Chipsets compatible with Core 2 Duos?

Y

Yousuf Khan

I was out trying to price some components for an upgrade of my desktop
system (Athlon XP 1900+ system with AGP) to something with a PCIe
connector. Of course that now means I'll have to swap out the processor,
RAM and motherboard too. I am open to an Intel Core 2 Duo, it would
probably be my first Intel system in a decade. I found the choice is not
that easy. The CPU choice is dead simple: only the 2MB C2D E6300 or
E6400 are really available now, and nothing else. But then if you have
to choose a motherboard, you are screwed. Not all Socket 775
motherboards will work with C2D. And you can't even go on chipset model
numbers to figure it out: some revisions of 975, 965, and even 945
chipsets will work with it, while others won't. Even some motherboards
have revisions that will or won't work, and they don't even bother to
change the model naming on it! It's an absolute mess! Is there a list of
compatible motherboards (and revisions) that will work with C2D?

You don't have this problem with AMD, you can mate any chipset to any
CPU, just so long as the motherboard socket is the right one.

I'm also looking for a motherboard with the 2 traditional PATA channels,
some of the recent Intel chipsets are removing all PATA support in
favour of SATA only. I will go with SATA eventually, but in the meantime
I still need full PATA support.

Yousuf Khan
 
C

Carlo Razzeto

Yousuf Khan said:
I was out trying to price some components for an upgrade of my desktop
system (Athlon XP 1900+ system with AGP) to something with a PCIe
connector. Of course that now means I'll have to swap out the processor,
RAM and motherboard too. I am open to an Intel Core 2 Duo, it would
probably be my first Intel system in a decade. I found the choice is not
that easy. The CPU choice is dead simple: only the 2MB C2D E6300 or E6400
are really available now, and nothing else. But then if you have to choose
a motherboard, you are screwed. Not all Socket 775 motherboards will work
with C2D. And you can't even go on chipset model numbers to figure it out:
some revisions of 975, 965, and even 945 chipsets will work with it, while
others won't. Even some motherboards have revisions that will or won't
work, and they don't even bother to change the model naming on it! It's an
absolute mess! Is there a list of compatible motherboards (and revisions)
that will work with C2D?

You don't have this problem with AMD, you can mate any chipset to any CPU,
just so long as the motherboard socket is the right one.

I'm also looking for a motherboard with the 2 traditional PATA channels,
some of the recent Intel chipsets are removing all PATA support in favour
of SATA only. I will go with SATA eventually, but in the meantime I still
need full PATA support.

Yousuf Khan
Click to expand...

Wow, sounds like buying for Intel Core 2 Duo is somewhat of a pain ATM. But
I"m sure once they are out there for a bit longer it'll be easier.. I had
heard at one point that Intel's (only real choice unless you're willing to
deal with VIA) chipsets would only support 1 PATA connector for this CPU,
I'm not sure that this is universally true or not ATM, but you might be out
of luck as far as that goes. Here are some motherboard reviews I found on
Anandtech though, hopefully they'll help you out...

http://www.anandtech.com/mb/showdoc.aspx?i=2797 (feeding the beast)
http://www.anandtech.com/mb/showdoc.aspx?i=2822 (Asus P5B)
http://www.anandtech.com/mb/showdoc.aspx?i=2789 (Abit AB9 Pro)

That's about all I could find, I know how you feel about Intel/AMD. I've
been using AMD products for the past 8 years my self quiet happily, but this
time around it looks like Intel has a real winner for the time being.

Carlo
 
Y

Yousuf Khan

Carlo said:
Wow, sounds like buying for Intel Core 2 Duo is somewhat of a pain ATM. But
I"m sure once they are out there for a bit longer it'll be easier.. I had
heard at one point that Intel's (only real choice unless you're willing to
deal with VIA) chipsets would only support 1 PATA connector for this CPU,
I'm not sure that this is universally true or not ATM, but you might be out
of luck as far as that goes. Here are some motherboard reviews I found on
Anandtech though, hopefully they'll help you out...
Click to expand...

