BIOS Flashing Fears....

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Toscarelli

Of course the worst I always anticipate.

I was advised by tech I should consider Flashing Bios Of a Dell Dimension
8200 w/ XP Pro.

I now have the current Bios Rev from Dell, A09

I forgot what's on the computer now, I think A07

Should I do this as is with the Flash, or go Linear, first flashing A08,
then A09?

I fear the compuiter will lock up and I will have nothing to rollback on.

Thanks,

mt
 
In
Toscarelli said:
Of course the worst I always anticipate.

I was advised by tech I should consider Flashing Bios Of a Dell
Dimension 8200 w/ XP Pro.

I now have the current Bios Rev from Dell, A09

I forgot what's on the computer now, I think A07

Should I do this as is with the Flash, or go Linear, first flashing
A08, then A09?

I fear the compuiter will lock up and I will have nothing to rollback
on.

Thanks,

mt
Click to expand...

Do a backup of your entire system to an external hard drive or something.
You can use NTBackup, or imaging software such as Acronis or Ghost, or
simply back up your data. It's your choice. You should be doing these
regularly anyway.

That said, there's no need to do an incremental BIOS update - A09 will
include whatever was in A08. It's good to be cautious, but this is likely to
go very well, and you'll have backups anyway (of course!) ....and even if
you didn't, a BIOS update is not going to hose your hard drive.
 
You should be afraid of flashing the bios.

If there is a valid reason to do it, you should prepare first.

If you don't have one, purchase an uninterruptible power supply (about
$75-80 for an inexpensive one) as you should have a very dependable power
supply and landline power isn't that dependable. If power fails during the
minute or so that the flash requires, the computer will not work again
without replacing the chip that you were flashing.

Next, create the boot floppy disk as directed and then follow the directions
given by Dell. Flashes can be successfully performed and I have done so on
many Dell machines (I personally own an older 8100 model.) Normally goes
without problems IF you have a good power supply but with Murphy's law (that
which can go wrong will) without the good power supply power will fail at
exactly the wrong time.
 
BIOS is an acronym for basic input/output system. The BIOS
is built-in software that determines what a computer can do
without accessing programs from a disk. On PCs, the BIOS
contains all the code required to control the keyboard,
display screen, disk drives, serial communications, and a
number of miscellaneous functions.

When u flash u replace all machine instructions in BIOS. So
if the flash is bad & part of what is bad means u cant
access/update BIOS u r SOL. ( mobo may have a jumper to get
back to v01 but that is way deep in mobo manual)

See http://www.bootdisk.com/bios.htm to which I would add:
Always use BRAND NEW MEDIA (floppies) & Bios's upgrades are
best had from the company that made your motherboard & they
do respond to ur email if u grovel enuf :) I did it 1x with
EE hardware specialist looking on.

Imaging OS does NOT include BIOS but you could transfer OS
to exact twin of your PC.

GL
HTH-Larry

Of course the worst I always anticipate.

I was advised by tech I should consider Flashing Bios Of a Dell Dimension
8200 w/ XP Pro.

I now have the current Bios Rev from Dell, A09

I forgot what's on the computer now, I think A07

Should I do this as is with the Flash, or go Linear, first flashing A08,
then A09?

I fear the compuiter will lock up and I will have nothing to rollback on.

Thanks,

mt
Click to expand...


Any advise given is my attempt to show appreciation for all
the excellent help I've received here but I'm no MVP so it
may only apply NUGS (Normally, Usually, Generally, Sometimes :)
 
Hi mt,

Only flash the BIOS if you have a legitimate reason to do so, i.e. it
provides some functionality you are lacking now. I applaud you for your
trepidation, as it is *not* something to be taken lightly. Flashing the
BIOS will not harm the hd as another respondent said--but it can, in the
case of a power interruption or similar, render your BIOS unusable, and
therefore your computer.
 
Toscarelli said:
Of course the worst I always anticipate.

I was advised by tech I should consider Flashing Bios Of a Dell Dimension
8200 w/ XP Pro.

I now have the current Bios Rev from Dell, A09

I forgot what's on the computer now, I think A07

Should I do this as is with the Flash, or go Linear, first flashing A08,
then A09?

I fear the compuiter will lock up and I will have nothing to rollback on.

Thanks,

mt
Click to expand...

Dell is one of the most painless brands of computer to flash. Go
straight to A09.

Worst case scenerio is power loss during flash, OR bad RAM. It would be
advisable to run a test with memtest86+ to verify your RAM is OK. Also
a UPS is advisable.

IF the flashing fails, DO NOT PANIC, your computer may well still be
bootable. Attempt the flash once more. If it fails again, Contact DELL
and request Replacement motherboard. Or see about having them replace
your BIOS chip (I think the chip in dell comps is soldered on)
Whichever turns out to be cheapest.

