Cloning a drive to upgrade a hard disc

[Licensed to Quill]

Here is a problem I have always regarded as catastrohic but which in this
case there may be a way around: I dont have a system disc: I only have one
of those lousy recovery discs. But I DO have a CD with a complete i386
directory. Can I use this for the restore you mention?

 

[John John]

You should be able to launch the Recovery Console with that "lousy
recovery disk", did you try it? What does it say when you try? As for
the other cd I don't know, what else is on there? Is it a bootable cd
of sorts? Maybe it's just a Service Pack CD to accompany the Recovery
Disk, not much help for what you need. Surely any pc vendor worth 2
cents would have sent a bootable recovery disk with recovery console
ustility included. If not they need to be tared and feathered!

John

 

[Licensed to Quill]

Yes, I agree with you about "any vendor worth 2 cents would have sent a
bootable recovery disk with recovery console ustility included. If not they
need to be tared and feathered! "

And as a member of an association of journalists, I have often advised
journalists on their private forum never to buy a computer with a recovery
disc principally since I discovered what it was and how dangerous it could
be to use.

I was proposing to boot off some (windows 98?) disc I can find on
bootdisc.com and then use the CD which contains a complete Windows 2000 i386
directory off which (in theory) windows 2000 can be installed. I made it to
run SFC and wonder if it can operate the recovery console?

I also have a newer xp pro install disc which contains a newer i386
directory but I somehow doubt that I could use that?

The actual last resort might be to upgrade the Windows 2000 installation to
XP and see if it rectifies the problems inserted by Roxio or if they are
completely bullet proof as suggested by it somehow stopping the sniffing
process? I have been trying so hard for the last few years not to go over to
the intensely annoying xp but might have to do so now if all else fails
rather than reinstall 2000 from the recovery disc?

 

[John John]

And as a member of an association of journalists, I have often advised
journalists on their private forum never to buy a computer with a recovery
disc principally since I discovered what it was and how dangerous it could
be to use.

In the earlier Windows days ie w95, NT4, & W98 new pcs used to ship with
Windows CDs or diskettes. In order to curb piracy Microsoft changed the
distribution method for OEM. Now mostly all pcs ship with restore
disks, but that doesn't mean that the restore cds need to be completely
crippled and inadequate, the only real difference with these restore cds
is that because of BIOS recognition they can't be used to install
Windows on other computers. It's up to the manufacturer to send decent
restore disks with the computer, I know from experience that Dell for
example has always shipped fully functional restore disks with their
pcs. Of course with XP Product Activation the distribution method may
be changing.

I was proposing to boot off some (windows 98?) disc I can find on
bootdisc.com and then use the CD which contains a complete Windows 2000 i386
directory off which (in theory) windows 2000 can be installed. I made it to
run SFC and wonder if it can operate the recovery console?

No need to do that, plus, if the file system is NTFS the w98 DOS boot
disk won't even know that there is a hard drive or accessible partition
present.

I also have a newer xp pro install disc which contains a newer i386
directory but I somehow doubt that I could use that?

Probably yes, but I'm 100% not sure, you won't be installing anything
just using the Recovery Console tool to manipulate files. I doubt that
the XP Recovery Console is that much different than the W2k one and
can't see why you couldn't use it to move around your W2k installation.
For that matter you can probably use an NT4 one. Some commands are
missing from one to the other but most everything works (I think).

The actual last resort might be to upgrade the Windows 2000 installation to
XP and see if it rectifies the problems inserted by Roxio or if they are
completely bullet proof as suggested by it somehow stopping the sniffing
process? I have been trying so hard for the last few years not to go over to
the intensely annoying xp but might have to do so now if all else fails
rather than reinstall 2000 from the recovery disc?

Very, very, very bad idea! Upgrading Operating systems (instead of
clean installs) is a bad idea for starters and upgrading an Operating
System to try to cure existing problems is an even worse idea! If
anything you would probably end up with MORE problems. It's a no-no in
all cases.

You can install the Windows 2000 recovery console on your hard drive
from the i386 folder and then have a boot option for the RC show when
you boot the pc. Once done you can remove the RC altogether or remove
the path to it only in the boot file.

CD-ROM drive letter:\i386\winnt32.exe /cmdcons That should work from
the Recovery CD or that other CD you have with i386 on it. You might
have to explore the Recovery CD to see where the RC might be hiding.

