Can Shrink and Grow = yes

G

Guest

Hi -
I have a report with about 12 text boxes lined one right after the other -
all with the shrink and grow properties = yes. The problem lies that for a
report that is smaller than the rest, it put a page break in earlier than it
should. In other words, there's a lot of blank space at the bottom of the
first page.

What I noticed is that this page break is occuring around the 8.5" spot on
the detail section. Anything I am doing wrong, and any suggestions?
Thanks,
Varvara
 
M

Marshall Barton

guat said:
I have a report with about 12 text boxes lined one right after the other -
all with the shrink and grow properties = yes. The problem lies that for a
report that is smaller than the rest, it put a page break in earlier than it
should. In other words, there's a lot of blank space at the bottom of the
first page.

What I noticed is that this page break is occuring around the 8.5" spot on
the detail section. Anything I am doing wrong, and any suggestions?


When you set the text box's CanShrink property, did you
remember to set the section's CanShrink property too?
 
G

Guest

Marshall,
Thank you for your response. Yes, the detail section has yes set for shrink
and grow.
I'm not sure that I'm even understanding what the problem is. Sometimes it
seems to work and sometimes it doesn't. The report really produces a 5 page
letter, of which the detail section accounts for two or three of those pages.
For some reason at this one paragraph, it will sometimes make the page break
a
little early.
Thanks,
Varvara
 
M

Marshall Barton

Maybe the detail section's KeepTogether property is causing
it?

There is also a KeepTogether property for groups. If you
are using grouping, check this and any group headers and
footers for ForceNewPage.
 
G

Guest

Marshall,
Thank you for your help. The keep together property for the detail section
is set to no. Should it be?
I originally had the text boxes in a group, but not now. All the boxes say
shringk and grow=yes. I tried putting them in a group again, and couldn't
find the keep together property on them where it said "Multiple selection".

The place where it is cutting is a text box in the middle of the 12 boxes,
and where it cuts is after the first line of that paragraph that it is
supposed to produce, and the rest appears on the next page. The only think I
could think if is it's at the 8.5 mark on the detail section.
Maybe there's not an answer, but your answers did help me to understand
better for the future. Thank you.
Varvara


Marshall Barton said:
Maybe the detail section's KeepTogether property is causing
it?

There is also a KeepTogether property for groups. If you
are using grouping, check this and any group headers and
footers for ForceNewPage.
--
Marsh
MVP [MS Access]
...the detail section has yes set for shrink and grow.
I'm not sure that I'm even understanding what the problem is. Sometimes it
seems to work and sometimes it doesn't. The report really produces a 5 page
letter, of which the detail section accounts for two or three of those pages.
For some reason at this one paragraph, it will sometimes make the page break
a little early.
 
M

Marshall Barton

I'm not sure what you are describing with "I originally had
the text boxes in a group, but not now. ... I tried putting
them in a group again". It almost sounds as if your idea of
a group is different from Access' record grouping feature.

If you are using Sorting and Grouping (view menu) then the
group has a KeepTogether property that can be set to No,
Whole Group or With First Detail. Individual controls do
not have a KeepTogether property. If the detail section for
a single record is being split in the middle, then I don't
see how that can be the problem.

The 8.5 inch mark might be a clue to having the page height
set to a strange value. Or maybe the Top or bottom margin
is goofy. Check these settings in the File Page Setup menu
item.

Do you have a Page Footer section? If so, where does it
appear on the page?

One other thing that might provide some insight into what's
going on if you temporarily set the BackColor of each
section to a different color. This way, you can tell if a
section has some extra empty space. A white area would
indicate that the report is not using some of the space.
 
G

Guest

Marshall, Sorry for my delay in responding. If it's not too late, I still am
having this problem.

You were correct in that I didn't uderstand grouping, I was grouping text
boxes together before and that's what I thought you meant. I see now what
you say about the sorting and grouping menu. I do have some values in there,
but as where my question is in the detail section, it's not included in that
menu, so I assume I need to go to the properties for the section, which has
keep together and force new page set to no. I do have 3 sorting and grouping
orders, becasue there's some parts of the letter below the detail section
that I want to use the keep together property. Maybe I need to try to make a
new section and take everything out of the detail section?

