Cloning OEM XP PC's?

W

William Stokes

Hello,

I am trying to clone XP SP2 pc's that are purchased from HP with Windows XP
OEM licence. (Atleast it think so because there's the -OEM- part in the
product ID.)
All PC's have the XP product key sticker with the original product key in
it.

After image restore (with Ghost 8.3 and Sysprep run) the XP want's me to
activate the it. When I try activate it with the original product key from
the sticker the key is invalid!

Why is that? Do one need to have Volume Licenses in order to clone XP pc's?
Is there some way to get rid of the whole activation when cloning several
pc's? Can OEM XP's be cloned at all?



Thanks
-Will
 
R

Rick \Nutcase\ Rogers

Hi,

OEM Product Keys need to be phoned in, they do not internet-activate. You
would need a volume license to avoid activation.

--
Best of Luck,

Rick Rogers, aka "Nutcase" - Microsoft MVP

Associate Expert - WindowsXP Expert Zone

Windows help - www.rickrogers.org
 
R

R. McCarty

You've run up against once of those openings in a process that is now
plugged up. There is a problem with the unauthorized use of Product
Keys on OEM PCs. While the license key is valid, it is not used at the
factory.There the OEMs use a master image (Different Product Key)
and then apply the individual license sticker to the case or underside
of the notebook. To stop this use of the OEM keys, Microsoft has
the product activation disabled - forcing a phone call to activate. The
major OEMs (HP, Dell & Gateway) may be affected but seems to
vary between vendors. A Volume License version would be a better
choice
 
A

Alias

Rick said:
Hi,

OEM Product Keys need to be phoned in, they do not internet-activate. You
would need a volume license to avoid activation.

You mean brand named OEMs, not generic OEMs, right?

Alias

Use the Reply to Sender feature of your news reader program to email me.
Utiliza Responder al Remitente para mandarme un mail.
 
W

William Stokes

Yeah.

This licensing stuff just keep getting better. I Called our PC supplier
(DELL) to ask if we could purchase the PC's with no OEM OS. They said yes,
sure but the price is the SAME with or without an WinXP!

So if I want to start using Volume Licenses on new PC's, to avoid the
product activation after cloning, do I need to aquire Windows XP volume
licenses from MS reseller and pay for it full price? This would mean that I
get one OS license with the OEM manufacturer and pay for another directly to
Microsoft! This can't be right! What have I misunderstood? How large
companies normally handle their XP licenses?

I really don't want to call to MS every time I have cloned (with Sysprep) a
PC or restored one from image.

Thanks
-Will
 
K

Kerry Brown

William said:
Yeah.

This licensing stuff just keep getting better. I Called our PC
supplier (DELL) to ask if we could purchase the PC's with no OEM OS.
They said yes, sure but the price is the SAME with or without an
WinXP!
So if I want to start using Volume Licenses on new PC's, to avoid the
product activation after cloning, do I need to aquire Windows XP
volume licenses from MS reseller and pay for it full price? This
would mean that I get one OS license with the OEM manufacturer and
pay for another directly to Microsoft! This can't be right! What have
I misunderstood? How large companies normally handle their XP
licenses?
I really don't want to call to MS every time I have cloned (with
Sysprep) a PC or restored one from image.

Thanks
-Will

The VL for XP is an upgrade. There has to be an underlying license for XP
according to the VL agreement. I know it doesn't seem to make much sense
buying XP twice but this is the way it works. Buy the cheapest XP, probably
Home, that you can get with the pc's then image them with the VL product and
key. This has the added advantage of reusing the disk space the HP restore
partition takes up (not much) and getting rid of the factory installed
spyware. Other products like Office have different terms. Here's a link to a
faq on volume licenses.

http://www.microsoft.com/licensing/resources/faq.mspx

Here's a link to an online wizard to help determine which license is best
for you. You will also find phone numbers here.

http://www.microsoft.com/licensing/mplahome.mspx

Kerry
 
R

Rick \Nutcase\ Rogers

Hi,

Correct, I was not referring to generic OEM versions.

--
Best of Luck,

Rick Rogers, aka "Nutcase" - Microsoft MVP

Associate Expert - WindowsXP Expert Zone

Windows help - www.rickrogers.org
 
A

ANONYMOUS

Dell & HP don't normally sell you without any OS. The only company that
can install for you Volume Licensed OS is RM (http://www.rm.com/). You
just need to give then your VLK and they will preload the OS for you
before shipping. They can also clone the system for you in a hidden
partition.

