RAID wouldn't include the ability to initiate 2 reads in parallel even
for large files). So if this is true I have nothing to gain from RAID
0 (striping). And I don't really care about backing up the video
files (RAID 1) because I'm not throwing away the source media
(although some of the VHS tapes are a bit long in the tooth).
So I guess I go back to my original question. How do I add a single
500 gig HD to this PC without going thru the complexity of converting
to any of the RAID options (0, 1, 5, 10, etc.) all of which are
supposedly supported by my MB (with hardware RAID controllers added).

I have seen this many times on proprietary systems where they were set
up as a RAID (redundant array of inexpensive disks) with only one disk
installed. This is a misconfiguration in the CMOS/BIOS settings.
RAID/AHCI.

 

[Rod Speed]

In comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storageritpg<[email protected]> wrote:

I'm not exactly a newbie but I haven't written any books on this
subject either.

[...]

My goal is to have 1.5 TBs in a RAID 5 arrangment so I can begin
to capture hundreds of hours of video from old VHS and DV tapes.
I'm tempted to just install one additional 500 gig HD for a total
of two and just dedicate the second HD to video capture ala an
old EIDE (non-RAID) arrangement. I won't get the performance
benefit from striping. But do I really need it? Can I do this?

[...]

I think the question is what you want to actually do. RAID5 is not
for speed. Unless yu have a fast hardware controller (recognizable
by its price, at the moment something like 500 USD and up), speed
will
be slower than individual disks. My impression is that you do
not actually want RAID in any form.

Also messing with your system drive is probably a bad idea, if you
are not sure you can actually reliably backup and recreate it.

You also do not seem to want the RAID5 for added reliability,
correct? If so, use additional drives for your video-data.
Current deives should be fast enough even for high-resolution
streaming. As to size, I would advise to honestly estimate
how much space you need and then get 1.5x ... 2x that. TB
disks are really not that expensive.

As to reliability, RAID1 and RAID5 reduce down-time due to failed
disks. They do not replace backups. For backups the currently
cheapest solution is external USB HDDs. For files, just copy them
over. For system backups, yes, this is a bit difficult under
Windows, typically writing to an image file is best. (Linux:
use ye old tar archiver, which still does the trich reliably
and for free.)
Thanks to you all for the great feedback - even though I feel
dumber than a rock at this point. I had started out just wanting to
add a dedicated HD for video capture and editing. And that is all
I want to do at this point. I was under the impression that because
my PC out of the factory, was set up for RAID (with the controller
card on the motherboard) I was not going to be able to simply
add a HD like I would on my old PC which had EIDE architecture.

You still add an extra hard drive the same way. The RAID
functionality
is optional and you will find that the original drive isnt RAID.

I'm still not sure what my options are.

Just add a new drive of the size you feel you need, and forget about
RAID.

I guess I can understand that because I will be dealing with large
files that the data will be read into RAM serially thus negating
any benefit from striping

Its more complicated than that, but dont worry about it.

(although I'd would wonder why RAID wouldn't include
the ability to initiate 2 reads in parallel even for large files).

It does.

So if this is true I have nothing to gain from RAID 0 (striping).

The short story is that while raid 0 does give some increase in
performance,
that isnt very useful for the sort of thing you want to do because
the speed
of video editing isnt limited by the speed of access to the file, it
limited by
the work done on the file when editing, and so on the cpu horsepower
etc.

And I don't really care about backing up the video files
(RAID 1) because I'm not throwing away the source media
(although some of the VHS tapes are a bit long in the tooth).

Yes, in that situation doubling the cost of the drive(s) isnt
necessarily
worth it when you can get it from the VHS tapes again if you ever
need to.

So I guess I go back to my original question. How do I add a single
500 gig HD to this PC without going thru the complexity of
converting
to any of the RAID options (0, 1, 5, 10, etc.) all of which are
supposedly supported by my MB (with hardware RAID controllers
added).

Just plug the drive into the motherboard and see it show up in the bios.

I can do that (just plug in a 2nd 500 gig SATA HD which I already have)
but how can I be sure I won't lose what is on the existing drive.