I have the margins set to .25 top and .5 bottom bcause I do have a page
header and footer and I want them tucked closed to the edge of the page.
So I did as you suggested, and color coded the sections. There was a white
space below the last of the text and the page footer, about one inch. Could
it have to do something with the page footer? It has a height of .375".

Thank you again for your help.

Varvara

Marshall Barton said:
I'm not sure what you are describing with "I originally had
the text boxes in a group, but not now. ... I tried putting
them in a group again". It almost sounds as if your idea of
a group is different from Access' record grouping feature.

If you are using Sorting and Grouping (view menu) then the
group has a KeepTogether property that can be set to No,
Whole Group or With First Detail. Individual controls do
not have a KeepTogether property. If the detail section for
a single record is being split in the middle, then I don't
see how that can be the problem.

The 8.5 inch mark might be a clue to having the page height
set to a strange value. Or maybe the Top or bottom margin
is goofy. Check these settings in the File Page Setup menu
item.

Do you have a Page Footer section? If so, where does it
appear on the page?

One other thing that might provide some insight into what's
going on if you temporarily set the BackColor of each
section to a different color. This way, you can tell if a
section has some extra empty space. A white area would
indicate that the report is not using some of the space.
--
Marsh
MVP [MS Access]

Thank you for your help. The keep together property for the detail section
is set to no. Should it be?
I originally had the text boxes in a group, but not now. All the boxes say
shringk and grow=yes. I tried putting them in a group again, and couldn't
find the keep together property on them where it said "Multiple selection".

The place where it is cutting is a text box in the middle of the 12 boxes,
and where it cuts is after the first line of that paragraph that it is
supposed to produce, and the rest appears on the next page. The only think I
could think if is it's at the 8.5 mark on the detail section.
Maybe there's not an answer, but your answers did help me to understand
better for the future.
 
M

Marshall Barton

I am still not clear on the how your report is designed.

Do you have any Grouping (Sorting amd Grouping) that have
the group's KeepTogether property set? If any group has its
KeepTogether property set, then the group will be split
after the group header starts at the top of a page and the
remainder of the specified part of the group (either the
header and first detail or the group header, all details in
the group and footer) do not fit on a page. Is it possible
that this is what you are seeing and the split is normal or
Access does not understand the page height so is doing the
the expected thing but on a page size that is different than
the paper you are using?

You said a text box is split in the middle and that the
split occurs about 8.5 inches from the top of the page.
This implies that you are not using letter size paper, but I
don't know what you have set the paper size to in Page
Setup.

You did say that the detail section does not have its
KeepTogether property set, but you also said some other
section(s?) do have the KeepTogether property set to Yes. I
think these other sections may(?) have something to do with
the problem, so it would be helpful for you to provide more
details about the sections and their properties.

Since the detail section does not have it's KeepTogether
property set to Yes, it is expected that the section and any
of its controls might be split. So I conclude that your
problem is that the split is not occuring at the end of the
page.

How any of that can produce a gap between the middle of a
text box and the page footer section escapes me so I am
shooting in the dark here.
 
G

Guest

I appreciate your help as I am at such a loss on this!

Here's what my report is like:
I have a Report Header (small, keep together=yes)
Page Header (small, just 2 text boxes)

Detail (very large, keep together = no) (this makes up the body of the
letter, it has the name and address, greeting, and then following this, about
12 text boxes (i" high in size) full of & and iff statements and fields,
using the vertical and horizontal allignment to place them all right next to
one another as a letter. This could produce a 2-3 page letter (on letter size
paper))

Footer section, with closing signatures for letter (keep together =yes)

another footer section with cc and enclosure information (keep together =yes)

another footer section with a subreport (keep together = no, but force new
page at beginning)

page footer with date and page #s on every page.

My page is set to Letter. About 1/2 way down the detail section in design
view, at 8.5 it cuts a page in the letter, although it should be there.
There are text boxes before and after this.









Marshall Barton said:
I am still not clear on the how your report is designed.

Do you have any Grouping (Sorting amd Grouping) that have
the group's KeepTogether property set? If any group has its
KeepTogether property set, then the group will be split
after the group header starts at the top of a page and the
remainder of the specified part of the group (either the
header and first detail or the group header, all details in
the group and footer) do not fit on a page. Is it possible
that this is what you are seeing and the split is normal or
Access does not understand the page height so is doing the
the expected thing but on a page size that is different than
the paper you are using?