I have YET to see a DELL have a failed bios flash. They are very good
about making sure you got the right bios for your motherboard.
 
Toscarelli said:
Of course the worst I always anticipate.

I was advised by tech I should consider Flashing Bios Of a Dell Dimension
8200 w/ XP Pro.

I now have the current Bios Rev from Dell, A09

I forgot what's on the computer now, I think A07

Should I do this as is with the Flash, or go Linear, first flashing A08,
then A09?

I fear the compuiter will lock up and I will have nothing to rollback on.

Thanks,

mt
Click to expand...

http://support.dell.com/support/edocs/systems/dim8200/

It makes no difference if you incorporate sequential bios upgrades, or jump
to the one you want. All is overwritten with each flash. Nothing is
carried over from the prior flash.

If the bios chip is soldered in place, I wouldn't do it. Rollback is only
possible if you have dual bios chips onboard.
 
Wow, what planet are you from? Don't look now but your egocentricity and
ignorance are showing.
You should be afraid of flashing the bios.
Click to expand...

Wrong. Knowledge is power, which you appear to be short on.
If there is a valid reason to do it, you should prepare first.
Click to expand...

Of course, just as you should prepare first for eating a mean, going to bed,
taking a shower, installing a program, or flashing a BIOS. It's simply
something not done very often becasue it's not needed very often, but it's
nothing to fear.
If you don't have one, purchase an uninterruptible power supply (about
$75-80 for an inexpensive one) as you should have a very dependable
power supply and landline power isn't that dependable. If power
fails during the minute or so that the flash requires, the computer
will not work again without replacing the chip that you were flashing.
Click to expand...

Flashing a BIOS chip is so fast and reliable that this, as good and useful
as a UPS is, just isn't necessary. If one is paranoid about it, then don't
do it on stormy days or when traffic is heavy. If your ac power is normally
reliable, there is no reason for it not to be reliable for the few seconds
it takes to flash a BIOS.
Even if you are one of the one in many millions that has a power glitch
longer than the hold-over time of your PSU, it's still possible to flash the
BIOS and get going again; it IS an inconvenience, but ... highly unlikely.
A UPS is valuable and useful but don't buy one just to flash BIOS unless
you have lots of money to spend, in which case you probably already have
one.
Next, create the boot floppy disk as directed and then follow the
directions given by Dell. Flashes can be successfully performed and
I have done so on many Dell machines (I personally own an older 8100
model.) Normally goes without problems IF you have a good power
supply but with Murphy's law (that which can go wrong will) without
the good power supply power will fail at exactly the wrong time.
Click to expand...

I'll bet I've flashed a lot more machines than you have and even in this
unreliable, totally above ground rural power grid, there has never been an
interruption occur during the flashing. You're fear-mongering without good
cause here. To mentione these things as a good thing to have and why is one
thing but to initmate that they are a MUST is just plain silly.

Your presentation leaves a LOT to be desired.

At least you were right about the non-progressive flashing need.
 
Jonny said:
http://support.dell.com/support/edocs/systems/dim8200/

It makes no difference if you incorporate sequential bios upgrades,
or jump to the one you want. All is overwritten with each flash. Nothing
is carried over from the prior flash.

If the bios chip is soldered in place, I wouldn't do it. Rollback is
only possible if you have dual bios chips onboard.
Click to expand...

You say that wihtout even knowing what the reason for the tech telling the
OP to flash is? Guess you're a mind reader?
 
And how many times have people, who are amateurs as this person obviously
is, written and asked about this very subject. I have seen a failed bios
flash in the past simply because someone had plugged the computer into a
light switch outlet and when they hit the enter key they left the room,
turned out the light as they left. This failed flash rendered the computer
incapable of booting from a floppy, CD or hard drive which effectively
created a paper weight until another motherboard could be obtained. Dell at
this time, I believe, doesn't provide the motherboard replacement for the
8200 anymore as this system is now about 4 years old IIRC.

People do stupid things. I was trying to "scare" the OP into making sure
everything was right before the flash was accomplished. If the OP didn't
feel comfortable in doing the flash I would hope that the OP would then seek
local professional help.
 
Now, you have "belittled" two people for trying to help. Where is your
complete and concise answer to the OP's questions! At least if I correct
someone else's post, I will give the correct answer. And I don't think I
have any misspelled words like you - from your reply to my earlier post
"prepare first for eating a mean".
 
