C.O.L.A. Newcomer FAQ and Primer


C

collie4roy

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
+ +
+ C.O.L.A. Newcomer FAQ and Primer +
+ Edition: 11 - 1/19/07 +
+ Group: comp.os.linux.advocacy +
+ +
+ Copyright (c) 2002-2007 Linux Reality Team +
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Welcome to comp.os.linux.advocacy, otherwise known as cola. This
FAQ will try to address most of the issues regarding Linux and
this group. Unlike the other FAQs, this one will try to be as
realistic as possible. If you want the straight information from
real people, continue reading. If you would like to be told what
you want to hear, or read a bunch of misinformation that you will
regret later as you find things don't work as they should, feel free
to read one of the other "FAQS" in here.

OK, on to the info! ADDED NEW SECTION BELOW!

Here's a list of some frequently asked and answered question here
and elsewhere that you may find useful in your quest to try linux.
Read these carefully before you decide to invest time in Linux, you
may find that you have better things you can do instead.

SECTION ONE - INSTALLATION
--------------------------

1.1 Q: I heard linux was easy to install, is it?
A: That depends on what distro you try. Most of them will have
trouble detecting all your hardware. Most new hardware devices
are not supported. If your lucky you might be able to find
something that someone threw together on the net. But that's
after spending a couple hours searching and probably won't take
advantage of your hardware to it's fullest capability.

1.2 Q: Once I get it installed, then what?
A: Then you get the joy of making sure everything is configured
right. Plan on a minimum of two hours per device to get it to
work. That's if the device is even supported.

1.3 Q: What happens if I'm in the middle of an install and the
installation freezes or just stops?
A: You get to reboot and start all over again. :) This happens
every so often with Linux. It seems like it's buggy install
routines or something. Ain't Linux grand? :)

1.4 Q: What's the deal?! I installed Linux and it took up almost 2GB
hard drive space!
A: The Linux distros usually install a LOT of never-used programs
on the default install. You can pick and choose what you want,
but good luck figuring out what programs are needed and what is
useless, obscure tools. Linux usually installs stuff like 10
different editors, 12 different mail clients, and so on.

(more to come...)

SECTION TWO - CONFIGURATION
---------------------------

2.1 Q: What's with all these cryptic files?
A: All of Linux is configured with cryptic text files. Some of
the more user-friendly distros have configuration utilities
that claim to do it for you, but success with these works
sometimes and other times don't, so sometimes you have to
edit them by hand. With Linux's spotty reliability in UI
programming, you might as well get used to it.

2.2 Q: What is killall, HUP, ls, cat, rm, which, etc and why are
these programs telling me to do them? Arggg!!
A: These are command line programs that do things within the
system. It's what makes Linux a powerful OS for those that
are experienced with it. But it's also what makes it a pain
in the arse to use and inefficient as a desktop system. Who
wants to type all the time when they can just click?!

(more to come...)

SECTION THREE - APPLICATIONS
----------------------------

3.1 Q: Where can I get some programs to run on linux?
A: Good question. Because Linux doesn't have a large user base
on the desktop,(I think it's about 0.24%, less than 1%)
companies that make software won't write their programs for
Linux. There's a lot of community created programs out there,
and some are fairly good, but those are few and far between.
Most of the Linux software that tries to mimic it's windows
counterpart is substandard. It's usually slow and buggy and
early in development.

3.2 Q: I tried to install an RPM but I got 'failed dependencies', what
is that?
A: That's Linux's version of DLL hell. Different versions and
distros use different libraries. So unlike windows where
programs will run on many different versions, Linux programs
will fail if they're not made for your specific version.

3.3 Q: What is compiling and configure, make and make install? And
what is a makefile?
A: This is a way to build the programs from the source code
under Linux. When the question above fails, you can always
build it yourself. The advantage is that it works most of
the time. The disadvantage is that it takes forever to build
large programs, you need to know some cryptic commands and
you have to do all this on a command line. Unlike Windows
where you just double click and you are done.

3.4 Q: Can I go to my local store to buy any Linux applications?
A: Not really. You can buy Linux itself at various stores. But
not too many commercial companies make applications for Linux,
there's no profit in it with 0.24% of the desktop market.

(more to come...)

SECTION FOUR - SPEED ISSUES
---------------------------

4.1 Q: Why is Linux so slow?
A: Linux is built on the technology of the old UNIX OS's. Even
the graphical user interface of Linux is a separate program
that
is the same type they used back in the older UNIX days. So
working with old technology will give you the old technology
responsiveness. Also, a lot of the GUI's, although nice to look
at, are still not mature. Using them is slow and sluggish
compared to, say, Windows.

(more to come...)

SECTION FIVE - CONSISTENCY
--------------------------

5.1 Q: Why are the windows different looking?
A: Since Linux isn't built by one company, group or have any
governing body, programs and interfaces can vary dramatically.
You can have everything from the nice look of KDE, to something
as ugly as TK and everything in between. You'll usually see
some
varying UI stile in Linux.

5.2 Q: Should I buy Suse Linux?
A: No. They make it difficult to get it for free. All the other
distros provide free ISO's to download. Suse is the only one
that doesn't provide them but instead has a FTP install that's
hard to get to work. Why should they make it easy? The more
people that can't get the download to work have to spend $80
or more for the boxed set. And on top of all that although
it might have a few more user friendly tools, it's still the
same base Linux system that's in development and that all the
other distros are using. In other words, they're all on about
the same level of struggling to catch up to Windows, so you're
not going to find any earth-shattering features in one compared
to another.

(more to come...)

SECTION SIX - LINUX COMMUNITY
-----------------------------

6.1 Q: What is RTFM?!
A: This is an acronym for Read The Fuc*ing Manual. This is a
common
answer you'll get when asking for help in the Linux community.
It's meant to make you feel inadequate while boating the Linux
persons ego at the same time. See, Linux enthusiasts consider
themselves to be guru like and above helping out the simple
newbie. You have to earn your respect by spending countless
hours becoming a kernel hacker before you're worthy of getting
any help.

