Can high voltage from power supply damage harddrive?

[Arno]

Yes, it is a very common cause, especially in external enclosures
where people apply a 19V - 20V laptop power adapter in place of the
original 12V supply.

That is one reason laptops have non-standard power connecctors today.
Though my old Sony Vaio Brick (16.5V) vopuld fit. Sony computer
engineering sucks badly...

In most cases there is an easy no-cost DIY fix. It involves using a
pair of flush cutters to remove a shorted TVS (transient voltage
suppression) diode.

That is stupid. It is there for a reason. You always
need to repair protection circuitry, not just remove it.
Otherwise you end up like the Deepwhater Horizon.

These articles should help you identify the various components:

HDD from inside Main parts:
http://hddscan.com/doc/HDD_from_inside.html

WD Pc easy Faultdiagnostic troubleshooting must try it ...
http://forum.hddguru.com/easy-faultdiagnostic-troubleshooting-must-try-t12319.html

My notes may also help:
http://www.users.on.net/~fzabkar/HDD/HDD_ICs.txt
http://www.users.on.net/~fzabkar/HDD/TVS_diodes.txt

If you upload a detailed photo of the component side of the drive's
PCB, maybe I could help you locate the faulty component. That said, if
the drive spins up, then the PCB is probably OK. The fault will
instead be inside the HDA.

If you wish to replace the TVS diode, then you can use an SMBJ12A in
place of the 12V diode, and an SMAJ5.0A in place of the 5V diode. Both
parts are available from Farnell, Mouser, Digikey.

Be aware that early model drives are not protected by TVS diodes.
Also, when such a diode is present, there will sometimes be a fuse
(Samsung), or zero-ohm resistor (WD), or inductor (Seagate), or
polyswitch (Hitachi) in series with the supply. These often go
open-circuit and will need to be bridged with a short piece of wire.
Alternatively, you could use a 2A smt fuse:

Littelfuse Surface Mount Fuses, N = 2A, S = 4A:
http://www.farnell.com/datasheets/48294.pdf

Reasonable instructions. I have seen transils (TVS diodes) on
quite a few HDDs. They are pretty cheap and pretty effective.
However, as the PSU and mainboard of the OP still works, I
doubt overvoltage was the problem.

Arno

 

[mm]

In modern drives, you will need to transplant the 8-pin serial EEPROM

This drive was sold January of 2004. Is that modern enough that I
would have to transplant the EEPROM?

(of course that also makes it harder to get a copy of the drive, even
without the same software that Devils mentioned. I don't know the
drive model number yet.

Yousuf, if I had two dead drives, maybe I could set up a dead drive
museum for the neighborhood children. I probably have other drives I
could include. Maybe for Halloween.

chip, or its contents, from patient to donor. This chip stores unique,
drive specific calibration data. Identical drives manufactured in the
same factory on the same day will have different ROM contents. In
particular, there are "adaptive" data for each head.

OTOH, this could account for why the first guy didn't try to fix the
drive, and didn't charge either, or didn't charge much.

Thanks all.

 

[westom]

I'm pretty certain a lack of power was what killed one of my old 500GB
drives a few years back. Up until that time, it was working perfectly,
there were no SMART errors, etc. Then one day, I added another hard
drive into the system, and this one just stopped functioning
simultaneously. The only plausible answer is that the PS wasn't putting
enough power out to run all of the drives at the same time.

A more plausible answer is static electric discharge from your
hand. You would not even know you generated that discharge. Many
other reasons also exist.

All disk drives see 'lack of power'. That is the message that tells
every drive (even long before the PC existed) that power has been
turned off. Disk drives work normally. Or if power (voltage) is too
low, the disk drive says, "Oh, this is a power off", and then does the
normal shutdown procedure.

Accurately noted by others. A power supply (with standard and
required functions) will not destroy a disk drive. Many computer
techs without electrical knowledge will simply blame mythical surges –
because that is what most people are told to blame.

mm - it is possible to obtain an identical drive from a used
component house. As others noted, your firmware revision on that new
drive must be identical. Since it costs tens of dollars to buy one,
well, I have had good experiences recovering data this way. But
again, be careful that firmware revisions are identical for drives
with same model number.

If you don't already know it, torx drives are often necessary to
swap the boards.

 

[mike]

I just talked to my friend who gave me the Dell computer, and he said
that his repair guy told him the reason his harddrive failed may
(likely?) have been a surge or something coming from the power supply.

I haven't fixed a computer power supply in a while, so I haven't seen this.
But a common problem on monitor switching supplies is bad caps.
As the caps go bad, the ripple on the output goes up.
The average value is still regulated and would read ok
on your multimeter. Problem is that the peak voltage can go way up.
I had one monitor with a completely open cap. The peak voltage was
20V while the average voltage was still 5V.
That 20 V took out every chip on the board.