The reason they backported C2D support into the 945 chipset seems to be
because it has full PATA support. Neither the 965 and 975 have any. In
fact for PATA support, mobo mfgs are having to install an external chip
to give that one channel of support! The disadvantage of 945 chipset is
that it only goes upto DDR2-667 support, rather than DDR2-800.
That's about all I could find, I know how you feel about Intel/AMD. I've
been using AMD products for the past 8 years my self quiet happily, but this
time around it looks like Intel has a real winner for the time being.
Click to expand...

Except now it seems like AMD has the more robust platform. The choice
now is either you buy it for the CPU alone, or you buy it for the whole
platform.

Yousuf Khan
 
G

George Macdonald

I was out trying to price some components for an upgrade of my desktop
system (Athlon XP 1900+ system with AGP) to something with a PCIe
connector. Of course that now means I'll have to swap out the processor,
RAM and motherboard too.
Click to expand...

Check out the P/S too - most recent systems will not work with a P/S from
the Athlon XP era. You need ~20A on +12V and more for a high powered video
system... and with the 24-pin dual +12V, you don't want tight limiting on
the current to either side.
I am open to an Intel Core 2 Duo, it would
probably be my first Intel system in a decade. I found the choice is not
that easy. The CPU choice is dead simple: only the 2MB C2D E6300 or
E6400 are really available now, and nothing else.
Click to expand...

NewEgg has E6600 & E6700 in stock.

BTW there are umm, stories floating around that Dell has sucked the
Athlon64 channel drier than a stick... and that distributors & smaller OEMs
are very pissed about this. Could be FUD I suppose but we'll see how
things play out.
But then if you have
to choose a motherboard, you are screwed. Not all Socket 775
motherboards will work with C2D. And you can't even go on chipset model
numbers to figure it out: some revisions of 975, 965, and even 945
chipsets will work with it, while others won't. Even some motherboards
have revisions that will or won't work, and they don't even bother to
change the model naming on it! It's an absolute mess! Is there a list of
compatible motherboards (and revisions) that will work with C2D?
Click to expand...

I wouldn't go so far as to say you're "screwed"... just have to be careful.
Again, NewEgg lists mbrds by Intel CPU category.
You don't have this problem with AMD, you can mate any chipset to any
CPU, just so long as the motherboard socket is the right one.
Click to expand...

Hmmm, there are a few AMD64 mbrds out there which are real turkeys -
apparently MSI's entire AM2 K9N series are subject to problems and need a
capacitor changed. AM2, in general, has had some new problems to do with
AMD Away: people think they're systems are shutting down spontaneously but
they're actually going into "AMD Away" mode umm, spontaneously... and they
won't come out without a CMOS clear. Apparently this one is fixable by
BIOS update but it's taken a bit of time.

Another problem with AM2, is getting a mbrd/memory combo to run at
PC2-6400: most DIMMs are specing 2.0V or more and there are a bunch of
mbrds out there which are limited to 1.9(5)V.
I'm also looking for a motherboard with the 2 traditional PATA channels,
some of the recent Intel chipsets are removing all PATA support in
favour of SATA only. I will go with SATA eventually, but in the meantime
I still need full PATA support.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I think the chipset mfrs jumped the gun on this one - most people
want two DVD drives (ROM & R/RW) and on separate IDE channels. The SATA
DVD drives are not coming fast enough and have also had chipset
compatibilty problems. nVidia's nForce 500 series for AM2 has only one
PATA channel, which I guess I could live with but the nForce 500 series for
Intel CPUs, which are compatible with C2D, has two PATA channels - see
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16813131032. Of course
there's always the SATA-PATA converters which seem to work OK with many
drives, even some DVDs.
 
N

nobody

The reason they backported C2D support into the 945 chipset seems to be
because it has full PATA support. Neither the 965 and 975 have any. In
fact for PATA support, mobo mfgs are having to install an external chip
to give that one channel of support! The disadvantage of 945 chipset is
that it only goes upto DDR2-667 support, rather than DDR2-800.


Except now it seems like AMD has the more robust platform. The choice
now is either you buy it for the CPU alone, or you buy it for the whole
platform.

Yousuf Khan
Click to expand...