6.2 Q: Why does everyone think they are better than you when using
Linux?
A: Same as above. When people use Linux they believe since it
takes
a little more knowledge to use Linux, they are technically
superior,
and see themselves as an elite group that doesn't have time for
the
pathetic little Windows people.

(more to come...)

SECTION SEVEN - LINUX ADVOCACY, HELPING OR HURTING?
---------------------------------------------------

7.1 Q: Everyone in here says linux is perfect, why would they say that
if it isn't?
A: We really don't know. Maybe they've used Linux so long that
they've gotten used to it. Some of these people haven't used
Windows in years so they are comparing Linux to the last
windows
they used, maybe Windows 3.1 or 95.

7.2 Q: Why does everyone call you a troll when you ask something that
questions linux?
A: Most of the people here in C.O.L.A. think of Linux more like a
religion than an OS. They mostly are MS haters and feel that
Linux is the greatest thing to ever hit computing. So when
someone questions Linux it's like questioning their belief
system. Instead of looking at it with some logic and
reasonable
judgment, they will lash out at you can't claim your are a
troll
or a paid MS supporter.

7.3 Q: Why does everyone <PLONK> you if you question Linux?
A: Fairly similar to above, Linux advocates can not argue their
point rationally. So to make it look like you are under them
or
you are not worth it, and at the same time find an easy way out
of having to prove themselves, they will <PLONK> you.

(more to come...)

SECTION EIGHT - LINUX EVANGELISM, ZEALOTS
-----------------------------------------

8.1 Q: There are some people that call this FAQ lies and seem to treat
it
like it's a conspiracy against them, and post all sorts of
links
to
anti-microsoft articles. Why are they reacting so strongly?
A: The people that are reacting so strongly are most likely the
Linux
extremists that believe everything negitive that is said about
Linux
comes from Microsoft. Like many cult-like groups, the people
that
belong to them don't have the ability to see things rationally
or
outside of their view. If someone replies to the FAQ, or
anything
questioning a non-favorable view on Linux, that seems a little
"over the edge", do a google search on the person
(http://groups.google.com/) and look at his/her posting history
then
decide for yourself if the person is credible or not.

(more to come...)
 
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G

Guillermo Antonio Amaral Bastidas

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
+                                                         +
+             C.O.L.A. Newcomer FAQ and Primer            +
+                  Edition: 11 - 1/19/07                  +
+              Group: comp.os.linux.advocacy              +
+                                                         +
+        Copyright (c) 2002-2007 Linux Reality Team       +
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Welcome to comp.os.linux.advocacy, otherwise known as cola.  This
FAQ will try to address most of the issues regarding Linux and
this group.  Unlike the other FAQs, this one will try to be as
realistic as possible.  If you want the straight information from
real people, continue reading.  If you would like to be told what
you want to hear, or read a bunch of misinformation that you will
regret later as you find things don't work as they should, feel free
to read one of the other "FAQS" in here.

Please forgive my ignorance, but I am still fresh to C.O.L.A., so I might
not know the answer to the following question.

Why is this FAQ also posted on `microsoft.public.windows.vista.general`,
won't that just cause more troll activity and useless flame threads ?

Cheers,
gamaral

- --
Guillermo Antonio Amaral Bastidas (gamaral)
# Free & Open-source Software Advocate
# KDE Developer: gamaral
@ http://blog.guillermoamaral.com/
$ irc: [email protected] pgp: 0x5D297B74
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Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (GNU/Linux)

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F2oo0ctipTZ2+P97BiTy5/I=
=3baq
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C

Christopher Hunter

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
+ +
+ C.O.L.A. Newcomer FAQ and Primer +
+ Edition: 11 - 1/19/07 +
+ Group: comp.os.linux.advocacy +
+ +
+ Copyright (c) 2002-2007 Linux Reality Team +
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++


/crap snipped/

It's funny - this article was wrong in *every* single detail!

It was obviously written by a very frustrated Windows user, and accurately
illustrates the poor quality of the FUD being promulgated by MS. Sad.

It's *Game* *Over* for Microsoft - even Dell and HP are now providing
pre-installed Linux! It's gone mainstream, and any amount of FUD can't
stop it now!
 
G

Guest

The racist, liar and software thief Gary Stewart (flatfish) nymshifted:

< snip flatfish droppings >

Poor flatfish. So predictable
 
H

High Plains Thumper

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
+ +
+ C.O.L.A. Newcomer FAQ and Primer +
+ Edition: 11 - 1/19/07 +
+ Group: comp.os.linux.advocacy +
+ +
+ Copyright (c) 2002-2007 Linux Reality Team +
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Welcome to comp.os.linux.advocacy, otherwise known as cola. This
FAQ will try to address most of the issues regarding Linux and
this group. Unlike the other FAQs, this one will try to be as
realistic as possible. If you want the straight information from
real people, continue reading. If you would like to be told what
you want to hear, or read a bunch of misinformation that you will
regret later as you find things don't work as they should, feel free
to read one of the other "FAQS" in here.

OK, on to the info! ADDED NEW SECTION BELOW!

SECTION EIGHT - LINUX EVANGELISM, ZEALOTS

Because it simply is.

Following are excerpts from the official FAQ, entire text is found at:

http://www.faqs.org/faqs/linux/advocacy/faq-and-primer/

********************************************************

[comp.os.linux.advocacy] FAQ and Primer for COLA, Edition III

Copyright: (c) 2002 The FAQ and Primer for COLA Team -- All Rights
Reserved

Frequently Asked Questions and Primer for comp.os.linux.advocacy

Edition III

April 19, 2002

+-------------------------------------------------+
| Beware of those who would call you a friend for |
| many will eat your bread while working against |
| you. They will take credit for your good works |
| and blame you for their own misdeeds. |
| - The Great Unknown |
+-------------------------------------------------+

1.1 Availability

This document is posted on a weekly to the comp.os.linux.advocacy,
comp.answers, and news.answers newsgroups. In addition it is archived
at rtfm.mit.edu ftp archive and its mirrors and is also available on
the Internet FAQ Consortium's website at www.faqs.org.

