Boot failure on first attempt

[BrianF]

I am finding that my computer is refusing to boot into Windows XP first
thing every morning at the first switch on but will start on the second or
third attempt. If I go into the bios during one of these failures, I see
that it is unable to auto detect the hard disks. However, the HD light is on
and the CD and floppy lights are flashing.
Can anyone suggest what might be going wrong?

brianf

 

[Newbie Coder]

Brian,

When you say the HDD light is on is that constantly?

In the event logs what does it say? Of course read/write errors, but what
else that is pointing to this problem?

Where does it hang on first boot, BIOS screen?

 

[Noncompliant]

You said hard disks, as in more than one, plural. Disconnect all but the
hard drive with the windows partition. Any positive difference?
Probably power supply problem if so.

 

[Pop]

I am finding that my computer is refusing to boot into Windows XP first
thing every morning at the first switch on but will start on the second or
third attempt. If I go into the bios during one of these failures, I see
that it is unable to auto detect the hard disks. However, the HD light is on
and the CD and floppy lights are flashing.
Can anyone suggest what might be going wrong?

brianf

How old is the Hard Drive?

It sounds like it is slow to come ready. It might be wise to get a new drive a and prepare for replacement. Many
people never get a warning.

Pop

 

[Malke]

I am finding that my computer is refusing to boot into Windows XP first
thing every morning at the first switch on but will start on the second or
third attempt. If I go into the bios during one of these failures, I see
that it is unable to auto detect the hard disks. However, the HD light is on
and the CD and floppy lights are flashing.
Can anyone suggest what might be going wrong?

brianf

Definitely hardware failure and nothing to do with the operating system.
I would start by swapping out the power supply for a known-working one
since your symptoms are classic ones indicating a failing psu.

Here are general hardware troubleshooting steps:
http://www.elephantboycomputers.com/page2.html#Hardware_Tshoot


Malke

 

[BrianF]

Brian,

When you say the HDD light is on is that constantly? Yes

In the event logs what does it say? Of course read/write errors, but what
else that is pointing to this problem? Nothing because Windows does not
get involved at that point.

Where does it hang on first boot, BIOS screen? Yes. If I leave it too
long, the Del key will not even operate so re-powering is the only way
out.

brianf

 

[BrianF]

You said hard disks, as in more than one, plural. Disconnect all but the
hard drive with the windows partition. Any positive difference?
Probably power supply problem if so.

Yes, I do have a second HD and I added an external HD last weekend.
I did have a situation the previous weekend in which the PC would not boot
due to the fact that I had compressed all data on the slave (data backup)
drive without realising that the machine was booting from that drive - even
though Windows is on the master.
I only discovered that when I went in Recovery Console and saw that the
drive letters were all different to those displayed in Windows.
The machine is now booting (when it does) from the C: drive (master) but it
looks as though the bios has now developed problems.

brianf

 

[BrianF]

How old is the Hard Drive?

It sounds like it is slow to come ready. It might be wise to get a new
drive a and prepare for replacement. Many people never get a warning.

Both HDs are two years old, Maxtor 80GB master and 20GB slave. I have run
PowerMax and ChkDsk on them both and they passed without any sign of
trouble.

brianf

 

[BrianF]

Definitely hardware failure and nothing to do with the operating system. I
would start by swapping out the power supply for a known-working one since
your symptoms are classic ones indicating a failing psu.

I must admit that I was also leaning towards a PS failure. Unfortunately I
don't have a spare but I had better get one.

brianf

 

[Noncompliant]

Yes, I do have a second HD and I added an external HD last weekend.
I did have a situation the previous weekend in which the PC would not boot
due to the fact that I had compressed all data on the slave (data backup)
drive without realising that the machine was booting from that drive -
even though Windows is on the master.
I only discovered that when I went in Recovery Console and saw that the
drive letters were all different to those displayed in Windows.
The machine is now booting (when it does) from the C: drive (master) but
it looks as though the bios has now developed problems.

brianf

Ho-hum.
You said hard disks, as in more than one, plural. Disconnect all but the
hard drive with the windows partition. Any positive difference?
Probably power supply problem if so.

 

[w_tom]

I must admit that I was also leaning towards a PS failure. Unfortunately I
don't have a spare but I had better get one.

Well if it was a power supply problem, then you can identify it in
but two minutes without disconnecting anything. Boot the machine and
execute programs that access all peripheral simultaneously
(multitask). Now use a 3.5 digit multimeter to read voltages on any
one of red, orange, purple, and yellow wires from power supply to
motherboard. Each voltage must read above 3.23, 4.87, and 11.7 volts
accordingly. It the power supply is reason for bad startup, then
those voltages are too low during this test.

Also measure gray wire as power is turned on. That voltage must
rise well above 2.4 volts in the first second. When computer first
does not boot, does that voltage delay? Gray wire is part of a
communication system between the many parts of a power supply
'system'. Others have assumed the entire power supply system is only
the power supply. Better is to see the failure before shotgunning
with new parts.

If voltages are OK, then move on to other suspects.

Of course, what is seen in system (event) logs? This is where
problems are identified, stored, and the OS circumvents those
problems. Therefore problems can be addressed at your leisure. Are
problems listed in that log?

Long before fixing anything, first collect facts.

Meanwhile, a second hard drive can interfere with the first one
during boot - just to complicate the analysis a little.

 

[BrianF]

Well if it was a power supply problem, then you can identify it in
but two minutes without disconnecting anything. Boot the machine and
execute programs that access all peripheral simultaneously
(multitask). Now use a 3.5 digit multimeter to read voltages on any
one of red, orange, purple, and yellow wires from power supply to
motherboard. Each voltage must read above 3.23, 4.87, and 11.7 volts
accordingly. It the power supply is reason for bad startup, then
those voltages are too low during this test.

Also measure gray wire as power is turned on. That voltage must
rise well above 2.4 volts in the first second. When computer first
does not boot, does that voltage delay? Gray wire is part of a
communication system between the many parts of a power supply
'system'. Others have assumed the entire power supply system is only
the power supply. Better is to see the failure before shotgunning
with new parts.

If voltages are OK, then move on to other suspects.

Of course, what is seen in system (event) logs? This is where
problems are identified, stored, and the OS circumvents those
problems. Therefore problems can be addressed at your leisure. Are
problems listed in that log?

Long before fixing anything, first collect facts.

Meanwhile, a second hard drive can interfere with the first one
during boot - just to complicate the analysis a little.

Fortunately, I was able to borrow a PSU and that confirmed your suggestion.
I bought a new unit and installed it today.
The interesting thing is that, In the Phoenix bios health check, all the
voltages on the new unit are marginally lower than those of the original. I
guess there is one or more leaky capacitor in the original that was making
it difficult to delivery adequate current to start the drives until it had
been powered up for a few minutes.
Thanks for pointing me in the right direction.

brianf

 

[w_tom]

The interesting thing is that, In the Phoenix bios health check, all the
voltages on the new unit are marginally lower than those of the original.

The health check is a monitor. Its purpose is to detect change.
IOW calibrate it with the 3.5 digit multimeter. Then use numbers
provided previously at trip points for that monitor.

Do not use the Phoenix bios health check for voltage measurements
until it is first calibrated.