BOYCOTT WIN LIVEMAIL!

G

Gary VanderMolen

Do you feel better now that you got all that off your chest? :)

You are misinformed about Windows Live Mail. If you want, you
can use it in a fashion where it is totally unaware of the web,
just like Windows Mail.

--
Gary VanderMolen, MS-MVP (Mail)


JapanJews on Mars said:
Live mail is dreadful & seems designed for kids. For a business user we
don't want to share everything, so there is nothing like Outlook Express".
Windows mail was a poor copy of that & now I also have resorted to using
Outlook as my mail program. But its not so good also!
I find Microsoft barely listen to their users, and force people who are
already happy with a platform, into something new. This is their obnoxious
attitude within the Industry, and one of the reasons other software
manufacturers are up in arms about them!
Vista was a failure, but every laptop manufacturer was forced to use it. I
feel WIN 7 (if its a success) should be offered free to all Vista customers
as compensation for being part of a 2 years failed experiment! Or should I
say, guinea-pigs for WIN 7.
Bring back a decent mail program. I would also like to see Quick Launch.
Copying Apple sucks!!

The removal of OE is one of the stupidest decisions in a torrent of stupid
decisions that started with the design of Vista in 2005/6.
Two problems:
1. the people making these decisions are too young to know anything, thus
they make endless blunders now matter how high their IQs.
2. Microsoft has decided to push this "Live" ____ as the next big thing.
Who cares if my "Live" mail will hook up with my web email accounts. I have
them separate, on the web, for a reason. OE has been fiine for me; it's
easy, it looks okay, it's fast enough, and if I need more advanced features
I can run Agent.
So now it looks like Thunderbird. I've pretty much given up Int. Explorer,
except for MSFT sites that they will not make compatible with FireFox. I
will check out IncrediMail and whatever is on the Windows 7 site....


I'm another of those complainers about the lack of Outlook Express. I have
Windows 7 RC installed on another computer, and I tried the Windows Live
Mail. I have to say that I want my Outlook Express back! Windows Live Mail
is a poor substitute, and I do not understand why Microsoft would remove an
application that works perfectly well for millions of home users. The old
adage, "If it ain't broke, don't fix it," would appear to apply here. Did
anyone at Microsft consult users before making this change? What legitimate
rationale could Microsoft possibly have for trying to force a move to
Windows Live Mail?
If I go to Windows 7 (released version) in the future, I certainly will not
be using the Windows Live Mail. I will be using Thunderbird or another
non-web based client.

Sure, it may be fine for me because I have to tell my corporate clients that
it is going to cost them $x-amount-of-thousands-more for my extra time
getting things working, so I end up making a lot more money on the deal, but
in many cases that just means that they decide to either not upgrade or
change to another vendor.
For security reasons the workstations are all tied down tight, and don't
allow the users to install or run anything like Live, Messenger, etc.
The MS Live system goes against this type of business setup.
Trust me, it's not going to be as easy as just downloading Live Mail and
everything will be just fine...
Livemail is


I have the same problem about not having a mail program installed in
windows.
I have tried Windows live mail on my vista... It totally [F] everything up.
And I need to use a signature in some of the e-mails I am sending because of
my work from my home.
I think I will stay with Windows Vista... I don't want to pay a lot of money
for something that is a waste of time.
It is bad enough that there is a law about the browser... which I also just
need to copy to a cd before I install the final version of Windows 7!!!
 
J

JapanJews on Mars

Live mail is dreadful & seems designed for kids. For a business user we
don't want to share everything, so there is nothing like Outlook Express".
Windows mail was a poor copy of that & now I also have resorted to using
Outlook as my mail program. But its not so good also!
I find Microsoft barely listen to their users, and force people who are
already happy with a platform, into something new. This is their obnoxious
attitude within the Industry, and one of the reasons other software
manufacturers are up in arms about them!
Vista was a failure, but every laptop manufacturer was forced to use it. I
feel WIN 7 (if its a success) should be offered free to all Vista customers
as compensation for being part of a 2 years failed experiment! Or should I
say, guinea-pigs for WIN 7.
Bring back a decent mail program. I would also like to see Quick Launch.
Copying Apple sucks!!