1.2 Welcome to comp.os.linux.advocacy

If you are new to Linux and/or comp.os.linux.advocacy, welcome. It is
hoped that you will will enjoy your time in comp.os.linux.advocacy and
find it educational. We also hope that you will find Linux as useful
for you. and that in the ripeness of time that you will become a
contributing member of the Linux community.

COLA is like a meeting hall for Linux advocacy. A place where those
who advocate the use of Linux can meet and discuss all things Linux.
In addition it is a place were individuals interested in Linux can
come to gain an understanding of the Linux and the Linux community and
to learn about the capabilities of Linux from those who are
experienced with the use, administration, and development of Linux.

By using Linux as a user or sysadmin you are a member of the Linux
community of which this newsgroup is an asset. The Linux community is
world-wide and interconnected by the internet and other networks gated
to the internet.

The description that your news server delivers to you for
comp.os.linux.advocacy, or COLA for short, is "Benefits of Linux
compared to other operating systems". That description is derived from
the charter of COLA. Sometimes advocacy groups are viewed as a place
where the bickering undesirables of other newsgroups are directed, in
order to remove a disruption from another group on the same general
subject. That is incorrect for COLA.

1.3 Contributing to this FAQ and Primer

All those who advocate the use of Linux are invited to submit material
and suggestions to be considered for future versions of this document.
Submissions should be sent by email to (e-mail address removed). You may
also post your submissions in COLA; however, in that case you should
still email your submission as well, so that the submission will not
be missed as can happen if it were posted in COLA only.

Submissions offered by those who may deemed to be hostile to Linux,
including but not limited to anti-Linux propagandists, will not be
accepted.

1.4 The Charter of comp.os.linux.advocacy

The charter of comp.os.linux.advocacy is:

For discussion of the benefits of Linux compared to other operating
systems.

That single sentence is the one and only charter of the newsgroup
comp.os.linux.advocacy. The newsgroup's charter is for the newsgroup
as a place for supporters of Linux to gather to discuss Linux, for the
betterment of the Linux community and the promotion and development of
Linux. It supports this as a place for those who would like to learn
more about Linux to come to learn from those who know Linux. It does
not call for it to be a place where the anti-Linux propagandists to
gather in order to discredit Linux.

You may have heard of another charter sometimes called by some the
"original charter," that opens the newsgroup to the abuses that are
inflicted on Linux by those who oppose Linux. That other charter never
existed, it was a proposed charter for another newsgroup that never
was created that would also have been called comp.os.linux.advocacy.

On 14 Feb 1994, Danny Gould (e-mail address removed) posted
(e-mail address removed) a Request for Discussion
entitled "Request for Discussion (RFD) on comp.os.linux.advocacy" to
the news.groups newsgroup. That RFD was cross posted to the
appropriate newsgroups and a number of other inappropriate newsgroups
as well. It included the following proposed charter:

The proposed group will provide a forum for the discussion of Linux.
In addition, it will allow comp.os.linux.misc to deal with Linux-
specific issues. Discussion will include (but not be limited to) the
discussion of the pros and cons of Linux and applications for Linux,
and the comparison of Linux with other operating systems and
environments such as Microsoft DOS and Windows, SCO UNIX, Coherent,
NeXTstep, Macintosh System, etc. It will be an unmoderated forum.

The call for votes on the proposal was not posted, the issue died
without a vote.

On 4 Oct 1994, Dave Sill (e-mail address removed) posted [email protected] a
Request for Discussion entitled "REQUEST FOR DISCUSSION (RFD)
comp.os.linux reorganization." Thus far comp.os.linux.advocacy was not
yet proposed. Note that unlike Danny, Dave posted the Request for
Discussions to appropriate newsgroups only, that is a hallmark of a
serious effort.

On 14 Oct 1994, Dave Sill (e-mail address removed) posted
[email protected] a revised version of this Request for
Discussion, this revised posting called for the creation of
comp.os.linux.advocacy among other comp.os.linux.* groups. Dave
proposed this charter for comp.os.linux.advocacy:

For discussion of the benefits of Linux compared to other operating
systems.

The Call for Votes went out in the required form, and on 13 Dec 1994
posted the results (e-mail address removed) with greater than 8 to 1 in favor
of the creation of comp.os.linux.advocacy (our COLA) with Dave's
proposed charter. On that date, that charter became effective and that
other charter that was proposed for the other comp.os.linux.advocacy
that never was created, never became anything that affects this
comp.os.linux.advocacy.

Those who oppose Linux and have invaded comp.os.linux.advocacy in
order to try to subvert the purpose of this newsgroup will continue as
they have to insult the intelligence of the Linux advocates by citing
that other proposed charter of that other newsgroup that never came
into existence. They also have continued to quote from the
introductory paragraph of the Danny's Request for Discussion as though
that were a part of any actual or even a part of the failed, proposed
charter. Perhaps they feel that the introductory section provides them
with a greater impact.

When someone posts citations from that failed Request for Discussion
in order to make it appear that the anti-Linux propagandists are
sanctioned to be posting in COLA, as was done by an anti-Linux
propagandist on January 13, 2002 in article
[email protected], then once again by another anti-
Linux propagandist on February 13, 2002 in article
(e-mail address removed) they are not only
using disinformation they are also insulting the intelligence of
everyone who is a reader COLA.

2 COLA

2.1 On Topic Subjects

On-topic is anything anything regarding Linux that is of interest to a
person who advocates the use of Linux, or requests for information
about Linux by a person who would like to learn about it. COLA is also
a great place to share your Linux success stories.

COLA is not a place to advocate the use of other operating systems,
there are other newsgroups for advocating them. COLA is not a place to
vent real or imagined complaints regarding Linux. There are other
newsgroups created for that purpose.

COLA is not a place to post advertisements or other promotions for
financial gain or for promoting anything other than the use of Linux
operating system and growth of the Linux community.