 

[Franc Zabkar]

That is stupid. It is there for a reason. You always
need to repair protection circuitry, not just remove it.
Otherwise you end up like the Deepwhater Horizon.

Replace the diode if you want to keep using your drive. Otherwise, use
a good PSU, recover your data, and replace the drive.

I have seen transils (TVS diodes) on
quite a few HDDs. They are pretty cheap and pretty effective.
However, as the PSU and mainboard of the OP still works, I
doubt overvoltage was the problem.

Arno

All modern drives appear to have them. They don't always manage to
contain the damage. I answer questions about TVS diodes almost every
day, in various forums.

- Franc Zabkar

 

[Franc Zabkar]

On Sun, 29 Aug 2010 16:57:02 +1000, Franc Zabkar

This drive was sold January of 2004. Is that modern enough that I
would have to transplant the EEPROM?

I don't know. That would best be answered by a data recovery
specialist.

- Franc Zabkar

 

[David W. Hodgins]

in modern installations. With below ground mains, the
surge risk is very, very small.

Common misconception. From ...
http://tdworld.com/mag/power_underground_cable_program/

"A review of the test results and general lightning attraction
theory shows that the incidence of damaging strikes to cables
could be greater than expected and, in some cases, may rival
overhead line direct strokes."

Regards, Dave Hodgins

 

[Arno]

Common misconception. From ...
http://tdworld.com/mag/power_underground_cable_program/

"A review of the test results and general lightning attraction
theory shows that the incidence of damaging strikes to cables
could be greater than expected and, in some cases, may rival
overhead line direct strokes."

Regards, Dave Hodgins

Actually no misconception at all. Your article does not apply
for several reasons.

Arno

 

[Arno]

On 29 Aug 2010 18:07:25 GMT, Arno <[email protected]> put finger to
keyboard and composed:

Replace the diode if you want to keep using your drive. Otherwise, use
a good PSU, recover your data, and replace the drive.

I can agree to that. It is important to make it very
clear the part is not fit for regular use when the protection
circuitry has been disabled. It is there for a reason, after
all.

All modern drives appear to have them. They don't always manage to
contain the damage. I answer questions about TVS diodes almost every
day, in various forums.

Well, clamping voltages vary. A SMCJ 5V0A can go up to 9.2V before
shortening out. Typical digital electronics has an absolute
maximum of 7V. If the manufacturer put in 6v8 types because of
easier availability, that can go up to 10.5V clamping voltage.

Still a good idea to put these things in, even if they sometimes
are not enough. BTW, the shortening-out is a feature, not a bug,
as it provides continuous protection when the semiconductor
itself fails.

Arno

 

[Rod Speed]

That is BS. First, a surge protector would not help here at all.
Second, changes in AC frequency are harmless for most equipment
including computers. You clock may be off by a bit.

No modern PC gets its clock from the mains frequency anymore.

But at least in Europe these variances are tiny.

What a surge protector is for is to catch severe overvoltage
spikes induced by ligthening stikes close to or into above
ground mains lines. These go into the > 1000V range
and can not only kill PSUs, they can also induce overvoltage
on the low-volt side in badly designed PSUs. It is the task
of the surge protector to limit the voltge to something
like 400V (235V AV) or 200V (115V AC), which a PSU can
usualy withstand for some miliseconds (at least if reasonable
quality).

Note that above-ground mains lines are a sign of an
underdeveloped or very old grid and are not in use anymore
in modern installations.

Thats just plain wrong too in quite a bit of the modern first world.

With below ground mains, the surge risk is very, very small.

Its still non zero tho.

 

[Rod Speed]

mm wrote

This drive was sold January of 2004. Is that modern enough that I
would have to transplant the EEPROM?
Nope.

(of course that also makes it harder to get a copy of the drive, even
without the same software that Devils mentioned. I don't know the
drive model number yet.

Yousuf, if I had two dead drives, maybe I could set up a dead drive
museum for the neighborhood children. I probably have other drives I
could include. Maybe for Halloween.

OTOH, this could account for why the first guy didn't try to
fix the drive, and didn't charge either, or didn't charge much.

Unlikely with a drive of that vintage.

 

[mm]

I don't know. That would best be answered by a data recovery
specialist.

I don't know any for sure, so I'll rely on Rod, because he gave me the
answer I wanted to hear! (He said, it's not modern enough for that to
be an issue.)

Well, I called my friend and got the numbers and they do have them for
sale, 110 or so for reconditioned and 25 to 35 for working but not
reconned.

I did actual hard work today, moving furniture, and I'm beat. I'll
finish reading this thread tomorrow and start another one about the
details of his drive.