The removal of OE is one of the stupidest decisions in a torrent of stupid
decisions that started with the design of Vista in 2005/6.
Two problems:
1. the people making these decisions are too young to know anything, thus
they make endless blunders now matter how high their IQs.
2. Microsoft has decided to push this "Live" ____ as the next big thing.
Who cares if my "Live" mail will hook up with my web email accounts. I have
them separate, on the web, for a reason. OE has been fiine for me; it's
easy, it looks okay, it's fast enough, and if I need more advanced features
I can run Agent.
So now it looks like Thunderbird. I've pretty much given up Int. Explorer,
except for MSFT sites that they will not make compatible with FireFox. I
will check out IncrediMail and whatever is on the Windows 7 site....


I'm another of those complainers about the lack of Outlook Express. I have
Windows 7 RC installed on another computer, and I tried the Windows Live
Mail. I have to say that I want my Outlook Express back! Windows Live Mail
is a poor substitute, and I do not understand why Microsoft would remove an
application that works perfectly well for millions of home users. The old
adage, "If it ain't broke, don't fix it," would appear to apply here. Did
anyone at Microsft consult users before making this change? What legitimate
rationale could Microsoft possibly have for trying to force a move to
Windows Live Mail?
If I go to Windows 7 (released version) in the future, I certainly will not
be using the Windows Live Mail. I will be using Thunderbird or another
non-web based client.

Sure, it may be fine for me because I have to tell my corporate clients that
it is going to cost them $x-amount-of-thousands-more for my extra time
getting things working, so I end up making a lot more money on the deal, but
in many cases that just means that they decide to either not upgrade or
change to another vendor.
For security reasons the workstations are all tied down tight, and don't
allow the users to install or run anything like Live, Messenger, etc.
The MS Live system goes against this type of business setup.
Trust me, it's not going to be as easy as just downloading Live Mail and
everything will be just fine...
Livemail is


I have the same problem about not having a mail program installed in
windows.
I have tried Windows live mail on my vista... It totally [F] everything up.
And I need to use a signature in some of the e-mails I am sending because of
my work from my home.
I think I will stay with Windows Vista... I don't want to pay a lot of money
for something that is a waste of time.
It is bad enough that there is a law about the browser... which I also just
need to copy to a cd before I install the final version of Windows 7!!!
 
J

JapanJews on Mars

I use Outlook Express about a decade by now, as a major personal e-mail
client of mine!

To be absolutely honest, all my most private and business e-mails are
archived in it, in all this decade. Well, not all of them, quite
occasionally I erase funny attachments, stuff that use most of the size of
this e-mail database of mine... :)

So, in a decade I accumulate some 700MB of the cumulative e-mail database!

- Yes, Outlook Express is still surprisingly fast, believe me or not, well,
I still did not rich 2GB size limit problem... :)

- And I had newer ever have problems with it, corrupt e-mail database, or
any similar!!!

- And I know that someone will be shocked with this of my testimony and size
now!!! :)



But, I attend and want that my important and very personal e-mails be
offline, and not on some XY Server in some XY country.

Call me paranoid about "Big Brother", call me old fashion, call me ignorant
about data safety and advances known today about keeping e-mails on some
Secure double HDD safe-backuped Server far, far away, but, disregard
everything, I regularly, one time in a month, backup my e-mails on my PC,
and I still want to do that on this way...



Disregard everything that I wrote...

First in Win Vista you stripped from Windows Mail the "Contacts Layout" -
even that was catastrophic enough - it crippled me and slower me by 50% all
this time till today!

Than you offered the more crippled gadget for this kind of purpose, which
was very bad actually - for e.g., I do not like the idea, that, just
everybody can see just every time at my screen, in any place that I travel /
go with my laptop, a personal names of my friends, collages, etc..., in a
direct gadget over my Screen, and second, well, this gadget limit size by
80% of our Contacts on the screen...



Now, when I finally though that Windows 7 will finally clean puberty
escapades of Microsoft software developers that eat to much sugar and
implode in their excessive art gift nature, you brink the No more MS
Outlook Express / MS Windows Mail - the MS WLM or MS Outlook rulez ONLY, at
least concerning our Software products directly!!! :(



I mean, what will be next that you will strip that we use for years by now!?



Well, people sometimes like changes in IT, but, as long you do not use their
conformity and took again the precious time for learning, work with
something that works flawlessly for years / decade by now. - instead of
that, give the possibility to have the previous way of doing things, and
newest way, so let them to decide at their end computer just every single
time with your finished product - The OS. Do not took them a leg, instead of
that, let them to decide whether they will walk still with two of them, or
even more of them! :)

Also, I know that it is not a theme here to talking about that, but, the
some "drawing" Wallpapers (newly named officially as "Backgrounds"), that
you deploy with Win7 RC is, honestly, offal. - Those "plastic babies" for
e.g. are even scary for some children!

