best save setting to fit >1hr video on DVD

[Guest]

I work with jpgs in PhotoStory3 to transfer to MM2 where I add sound tracks
and a beginning and end page. I then transfer the resultant .wmv to
InterVideo WinDVD Creator to make my DVD. I've done this numerous times in
the past with good results. However, the project I'm currently working on is
not to my satisfaction. The quality of panning movement is very jerky and
pictures not as sharp.

From reading the posts in this newgroup, I discovered this may have to do
with the fact that this is the first time I've produced a product that runs
greater than an hour, 1hr 25min. to be exact.

Question: How can I adjust the Movie Save Settings to maximize the capacity
of a 4.5GB DVD disk which should result in my best possible save to for my
finest possible DVD resolution?

Second Question: Both "Video for Local Playback (2.1 mbps NTSC)" and "High
Quality Video" options result in files 1344MB for my current project. The
"DV-AVI" option results in 19,537MB. If I were to run the DV-AVI option and
transfer than into the WinDVD (which says it accepts *.avi* file which I only
assume includes DV-AVI) do you think I can expect that program to compress as
necessary to place on the DVD? Or, should I be using other DVD writing
software; please advise.

Lastly, I've worked with two different save settings both resulting in
disappointing final products. Each time I do the final, Save to my Computer,
process it takes a little over 7hours to complete. Yes, I leave it operate
overnight. Is this usual?

My Computer components:
Pentium(R) 4 CPU 2.80Ghz, 1.5GB ram
ASUS P4C800-E Deluxe
ATI Radeon 9200SE Video Card
WindowsXP Home

Thank you for your input.

 

[Wojo]

I do the same things you are describing on a regular basis. Comments in line
below:

I work with jpgs in PhotoStory3 to transfer to MM2 where I add sound tracks
and a beginning and end page. I then transfer the resultant .wmv to
InterVideo WinDVD Creator to make my DVD. I've done this numerous times
in
the past with good results. However, the project I'm currently working on
is
not to my satisfaction. The quality of panning movement is very jerky and
pictures not as sharp.

Does the WMV from Photo Story play properly in your media player or are the
"jerky" movements present already? The reason I ask is because I have gotten
the jerky movement results but it is because I set the resolution too high
in PS3. If I have faster pan and zoom effects or I switch quickly from one
image to another I need to set PS3 to output to 640x480 or smaller. If I set
the program to 800x600 or higher I get the result you are describing.

From reading the posts in this newgroup, I discovered this may have to do
with the fact that this is the first time I've produced a product that
runs
greater than an hour, 1hr 25min. to be exact.

The length of the project shouldn't make any difference.

Question: How can I adjust the Movie Save Settings to maximize the
capacity
of a 4.5GB DVD disk which should result in my best possible save to for my
finest possible DVD resolution?

The best settings to use when working with video (yes it was originally
still images but it doesn't matter to WMM since it is video now) is to save
the file as a DV-AVI.

Second Question: Both "Video for Local Playback (2.1 mbps NTSC)" and
"High
Quality Video" options result in files 1344MB for my current project. The
"DV-AVI" option results in 19,537MB. If I were to run the DV-AVI option
and
transfer than into the WinDVD (which says it accepts *.avi* file which I
only
assume includes DV-AVI) do you think I can expect that program to compress
as
necessary to place on the DVD? Or, should I be using other DVD writing
software; please advise.

The size of the file as it comes out of WMM is of little consequence. It is
the length of the movie you need to be concerned with. As a basic rule 1
hour of video fits properly on a DVD without loss of quality. I don't use
WinDVD but with all the DVD Authoring programs I have used, and that's quite
a few, you can adjust the programs settings to fit longer videos on a DVD.
Ulead products, for instance, allow me to adjust it to fit 3 hours on a DVD
but with a very noticeable loss to quality. If you were to adjust the
settings to allow for a 1 1/2hr video on a DVD the quality loss may not be
so noticeable.