I thought DELL has started cloning its systems except that you need to
buy PC Restore recovery system by Symantec from DELL.

Actually, you can ghost the original system DELL or HP and you don't
need to activate it when you restore your system from the images. I
don't know if this is what you meant!

hth
 
W

William Stokes

"Actually, you can ghost the original system DELL or HP and you don't
need to activate it when you restore your system from the images."

Not quite. I can Ghost restore the image to same PC without having to
activate it. BUT if I want to restore the image to another PC I need to run
Sysprep and in this case after restore the activation is required and anly
available via telephone.

I need to restore the image to other computers to save time with
OS&application installs.

-Will
 
G

Guest

Sorry to butt in on this link.

I don`t understand the license issues when imaging an oem machine to
multiple machines.
I need to create an image from a machine supplied by HP with an OEM license
and distribute to a number of other machines. Using sysprep.

I can create the sysprep file and use Mini setup. This prompts me for the
Product Key. Should i use the product key from the master image, from the oem
label on the new machines or use a Volume license key.

If i have to use the OEM label on the new machines, will i have to Activate
each machine? once imaged.

If i use the master OEM license key is there any licensing implications?
Sorry for being a bit dimm,but this licensing issue is very difficult to
understand.
I hope someone can help.

Thanks
Stephen
 
K

Kerry Brown

Sparks said:
Sorry to butt in on this link.

I don`t understand the license issues when imaging an oem machine to
multiple machines.
I need to create an image from a machine supplied by HP with an OEM
license and distribute to a number of other machines. Using sysprep.

I can create the sysprep file and use Mini setup. This prompts me for
the Product Key. Should i use the product key from the master image,
from the oem label on the new machines or use a Volume license key.

If i have to use the OEM label on the new machines, will i have to
Activate each machine? once imaged.

If i use the master OEM license key is there any licensing
implications? Sorry for being a bit dimm,but this licensing issue is
very difficult to understand.
I hope someone can help.

Thanks
Stephen

You should use the key on the OEM label. Each machine will have to be
activated and you will have to phone for each activation. You should
investigate purchasing a Volume License.

Kerry
 
F

furtherside

Sorry for the snipped reference, but for some reason (?) google
wouldn't let me reply/post to the OP's append.

I ran into this exact issue with the small lab of 25 computers I am
trying to set up for the school my daughter attends. Here's the link
to the topic where I was asking about the issues with Sysprep and the
"three try" limit:

http://snipurl.com/nepo

Anyway, I found that the limit is true, and Sysprep seems to be
shutting off access to the internet, thus requiring telephone
activation. I can't believe that I'm sitting in a room full of 25
computers, all with valid product license decals on them -- and
minisetup asks for the license key -- but that's not good enough. I
now have to make 25 six-minute phone calls keying in a 42 digit number
two times for each machine. That's 2.5 hours of time wasted.

There is no way we are spending money on a volume license when we
already have valid licenses on each OEM machine. I think MS really
missed the boat here and put a whole lot of folks who do this
small-scale customization/cloning of a few machines for small offices
or labs at a real disadvantage.

-Chris
 
C

Carey Frisch [MVP]

Preserving OEM Pre-Activation when Re-installing Windows XP
http://www.microsoft.com/technet/prodtechnol/winxppro/deploy/oempreac.mspx

--
Carey Frisch
Microsoft MVP
Windows - Shell/User
Microsoft Community Newsgroups
news://msnews.microsoft.com/

---------------------------------------------------------------------------­----------------

:

Sorry for the snipped reference, but for some reason (?) google
wouldn't let me reply/post to the OP's append.

I ran into this exact issue with the small lab of 25 computers I am
trying to set up for the school my daughter attends. Here's the link
to the topic where I was asking about the issues with Sysprep and the
"three try" limit:

http://snipurl.com/nepo

Anyway, I found that the limit is true, and Sysprep seems to be
shutting off access to the internet, thus requiring telephone
activation. I can't believe that I'm sitting in a room full of 25
computers, all with valid product license decals on them -- and
minisetup asks for the license key -- but that's not good enough. I
now have to make 25 six-minute phone calls keying in a 42 digit number
two times for each machine. That's 2.5 hours of time wasted.

There is no way we are spending money on a volume license when we
already have valid licenses on each OEM machine. I think MS really
missed the boat here and put a whole lot of folks who do this
small-scale customization/cloning of a few machines for small offices
or labs at a real disadvantage.