This art expression backgrounds in generally are a little bit odd in fact...

Question for Microsoft workers - I presume that some of this backgrounds is
made for children, well, do any Microsoft worker have a child actually?

Go put your young child over Desktop to see those expressionist Backgrounds.

Some will be scared for sure...

Or we live in a new age that the more "sweeter" tone of picture, Tom & Jerry
kind of design and similar is vanished for good from the face of the
Earth...?

- Soon enough, this kind of stuff that put all us on our legs from our
cradles in all our childhoods actually, will not be good for our children
anymore, we have now the whole new stuff to show them and learn, certainly
more aggressive one, or a little bit more sicky to cherish their little
young and loving minds - whoa', maybe we will certainly have more chance and
opportunity to create a future little criminal mind over this world... :)



And, to come back via Windows 7...

Finally, now the Windows Explorer looks much better than in Windows Vista.

Do not get me wrong, the Windows Explorer in Windows Vista comes with some
good ideas, but, some main things were totally slowed users in generally.

- Finally we have arrows again to go Backward-Forward, furthermore, finally
I see the main HDD or Partition letters more clearly and handy, and last,
when I want that all my folders via my PC have a View-List, he will not
change that ever by himself autonomously (Vista always change that, after
few days, as Vista like it, and not as user like it, no matter what you do,
press, set about that option, etc.)

And last two cherries on the top about Windows Explorer in Vista: When you
work with folders or files with very long names, if you do not put Windows
Explorer window on max. size, well, quite often the whole files (with that
long names), in some folders, simply vanished from the screen, but appeared
again really OK, the moment when you resize the Windows Explorer window to
more in it size...

Than the Windows Explorer forcing "beauty" that every time forces files to
be automatically in alphabetically order, when I put some file in some
folder, he automatically and instantly, no matter what, put this file right
into alphabetical order, but, sometimes I do not want that he do that just
momentarily / instantly / automatically, as long I go out from that folder,
and go back in it, then he normally rearrange everything into nice
Alphabetical order...



And, of course, the so bitter subject, the almighty and bad voiced, his
kingdom, the Administrator Account in Vista.

- Ok, he is deactivate by default because a security reason, because users
repeatedly forget to put a strong password on it, because, it is a generally
a security issue by it self..

- But, when, and if you, for some reason, finally activate it back, why
users must see the Admin Account Name via normal & regular Login window,
just every single time when they open their Computer?!

I mean, they know which persona maintain their PC, their know who is their
Admin, but why you forcing them to look some stupid name of their
Administrator on the Screen just every single time when they engage their
Computers, why Admin Account cannot have the option, if he is really
activated, to be seen only in Vista / Win7 Safe Mode!?

This is old stuff, this we all have in MSWinXP OS totally legally
legitimately!

This was great and such a self-explanatory option. And you ruin it, well, at
least if Vista is not in some Corporate Network surroundings. :(



And finally, well, I like Windows 7 in generally, it is much better than
Vista!



But, the Outlook Express / Windows Mail is the major mistake to remove it,
and than you will getting it back for 2-3 years, forcing all us that we will
buy next version of Windows to get back something that we previously have
already for years and pay for it, even repeatedly in already numerous
Windows OS versions, from past till now.

And I really and unfortunately believe in nightmare, that you will really
and finally launched Window 7 without it, and than put it back for 2-3
years, by some SP maybe, or, like I say it already, in a first version of
Windows OS that will follow after Windows 7 - as the users will demanding it
for sure!

- My question is why removing it in the first place?

- Why you do not let your users to decide whether they want to use online
version - the MS VLM, or the same offline way MS OE/MS WM client, like all
this years?

- Why you want to make again the "warm water" with something that works
flawlessly for years, and why now, when you finally reached security level
on stable and nice hold with it?!

This all "eradically" changes are so dreadfully, torture and headache for
your users, and, if you remind me again with inevitable migration of e-mail
database, I want to shut my head...



Nevertheless, I am experienced user; I work via IT field for years by now,
just, go ask some average user about e-mails.