In other words, you've got screwed. Getting C2D + DDR2-800 + 2xPATA
in one reasonably priced package looks like something hardly possible.
Just as some 10 years ago I wanted to buy a reasonably priced 4-door
compact car with manual transmission and rear wheel drive - the choice
was between BMW and Mercedes - not exactly "reasonably priced" from my
then-budget POV, so I had to go with FWD. Take another look at socket
AM2 - it's not _that_ much behind Intel on pure performance, about the
same on Price/Performance, and if you're lucky you'll be able to get
K8L as a drop-in upgrade. Though you might get screwed on this one -
my Socket940 board doesn't accept anything better than 130nm chips so
no dual core upgrade as I hoped ;-(

Good luck

NNN
 
G

General Schvantzkoph

I was out trying to price some components for an upgrade of my desktop
system (Athlon XP 1900+ system with AGP) to something with a PCIe
connector. Of course that now means I'll have to swap out the processor,
RAM and motherboard too. I am open to an Intel Core 2 Duo, it would
probably be my first Intel system in a decade. I found the choice is not
that easy. The CPU choice is dead simple: only the 2MB C2D E6300 or
E6400 are really available now, and nothing else. But then if you have
to choose a motherboard, you are screwed. Not all Socket 775
motherboards will work with C2D. And you can't even go on chipset model
numbers to figure it out: some revisions of 975, 965, and even 945
chipsets will work with it, while others won't. Even some motherboards
have revisions that will or won't work, and they don't even bother to
change the model naming on it! It's an absolute mess! Is there a list of
compatible motherboards (and revisions) that will work with C2D?

You don't have this problem with AMD, you can mate any chipset to any
CPU, just so long as the motherboard socket is the right one.

I'm also looking for a motherboard with the 2 traditional PATA channels,
some of the recent Intel chipsets are removing all PATA support in
favour of SATA only. I will go with SATA eventually, but in the meantime
I still need full PATA support.

Yousuf Khan
Click to expand...

My suggestion is to get a tested combo, that way it's the responsibility
of the vendor to supply you with the correct revision of the motherboard.
 
C

Carlo Razzeto

[email protected] said:
In other words, you've got screwed. Getting C2D + DDR2-800 + 2xPATA
in one reasonably priced package looks like something hardly possible.
Just as some 10 years ago I wanted to buy a reasonably priced 4-door
compact car with manual transmission and rear wheel drive - the choice
was between BMW and Mercedes - not exactly "reasonably priced" from my
then-budget POV, so I had to go with FWD. Take another look at socket
AM2 - it's not _that_ much behind Intel on pure performance, about the
same on Price/Performance, and if you're lucky you'll be able to get
K8L as a drop-in upgrade. Though you might get screwed on this one -
my Socket940 board doesn't accept anything better than 130nm chips so
no dual core upgrade as I hoped ;-(

Good luck

NNN
Click to expand...

AMD has already stated that his will work, so he should be OK there. But the
real reason to go with K8L would be for the whole "accelerator" thing,
particularly now that they all but own ATI.

Carlo
 
N

nobody

AMD has already stated that his will work, so he should be OK there. But the
real reason to go with K8L would be for the whole "accelerator" thing,
particularly now that they all but own ATI.

Carlo
Click to expand...
Not necessarily. Depends on motherboard implementation. It turned out
that 90nm chips require higher current than 130nm. Therefore, even
though it's the same socket 940, and the voltages are there, and the
wattage stays the same, the voltage regulators could under certain
condition crap out because they can't handle the amps. So the board
maker (MSI) decided not to add 90nm support to the BIOS, let alone
dual core ;-(
AMD also stated they see no reason why dual core socket 939/940 chips
wouldn't work in previous generation boards. Turned out the reasons
could pop up. Until I see the new BIOS supporting K8L I would not bet
that any particular board would ever support them. Having said that,
I'd still say chances are very good.

NNN
 
Y

Yousuf Khan

General said:
My suggestion is to get a tested combo, that way it's the responsibility
of the vendor to supply you with the correct revision of the motherboard.
Click to expand...