3 Linux

Linux is an operating system based on the unix class of operating
systems. It can be argued that Linux is the kernel of the operating
system; however, in common usage the word Linux is used to refer to
entire operating system as a whole, an operating system comprised of
the kernel, systems utility software, user utility software and to a
lesser extent the applications software. This is the practice that
will be followed in this document. Specific instances of this from
given vendors are referred to as Linux Distributions.

Linux as stated above, is based on unix, but is not legally a clone of
the unix operating system. On the other hand it looks like unix,
behaves like unix, feels like unix enough to functionally be
considered a unix. Linux is more compatible with both major classes of
unix, BSD and AT&T, than they are with each other. Linux fully
operates with with the other unixes as an equal peer via networking.

Linux runs software compatible with those other unixes and in most
cases the very same software does run on each of those unixes and
Linux as well. Where the other unixes have deviated from each other
with various utilities or services, Linux typically supports both of
their styles of utilities. Often Linux is more compatible with the
various unixes, than they are with each other.

Linus Torvalds started developing Linux from scratch as a better unix
than than the Minix that was then available. Minix is a contraction of
Minimal Unix, and is the name of a very minimal unix that was licensed
for educational purposes. The name Linux is in turn a contraction of
Linus's Minix, although the actual results of Linus's early releases
had already so far out classed Minix so that Linus's Unix would have
been a better base to form the contraction Linux.

One of the major goals of creating Linux was to create a unix that was
free from the encumbrances of existing unixes and the licensing that
restricted the use of Minix. So it was necessary to write the Linux
kernel from scratch.

The Linux operating system provides all the features that users and
administrators should expect from any modern, high-performance
operating system. Many of these features have been a part of Linux and
stable for years. While the developers of various, so-called popular
operating systems claim to be innovating, they are only playing catch
up with Linux. As this document is being written, Linux is increasing
its lead with the
development on the 2.5.x series developmental/experimental kernels.

3.1 The Kernel

The Kernel is the core of the operating system. That is the part that
communicates with devices, handles memory management, schedules
processes, and provides other basic services to the systems utility
software, user utility software and applications software. Thanks to
the fact that the kernel handles the hardware and provides a uniform
view of it to higher level software, regardless of your hardware
platform, Linux will present the user with a uniform environment. That
means that once you as a user of Linux learn to run it on a PC, or a
Mac, or a minicomputer, or a mainframe computer you will be able to
sit down to use Linux on any other of the supported platforms, and
feel right at home. The hardware may look and feel different such as a
different key layout or a different pointing device, but Linux
knowledge is portable across hardware platforms. Members of the team
that produced this document can attest to this, through their first
hand experience on multiple hardware platforms running Linux.


Many versions of the Linux kernel have been released, in fact since
the release of the Linux kernel version 1.0.0 in there have been over
600 official main line kernels released, including the AC series of
Linux kernels there have been almost 900 releases in that time. The
reason for so many releases has to do with the development of the
kernel being an open process, this way you don't have to wait for
months or years for a needed patch to be provided or for a feature
that you really need to be made available.

3.9 Linux's Compatibility With Other Operating System

Linux is compatible at different levels with many other operating
systems, ranging from the networking level all the way to running the
same software.

3.9.1 Compatible With Windows

Linux can run Windows software by running that software under the
actual Windows operating system (requiring a properly licensed copy of
Windows) that is in turn running as a guest operating system in a PC
emulator such as VMware. Linux can also run Windows software on Linux
itself with an implementation of the Windows Application Programming
Interface (API) via Wine. It is also possible to compile the source
code for Windows based
software on Linux and link it against the Wine libraries to produce a
Linux executable of that Windows software. One note about Wine, Wine
can only run on PC style hardware, since it is not a PC emulator
hardware, and runs the Windows software directly on the underlying
processor.

Linux can provide network printers and act as a fileserver for Windows
computers by running Samba using TCP/IP networking. You can also use
MarsNWE to provide printers and network volumes using IPX/SPX
networking. Linux can also access shares and printers provided by
computers running Windows by the use of Samba and the Samba
filesystem. Linux can also be a file, and print server to Windows
clients by using Samba. Linux machines
can access Windows machines that are emulating NetWare file servers by
using the NetWare core protocol filesystem.

Linux can read and write to Windows hard drive partitions that use the
filesystems of MS-DOS and Windows 9x. The NTFS filesystem are a bit
problematic because of their nature and they way their specifications
change from version to version. Linux can read Windows NT, Windows
2000, and Windows XP NTFS partitions well; however, writing directly
to such partitions is possible but not recommended.

There is an indirect method for Linux to read and write to NTFS
partitions. Running Windows under a PC emulator such as VMware, give
that copy of Windows access to the NTFS partition or partitions and
have that copy of Windows running as a fileserver. Then let Linux
access the fileserver through a virtual or actual network connection.

Linux understands the Windows extensions to the CD-ROM standards.
Linux can both read them and generate them. Linux can also access
Windows diskettes and other disk media, either by mounting them as any
other Linux partition can be mounted, or by the use of the mtools.

3.9.3 Compatible With MacOS

Linux can provide network printers and act as a fileserver for
Macintosh computers. Linux can access Macintosh based print servers
and fileserver.

Linux can read and write Macintosh floppies, hard drives, and other
disk media.

3.10 Linux Leaves Users Wanting Less

From them 1950's through the 1970's users would expect their computers
to operate as specified in the manuals and the specification sheets.
The POP manuals (Principal of Operations manuals) and the rest of the
documentation of those computers were considered to be faithful
representations of the operations of those computers.

There was one computer that was installed in 1964, the organization
that owned it decommisioned it in 1984, and wanted to donate it to a
college computer science department but they had lost the installation
media of the machine's operating system. The computer was running
twenty-four hours a day and seven days a week for those twenty years
without a single reboot or any down time. There were components that
had failed: individual tape drives and card readers/punches had worn
out and were replaced, CRT terminals were added and the most of the
card readers, the old model 26 keypunch stations and most of the model
29 keypunch stations were retired. Disk drives were added to that
computer years after the initial installation, None of that needed any
downtime or reboots.