- Backup, transferring, migration, and, you believe that, disregard all
that, they will be happy to keep their most personal e-mails stuff on some
distant Server via MS WLM?

- Yes, people use their GMails, yes, people use the Yahoo Mails and
similar - yes, they are all based via some distant Server to keep such an
e-mails of them, but for totally personal or even business e-mails, I think
that they will rather keep all that, still and totally in old fashion way
offline, in their very own computers, and still do Backup of it of their
own, or with help of more experienced IT users, if they do not know how to
perform a Backup of it, or similar. Period.



And you will say, use MS Outlook instead, or some third party e-mail client.

There are plenty enough over market.

- Which part of the story you did not understand, people like the way they
do things for years.

Don't you think that for that kind of purpose - to just eliminate MS OE/MS
WM of the face of Win OS, you need to scribe, even some Referendum as much
Referendum in the real government! :)

I think that MS OE/MS WM is much important for many MS Win User people over
Globe, and that this fact deserve really respect even by you in MS, than to
just decide that they will instantly be vanished by some temporally glitch
or judgment eradicated opinion by some higher stuff personnel and his brain,
directly in Microsoft.



What's next on my opinion...

The Windows Vista Start Orb is much nicer for me than the new Windows 7
Start Orb - I do not know why, maybe because Windows 7 has to excessive
bright-pastel-bleached colors, but, this is just a cosmetic issue and
private opinion of my own all here, many will like it... :)

~ Best regards to all!!!
 
P

PA Bear [MS MVP]

[Wanna know what's really scary? Someone either attending or teaching at
City College of NY - Law School who's so badly misinformed and whose
computer is not fully patched & has an incorrect time-zone setting!]
Live mail is dreadful & seems designed for kids. For a business user we
don't want to share everything, so there is nothing like Outlook Express".
Windows mail was a poor copy of that & now I also have resorted to using
Outlook as my mail program. But its not so good also!
I find Microsoft barely listen to their users, and force people who are
already happy with a platform, into something new. This is their
obnoxious
attitude within the Industry, and one of the reasons other software
manufacturers are up in arms about them!
Vista was a failure, but every laptop manufacturer was forced to use it.
I
feel WIN 7 (if its a success) should be offered free to all Vista
customers
as compensation for being part of a 2 years failed experiment! Or should
I
say, guinea-pigs for WIN 7.
Bring back a decent mail program. I would also like to see Quick Launch.
Copying Apple sucks!!

The removal of OE is one of the stupidest decisions in a torrent of stupid
decisions that started with the design of Vista in 2005/6.
Two problems:
1. the people making these decisions are too young to know anything, thus
they make endless blunders now matter how high their IQs.
2. Microsoft has decided to push this "Live" ____ as the next big thing.
Who cares if my "Live" mail will hook up with my web email accounts. I
have
them separate, on the web, for a reason. OE has been fiine for me; it's
easy, it looks okay, it's fast enough, and if I need more advanced
features
I can run Agent.
So now it looks like Thunderbird. I've pretty much given up Int.
Explorer,
except for MSFT sites that they will not make compatible with FireFox. I
will check out IncrediMail and whatever is on the Windows 7 site....


I'm another of those complainers about the lack of Outlook Express. I
have
Windows 7 RC installed on another computer, and I tried the Windows Live
Mail. I have to say that I want my Outlook Express back! Windows Live
Mail
is a poor substitute, and I do not understand why Microsoft would remove
an
application that works perfectly well for millions of home users. The old
adage, "If it ain't broke, don't fix it," would appear to apply here. Did
anyone at Microsft consult users before making this change? What
legitimate
rationale could Microsoft possibly have for trying to force a move to
Windows Live Mail?
If I go to Windows 7 (released version) in the future, I certainly will
not
be using the Windows Live Mail. I will be using Thunderbird or another
non-web based client.

Sure, it may be fine for me because I have to tell my corporate clients
that
it is going to cost them $x-amount-of-thousands-more for my extra time
getting things working, so I end up making a lot more money on the deal,
but
in many cases that just means that they decide to either not upgrade or
change to another vendor.
For security reasons the workstations are all tied down tight, and don't
allow the users to install or run anything like Live, Messenger, etc.
The MS Live system goes against this type of business setup.
Trust me, it's not going to be as easy as just downloading Live Mail and
everything will be just fine...
Livemail is


I have the same problem about not having a mail program installed in
windows.
I have tried Windows live mail on my vista... It totally [F] everything
up.
And I need to use a signature in some of the e-mails I am sending because
of
my work from my home.
I think I will stay with Windows Vista... I don't want to pay a lot of
money
for something that is a waste of time.
It is bad enough that there is a law about the browser... which I also
just
need to copy to a cd before I install the final version of Windows 7!!!
 