Well, that is what I'd do, but often it's a matter of features that
you're looking for at a certain price. So for example, you might find a
cheap enough board, but then you'd find it's only for Pentium 4, and not
Core 2. Then you may find that you have to go with a more expensive
motherboard for the features you want.

Yousuf Khan
 
C

Carlo Razzeto

[email protected] said:
Not necessarily. Depends on motherboard implementation. It turned out
that 90nm chips require higher current than 130nm. Therefore, even
though it's the same socket 940, and the voltages are there, and the
wattage stays the same, the voltage regulators could under certain
condition crap out because they can't handle the amps. So the board
maker (MSI) decided not to add 90nm support to the BIOS, let alone
dual core ;-(
AMD also stated they see no reason why dual core socket 939/940 chips
wouldn't work in previous generation boards. Turned out the reasons
could pop up. Until I see the new BIOS supporting K8L I would not bet
that any particular board would ever support them. Having said that,
I'd still say chances are very good.

NNN
Click to expand...

Odd that you'd have those kinds of issues from MSI, usually they're pretty
good. I'd expect those kinds of issues with PC-Chips and other lower quality
manufacturers. I've usually never had any real issues with Asus. I guess in
the end though, at this point you can't really *lose* going with either AMD
or Intel right now... I'd be tempted with Intel at this point because Core 2
is the first desent chip they've made in a long time, though I'd be more
comfertable with AMD since that's what I've used for 8 years with *no* real
issues.

Carlo
 
G

Gojira

Yousuf Khan said:
The reason they backported C2D support into the 945 chipset seems to be
because it has full PATA support. Neither the 965 and 975 have any. In
fact for PATA support, mobo mfgs are having to install an external chip
to give that one channel of support! The disadvantage of 945 chipset is
that it only goes upto DDR2-667 support, rather than DDR2-800.


Except now it seems like AMD has the more robust platform. The choice
now is either you buy it for the CPU alone, or you buy it for the whole
platform.

Yousuf Khan
Click to expand...

It's still very early,the Nforce 570/590 boards will be coming out
soon,reportedly they are much better than the 945/965/975 platforms.
 
Y

Yousuf Khan

In other words, you've got screwed. Getting C2D + DDR2-800 + 2xPATA
in one reasonably priced package looks like something hardly possible.
Just as some 10 years ago I wanted to buy a reasonably priced 4-door
compact car with manual transmission and rear wheel drive - the choice
was between BMW and Mercedes - not exactly "reasonably priced" from my
then-budget POV, so I had to go with FWD. Take another look at socket
AM2 - it's not _that_ much behind Intel on pure performance, about the
same on Price/Performance, and if you're lucky you'll be able to get
K8L as a drop-in upgrade. Though you might get screwed on this one -
my Socket940 board doesn't accept anything better than 130nm chips so
no dual core upgrade as I hoped ;-(
Click to expand...

And it's hard to tell if future Conroes will be compatible with current
Conroe motherboards. We've seen many times in the past that despite the
fact that Intel might keep the socket format the same, there's things
like voltages and other issues that keep them from being truly
compatible down the road.

Yousuf Khan
 
G

George Macdonald

Odd that you'd have those kinds of issues from MSI, usually they're pretty
good. I'd expect those kinds of issues with PC-Chips and other lower quality
manufacturers. I've usually never had any real issues with Asus. I guess in
the end though, at this point you can't really *lose* going with either AMD
or Intel right now... I'd be tempted with Intel at this point because Core 2
is the first desent chip they've made in a long time, though I'd be more
comfertable with AMD since that's what I've used for 8 years with *no* real
issues.
Click to expand...

MSI seemed to drop the ball with s940 - the first Master boards were crap
and I get the impression, not correctable by BIOS updates so they seemed to
hope nobody would notice and dropped support.

I've done quite a few MSI systems with nForce2, 3 & 4 but recently I
switched back to Asus to get a s939 with ECC support... one of the
annoyances about MSI's desktop boards is lack of ECC. Given the screw-up
with MSI's AM2 boards -- see my other post -- I'm thinking they may have
lost their way -- maybe some key guy(s) -- so I'm thinking I'll stick with
Asus again in future.
 