How To Install the Windows Recovery Console
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;216417

John

 

[Licensed to Quill]

Well my recovery disc isnt usable except to boot into a total windows 2000
installation so I suppose I should try the XP recovery console: All it can
actually do worst case scenario is tell me I am trying to recover the wrong
OS

I am just wondering how big the recovery console is on these discs? I dont
have much space on my drive which is why I was doing a clone job initially.

Oh well, I suppose I will find out the answers to these questions simply by
putting the disc in my drive and running the F:\i386\winnt32.exe /cmdcons
command

 

[John John]

It should work right off the XP cd without needing to install, I know
that the NT/W2k work across versions with some features extra or missing
depending on the OS. Let us know, I'm curious.

John

 

[Licensed to Quill]

It should work right off the XP cd without needing to install, I know

that the NT/W2k work across versions with some features extra or missing
depending on the OS. Let us know, I'm curious.

Well, following the Microsoft instructions completely screwed up my whole
system by corrupting my registry

To be precise, having instlled it, I did mange to get into the recovery
console and that recovery console did manage to somehow update the registry
with the one in the place mentioned in the instructions (the repair
directory) but the system wouldn't boot thereafter. It always just says that
there is aproblem with the SYSTEM file

Getting it to do a boot in verbose mode, it gets as far as the system file,
then moves ot the system.alt file and then stops immediately, citing some
problem with a supposedly corrupted SYSTEM file (I dont beleive it IS
actually corrupted, it is just a renamed version of a file which worked up
until I renamed it according to Microsoft instructions a few minutes before)
which I presume is the actual registry itself. (I am wondering if there is
a step they aren't telling you about which you have to take when exiting
out of the recovery console before you can use that file as a registry such
as changing its file attributes?)

I tried going back to the recovery console and renaming all the files which
ARE there (the one we were trying to cure was a 7.2 megabyte file) back to
their original names (renaming system.old to system and systemalt.old back
to system.alt) but I still get the same error message telling me that the
system file is corrupted. I then tried every combination of the (only two)
system files I have on my system and the OS wont let me use either of them
as a SYSTEM file. Naturally it won't let me use the last known good
installation on an F8 boot either.

 

[John John]

Did you use the file in the repair directory or the one in the regback
folder? The one in the Regback folder was much newer. You had two sets
of backups, (C:\WINNT\repair and C:\WINNT\repair\RegBack) try one then
the other.

Time to use that recovery disc and do an inplace upgrade. You will need
these Iomega SCSI drivers on a diskette and tell Windows at the hardware
detection at begining of the installation that you have a "Mass Storage
Device" to install.

How to Perform an In-Place Upgrade of Windows 2000
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;Q292175

What an In-Place Win2K Upgrade Changes and What It Doesn't
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;Q306952

How to Move a Windows 2000 Installation to Different Hardware
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=KB;EN-US;Q249694&ID=KB;EN-US;Q249694

John

 

[Licensed to Quill]

I hope I have a few options yet before putting that recovery disc in and
erasing all my files: Beware of Toshiba recovery discs!! I suspect I would
prefer to go over to Linux and use this whole (only slightly elderly)
computer as a slave for the drive alone before doing that? I am beginning
to wonder how long one should retain these not brand-new computers after
yesterday when a friend told me he had just bought a new (admittedly
Toshiba) computer with a wide screen and Celeron processor for $499 after
two $200 rebates at CompUSA

I don't know which registry it prompted me to use, which ever one is used
when I followed those instructions??

There is something called a Windows 2000 registry repair tool which installs
off 6 floppies (which seem to have to be installed through XP???) which
might be worth a try, especially as I suspect I haven't actually got
anything wrong with my registry: The boot process which stops stops before
it actually does anything besides check that there is an .alt file there so
I suspect there isn't much actually wrong with the registry which it cant
see

 

[John John]

I see, one of those all or nothing recovery disc, like IBM F11 boxes,
they not only format the install partition but also fdisk the drive and
remove all the partitions! There might yet be hope, but the options are
growing faint... There were 2 possible backups to use, they would have
been copied with:

copy c:\winnt\repair\regback\system c:\winnt\system32\config

or

copy c:\winnt\repair\system c:\winnt\system32\config

(After you issue the copy command you should get a message stating that
1 file was copied).

This is an other install option:
How to perform a parallel installation of Windows 2000 or Windows Server
2003
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;EN-US;266465

John

 

[John John]

Is this what you referred to?
http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/...01-2c68-4de8-9229-ca494362419c&DisplayLang=en

Give it a try.

John

 

[Licensed to Quill]

I suspected it was the process of using that recovery console which was
causing the file to become corrupted but I wasnt sure. It hadnt occured to
me that I was copying the wrong registry until you mentioned it so I will
try it before I try the six disc checkReg file

 

[Licensed to Quill]

Give it a try.