That shouldnt happen, but the only way to be completely
sure is to have a full backup of the original drive.

Is there any chance that could happen as I install the 2nd drive?

Its certainly possible to stuff things up when adding a 2nd drive.

It shouldnt happen if you are careful, but it does sound like
you arent all that fluent with systems, so there is some risk.

But you are taking a considerable risk not having a full backup of the original drive
anyway. That drive could just die at any time, even before you add a 2nd drive.

At least backup the stuff you cant just reinstall. A DVD burner doesnt cost much
and unless you have a lot of video files that you have created yourself etc, that
should be quite adequate to backup what most have created on a system.

 

[ritpg]

I'm not exactly a newbie but I haven't written any books on this
subject either.
[...]
My goal is to have 1.5 TBs in a RAID 5 arrangment so I can begin
to capture hundreds of hours of video from old VHS and DV tapes.
I'm tempted to just install one additional 500 gig HD for a total
of two and just dedicate the second HD to video capture ala an
old EIDE (non-RAID) arrangement. I won't get the performance
benefit from striping. But do I really need it? Can I do this?
[...]
I think the question is what you want to actually do. RAID5 is not
for speed. Unless yu have a fast hardware controller (recognizable
by its price, at the moment something like 500 USD and up), speed
will
be slower than individual disks. My impression is that you do
not actually want RAID in any form.
Also messing with your system drive is probably a bad idea, if you
are not sure you can actually reliably backup and recreate it.
You also do not seem to want the RAID5 for added reliability,
correct? If so, use additional drives for your video-data.
Current deives should be fast enough even for high-resolution
streaming. As to size, I would advise to honestly estimate
how much space you need and then get 1.5x ... 2x that. TB
disks are really not that expensive.
As to reliability, RAID1 and RAID5 reduce down-time due to failed
disks. They do not replace backups. For backups the currently
cheapest solution is external USB HDDs. For files, just copy them
over. For system backups, yes, this is a bit difficult under
Windows, typically writing to an image file is best. (Linux:
use ye old tar archiver, which still does the trich reliably
and for free.)
Thanks to you all for the great feedback - even though I feel
dumber than a rock at this point. I had started out just wanting to
add a dedicated HD for video capture and editing. And that is all
I want to do at this point. I was under the impression that because
my PC out of the factory, was set up for RAID (with the controller
card on the motherboard) I was not going to be able to simply
add a HD like I would on my old PC which had EIDE architecture.
You still add an extra hard drive the same way. The RAID
functionality
is optional and you will find that the original drive isnt RAID.
I'm still not sure what my options are.
Just add a new drive of the size you feel you need, and forget about
RAID.
I guess I can understand that because I will be dealing with large
files that the data will be read into RAM serially thus negating
any benefit from striping
Its more complicated than that, but dont worry about it.
(although I'd would wonder why RAID wouldn't include
the ability to initiate 2 reads in parallel even for large files).
It does.
So if this is true I have nothing to gain from RAID 0 (striping).
The short story is that while raid 0 does give some increase in
performance,
that isnt very useful for the sort of thing you want to do because
the speed
of video editing isnt limited by the speed of access to the file, it
limited by
the work done on the file when editing, and so on the cpu horsepower
etc.
And I don't really care about backing up the video files
(RAID 1) because I'm not throwing away the source media
(although some of the VHS tapes are a bit long in the tooth).
Yes, in that situation doubling the cost of the drive(s) isnt
necessarily
worth it when you can get it from the VHS tapes again if you ever
need to.
So I guess I go back to my original question. How do I add a single
500 gig HD to this PC without going thru the complexity of
converting
to any of the RAID options (0, 1, 5, 10, etc.) all of which are
supposedly supported by my MB (with hardware RAID controllers
added).
Just plug the drive into the motherboard and see it show up in the bios..

I can do that (just plug in a 2nd 500 gig SATA HD which I already have)
but how can I be sure I won't lose what is on the existing drive.

That shouldnt happen, but the only way to be completely
sure is to have a full backup of the original drive.

Is there any chance that could happen as I install the 2nd drive?