Lastly, I've worked with two different save settings both resulting in
disappointing final products. Each time I do the final, Save to my
Computer,
process it takes a little over 7hours to complete. Yes, I leave it
operate
overnight. Is this usual?

I have never had a project take that long to complete. It sounds like you
may have a different issue here. Your computer seems to have plenty of
resources according to the specs you provided. I have a few questions and
with those answers we may be able to diagnose the problem.
1) What types of files are in your project (other than the WMV's from Photo
Story)?
2) How many different clips are there and are there transitions between
them?
3) When was the last time you defragmented your harddrive?
4) I already asked this one above, do the Photo Story WMV's play ok in your
media player prior to running them through Movie Maker?

 

[Guest]

Thanks for the rapid reply.

Does the WMV from Photo Story play properly in your media player or are the

In order to accomplish my project the Photo Story part was divided up into
13 sections. When I run these parts (.wmv) the operate flawlessly. Most of
my jpgs start out about 2500kb each, shooting with a Canon 10D and ran
through Photoshop.

The length of the project shouldn't make any difference.

I mentioned this on the basis of what I had read that the common DVDs that
we purchase only allow 1hr project without compression, causing possible
image deterioration. I'm pleased to hear that for a 1.5 hr presentation this
should not be noticable.

The best settings to use when working with video (yes it was originally
still images but it doesn't matter to WMM since it is video now) is to save
the file as a DV-AVI.

Great! I'll start another shot at it this evening and tomorrow moring with
coffee I'll check my results. Expecting a nice big, big file, I'll search
deeper on the setups of WinDVD to accommodate it. If that fails I'll do some
searchin on the suggested Ulead products.

1) What types of files are in your project (other than the WMV's from Photo
Story)?
2) How many different clips are there and are there transitions between
them?
3) When was the last time you defragmented your harddrive?
4) I already asked this one above, do the Photo Story WMV's play ok in your
media player prior to running them through Movie Maker?

1. Only WMV files, those 13 segments. Ah, but I did add a still image
(JPG) in the front and rear of the project as a background to title and "the
end". I use Photo Story only for the panning and 1 sec fade transition
between images.
2. The 13 wmv files from Photo Story. All transitions, or 99%, originate
from Photo Story so it should not be of concern for WMM (?).
3. I did a disk cleanup and analyze on each of my drives, defraging those
that needed it prior to the finalizing my project last night. I actually
got up at 5:30AM to check results. It was still operating, but of course
very sloooowly. At first I thought it had hung. I waited several minutes
and finally the %-completed indicator moved a notch. With relief I went back
to bed.
4. Beautifully. Something to be proud of.

While I'm on a roll...
One of my biggest gripes about PhotoStory is the fact that it doesn't have a
"save" feature, only "save as" which takes a chunk of time. That's one of
the reasons (one only) I break up my projects in many segments. That way if
something happens wrong I don't have to redo the whole project. Am I missing
something, or does everybody experience this. I have to content myself in
that the program is free, so my complaints are soft spoken.

Thanks again.

 

[Wojo]

I mentioned this on the basis of what I had read that the common DVDs that
we purchase only allow 1hr project without compression, causing possible
image deterioration. I'm pleased to hear that for a 1.5 hr presentation
this
should not be noticable.

Notice I said "should" not be noticeable. I have done a few DVD's of that
length and they turned out great but it will depend on the speed of
transitions etc... as to whether or not you will notice a quality
difference. But it will, in all likelihood, be fine.

Great! I'll start another shot at it this evening and tomorrow moring
with
coffee I'll check my results. Expecting a nice big, big file, I'll search
deeper on the setups of WinDVD to accommodate it. If that fails I'll do
some
searchin on the suggested Ulead products.

I am curious about your WinDVD Authoring software. I can't seem to find
mention of a DVD Authoring program called WinDVD anywhere. WinDVD player
sure that comes standard with most PC's that have a DVD drive but I can't
find what you apparently have anyplace.