N

N. Miller

Live mail is dreadful & seems designed for kids. For a business user we
don't want to share everything, so there is nothing like Outlook Express".

Sure there is: Mozilla Thunderbird, Pegasus Mail, Eudora, Forté Agent, The
Bat!, and more.
Windows mail was a poor copy of that & now I also have resorted to using
Outlook as my mail program. But its not so good also!

MS Outlook was intentionally designed to work in an enterprise environment,
unlike the free applications. If you don't find Outlook to be so good, maybe
you don't really know what you want at all?
I find Microsoft barely listen to their users, and force people who are
already happy with a platform, into something new. This is their obnoxious
attitude within the Industry ...

Microsoft is not alone in that regard. Most auto manufacturers are very
similar in that regard.
The removal of OE is one of the stupidest decisions in a torrent of stupid
decisions ...

MS Outlook Express is a dog of a program; delicate and broken at the same
time. Dumping was the smartest move MS could have made.
Who cares if my "Live" mail will hook up with my web email accounts. I have
them separate, on the web, for a reason.

Eh? MS Outlook Express is able to "hook up with web email accounts"! I have
MSOE accessing a Hotmail account through WebDAV (good through August 31,
2009, anyway). OTOH, you don't have to set up Windows Live Mail to "hook up
with web email accounts". If you don't set WLMail up that way, it works just
like any other desktop email client.
OE has been fiine for me; it's easy, it looks okay, it's fast enough, and if
I need more advanced features I can run Agent.

And my grandfather liked his Model T Ford. It was easy, looked okay, and was
fast enough for him.
So now it looks like Thunderbird. I've pretty much given up Int. Explorer,
except for MSFT sites that they will not make compatible with FireFox. I
will check out IncrediMail and whatever is on the Windows 7 site....

Incredimail? Incredible. Talk about a dog of an email program. Don't do it.
Please.
I'm another of those complainers about the lack of Outlook Express.

I am not. I used to complain about it, but finally did something about it.
Eight years ago. Switched to using Pegasus Mail, and never looked back.
I have Windows 7 RC installed on another computer, and I tried the Windows Live
Mail. I have to say that I want my Outlook Express back! Windows Live Mail
is a poor substitute, and I do not understand why Microsoft would remove an
application that works perfectly well for millions of home users. The old
adage, "If it ain't broke, don't fix it," would appear to apply here.

Not. MS Outlook Express was seriously broken, right out of the box. I gave
up on it eight years ago.
What legitimate rationale could Microsoft possibly have for trying to force a
move to Windows Live Mail?

"Cloud" computing. More people are web-oriented than ever; it is the wave of
the future. Google, Yahoo!, Windows Live ... everything is going to be on
the web; and, some day, you will only be able to get "thin clients",
hardware with hardly any local storage, because nobody will want it. Except
for a handful of old geeks willing to pay for it.
If I go to Windows 7 (released version) in the future, I certainly will not
be using the Windows Live Mail. I will be using Thunderbird or another
non-web based client.

News flash! Windows Live Mail is not a "web-based client"!

You may know law better than the average geek, but you surely know less than
nothing about computers.
 
P

PA Bear [MS-MVP]

Who are you and what have you done with the oh-so-tastefully named
JapanJews on Mars?
 
P

PA Bear [MS MVP]

But you're not using WLMail, you're using WinMail. If you got that box
fully patched & were running the current version of WLMail (i.e.,
v14.0.8064.0206; 12 Feb-09), you just might find that WLMail doesn't suck
eggs?

You'll find support for Windows Live Mail (WLMail) in this public newsgroup:
microsoft.public.windows.live.mail.desktop (and not
microsoft.public.windows.live.photogallery):

Via the web-interface:
http://www.microsoft.com/communitie...dg=microsoft.public.windows.live.mail.desktop

Via your newsreader:
news://msnews.microsoft.com/microsoft.public.windows.live.mail.desktop

PS: WLMail (as well as WinMail and OE) was never intended for Enterprise,
d00d, but MS Outlook was and still is.
 

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