In the 1970's there was the development of microprocessors and
microcomputers, most of them matched their operating systems in what
ever form they came in and were as reliable as the computers of the
prior decade. Some of the hardware was problematic but the operating
systems would generally operate as specified.

In the early 1980's something started to change. Today many users have
come to accept and even expect their computers and operating system to
fail frequently, many shops now use regular reboot cycles as an
attempt to use pre-emptive reboots to avoid crashes at unexpected
times. They have come to expect their operating systems and systems
software and applications software to not work as documented. What is
even worse, they often see nothing wrong with that madness. In prior
decades, if such undependability and unreliability were experienced, it
would not have not been acceptable and the vendor would have to replace
those useless systems and often had to pay for the customer's losses as
well.

Now flash forward to present day, users have come to expect very
little from their computers. Such poor performance has led them to
expect less and less while wanting more and more with little prospect
of getting it. But in addition to such unreliable operating systems,
there is Linux, leaving its users wanting less and less because it
provides more and more all the time.

* A stable operating system. Linux users no longer want for a
stable operating system because Linux is as stable operating system.
Twenty four hours, seven days a week non-stop operation for years at
a time with off the shelf PC hardware is not anything unusual for
Linux. As members of the FAQ and Primer team can attest to from
personal experience.

* An operating system that doesn't require me to spend a fortune on
new hardware. Linux can run on hardware with just the computing power
needed or that is available. Linux sysadmins upgrade to more powerful
hardware to have more power available for their users, not to regain
yesterday's performance from today's operating system.

* An operating system with a decent graphical user interface.
Or rather one that can be configured to work the way you want it too.
With the look and feel you seek. Linux does not actually have any
graphical user interfaces, but the X Windowing System is commonly run
on Linux and other unixes. There are also other graphical user
interface besides the X Window System that can run on Linux, including
some next generation test bed systems. If a Linux user wishes he can
run today a user interface that won't be available elsewhere for years
or even decades, that is if he likes to live on the bleeding edge.

* An operating system with lots of useful stuff built in. Much of
what a person needs to purchase to get some other operating systems to
be useful comes with the common Linux distributions. Sometimes in
surprising ways, such as the little program named "cat" that
concatenates files and is the more powerful original that the DOS
command "type" was copied from. The program "cat" also provides by
itself much of the functionality of Norton Ghost.

* An operating system that doesn't try to prevent me from using my
computer. Linux does not second guess or interfere with the human
decision making process. It respects the wisdom of the human sysadmin
and the user. There are utilities available to automate that, but in
the end humans are the bosses. There has been a call for more "Windows
like" automation to take over from human authority, one distribution
that used that philosophy was Corel Linux. It is now a hated
distribution by its own users as a result.

* An OS not prone to viral infections.
While in theory no operating system can be 100% all worms and viruses,
Linux by is nature is immune enough that the possibilities that such
little beasties exist have become like urban legends in the Linux
community. Even if such infections could target Linux, the
multifaceted code base would in itself limit the spread, if a sysadmin
selects the software to run without regard to distributions and does
not use precompiled binaries, he has just increased the level of
immunity of his systems. The worst an attacking worm could do is crash
a server program, but the worm creator could not actually control
anything with the worm because he could not predict the memory layout
of the program he is attacking on systems so independent from
distributions. That same would generally be true with binaries
supplied from a different distribution or different version than the
one he is targeting.

* An operating system which I can program and hack easily
Anyone can have access to the source code of the Linux kernel and
most if not all the programs they run on Linux. If one is a
programmer, Linux provides all the tools and the source code to add or
alter any feature he pleases. If he wants to write a new program and
has questions, about the operation of the library functions, or the
kernel, he can refer to the documentation, ask for help on-line, or
just read the applicable source code. If he has a device for which he
want to create a driver for, he can write it. If he wants to see how
similar drivers work, there is the Linux kernel source code and the
code of the other drivers available.

* An operating system which doesn't decay over time.
Since the late days of DOS programs and the coming of Window NT and
Windows 95, there has been a pheonoma known as software rot, also
known as bit rot. With late DOS programs it could take an individual
program on a production system out of commission needing to be
reinstalled. Windows 95 and Windows NT elevated the software rot
phenomenon from causing the decay of individual programs to the decay
of the entire operating system. This is not a factor with Linux.

All these items are things that Linux users are not wanting for any
longer, because Linux has given to them what they have been wanting
for up to a decade. So yes, Linux leaves its users wanting less,
because it provides so much more of what they have been hoping for
from their prior operating system.
 
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7

7

Micoshaft Corporation's Asstroturfer (e-mail address removed) wrote on behalf of
Micoshaft Corporation:

Pista launch has FLOPPED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Vista / Pista who cares?

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
+                                                         +
+          Micoshaft Pista Newcomer FAQ and Primer        +
+                  Edition: 21 - 9/24/06                  +
+                 Group: Pista Installees                 +
+                                                         +
+       Copyright (c) 2007 Pista Removal Reality Team     +
+            Sponsored by Micoshaft Corporation           +
+                Released Under GPL 3 License             +
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++


Welcome to the Windopz De-Pistification Cut'n Paste FAQette.

WoW that was a mouthful wasn't it boys and girls?!

Have you De-Pistified your PC?

Let me explain:

You bought vista crap from our sponsor micoshaft corporation
and you realize after hours of reboots and re-installs
that our sponsor micoshaft has taken the piss out of you. So you
decide that this vista Pista is not for you.
Now you want to de-install Pista but expee takes up even
more hours and all your driver
diskettes are mislaid/lost and application cds are fscked
because your dog has been shagging it for some time, etc, etc, etc.
Oh Smuck is me you cry out in vain as your PC craps out on you
leaving you with nothing despite you having paid truck loads of money.

Then light at the end of the tunnel appears in the form
of Linux. Now you get angry and use Linux in anger to recover
you data. RAAAAARRRrrrr... you growl through into the night
recovering data, learning GNU/Linux and by midnight all your
work is done, your computers are working, you learned many
things and Linux with Beryl is the king. You can sleep in peace
knowing Linux is your friend and share your dreams
with others...