LVTravel said:
And how many times have people, who are amateurs as this person obviously
is, written and asked about this very subject. I have seen a failed bios
flash in the past simply because someone had plugged the computer into a
light switch outlet and when they hit the enter key they left the room,
turned out the light as they left. This failed flash rendered the
computer incapable of booting from a floppy, CD or hard drive which
effectively created a paper weight until another motherboard could be
obtained. Dell at this time, I believe, doesn't provide the motherboard
replacement for the 8200 anymore as this system is now about 4 years old
IIRC.

People do stupid things. I was trying to "scare" the OP into making sure
everything was right before the flash was accomplished. If the OP didn't
feel comfortable in doing the flash I would hope that the OP would then
seek local professional help.
Click to expand...

It won't required another motherboard, just the BIOS/CMOS chip will need to
be rewritten by an EEPROM writer at worse case and best case, set a jumper
and it will rewrite the volatile portion of the CMOS chip with the built in
ROM defaults of the chip, allowing one to start over. It is not like the
old days where you had to send off to the manufacturer to have it
reprogrammed or a new motherboard installed.
 
Jonny said:
http://support.dell.com/support/edocs/systems/dim8200/

It makes no difference if you incorporate sequential bios upgrades, or jump
to the one you want. All is overwritten with each flash. Nothing is
carried over from the prior flash.

If the bios chip is soldered in place, I wouldn't do it. Rollback is only
possible if you have dual bios chips onboard.
Click to expand...

Not true. A bios upgrade rarely updates the boot block. You CAN go back
in 95% or more of the cases of a fouled up bios flash. Fouled up bios
flashes are an extremely rare event.
 
Well. Looks like I started a slurry of nonsense from my Post. As in my
OP's first statement "I anticipate the worst," is a prelude to my cynicism.

From the attempted scaring that something bad is bound to happen, to the
audacity of shelling out extra dollars to "purchase an uninterruptible power
supply (about $75-80 for an inexpensive one) as you should have a very
dependable power supply and landline power isn't that dependable...." - just
for a total elapsed flashtime job of no more than 15-20 seconds. Maybe I
should of hired a Contractor with a Dranetz 606-3 Line Disturbance Analyser
and some Tektronix scopes to monitor for sags and surges for an extra $300
before engaging the task.

I don't remember asking for step-by-step details of Flashing <Download file,
create Disk, Flash!> ... um, really? Gosh. My OP inquired about, yes, the
notion of possible progressive flashing (Thank you). Thinking: it's like
our memorable Windows Hotfixes and Service Packs, i.e. W2K SP4 Covers all
subsequent s-Packs.

Well, I flashed anyway, even prior to reviewing all the heyday everyone
dished out. Gut instinct carried me through.

And if I were to plug my computer to a light socket that I inadvertently
shutoff during Flashing, well.....

I don't necessarily intend to be a wise-arse.


Laughing now.....


Thanks?

mt
 
Toscarelli said:
Well. Looks like I started a slurry of nonsense from my Post. As in my
OP's first statement "I anticipate the worst," is a prelude to my cynicism.

From the attempted scaring that something bad is bound to happen, to the
audacity of shelling out extra dollars to "purchase an uninterruptible power
supply (about $75-80 for an inexpensive one) as you should have a very
dependable power supply and landline power isn't that dependable...." - just
for a total elapsed flashtime job of no more than 15-20 seconds. Maybe I
should of hired a Contractor with a Dranetz 606-3 Line Disturbance Analyser
and some Tektronix scopes to monitor for sags and surges for an extra $300
before engaging the task.
Click to expand...

You WERE given good advice. A UPS IS a wise investment, not for
flashing the bios, per se, but to protect you from the much more likely
chance of losing your work during a power outage. It also provides
protection against file system corruption, and hardware damage, that
can occur during a sudden loss of power. That's the point of a UPS.
There are half a dozen reasons to get one. THAT's why it was
recommended. Don't assume it was just for the flash.

The part about sudden power loss causing a failed flash is true and
lots of people screw themselves by hitting the reset button, in panic,
while the flash is in progress. It's rare to be sure, but when you
start doing multiplication, it DOES happen to many computer systems.
Anyone who did not point this out to you, would be negligent.

Also, if the RAM is bad, the bios image may be corrupted. The same goes
for having a bad floppy. These are sensible precations. And checking
costs nothing.

Your flash went fine, congratulations. You asked for advice, and you
got it, but I would strongly advise against such arrogence and rudeness
directed toward those who just might know more that you, and just might
have ACTUAL expierence with building and maintence of computers.
 
You WERE given good advice. A UPS IS a wise investment, not for
flashing the bios, per se, but to protect you from the much more likely
chance of losing your work during a power outage. It also provides
protection against file system corruption, and hardware damage, that
can occur during a sudden loss of power. That's the point of a UPS.
There are half a dozen reasons to get one. THAT's why it was
recommended. Don't assume it was just for the flash.