Things are getting very peculiar indeed: Nothing will get this system to see
that there is a registry there. I have now confirmed that the registry is
exactly as it was before I made the changes, even gone as far as to repair
the registry to ensure that what wasn't broken before DEFINITELY isn't
broken now (the repair utility reports that the registry has been repaired)
and still the system wont boot to any registry

I also checked that the registry is one which was working before and that
the backup replacement I tried IS one which was working last June and it is
(the one in the other directory is one which dates from before I got the
computer when the original install was done and is only about two megabytes
as opposed to the recent one which is 7.2 Mb and the June one which is 6.6
Mb. So the problem isn't with the registry, it is with something preventing
the system from seeing it. Whatever I do, as I said, I can check by going
into safe mode boot and it shows verbose mode, goes straight past SYSTEM to
check for a SYSTEM.ALT file and then stops without reading anything from
either, telling me immediately that there is no registry.

Not that I have tried it yet but I am even beginning to doubt that I would
be able to do an in-place upgrade to XP Pro as the install process might not
see this registry.

Any ideas what might be wrong or is there something on the MS Knowledge
base about systems not being able to see their perfectly proper SYSTEM files
which might be relevant to this problem? ( I never managed ot figure out any
way of checking that source and posting to the win2000.registry group doesnt
seem to be eliciting any responses)

 

[John John]

Well, I guess I wasn't clear enough in an earlier post when I said
"...if this doesn't work you are facing a reinstall of some sort." I
should have worded that differently, I apologize, I should have said:
"...this might require a reinstall if things go wrong."

Do you have an Emergency Repair Disk?
To use emergency repair on a system that will not start
http://www.microsoft.com/windows200...windows2000/en/advanced/help/recovery_erd.htm

What is exact error message that you get? Post it here.

What are the specs on the machine and about how much free space do you
have on the hard drive? What is that XP disc that you have? Did you
install it and activate it elsewhere? Hardware and space permitting you
can use it to salvage your files. What is the file system on the
machine FAT32 or NTFS? Do you have access to a REAL Windows 2000
install disc? That would be the best way out of this quagmire that I
and Roxio led you into. If the drive is FAT32, Windows 98 (or even DOS)
can be used to salvage your files. If your files are small DOS and an
NTFS DOS reader can be used to salvage them. The drive is slavable to
another W2K or XP machine but you will need an adaptor cable.

Until one of your last posts I was unaware that this was a laptop,
makes a BIG difference when trying to help, laptops are particularly
finicky and without a doubt my suggestion would have been to consult
Toshiba website for help. What is the model number of the laptop,
perhaps Toshiba can still be of help.

I think this is almost to the point of going into file salvage mode and
reset the laptop to factory conditions. On the bright side you will
have a brand new installation and certainly a registry that is nowheres
near to 58MB in size. And Roxio will be eradicated completely... and I
will fade in your memory as one of these bad reoccurring nightmares.

John

 

[lic ensed to quill]

Well, I guess I wasn't clear enough in an earlier post when I said
"...if this doesn't work you are facing a reinstall of some sort." I
should have worded that differently, I apologize, I should have said:
"...this might require a reinstall if things go wrong."

Do you have an Emergency Repair Disk?
To use emergency repair on a system that will not start
http://www.microsoft.com/windows200...windows2000/en/advanced/help/recovery_erd.htm

What is exact error message that you get? Post it here.

Well things look catastrophic but I dont think they are all that disastrous
in reality: THere is simply (if that if the word) something preventing my
computer from seeing the registry on boot. I have followed the Microsoft
instructions on how to change a registry and it was something in that
procedure whcih caused this problem. After I had executed the commands the
system stopped being able to see its system file. Either system file. No
amount of changing it or trying alternatives (such a 'last knows working
configurtation' which I presume what system.alt is) would help. although I
havent got an emergency repair disc, wouldnt it be easier to try to identify
what is wrong with the system which is preventing it from seeing the
registty?

(I can in fact put a working drive in the Toshiba and create another vanilla
installation if necessary and then create an emergency repair disc if
necessary IF that procedure is open to me with this lousy recovery dsic
which they gave me? I seem to remember when I tried it that during the
create process they ask you for your windows 2000 install disc and I dont
have one so I couldnt create it last time I tried but I could try again to
confirm that this was the problem with this procedure: I might be
remembering the wrong procedure?)

What are the specs on the machine and about how much free space do you
have on the hard drive?