 Get Linux here...
 http://www.livecdlist.com
 http://www.distrowatch.com

 For Beryl, downloaded latest beta release
 of Ubuntu (Feisty Fawn)...
 http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/releases/feisty/herd-3/

 Install Beryl using the 3 click guide which links from here...
 http://wiki.beryl-project.org/wiki/Install_Beryl_on_Ubuntu

 And so WoW, after 3 clicks, you have Beryl up and running on your PC!!!
  
All that remains is now for you to stick the De-Pistification
Inventory label on your PC to complete the job...

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
+                                                         +
+                 Windopz De-Pistified PC                 +
+                   OS: Ubuntu + Beryl                    +
+                  Edition: 21 - 9/24/06                  +
+                   SN: 69 68 69 96 69                    +
+                                                         +
+       Copyright (c) 2006 Pista Removal Reality Team     +
+                Released Under GPL 3 License             +
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Be sure to come back for more in the next installation
of Micoshaft Pista Removal FAQ and Primer - Edition 22.
 
G

gooseborg

Micoshaft Corporation's Asstroturfer (e-mail address removed) wrote on behalf of
Micoshaft Corporation:

Pista launch has FLOPPED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Vista / Pista who cares?

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
+ +
+ Micoshaft Pista Newcomer FAQ and Primer +
+ Edition: 21 - 9/24/06 +
+ Group: Pista Installees +
+ +
+ Copyright (c) 2007 Pista Removal Reality Team +
+ Sponsored by Micoshaft Corporation +
+ Released Under GPL 3 License +
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Welcome to the Windopz De-Pistification Cut'n Paste FAQette.

WoW that was a mouthful wasn't it boys and girls?!

Have you De-Pistified your PC?

Let me explain:

You bought vista crap from our sponsor micoshaft corporation
and you realize after hours of reboots and re-installs
that our sponsor micoshaft has taken the piss out of you. So you
decide that this vista Pista is not for you.
Now you want to de-install Pista but expee takes up even
more hours and all your driver
diskettes are mislaid/lost and application cds are fscked
because your dog has been shagging it for some time, etc, etc, etc.
Oh Smuck is me you cry out in vain as your PC craps out on you
leaving you with nothing despite you having paid truck loads of money.

Then light at the end of the tunnel appears in the form
of Linux. Now you get angry and use Linux in anger to recover
you data. RAAAAARRRrrrr... you growl through into the night
recovering data, learning GNU/Linux and by midnight all your
work is done, your computers are working, you learned many
things and Linux with Beryl is the king. You can sleep in peace
knowing Linux is your friend and share your dreams
with others...

Get Linux here...
http://www.livecdlist.com
http://www.distrowatch.com

For Beryl, downloaded latest beta release
of Ubuntu (Feisty Fawn)...
http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/releases/feisty/herd-3/

Install Beryl using the 3 click guide which links from here...
http://wiki.beryl-project.org/wiki/Install_Beryl_on_Ubuntu

And so WoW, after 3 clicks, you have Beryl up and running on your PC!!!

All that remains is now for you to stick the De-Pistification
Inventory label on your PC to complete the job...

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
+ +
+ Windopz De-Pistified PC +
+ OS: Ubuntu + Beryl +
+ Edition: 21 - 9/24/06 +
+ SN: 69 68 69 96 69 +
+ +
+ Copyright (c) 2006 Pista Removal Reality Team +
+ Released Under GPL 3 License +
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Be sure to come back for more in the next installation
of Micoshaft Pista Removal FAQ and Primer - Edition 22.


You really should stop sniffing glue while you compile your latest
Linux wonder *7*.
 
S

swing.cock

Seems that most of your "real" problems are due to a lack of support
for somewhat "oddball" hardware. Not everyone will having those
problems. You would not be those problems either, if you had selected
your hardware with Linux in mind.

Keep in mind that the Linux/OSS developers often have to painstakingly
reverse-engineer and code for a massive quantity of different
hardware, while Microsoft places much of that burden on the hardware
makers. That Linux/OSS should not be condemned because it doesn't
"nicely" support every possible hardware.

And hey, if Linux just isn't working-out for you, don't use it. Many
people have "good reasons" to stay with Windows, whether it's hardware
or software (applications). That's no reason to come into Linux
groups and complain how it's not working-out for you. Asking for help
is one thing, bitching and whining are something else.

From now on, I'll just say "see above" when you raise this type of
point.


See above.


See above.


See above.


See above.


See above.


With this point, you wander into troll territory.

Considering how rarely one must edit the system files (requiring the
use of sudo and/or entering the root password), it's not a "stupid
security paradigm" at all. Indeed, it's clearly superior to Windows'
"security paradigm", which seem to be either completely ineffectual,
or a user-nagging pain in the arse (UAC).


You are mistaken. The command line is a powerful tool, not to be
discounted. Even Microsoft has conceeded this point, with their new
"powershell".

Is having to type, ONCE, "sudo vi /etc/apt/sources.list" really that
horribly difficult for you?


If you consider what is merely "different" or "unfamiliar" to be
"flawed", you would be wrong, and would deserve being corrected.


Of course not. Are you just trolling, here?


I've not experienced what you claim to have experienced. What I've
experienced is that those who behave respectably are generally treated
with respect.


Please provide examples of these alleged "command line only" programs
which bother you so much. Are they programs that a normal user would
ever use, and that have no GUI alternative or GUI front end?

I seriously doubt that you can name one that fits these parameters.



Wrong. They already have, which you would know, if you had tried any
of the modern "easy to use" distros.




- Show quoted text -

A perfect example of the *great* help you get from the Linux
community.
What it boils down to is:

1. Blame the user.
2. You are using the wrong distribution out of the 750 different
versions of Linux that exist.

Yea sure...

And you fools wonder why Linux is so unpopular?

Just look in the mirror at your own posts and you will have your
answer.
 