I'll look for a techie Seagate forum too.

Well, it's model ST3120026AS
s/n 3Jt3CM4D
k/n 9W2813-032
hdaj/n 100307103
config 5Zg-08
firmware 8.05
date 04231
site code AMK

It has no rev. number I'm sure model and firmware are important but I
don't know about k/n, config, hdaj/n and site code.

I presume date and serial number are unimportant if they don't cause
other things on the list to change.

One of the drives for sale is Rev. A00. I presume I guess that is
incompatible with one that has no rev number, even if the firmware
number is the same???

- Franc Zabkar

Thanks a lot.

 

[Franc Zabkar]

Well, I called my friend and got the numbers and they do have them for
sale, 110 or so for reconditioned and 25 to 35 for working but not
reconned.

Well, it's model ST3120026AS

If you purchase your board from the following vendor, it will cost you
US$40, plus $10 for the ROM transfer, if required.

http://www.onepcbsolution.com/

He has had good reports in two other forums that I watch, including
Seagate's.

BTW, the serial EEPROM is the 8-pin chip in the top LH corner of this
photo:
http://www.ixbt.com/storage/barr7200-7-sata/pcb-big.jpg

The two TVS diodes are the components marked BUX (12V) and QE (5V) at
the bottom RH corner.

- Franc Zabkar

 

[Rod Speed]

mm wrote

I don't know any for sure, so I'll rely on Rod, because he gave me the
answer I wanted to hear! (He said, it's not modern enough for that to
be an issue.)

Well, I called my friend and got the numbers and they do have them for
sale, 110 or so for reconditioned and 25 to 35 for working but not reconned.

They dont need to be reconned.

I did actual hard work today, moving furniture, and I'm beat. I'll
finish reading this thread tomorrow and start another one about the
details of his drive.

I'll look for a techie Seagate forum too.

Well, it's model ST3120026AS
s/n 3Jt3CM4D
k/n 9W2813-032
hdaj/n 100307103
config 5Zg-08
firmware 8.05
date 04231
site code AMK

It has no rev. number I'm sure model and firmware are important but I
don't know about k/n, config, hdaj/n and site code.

I presume date and serial number are unimportant if they don't cause
other things on the list to change.

One of the drives for sale is Rev. A00. I presume I guess that is
incompatible with one that has no rev number, even if the firmware
number is the same???

They arent always incompatible if the rev isnt the same, that was overstated.

 

[Arno]

If you purchase your board from the following vendor, it will cost you
US$40, plus $10 for the ROM transfer, if required.

He has had good reports in two other forums that I watch, including
Seagate's.

Interesting service. Should have guessed that somebody has turned
this into a business by now. If they deliver good matches
most of the time, then the price is entirely reasonable. And a
PCB-swap is something that anybody with a screwdriver can perform
given the parts.

BTW, the serial EEPROM is the 8-pin chip in the top LH corner of this
photo:
http://www.ixbt.com/storage/barr7200-7-sata/pcb-big.jpg

The two TVS diodes are the components marked BUX (12V) and QE (5V) at
the bottom RH corner.

Here without any fuses or 0-Ohm resistor, i.e. the "burn the
PCB" option for larger current overvoltages.

I also find it interesting that most (all?) manufacturers
put in the traces vor 3.3V but then do not use them. Pretty
obvious standardization process failure...

Arno

 

[Arno]

On 8/29/2010 11:01 AM PT, Arno typed:

According to my notes: 4/24/2005 -- Replaced the dead Enlight 240 watts
PSU in Debian/Athlon XP box with an old PSU (Enlight EN-8341934; Model:
HPC-340-101; 340 watts) I kept in my closet from previous machines. I
guess the last PSU was too old? I don't remember if Enlight PSUs were
good back then. :/

Never heard of them. That suggests one of the following: ElCheapo,
memory loss on my side, or lack of knowledge on my side ;-)
Age is a factor though.

Hopefully, my current 600 watts SeaSonic S12 PSU (since 6/2006 --
awesome so far -- might get another one as my future PSU brand) and

Seasonic is MID-Range and should be fine as it has a lot
mior power than needed here.

Antec Basiq 500 Watt ATX Power Supply (BP500U) [started making fan
noises and I only had it since 1/23/2010 -- ugh!]).

Antec is prettied-up ElCheapo with a high price tag. I had
one server-grade EPS from them fail. Opened it and it turned
out to be an insufficiently cooled component, in a configuration
that I can only call either "incompetent" or "designed to fail".
The thing was running at about 40% permenant load and about 80%
load on startup (lots of disks). In addition the overall
impression was that of very cheap build design and component
selection.

I will not buy Antec again.