You said a text box is split in the middle and that the
split occurs about 8.5 inches from the top of the page.
This implies that you are not using letter size paper, but I
don't know what you have set the paper size to in Page
Setup.

You did say that the detail section does not have its
KeepTogether property set, but you also said some other
section(s?) do have the KeepTogether property set to Yes. I
think these other sections may(?) have something to do with
the problem, so it would be helpful for you to provide more
details about the sections and their properties.

Since the detail section does not have it's KeepTogether
property set to Yes, it is expected that the section and any
of its controls might be split. So I conclude that your
problem is that the split is not occuring at the end of the
page.

How any of that can produce a gap between the middle of a
text box and the page footer section escapes me so I am
shooting in the dark here.
--
Marsh
MVP [MS Access]

Marshall, Sorry for my delay in responding. If it's not too late, I still am
having this problem.

You were correct in that I didn't uderstand grouping, I was grouping text
boxes together before and that's what I thought you meant. I see now what
you say about the sorting and grouping menu. I do have some values in there,
but as where my question is in the detail section, it's not included in that
menu, so I assume I need to go to the properties for the section, which has
keep together and force new page set to no. I do have 3 sorting and grouping
orders, becasue there's some parts of the letter below the detail section
that I want to use the keep together property. Maybe I need to try to make a
new section and take everything out of the detail section?

I have the margins set to .25 top and .5 bottom bcause I do have a page
header and footer and I want them tucked closed to the edge of the page.
So I did as you suggested, and color coded the sections. There was a white
space below the last of the text and the page footer, about one inch. Could
it have to do something with the page footer? It has a height of .375".
 
G

Guest

Please let me clarify my last paragraph - the problem is that the split is
not occuring at the end of the page for only page 1 of the letter. The split
always occurs at a certain text box that is neither the first nor the last in
the detail section.
If this text box happens to fall to the second page because there is more
information for a certain individual, there is not a problem.
The problem occurs if the information is shorter for an individual, the
first page is cut and has a gap that could vary it seems to up to two inches
from the page footer.
Thank you again.
Varvara



guat said:
I appreciate your help as I am at such a loss on this!

Here's what my report is like:
I have a Report Header (small, keep together=yes)
Page Header (small, just 2 text boxes)

Detail (very large, keep together = no) (this makes up the body of the
letter, it has the name and address, greeting, and then following this, about
12 text boxes (i" high in size) full of & and iff statements and fields,
using the vertical and horizontal allignment to place them all right next to
one another as a letter. This could produce a 2-3 page letter (on letter size
paper))

Footer section, with closing signatures for letter (keep together =yes)

another footer section with cc and enclosure information (keep together =yes)

another footer section with a subreport (keep together = no, but force new
page at beginning)

page footer with date and page #s on every page.

My page is set to Letter. About 1/2 way down the detail section in design
view, at 8.5 it cuts a page in the letter, although it should be there.
There are text boxes before and after this.









Marshall Barton said:
I am still not clear on the how your report is designed.

Do you have any Grouping (Sorting amd Grouping) that have
the group's KeepTogether property set? If any group has its
KeepTogether property set, then the group will be split
after the group header starts at the top of a page and the
remainder of the specified part of the group (either the
header and first detail or the group header, all details in
the group and footer) do not fit on a page. Is it possible
that this is what you are seeing and the split is normal or
Access does not understand the page height so is doing the
the expected thing but on a page size that is different than
the paper you are using?

You said a text box is split in the middle and that the
split occurs about 8.5 inches from the top of the page.
This implies that you are not using letter size paper, but I
don't know what you have set the paper size to in Page
Setup.

You did say that the detail section does not have its
KeepTogether property set, but you also said some other
section(s?) do have the KeepTogether property set to Yes. I
think these other sections may(?) have something to do with
the problem, so it would be helpful for you to provide more
details about the sections and their properties.

Since the detail section does not have it's KeepTogether
property set to Yes, it is expected that the section and any
of its controls might be split. So I conclude that your
problem is that the split is not occuring at the end of the
page.