The part about sudden power loss causing a failed flash is true and
lots of people screw themselves by hitting the reset button, in panic,
while the flash is in progress. It's rare to be sure, but when you
start doing multiplication, it DOES happen to many computer systems.
Anyone who did not point this out to you, would be negligent.

Also, if the RAM is bad, the bios image may be corrupted. The same goes
for having a bad floppy. These are sensible precations. And checking
costs nothing.

Your flash went fine, congratulations. You asked for advice, and you
got it, but I would strongly advise against such arrogence and rudeness
directed toward those who just might know more that you, and just might
have ACTUAL expierence with building and maintence of computers.
Click to expand...

I completely agree that being nice counts for a great deal and if you
are courteous, helpful to others and thank people then most people will
be much more willing to help you in the future.
 
LVTravel said:
You should be afraid of flashing the bios.

If there is a valid reason to do it, you should prepare first.

If you don't have one, purchase an uninterruptible power supply (about
$75-80 for an inexpensive one) as you should have a very dependable power
supply and landline power isn't that dependable. If power fails during the
minute or so that the flash requires, the computer will not work again
without replacing the chip that you were flashing.

Next, create the boot floppy disk as directed and then follow the directions
given by Dell. Flashes can be successfully performed and I have done so on
many Dell machines (I personally own an older 8100 model.) Normally goes
without problems IF you have a good power supply but with Murphy's law (that
which can go wrong will) without the good power supply power will fail at
exactly the wrong time.
Click to expand...

what frightens me is a power surge during resizing a partition with
partition magic.

I suppose one should clone the drive beforehand. I suppose if one were
to create an image file from the drive and have it on the backup drive,
there's a risk that it won't restore properly, and by the time you
know, it's too late. (though I allow for that possibility by including
data on the drive with the image file on it)

Currently, my method needs improving...
I resize the partition (no backup).
I create a new one partition. Put an image file onto it. And all the
data onto it.
(so if the image file doesn't work, i've still got the data).

I am aware that with Ghost, you can't see the contetns of a partition
you select as the restore partition, and it may even call each
partition a 'drive'. It's quite unclear sometimes. I often judge by
partition size to see which is which. But, i'm fairyl safe assuming
that Ghost cannot make the restore partition the one with the image
file (and data) on.

The risk in that method, is at the first step.. If there is a power
surge, I fear that resizing the partition could fail, and then i'm in
trouble.
Another risk is that a new version of Ghost is able to image the
restore partition that the image file is on. So if I were to restore to
the wrong partition (an easy mistake to make in Ghost - but one i've
never made) Then I could lose my chance for a second shot were that to
go wrong.


I suppose I should add Cloning to that method..
And, a UPS.
And perhaps Not use an image file at all. It may be risky.. perhaps
better to just clone.. if ghost can do that.
 
Yep, lost power just yesterday, with no prior warning, from a lightening
strike more than ten miles away (over 16,000 people were affected in towns
up to 15 miles away.) My USPs on my server, and two home office desktops
continued to allow those computers to hum right along.

Yes, in my original response to the OP, I could have toned down the
statements a little. I don't think the impact would have been as great but
speaking from experience in repairing other people's mistakes.... I forgot
about the guy that did the hard reset during a flash, then wanted me to
repair his system. Since the only people I see with computer problems are
those that have somehow managed to screw up their systems I do have a very
pessimistic attitude toward much amateur self-help. That's why I said what
I said and still stick to it. (Had one guy that liked to go on porn sites
without proper anti-virus protection then couldn't understand why he
couldn't do other work for his home office. The first time I cleaned his
system and put on a good spyware and antivirus program. He turned off the
auto-updates, got infected again. Cleaned it again and told him the next
time his cost would be a minimum of $500. Sometimes you just need to scare
people.)

I have never had a failed flash that I have personally done simply because
of the protection and setup I do before hand. I have personally flashed 50
Gateway computers in one afternoon and my share of Dell computers, Sony
computers and no-name systems during my career which started on mainframe
computers in the late 60s. I have progressed from Radio Shack TRS80 (Trash
80), Commodore and TI systems, through the IBM PC 5150 era, up to today's
systems. I have built and rebuilt systems, upgraded hardware, software,
installed networks from Artisoft Lantastic (70s & 80s), Novel (80s & 90s)
and Microsoft from Win 3.1 days to present. I have had to replace
motherboards or bios chips for quite a few people who attempted their flash
that failed AND took out the boot capability. I have been teaching computer
setup and upgrading and MS Office applications for more than 15 years (and
no, when I teach the students, I'm not as pessimistic sounding but give the
students the background necessary to accomplish the tasks they need to do.)
 
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