The Toshiba sis a 650 MHz 256 Meg Pwntium 111 and space on the hard drive IS
a bit of a problem: I only have about 115 meg of space on a HDD of 12 gig.
I can easily free up some of the space by deleting that 58 megabyte file
which I now discover ISNT a backup of the registry which I cant see how I
could need if the problem is simply one of the boot proccess not seeing the
registry.

What is that XP disc that you have? Did you

install it and activate it elsewhere? Yes, it is a spare XP Pro install

disc which I had used and activated on another computer.

Hardware and space permitting you

can use it to salvage your files. What is the file system on the
machine FAT32 or NTFS? Do you have access to a REAL Windows 2000
install disc?

No
That would be the best way out of this quagmire that I

and Roxio led you into. If the drive is FAT32, Windows 98 (or even DOS)
can be used to salvage your files. If your files are small DOS and an
NTFS DOS reader can be used to salvage them. The drive is slavable to
another W2K or XP machine but you will need an adaptor cable.

That isnt a real problem as I have a desktop machine which I can put this
notebook drive into to salvage the fiels but I am hoping that I can get this
computer to see its registry somehow as the move process would be
exceptionally laborious, what as I use Microsoft Outlook for all my PIM and
mail: It has a few disastrous faults: Firstly it makes .pst files which are
between 300 Mgagabytes and 500 megabytes in sixe which include all data ever
created by outlook and all email and all data you could in thoery put in
such PIM. Secondly it doesn't crete .iaf files any more so with a dozen
mailboxes, you have to keep careful track of user IDs and passwords now,
which is a bit difficult without access to the Outlook because what you are
doing is to move files on another computer

What is the model number of the laptop,

perhaps Toshiba can still be of help. I am at the moment in New York and

Toshiba have discontinued all their american support: When you call them
they try to demoralise you into going away: First they try to get all your
personal information out of you v e r y s l o lw l y indeed, repeating every
thing a few times even slower. Then an Indian voce pretends to listen very
carefully to the problem witout taking any of it in. He then (after trying
to wriggle our of helping if you have bought your Toshiba computer with a
global warranty anywhere out of the US, pretends that he is "going to
double check that" and then after an interval of a timed 35 seconds tries to
get you to format your hard drive and use the recovery disc without
bothering to check if you even have a bcakup: Toshiba appparently takes
great joy in THEN finding out that their users have destroyed al their data
and configurations AFTER they have destroyed everything.

I was sorta hoping I could avoid that curious ritual which seems to
consituute TOshiba AMerica's exit from the consumer computer makret by
identifying what is preventing my computer from seeing its registry which is
there and in proper form and (except for the Roxio and SCSI bit) working.

 

[Licensed to Quill]

John

It is beginning to dawn on me what has happened and I suspect it might be
nothing to do with you whatsoever

Suddenly my hard drive is not responding at all. I am wondering if all these
prolbems are related to the drive not reading properly?

Does anyone know who makes Toshiba drives or who makes a test utility? What
is suspicious is that the drive doesn't even read any identification on
boot.

I did manage to get it to read this morning so I suspect something may
revive it or revive it so long as to get most of the data off it and copy it
onto another drive in DOS but I am wondering what I can do now short of
sending it to one of those places in Houston that presumes you are a huge
corporation and charges you by the thousands or tens of thousands to take it
apart and get data off it

I have meanwhile put it in the freezer pending finding a Toshiba HDD testing
utility. Seagate once told me to slam it onto a hard surface to try to free
up sticking arms or cause to rotate stuck discs: But if something wont read
even the drive identification, I am wondering if EITHER this is something
very easy as it was working this morning OR this is slightly beyond the end
of the road?

Anyone got any other ideas?

 

[Bob I]

John

Does anyone know who makes Toshiba drives or who makes a test utility? What
is suspicious is that the drive doesn't even read any identification on
boot.

Maybe Toshiba?

 

[John John]

Try booting with a DOS disk and NTFS reader and see if you can read it,
presuming that the drive is NTFS, if it's fat32 dos should read it. As
far as slaming it on a hard surface that's probably not something I
would try, at least not the first thing I would try... Or slave it into
another machine.

John

 

[Licensed to Quill]

It says TOSHIBA on it but I don't believe that they still support drives:
Maybe, but they deny vehemently that they make these things and if you try
to ask them, they just ask you your computer's serial number and jump at the
opportunity to get rid of you if you go down one of their wild goose chases
and tell them.

 

[Bob I]

http://www.toshiba-europe.com/storage/index.asp?nav=RSC&page=RSC&frame=content