Its certainly possible to stuff things up when adding a 2nd drive.

It shouldnt happen if you are careful, but it does sound like
you arent all that fluent with systems, so there is some risk.

But you are taking a considerable risk not having a full backup of the original drive
anyway. That drive could just die at any time, even before you add a 2nd drive.

At least backup the stuff you cant just reinstall. A DVD burner doesnt cost much
and unless you have a lot of video files that you have created yourself etc, that
should be quite adequate to backup what most have created on a system.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I have 250 gig of USB external HD available which should hold the 140
gig of OS, apps, and data on my primary HD. I need to get up to speed
on how to image the primary HD. The version of Acronis I have seems
to be able to clone, buy not image, my HD. And cloning requires the
HDs to be identical in size which creates a problem for me.

 

[Rod Speed]

In comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storageritpg<[email protected]>
wrote:

I'm not exactly a newbie but I haven't written any books on this
subject either.

[...]

My goal is to have 1.5 TBs in a RAID 5 arrangment so I can begin
to capture hundreds of hours of video from old VHS and DV tapes.
I'm tempted to just install one additional 500 gig HD for a
total of two and just dedicate the second HD to video capture
ala an old EIDE (non-RAID) arrangement. I won't get the
performance benefit from striping. But do I really need it? Can
I do this?

[...]

I think the question is what you want to actually do. RAID5 is
not for speed. Unless yu have a fast hardware controller
(recognizable by its price, at the moment something like 500 USD
and up), speed will
be slower than individual disks. My impression is that you do
not actually want RAID in any form.

Also messing with your system drive is probably a bad idea, if
you are not sure you can actually reliably backup and recreate
it.

You also do not seem to want the RAID5 for added reliability,
correct? If so, use additional drives for your video-data.
Current deives should be fast enough even for high-resolution
streaming. As to size, I would advise to honestly estimate
how much space you need and then get 1.5x ... 2x that. TB
disks are really not that expensive.

As to reliability, RAID1 and RAID5 reduce down-time due to failed
disks. They do not replace backups. For backups the currently
cheapest solution is external USB HDDs. For files, just copy them
over. For system backups, yes, this is a bit difficult under
Windows, typically writing to an image file is best. (Linux:
use ye old tar archiver, which still does the trich reliably
and for free.)
Thanks to you all for the great feedback - even though I feel
dumber than a rock at this point. I had started out just wanting
to add a dedicated HD for video capture and editing. And that is
all I want to do at this point. I was under the impression that
because my PC out of the factory, was set up for RAID (with the
controller card on the motherboard) I was not going to be able to
simply
add a HD like I would on my old PC which had EIDE architecture.

You still add an extra hard drive the same way. The RAID
functionality
is optional and you will find that the original drive isnt RAID.

I'm still not sure what my options are.

Just add a new drive of the size you feel you need, and forget
about RAID.

I guess I can understand that because I will be dealing with large
files that the data will be read into RAM serially thus negating
any benefit from striping

Its more complicated than that, but dont worry about it.

(although I'd would wonder why RAID wouldn't include
the ability to initiate 2 reads in parallel even for large files).

It does.

So if this is true I have nothing to gain from RAID 0 (striping).

The short story is that while raid 0 does give some increase in
performance,
that isnt very useful for the sort of thing you want to do because
the speed
of video editing isnt limited by the speed of access to the file,
it limited by
the work done on the file when editing, and so on the cpu
horsepower etc.

And I don't really care about backing up the video files
(RAID 1) because I'm not throwing away the source media
(although some of the VHS tapes are a bit long in the tooth).

Yes, in that situation doubling the cost of the drive(s) isnt
necessarily
worth it when you can get it from the VHS tapes again if you ever
need to.

So I guess I go back to my original question. How do I add a
single 500 gig HD to this PC without going thru the complexity of
converting
to any of the RAID options (0, 1, 5, 10, etc.) all of which are
supposedly supported by my MB (with hardware RAID controllers
added).

Just plug the drive into the motherboard and see it show up in the
bios.
I can do that (just plug in a 2nd 500 gig SATA HD which I already
have) but how can I be sure I won't lose what is on the existing
drive.