Y

Yousuf Khan

George said:
I've done quite a few MSI systems with nForce2, 3 & 4 but recently I
switched back to Asus to get a s939 with ECC support... one of the
annoyances about MSI's desktop boards is lack of ECC. Given the screw-up
with MSI's AM2 boards -- see my other post -- I'm thinking they may have
lost their way -- maybe some key guy(s) -- so I'm thinking I'll stick with
Asus again in future.
Click to expand...

I consider all motherboards to be crap and work my way up from there.
I've had many, many Asus boards die on me before. Yet, a cheap-as-dirt
ECS board with an SIS chipset has been my most reliable motherboard
ever!

Yousuf Khan
 
D

dhs

one of the annoyances about MSI's desktop boards is lack of ECC.
Click to expand...
Unfortunately true for many manufacturers - e.g. the only uATX
board that supports ECC is the Asus 6150 one. You'd think
that with ECC supported by the processor that the boards
would support it too. Nope. Even the new DFI 6150 uATX
board doesn't support ECC.
Given the screw-up
with MSI's AM2 boards -- see my other post -- I'm thinking they may have
lost their way -- maybe some key guy(s) -- so I'm thinking I'll stick with
Asus again in future.
Click to expand...

If you want ECC and, in my case (pun not intended) uATX,
you don't have much of a choice.

Doug
 
G

General Schvantzkoph

The 590 is the one I'm waiting for,don't like that passive heatsink chipset
cooler on the 570,the heatpipes work much better.
Click to expand...

Very interesting, I think I'll wait another month or two before I buy my
Conroe system.
 
W

willbill

Yousuf said:
I was out trying to price some components for an upgrade of my desktop
system (Athlon XP 1900+ system with AGP) to something with a PCIe
connector. Of course that now means I'll have to swap out the processor,
RAM and motherboard too.
Click to expand...


if you do that, you might want to consider
running a 150GB raptor (SATA) as your boot drive

I am open to an Intel Core 2 Duo, it would
probably be my first Intel system in a decade.
Click to expand...


it's still pretty early days to be doing that

from what i've seen, AMD is still price competitive,
and you're less likely to run into "gotcha's" with
an AMD system

look at the list of issues that have been posted
in this thread (about AMD systems)

the reason you don't (yet) see any on the new C2D
systems, is that they are so new

i mean, you don't really think that there
I found the choice is not
that easy. The CPU choice is dead simple: only the 2MB C2D E6300 or
E6400 are really available now, and nothing else. But then if you have
to choose a motherboard, you are screwed. Not all Socket 775
motherboards will work with C2D. And you can't even go on chipset model
numbers to figure it out: some revisions of 975, 965, and even 945
chipsets will work with it, while others won't. Even some motherboards
have revisions that will or won't work, and they don't even bother to
change the model naming on it! It's an absolute mess! Is there a list of
compatible motherboards (and revisions) that will work with C2D?

You don't have this problem with AMD, you can mate any chipset to any
CPU, just so long as the motherboard socket is the right one.

I'm also looking for a motherboard with the 2 traditional PATA channels,
some of the recent Intel chipsets are removing all PATA support in
favour of SATA only. I will go with SATA eventually, but in the meantime
I still need full PATA support.
Click to expand...

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^


why get in such a knot over this?

depending on which mobo you buy, all it
takes is a cheap ISA adapter, that will
give you the PATA connector(s) you want

fwiw, the one advantage (to me) that PATA
drives still have is that their connectors
are more robutst than SATA

which is important when one (me) temporarily
plugs in bare drives for clone backups
(of the boot drive)

bill
 
G

George Macdonald

Unfortunately true for many manufacturers - e.g. the only uATX
board that supports ECC is the Asus 6150 one. You'd think
that with ECC supported by the processor that the boards
would support it too. Nope. Even the new DFI 6150 uATX
board doesn't support ECC.
Click to expand...

I have never even considered an ABit board but someone mentioned here that
they do some ECC A64 boards too.
If you want ECC and, in my case (pun not intended) uATX,
you don't have much of a choice.
Click to expand...

The Asus 6150 is obviously the one to get but watch out for DDR2 - you'll
have trouble getting PC2-6400 to work with it.
 

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