P

pus.boy99

Verily I say unto thee, that Mercury spake thusly:
[H]omer said:
Then use one of the other two thirds. Or better yet, stop leeching
off the community and actually give something back, in the form of
bug reports, rather than just whining about everything. The whole
point of Free Software is participation, not leeching.
Sorry, I have neither the time nor the inclination.

In which case, I have neither the time nor the inclination to offer you
any assistance, much less listen to your incessant whining.
To say Linux is already better than Windows in all, or even most
cases, is a lie.

To say Windows is already better than Linux in all, or even most cases,
is a lie.

Clue: Opinions are subjective, and your anecdotes are dubious.

Translation: You can't solve his problems because Linux simply does
not work correctly.
As for Linux being better than Windows it depends on what you mean by
better.
As a server?
Maybe.
As a desktop?
No way.

Look at it this way, Linux is FREE.
Windows is expensive...

People are willing to spend money for Windows and Windows upgrades
rather than use Linux for FREE.

That sure says a lot when you can't even give something away.
 
P

pus.boy99

He reads that "Mercury" is a troll.
Now go on, tell him how to solve his "problems"

We don't have to

He solved them himself.
He went back to Windows, which is what MOST people do when they
discover how poor Linux's support for hardware is.

You guys are a bad joke gone sour.
You accuse the guy of being a troll, claim how great Linux is and how
he (mercurery) is a troll but then at the same time you accuse him of
scouring the net to find hardware that doesn't work well with Linux.

Well duhhhhhhh...
What's the difference if he is a troll or not?
If the hardware doesn't work with Linux, it doesn't work and others,
who may NOT be trolls have discovered this hence the posts he finds
while scouring the net.

The problem with Linux advocates is they always have another excuse up
their sleeves, or in the case of distributions, about 700 of them up
their sleeves.

Linux seems to be less about form and function and more about blaming
the user, the hardware or the color of the sky that day.
 
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G

Guest

The racist, liar and software thief Gary Stewart (flatfish) nymshifted:

< snip flatfish droppings >

You lately nymshifted to

Abbie Diaz, achmed.jones, Aftab Singh, Allen Cusimano, Allie Perkins,
Allison Juergans, allison_hunt1969, Alicia Hunt, Ana Thema, andyschipowitz,
Anna Banger, anonymous, Archie, Archie Moss Bunker, Archie Watermann,
Attila, Baba Booey, Babcock Johnson, babcock.latreen, Babu Singh, Bill
Thomson, Billy <billy.the.kidd>,bill.gates.loves.me, BingoBongo, bison,
Bjarne Jensen, bjornstad8800, BklynBoy, bonobo magilla, Boyce Mabri, BSEE,
Bunsen Burner, Buster, c.baumstumpff, CBFalconer, Charles LeGrand, Charlie,
Choppers McGee, Chris Thomas, Christine Abernathy, Claire Lynn, Clippy,
Clock King, collie4roy, Collie Entragion, Colon Singh, common cold,
compton.plaines_kid, Connie Hines, Corrie, corry.lebeu, Corrie Titlaand,
Cory Dyvik, Curtis Wilson, cymon.says, Damian O'Leary, Dana Bush, Danny
Kwong, dbx_boy, Deadpenguin, Debbie, Devon Dawson, dismoqualifetch, Donn
Carlsbad, donna.bunting_tv,  dont.pullout, Doug Richardson, Dragon.Boy,
Dr.Long John Jones, dy.sector, echo.valley_26809, Elliot Zimmermann, Elwin
Winters, Emmanuel Arias, Fawn Lebowitz, flatfish+++, foamy, frank boson,
Franz Klammer, Fred Simmons, gabriele howorth, Gary Stewart, GayClod,
George Cotton, George Littlefield, Gilbert, Gilbert Goiter, Gilbert
Hochaim, gilligan, gooseborg, Greg Finnigan, Greg Laplante, Hans Kimm, Hans
Tomlinson, Harry Hilton, Harvey Fogel, Heather, Heather69, Heather Trax,
Heddy Seafield, Heidi van Wong, helmut.ginter, hepcat, high_pain_humper,
Hugh Himless, hymen.the.jew, Ishmeal Hafizi, itchy balls, Ivan Mctavish,
IvanaB, Jason, jeff.smiley, Jeff Szarka, jjwassermann, Joe Josephson, John,
John Shelton, John Smith, Jorge Jorgensen, jorge_shillingford, Jose Lopez,
juke_joint, kaptain kaput, Karel Olish, karen.bullfinch, Karen Hill, Karla
Snodgress, kathy_krantz, Kaylie Solomon, Kendra, Kenneth Downs, Kenny
Dugan, Kent Dorfman, Ken Johnson, Kim Coinop, Kinglen Wang, Kristen, kumba
killington, Kurt Janker, Kyle Cadet,  lafferty6, L Didio, Laura
Shillingford, Le Farter, Le Yammy, Leaking Onion, Leo Diaz, Les Cramer, Les
Turner, Les Walton, Leslie Bassman, Lilly, Lindy, linux.curious, Linux
Exposer, Lisa Shavas, Lisa Cottmann, Lois Hunt, Long,
long_tong_ling,  luisortizhome, Lukumi Babalu Aye, Luna Lane, Major Mynor,
Manny, Mario Fermin, McSwain, mista twista,Mogumbo, Moses, Mooshoo Bong
Singh, mr.macfeelme,  mycarisfast, (e-mail address removed),
nate_mcspook, Navid Shakibapour, okto_pussy, opensource.sucks, organ.creep,
OSS KDE User, Paddy McCrockett, Paul Wannamaker, Paris Marriot, Patricia,
Patrick Landrum, Patty LeGrange, patty pippins, Patty Poppins, percy
samson, Peter Gluckman, Peter Kohlmann, peter.traphagen, Phil, Phillip
Cornwall, phoung, phoung quoak, pickle_pete, Piss Clam, Poopy Pants
McGee, pus.boy99, pyles69, Quimby, Quinton Magee, Quizno Backer, Ray
Schitzmepantz, Reporter, Rich, Richard P. Johnson, Richie, Richie O'Toole,
Richie Spano, Robert Strunk, rothstein_ivan, Roy_Pestowitz,
Roy.Schakemetitz, Roy.Schavedmenutz, Roy.Schavesmewankz, Roy.Schitzowitz,
RP Modell, ryebra, Sally Vadi, Sammy, Sammy Whalen, Saul Goldblatt,
schavemetitz, Schestertitz, schestowizzle, schestowitz, schitzmepantz,
schisterwitz, Schlomo Smykowski, Sharon Cackle, Sharon Hubbasland, Sean,
Sean Fitzhenry, Sean Macpherson, Sewer Rat, sewer_clown, Shelly K.,
Sherlock Holmes, Schlomo Rabinowitz, Simon, Simon Lewis, simply.lisa,
Singer, sista sledgehammer, slacker.mcspritze, Spammy_Davis, spanny_davis,
Stefan Karstensen, Stephan Simonsen, Stephanie, Stephanie Mannerz, Stephen,
Stephen Olsen, Stephen Townshend, stomach.pump, SuckyB, Sue, sue quinterra,
sully1999, SunnyB, Susan, Susan Bladder, Susan Lapinski, Susan Wong, Suzi
Wong, Suzie Wong, Swampee, swing.cock, sylvano12tegriorgriach, Ted
Bennington, Terri Sorensen, Terry Porter, The Beaver, Thorsten, Thorsten
Thigpen, Timmy Luncford , Toby Rastus Roosovelt III, toe.mein, Tomas
Bicsak, tomas.bozak, Tomas Dunton, Tomas Lucatorto, Tori, Tori Wassermann,
Torre Stanslaand, Trace Dennison, Tracee, Traci, traci.alicock,
traci.pusey, Traci Spritzendrainer, trailerpark, Trina Swallows, Trolly,
Trudi Simpkins, Tryxie Lustern,  udayshankar29, Uday Shankar, victimizedb,
victimizedbyms, Vince Fontain, Vladimir Yepifano, Walter Bubniak, Wang
Mycock, Wasser, Waterskidoo, wendy, Wendy Duzz, Wendy Toiletwater, Whizzer,
Wilbur J, willy watkins jr, Willy Wong, wiltons_pypes, Winnie Septos,
wizard.shot, wm_walsh, Wobbles, wylbur.horseman, Yanick Schmuley and
zyklon_C.
Plus many, many, many more.
 
