Canon IP4000 - overpriced?

[Ivor Floppy]

Don't you thing that Epson should put a notice both in the manual (post
sale info) and on the box (pre sales info) that the printer is to be run
periodically (state how often and how) and not be left unused for X period
of time. Many people buy these printers and unknowingly have problems.

They do - sort off. They state that the Ultrachrome etc. ink carts should be
used within 6 months of fitting. Most people who would be able to justify
the expense of an R800 (etc.) would be using it on a semi-regular basis;
otherwise its a waste of money.

 

[measekite]

But your not prepared to name (and shame) this mythical purchasing manager?
I thought you were against all 3rd party ink suppliers - especially those
who don't name their BRAND of ink and sell Chinese no-name ink?

I research things. He gave me all of this information after I told him
I do not buy UNBRANDED ink. I suggested he reinvestigate Sensinent.

Their 'own' being make in China? Well, considering that EPSON ink is nearly
10x the price of (some) 3rd party ink - I would be rather pissed off if it
wasn't higher quality. But, unless your planning on doing exhibition quality
prints, most people find that 3rd party inks are more than good enough
quality.





Nothing new there - even Epson admit that pigment inks are more liable to
clog. That's why they tell you to shake the ink carts before fitting and use
the ink within 6 months.




Can he prove it though? Can he also prove that the running costs are higher
(taking ink and head replacement into consideration) with the Epson vs.
Canon?

The more I read of your posts measekite, the more I'm beginning to think
your not really happy with your Canon printer and your constantly trying to
justify the decision of buying it by putting other manufacturers down.
Can't you accept that people use other makes of printers and are happy with
them?

People buy Hundais and Kias also.

 

[Ivor Floppy]

I research things. He gave me all of this information after I told him I
do not buy UNBRANDED ink. I suggested he reinvestigate Sensinent.


People buy Hundais and Kias also.

So?

 

[measekite]

I don't want to sound like an apologist for Epson, because, as you
know, I can be quite critical of them.

I am not sure which paper you used with your R800 which didn't work
correctly. As you know, Epson makes three basic ink sets, Durabrite
pigment inks, Ultrachrome Pigment inks, and then a series of dye inks.
Epson produces media for all of them and they are not all
interchangeable with all the ink types. Epson has a pdf document
which has a table showing the different printer models and which of
their papers can be used with each of them. I think it is on their US
web site.

As I understand it, Some Canon printers have a black pigment colorant
ink, plus a full dye set including black. I am not sure what
determines which black is used.

It is the choice of paper on the driver menu. Plain paper selects
pigmented black. Photo paper and other non Plain paper selects the dye
black.

 

[pete]

Please, if you really have to feed the troll, don't quote all his garbage.
He/she/it is most people's killfile as no one want to read his/her/its crap.

 

[Burt]

But with most of them your printhead gets constipated.

Cute one-liner, but the fact is that there are good quality third party inks
out there. Either ask around for personal recommendations or look through
this NG for information about vendors and their products.

 

[measekite]

Cute one-liner, but the fact is that there are good quality third party inks
out there. Either ask around for personal recommendations or look through
this NG for information about vendors and their products.

Card carrying members of the AfterMarket club do attest to a few
Labels. But all of them combined may be speaking about one or two
mfg/formulators because the vendors do not want to tell the person what
they are buying.

 

[Arthur Entlich]

I think all inkjet printer companies should inform the owners that long
periods without use can lead to head clogs. I don't expect any of them
will.

Art

 

[measekite]

I think all inkjet printer companies should inform the owners that
long periods without use can lead to head clogs. I don't expect any
of them will.

Art

It seems that the HP models that have an integrated head and cart prove
to be the exception. I left mine unused for 3 to 5 months and it
printed again without a problem.

 

[Burt]

(snip)

Card carrying members of the AfterMarket club do attest to a few Labels.
But all of them combined may be speaking about one or two mfg/formulators
because the vendors do not want to tell the person what they are buying.

Senator McCarthy, many years ago, used the phrase "card carrying members" to
smear people he had accused of being Communists. Measekite uses similar
tactics to smear vendors and demean the people who deal with them. When
logic fails, use invective and innuendo. Fortunately this is an open forum
and people can respond with their own valid experiences as opposed to his
untested opinions.

 

[measekite]

(snip)




Senator McCarthy, many years ago, used the phrase "card carrying members" to
smear people he had accused of being Communists. Measekite uses similar
tactics to smear vendors and demean the people who deal with them. When
logic fails, use invective and innuendo. Fortunately this is an open forum
and people can respond with their own valid experiences as opposed to his
untested opinions.

You can call me Senator Measekite ;-)

 

[Frank]

(snip)




Senator McCarthy, many years ago, used the phrase "card carrying members" to
smear people he had accused of being Communists. Measekite uses similar
tactics to smear vendors and demean the people who deal with them. When
logic fails, use invective and innuendo. Fortunately this is an open forum
and people can respond with their own valid experiences as opposed to his
untested opinions.

hehehehe...I like that comparison Burt. Right on the money for those of
us in the know but for the intended...well as we all know...he don't
know.
Frank

 

[Arthur Entlich]

Even that might have been good fortune. Some people do report HP heads
can clog. May depend upon which ink set is involved.