How any of that can produce a gap between the middle of a
text box and the page footer section escapes me so I am
shooting in the dark here.
--
Marsh
MVP [MS Access]

Marshall, Sorry for my delay in responding. If it's not too late, I still am
having this problem.

You were correct in that I didn't uderstand grouping, I was grouping text
boxes together before and that's what I thought you meant. I see now what
you say about the sorting and grouping menu. I do have some values in there,
but as where my question is in the detail section, it's not included in that
menu, so I assume I need to go to the properties for the section, which has
keep together and force new page set to no. I do have 3 sorting and grouping
orders, becasue there's some parts of the letter below the detail section
that I want to use the keep together property. Maybe I need to try to make a
new section and take everything out of the detail section?

I have the margins set to .25 top and .5 bottom bcause I do have a page
header and footer and I want them tucked closed to the edge of the page.
So I did as you suggested, and color coded the sections. There was a white
space below the last of the text and the page footer, about one inch. Could
it have to do something with the page footer? It has a height of .375".


:
I'm not sure what you are describing with "I originally had
the text boxes in a group, but not now. ... I tried putting
them in a group again". It almost sounds as if your idea of
a group is different from Access' record grouping feature.

If you are using Sorting and Grouping (view menu) then the
group has a KeepTogether property that can be set to No,
Whole Group or With First Detail. Individual controls do
not have a KeepTogether property. If the detail section for
a single record is being split in the middle, then I don't
see how that can be the problem.

The 8.5 inch mark might be a clue to having the page height
set to a strange value. Or maybe the Top or bottom margin
is goofy. Check these settings in the File Page Setup menu
item.

Do you have a Page Footer section? If so, where does it
appear on the page?

One other thing that might provide some insight into what's
going on if you temporarily set the BackColor of each
section to a different color. This way, you can tell if a
section has some extra empty space. A white area would
indicate that the report is not using some of the space.


guat wrote:
Thank you for your help. The keep together property for the detail section
is set to no. Should it be?
I originally had the text boxes in a group, but not now. All the boxes say
shringk and grow=yes. I tried putting them in a group again, and couldn't
find the keep together property on them where it said "Multiple selection".

The place where it is cutting is a text box in the middle of the 12 boxes,
and where it cuts is after the first line of that paragraph that it is
supposed to produce, and the rest appears on the next page. The only think I
could think if is it's at the 8.5 mark on the detail section.
Maybe there's not an answer, but your answers did help me to understand
better for the future.


:
Maybe the detail section's KeepTogether property is causing
it?

There is also a KeepTogether property for groups. If you
are using grouping, check this and any group headers and
footers for ForceNewPage.

guat wrote:
...the detail section has yes set for shrink and grow.
I'm not sure that I'm even understanding what the problem is. Sometimes it
seems to work and sometimes it doesn't. The report really produces a 5 page
letter, of which the detail section accounts for two or three of those pages.
For some reason at this one paragraph, it will sometimes make the page break
a little early.

I have a report with about 12 text boxes lined one right after the other -
all with the shrink and grow properties = yes. The problem lies that for a
report that is smaller than the rest, it put a page break in earlier than it
should. In other words, there's a lot of blank space at the bottom of the
first page.

What I noticed is that this page break is occuring around the 8.5" spot on
the detail section.
 
M

Marshall Barton

After thinking about this for a couple days, I have come up
with nothing new. I think I understand what you are
describing, but we have exhausted every explanation I can
imagine that might cause the problem. Sorry I couldn't be
more help.
 
G

Guest

Thank you anyway, Marshall. I found all of your comments quite helpful in
learning how to debug/fix report problems. It's probably something simple
that I'm overlooking. Thanks for taking the time.
Varvara


Marshall Barton said:
After thinking about this for a couple days, I have come up
with nothing new. I think I understand what you are
describing, but we have exhausted every explanation I can
imagine that might cause the problem. Sorry I couldn't be
more help.
--
Marsh
MVP [MS Access]

Please let me clarify my last paragraph - the problem is that the split is
not occuring at the end of the page for only page 1 of the letter. The split
always occurs at a certain text box that is neither the first nor the last in
the detail section.
If this text box happens to fall to the second page because there is more
information for a certain individual, there is not a problem.
The problem occurs if the information is shorter for an individual, the
first page is cut and has a gap that could vary it seems to up to two inches
from the page footer.
 

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