T

The Ghost In The Machine

In comp.os.linux.advocacy, (e-mail address removed)
<[email protected]>
wrote
We don't have to

He solved them himself.
He went back to Windows, which is what MOST people do when they
discover how poor Linux's support for hardware is.

There are of course many possible reasons for this.

[1] Windows hardware support is simply better. Actually,
it's not all that simple: hardware vendors know that
Windows is a more prevalent solution, therefore they focus
hardware driver development on it first. This sets up a
superregenerative cycle: Windows supports more hardware,
therefore more hardware supports Windows, therefore more
Windows, therefore Windows supports more hardware.

[2] Vendors aren't always as forthcoming as they should
be. The prime example is Creative Labs; their X1 sound
card series has no data, and no one within Creative Labs
appears willing to step up to the plate and write a driver.
If someone's willing, reverse-engineering might implement
partial functionality for such. If not...well...no support
for that hardware.

[3] The user hasn't done his homework. When buying a new
system, take heed.

[snip]
If the hardware doesn't work with Linux, it doesn't work and others,
who may NOT be trolls have discovered this hence the posts he finds
while scouring the net.

[snip]


Linux seems to be less about form and function and more about blaming
the user, the hardware or the color of the sky that day.

Indeed. Wherea$ Micro$oft Window$ Vi$ta i$ all about
making lot$ of money. That is more important in our
society today than ensuring that a solution actually works
for the end user, apparently.
 
S

spike1

(e-mail address removed) did eloquently scribble:
Translation: You can't solve his problems because Linux simply does
not work correctly.

What problems would those be?
The really vague things he never bothered to give any details about..?

My car stopped working, how do I fix it?
As for Linux being better than Windows it depends on what you mean by
better.
As a server?
Maybe.
As a desktop?
No way.
Way.

Look at it this way, Linux is FREE.
Windows is expensive...

Linux is free AND FREE. the FREE as in FREEDOM is the important bit.
You can buy boxed sets. I *HAVE* bought boxed sets. Very good value for
money if you like a nice well written hefty manual and CDs/DVDs.

Windows is overpriced. WAYYY overpriced.
People are willing to spend money for Windows and Windows upgrades
rather than use Linux for FREE.

Because they don't know any better. Or they get it with their PC.
Microsoft isn't a software company. It's a marketting company.
(They probably spent more money in promoting vista than they did actually
developing it)
That sure says a lot when you can't even give something away.

Ah that old chestnut, come up with something new.
Anyone who uses that phrase is automatically a wintroll.
It's like a catchphrase.
--
______________________________________________________________________________
| (e-mail address removed) | |
|Andrew Halliwell BSc(hons)| "The day Microsoft makes something that doesn't |
| in | suck is probably the day they start making |
| Computer science | vacuum cleaners" - Ernst Jan Plugge |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
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S

spike1

(e-mail address removed) did eloquently scribble:
He solved them himself.
He went back to Windows, which is what MOST people do when they
discover how poor Linux's support for hardware is.

Tell you one thing then...

If linux hardware support is poor... Windows support must be positively
abysmal. Linux supports the vast majority of hardware OUT OF THE BOX.

No "hardware driver" CD or download neccesary.
OK, you may occasionally wish to download a driver to gain extra
functionality...

--
______________________________________________________________________________
| (e-mail address removed) | |
|Andrew Halliwell BSc(hons)| "ARSE! GERLS!! DRINK! DRINK! DRINK!!!" |
| in | "THAT WOULD BE AN ECUMENICAL MATTER!...FECK!!!! |
| Computer Science | - Father Jack in "Father Ted" |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 

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