That shouldnt happen, but the only way to be completely
sure is to have a full backup of the original drive.

Is there any chance that could happen as I install the 2nd drive?

Its certainly possible to stuff things up when adding a 2nd drive.

It shouldnt happen if you are careful, but it does sound like
you arent all that fluent with systems, so there is some risk.

But you are taking a considerable risk not having a full backup of
the original drive anyway. That drive could just die at any time,
even before you add a 2nd drive.
At least backup the stuff you cant just reinstall. A DVD burner doesnt cost much
and unless you have a lot of video files that you have created yourself etc, that
should be quite adequate to backup what most have created on a system.

I have 250 gig of USB external HD available which should
hold the 140 gig of OS, apps, and data on my primary HD.

Yep, that will be fine.

I need to get up to speed on how to image the primary HD. The version
of Acronis I have seems to be able to clone, buy not image, my HD.

Thats not right. That wasnt true of any version of TI.

And cloning requires the HDs to be identical in size

No it doesnt.

which creates a problem for me.

I cant imagine what you are actually doing, but you're stuffing it up completely somehow.

Which version of TI are you actually using ?

 

[Arno Wagner]

Thanks to you all for the great feedback - even though I feel dumber
than a rock at this point.

Don't worry about that, just keep being inquisitive.

I had started out just wanting to add a
dedicated HD for video capture and editing. And that is all I want to
do at this point. I was under the impression that because my PC out
of the factory, was set up for RAID (with the controller card on the
motherboard) I was not going to be able to simply add a HD like I
would on my old PC which had EIDE architecture. I'm still not sure
what my options are.

Unfortunately that depends on the controller. If you are lucky,
you can just add a drive, nit set it up in the RAID BIOS
and have it show up as ordinary drive. The second best thing
is that you need to configure the new drive as "non RAID",
"pass through" or the like in the RAID BIOS. As to how to get
to the RAID BIOS, there should be a message during the booting
process about pressing some key or other to get into the RAID
controller BIOS/utility.

I guess I can understand that because I will be
dealing with large files that the data will be read into RAM serially
thus negating any benefit from striping (although I'd would wonder why
RAID wouldn't include the ability to initiate 2 reads in parallel even
for large files).

Complexity and available bandwidth. I am using a setup at my
workplace that uses pretty expensive ARCEA RAID controllers
and they do deliver something like 250MB/s on RAID6, I think
also for writing. However these cost as much as several disks.
Slower controllers will not have the bandwidth and computing power.
I have seen 80MB/s reading speed with Linux software RAID1
and disks that deliver about 45MB/s in the past, but that was on
a fast server board. Again, bandwidth issues. On writing, there
was no speed-up.

You are right, that the designers of the cheap controllers could
do better. But then they would need 1) more time 2) more competence
3) management interesst in a better product. The low-end on-board
RAID controllers are typically unflexible and slow.

So if this is true I have nothing to gain from RAID
0 (striping). And I don't really care about backing up the video
files (RAID 1)

RAID1 is not backup. Just reduction of downtime if a disk fails.

because I'm not throwing away the source media
(although some of the VHS tapes are a bit long in the tooth).
So I guess I go back to my original question. How do I add a single
500 gig HD to this PC without going thru the complexity of converting
to any of the RAID options (0, 1, 5, 10, etc.) all of which are
supposedly supported by my MB (with hardware RAID controllers added).

1. Plug it in (there may be different options)
If RAID and non-RAID conectors are available, use a non-RAID one.
2. If the OS sees it, fine, partition and use it.
3. If the OS does not see it, go into the RAID BIOS and
try to set it up as non-raided.
4. If all esle fails, you can get an SATA controller card for one or two
disks that does not support RAID and try to connect via that one.

Sorry about this, but device management in the PC is still a mess.

I have seen this many times on proprietary systems where they were set
up as a RAID (redundant array of inexpensive disks) with only one disk
installed. This is a misconfiguration in the CMOS/BIOS settings.
RAID/AHCI.

Indeed. And with some bad luck it can even cause serious problems.

Arno