-Chris
 
F

furtherside

Carey said:
Preserving OEM Pre-Activation when Re-installing Windows XP
http://www.microsoft.com/technet/prodtechnol/winxppro/deploy/oempreac.mspx

--
Carey Frisch
Microsoft MVP
Windows - Shell/User
Microsoft Community Newsgroups
news://msnews.microsoft.com/

---------------------------------------------------------------------------­----------------

I'm willing to try this -- but the instructions linked talk about
retaining the activation when re-installing XP. Keep in mind that I am
not re-installing XP -- I am cloning it to a bunch of clients. Each
client had come with an OEM pre-install and has a valid COA sticker,
with a unique license code.

I have a feeling that the instructions you cite are only for
re-installing on the same machine, thus preserving the license code
that was there already and not forcing the user through re-validation.

If I use this process on my clones, I suspect that I will end up with a
lab full of machines that all have the same license key from the
original imaged machine -- which is a problem.

I wonder if there is a way to do this, using the instructions you
linked, but then as a final "tweaking" step on the newly built clone,
replacing the XP license key with the correct key that's on the sticker
on the side of the computer (?) -- of course, without again being
forced into telephone authentication.

-Chris
 
K

Kerry Brown

I'm willing to try this -- but the instructions linked talk about
retaining the activation when re-installing XP. Keep in mind that I
am
not re-installing XP -- I am cloning it to a bunch of clients. Each
client had come with an OEM pre-install and has a valid COA sticker,
with a unique license code.

I have a feeling that the instructions you cite are only for
re-installing on the same machine, thus preserving the license code
that was there already and not forcing the user through re-validation.

If I use this process on my clones, I suspect that I will end up with
a
lab full of machines that all have the same license key from the
original imaged machine -- which is a problem.

I wonder if there is a way to do this, using the instructions you
linked, but then as a final "tweaking" step on the newly built clone,
replacing the XP license key with the correct key that's on the
sticker
on the side of the computer (?) -- of course, without again being
forced into telephone authentication.

Most large OEM's come from the factory with a factory key that is
pre-authorised. If you reinstall Windows this key won't work you must use
the one on the COA and you will have to phone in. I haven't tried the
procedure at the link because I was unaware of it but it looks like with
this procedure you could run sysprep on the factory installation then clone
it to other machines without losing the factory pre-authorisation. What you
couldn't do is reinstall Windows before cloning the machine. You would have
to use the original factory install if I read it right. The procedure would
be to start up one machine. Install or remove programs as needed then follow
one of the procedures at the link to clone it for deployment. The factory
pre-authorisation will be preserved on the clones. They will all have the
same factory key but the SIDs, computer names etc. will be generated by the
mini setup on first boot. If this is possible it will save a lot of grief
when deploying Dell, HP etc.

Kerry
 
F

furtherside

Kerry said:
Most large OEM's come from the factory with a factory key that is
pre-authorised. If you reinstall Windows this key won't work you must use
the one on the COA and you will have to phone in. I haven't tried the
procedure at the link because I was unaware of it but it looks like with
this procedure you could run sysprep on the factory installation then clone
it to other machines without losing the factory pre-authorisation. What you
couldn't do is reinstall Windows before cloning the machine. You would have
to use the original factory install if I read it right. The procedure would
be to start up one machine. Install or remove programs as needed then follow
one of the procedures at the link to clone it for deployment. The factory
pre-authorisation will be preserved on the clones. They will all have the
same factory key but the SIDs, computer names etc. will be generated by the
mini setup on first boot. If this is possible it will save a lot of grief
when deploying Dell, HP etc.

Kerry

Okay, that makes sense. Unfortunately, I blew it already since I was
experimenting on the 'master' machine trying to learn how to use
Sysprep, and I ended up running sysprep/reboot at which point it asked
me for the product key. I used the one on the sticker, and had to
phone in for authentication. So, all the work I put into getting the
'master' machine ready was wasted since it has now lost its original
'factory' product key.

I could pull another fresh machine out of a box and start again, but I
don't know which is worse now; doing that or just phoning in all the
machines I need to build.

-Chris
 
F

furtherside

Okay, that makes sense. Unfortunately, I blew it already since I was
experimenting on the 'master' machine trying to learn how to use
Sysprep, and I ended up running sysprep/reboot at which point it asked
me for the product key. I used the one on the sticker, and had to
phone in for authentication. So, all the work I put into getting the
'master' machine ready was wasted since it has now lost its original
'factory' product key.