Arno

 

[mm]

Yes, it is a very common cause, especially in external enclosures
where people apply a 19V - 20V laptop power adapter in place of the
original 12V supply.

My friend took it to a friend of his wife, who does data restoration
for a living, according to what I'm told.

He said the drive was "blank", but that there might be some data on it
that the 1000 to 3500 dollar repair could retrieve. I forgot to ask
the details of the drive failure, but I'm guessing he tried to start
the computer o;ne day and it wouldn't start, or he was using it and it
couldn't find a file, so he turned ir off and it woudln't restart.

How could it be blank? Even if the MBR is ruined, it's not blank.
How could he tell without a lot of work that it is blank, or that the
MBR or something needed for the whole drive is ruined?

Maybe he said it "appeared blank". Why would he say that when he
knows it's full of stuff.

He must have hooked it up. How can he tell "blank" from bad
electronics?

The guy didn't charge him anything, so either he did little work, he
doesn't charge when he fails, or he gave my friend a bargain because
he is friends with my friend's wife.

More below.

In most cases there is an easy no-cost DIY fix. It involves using a
pair of flush cutters to remove a shorted TVS (transient voltage
suppression) diode.

These articles should help you identify the various components:

HDD from inside Main parts:
http://hddscan.com/doc/HDD_from_inside.html

WD Pc easy Faultdiagnostic troubleshooting must try it ...
http://forum.hddguru.com/easy-faultdiagnostic-troubleshooting-must-try-t12319.html

My notes may also help:
http://www.users.on.net/~fzabkar/HDD/HDD_ICs.txt
http://www.users.on.net/~fzabkar/HDD/TVS_diodes.txt

Tnanks for all of these.

If you upload a detailed photo of the component side of the drive's
PCB, maybe I could help you locate the faulty component. That said, if

Thank you. I don't have it yet, and haven't even asked for it, until
I'm a little farther along on this process.

the drive spins up, then the PCB is probably OK. The fault will
instead be inside the HDA.

HDA?

That sounds bad, because the circuit board is all that I can replace,
or fiddle with, right?

If you wish to replace the TVS diode, then you can use an SMBJ12A in
place of the 12V diode, and an SMAJ5.0A in place of the 5V diode. Both
parts are available from Farnell, Mouser, Digikey.

If a surge caused the TVS diode to short, I should be able to see that
with on ohmmeter, right? And if it's still good I should be able to
see that.

Be aware that early model drives are not protected by TVS diodes.

This one was sold inside the Dell in January of 2004. It's date code
is 04231, which I'm figuring is the Julian date and about August 15,
2004. Young enough to certainly have TVS diodes?

Also, when such a diode is present, there will sometimes be a fuse
(Samsung), or zero-ohm resistor (WD), or inductor (Seagate), or
polyswitch (Hitachi) in series with the supply. These often go
open-circuit and will need to be bridged with a short piece of wire.
Alternatively, you could use a 2A smt fuse:

I could do any of those.

 

[mm]

I can agree to that. It is important to make it very
clear the part is not fit for regular use when the protection
circuitry has been disabled. It is there for a reason, after
all.

I promise you that in my case, if I get it running, I'll copy all the
files, data first if I figure out ....Documents and Settings, it's
called. Data first and then the rest of the drive, and after that the
drive will be junk...or maybe in my museum of succesful repairs. (If
only I could get more people to visit than must me.)

MM

 

[mm]

I haven't fixed a computer power supply in a while, so I haven't seen this.
But a common problem on monitor switching supplies is bad caps.
As the caps go bad, the ripple on the output goes up.
The average value is still regulated and would read ok
on your multimeter. Problem is that the peak voltage can go way up.
I had one monitor with a completely open cap. The peak voltage was
20V while the average voltage was still 5V.
That 20 V took out every chip on the board.

I get it. I'll keep this in mind.

I'm looking for a PS that will fit this Dell computer. I found some
prospects last night but then I got tired.

 

[mm]

I've had a bad power supply crap a couple of hard drives.


It's only happened to me with one power supply (two drive,) so I can't
give you frequency data.


It does sound like a guess the way you tell it. Hard drives can
certainly fail without the power supply causing it, so I would be
interested to hear why he suspects the PSU.

No reaso;n given. Even for good repairmen, image is important, so I
can imagine a qualified person still bluffing, or just going on the
previous instance. And my friend's wife might even have an
exaggerated impression of how much he does this. One would like to
think 40 hours a week, but it might be one every two weeks, or he does
related stuff and only does this once in a long while.

It's a complicated world, even when one is being scrupulously honest.

I don't think that will work particularly well. If you have a
legitimate reason to suspect the supply, just replace it.

Okay.

You've all convinced me I can't test it. I'm looking for one that
will fit.

Thanks and thanks to all of you who are helping me.