Art

 

[measekite]

Even that might have been good fortune. Some people do report HP
heads can clog. May depend upon which ink set is involved.

Art

If an HP (with attached head) does clog here is the unclog manual:

1. Trot down to Staples, Office Depot, Costco or where ever
2. Get a new cartridge
3. Install the cartridge
4. Do a print test
5. Print

Now with Epson and Canon I think you have a few more steps. And they
may not work.

 

[Ivor Floppy]

If an HP (with attached head) does clog here is the unclog manual:

1. Trot down to Staples, Office Depot, Costco or where ever
2. Get a new cartridge
3. Install the cartridge
4. Do a print test
5. Print

Now with Epson and Canon I think you have a few more steps. And they may
not work.

Epsons would be something like

1. Trot down to Staples, Office Depot, Costco or where ever
2. Get a new cartridge
3. Install the cartridge
4. Do a print test
5. Realise its no better than before
6. Apply a few drops of head cleaning fluid to the service station pad.
7. Wait a few hours
8. Do a print test
9. Print.


With Canon its something like:

1. Trot down to Staples, Office Depot, Costco or where ever
2. Get a new cartridge
3. Install the cartridge
4. Do a print test
5. Realise its no better than before
6. Spend the next week searching the WWW for a sensible price for a new
printhead.
7. Decide the cost of a new printhead is too high
8. Buy a new printer
9. Repeat 1-8 every couple of years, or maybe less if your unlucky.

 

[measekite]

Epsons would be something like

1. Trot down to Staples, Office Depot, Costco or where ever
2. Get a new cartridge
3. Install the cartridge
4. Do a print test
5. Realise its no better than before
6. Apply a few drops of head cleaning fluid to the service station pad.
7. Wait a few hours
8. Do a print test
9. Print.

And then do again for a few months.
Realize it is no better
Go Buy a Canon

With Canon its something like:

1. Trot down to Staples, Office Depot, Costco or where ever
2. Get a new cartridge
3. Install the cartridge
4. Do a print test
snip ...

You are done.

 

[Burt]

And then do again for a few months.
Realize it is no better
Go Buy a Canon

You are done.

Unless you have a head clog, in which case you can use Neil Slade's advice
or go on the Nifty-stuff forum and learn how to clear most clogs. Yes,
Measekite, Canon printers are inkjets, and their print heads clog too, even
if you use only OEM inks. As you like to quote, if it looks like an inkjet
printer, etc. Inkjet printer heads can clog with infrequent use. They can
also clog after lots of use which eventually leaves ink residue on the
bottom of the print head and sometimes in the jets themselves. Even an
IP4000. I know, you have had yours 9 months, used only OEM inks, and
haven't had a problem yet. My I960 hasn't had any problems either after
nearly a year of use, and you know that I use non-OEM inks exclusively in
it.

 

[measekite]

Unless you have a head clog, in which case you can use Neil Slade's advice
or go on the Nifty-stuff forum and learn how to clear most clogs. Yes,
Measekite, Canon printers are inkjets, and their print heads clog too, even
if you use only OEM inks.

But less frequently

 

[pete]

Epsons would be something like

1. Trot down to Staples, Office Depot, Costco or where ever
2. Get a new cartridge
3. Install the cartridge
4. Do a print test
5. Realise its no better than before
6. Apply a few drops of head cleaning fluid to the service station pad.
7. Wait a few hours
8. Do a print test
9. Print.


With Canon its something like:

1. Trot down to Staples, Office Depot, Costco or where ever
2. Get a new cartridge
3. Install the cartridge
4. Do a print test
5. Realise its no better than before
6. Spend the next week searching the WWW for a sensible price for a new
printhead.
7. Decide the cost of a new printhead is too high
8. Buy a new printer
9. Repeat 1-8 every couple of years, or maybe less if your unlucky.

At work, over the past few years, we have had -and still have- several Epson
and several Canon.
Very happy with them, no crap as described above.

We had a Lexmark once, garbage which was thrown in a skip a few days later.

 

[Colon Terminus]

Go with the Epson R200. It is an excellent printer for the price. You'll
notice hardly any difference in the quality of prints from any of the
printers mentioned. The differences are mostly technical and hardly visible.
Technically either of the other two mentioned printers is "better".
Actually, you need a practiced eye and a magnifying glass to tell the
difference.

Among the choices you listed the R200 is, without doubt, the best bang for
your buck.

I have a number of different printers, among them is an HP 5550, an Epson
R200. a Canon IP5000. an HP 4650 and an HP 9000dtn. I find that I use the
5550 for more than 80% of my print jobs. 80% being on a per job basis rather
than on a per page basis. Obviously I'll use the 9000 for jobs that consist
of ~50 pages or so.

The cost of living in Old Blighty continues to be quite high, doesn't it?
Here in the Colonies, all those printers cost considerably less than they do
in the Empire.