I could pull another fresh machine out of a box and start again, but I
don't know which is worse now; doing that or just phoning in all the
machines I need to build.

-Chris

Okay, an update in case any future archeologists dig up this thread...I
ended up rebuilding my 'master' machine from scratch. Everything went
well, and using the 'special' product key from this article:

"Preserving OEM Pre-Activation when Re-installing Windows XP"

http://www.microsoft.com/technet/prodtechnol/winxppro/deploy/oempreac.mspx

in fact does work and Sysprep chugs along with mini-setup and the
machine comes up fully authenticated and validated with it's own SID
established. Yay!

I did run into another major problem, however. I got each of the
accounts on the machine configured (desktop layout, power schemes,
background image, etc.), including using the MS Shared Computer Toolkit
to dial in additional restrictions to the user accounts. After running
Sysprep and doing the clone, upon booting the cloned machine it seems
as if something about mini-setup is blowing away all the customizations
of the user accounts. In fact, it puts the machine in a state where
the Shared Toolkit is rendered unusable, to try to redo the
restrictions on the accounts.

So, I found a KB article which hopefully applies to this situation. I
had to call MS and order the hotfix, which they did email to me so I
will try it this week. Here is the reference:

"Changes in behavior of the SysPrep and RIPREP tools after you install
Windows XP Service Pack 2"

http://support.microsoft.com/?kbid=887816

After I try this hotfix I'll report back as to whether or not it solved
this last issue.

-Chris
 
K

Kerry Brown

Thanks for the update. I've never used sysprep with the Shared Computer
Tookit. Let us know how it owrks out.
 
F

furtherside

Kerry said:
Thanks for the update. I've never used sysprep with the Shared Computer
Tookit. Let us know how it owrks out.

Well....another late (late) night up in the school computer lab last
night. I had mixed success (or mixed failure, depending on how you
want to look at it):

The hotfix for Sysprep (actually for Syssetup.dll) did take care of the
problem where the administrator account settings were being mapped to
each of the user accounts on the computer. However, there is still a
nasty interaction with the MS Shared Computer Toolkit and even this
patched version of Sysprep.

If you use the SCT to set account profile restrictions, apparently what
it does is create a "roaming" profile for each user account. This new
profile is called "<accountname>.orig". This means that upon logon, XP
is copying the account settings (NTUSER.DAT, among other stuff) to a
profile it builds on the fly, called <accountname>. This is so that if
the user of the computer messes around with settings that pertain to
the desktop, power schemes, display settings, etc -- then upon logoff
the original configuration is restored. Perfect for a shared computer.

The problem is that Syssetup.dll doesn't pay attention to the
"<accountname>.orig" profile. It just says "okay, we have a user
account, so we need to initialize it and set registry pointers to this
account". Effectively, this breaks the link between the roaming
profile functionality and the profile you had previously created with
SCT.

So the moral of the story is that if you want to deploy an image of a
computer that has the MS SCT already installed and configured -- forget
it. You have to deploy the image with the MS SCT installed -- but not
configured. As a post-cloning step, you need to set the configuration
of the SCT on each machine.

Depending on how many accounts you have and how much configuration
tweaking you need to do with the profile restriction tool, this could
be easy or it could be a lot of time. Regardless, it's very
disappointing that these two Microsoft utilities (Sysprep and SCT)
don't get along well with each other. It turned a pretty nifty 100%
ready-to-go clone image into a sort-of-manual clone exercise.

Also, as changes are made over time to the deployed machines, you can
forget about recapturing those changes as a new image for re-cloning.
Once you've turned on the SCT functionality and set up roaming profiles
there seems to be no easy way of going back. You'll have to image a
client with the pre-SCT image, build up your entire set of changes to
the client and then recapture the new image before SCT is turned on.

Of course, there is absolutely NO mention of any of this in any of the
documentation MS provides for SCT or Sysprep.

The fix to Syssetup.dll would be so trivial it is sickening. All they
have to do is add an option to sysprep.inf that says something like
[UserRoaming] and you could list the account names that have a roaming
profile. Then, Syssetup.dll could be modified so when it sees these
accounts it just resets SID and doesn't do the registry initialization.

-Chris
 

Ask a Question

Want to reply to this thread or ask your own question?

You'll need to choose a username for the site, which only take a couple of moments. After that, you can post your question and our members will help you out.

Ask a Question

Top