1. Only WMV files, those 13 segments. Ah, but I did add a still image
(JPG) in the front and rear of the project as a background to title and
"the
end". I use Photo Story only for the panning and 1 sec fade transition
between images.

The JPG probably isn't causing any problems but it possibly could be. If the
issues aren't resolved it is worth converting them to BMP and trying again
to see if the results are better.

2. The 13 wmv files from Photo Story. All transitions, or 99%, originate
from Photo Story so it should not be of concern for WMM (?).

No the transitions from PS3 are now within a video file and are no longer
viewed as transitions by WMM so they will not be a concern. 13 separate
clips with transitions between them is not a complex project so that
shouldn't be affecting WMM either.

3. I did a disk cleanup and analyze on each of my drives, defraging those
that needed it prior to the finalizing my project last night. I actually
got up at 5:30AM to check results. It was still operating, but of course
very sloooowly. At first I thought it had hung. I waited several minutes
and finally the %-completed indicator moved a notch. With relief I went
back
to bed.
4. Beautifully. Something to be proud of.

While I'm on a roll...
One of my biggest gripes about PhotoStory is the fact that it doesn't have
a
"save" feature, only "save as" which takes a chunk of time. That's one of
the reasons (one only) I break up my projects in many segments. That way
if
something happens wrong I don't have to redo the whole project. Am I
missing
something, or does everybody experience this. I have to content myself in
that the program is free, so my complaints are soft spoken.

Thanks again.

I think maybe you are missing something. When working with PS3 there is a
button at the bottom
[Save Project]
Click that regularly so your project is always saved so if you do have a
problem you won't lose your work.

 

[Guest]

Just a follow-up note: I got up early this morning to find that WMM with the
DV-AVI setting did hang. It must have occurred after about 2hrs running; it
had 5 1/2 hours to go. Not helping the situation is that I had forgotten to
shut off my MS Anitispyware program which seems to have popped up during the
process to do a scan. However, this has occurred in the past without locking
up the WMM process. I'll probably give it another run tonight.

 

[Wojo]

Just a follow-up note: I got up early this morning to find that WMM with
the
DV-AVI setting did hang. It must have occurred after about 2hrs running;
it
had 5 1/2 hours to go. Not helping the situation is that I had forgotten
to
shut off my MS Anitispyware program which seems to have popped up during
the
process to do a scan. However, this has occurred in the past without
locking
up the WMM process. I'll probably give it another run tonight.

The antispy software very well could have caused the problem.
If resources are used for other things it is supposed to only slow Movie
Maker down but when rendering a large project scanning software like antispy
software or virus software as well as things like screensavers do have a
tendency to lock Movie Maker up.
-Wojo

 

[Guest]

I suspect the same. I have a Direcway motem. I was careful to shut it down
but left the firewall and antivirus on as they became useless. That MS
antispyware item I never pay attention to as I haven't needed to in the past,
nor did it effect my last previous 7hr sessions trying to save the WMM
projects to my PC. I'll give it another try tonight and be sure that
EVERYTHING is shut down. Back to the 7hr issue...? Any idea why so long?

 

[Wojo]

No I have no idea why it is taking so long.
Your PC specs are great you shouldn't be having any resource issues unless
you have a lot of stuff running in the background and eating up resources.

 

[Guest]

Hi guys....I read all of your posts above, and got to thinking about the
problem.
Since you put the ''13'' different clips into Movie Maker to add titles and
music for a 1.5 hour video.....meaning each one is about 7 minutes long
right? Could you just import 3 or 4 of these clips and add the music and
then save it as a rendered movie.....if you do this to all 13, you would end
up having about 4 separate movies out of Movie Maker, and you could import
all of them together into your dvd software to make a dvd. I think if you
render your movie in 20-25 minute increments (especially since they are made
in photo story) your computer will handle it much quicker.

Wojo, I found WinDvdCreator here
http://www.intervideo.com/jsp/WinDVDCreator_Profile.jsp

Check in the file setting and/or preferences to set the quality and length
of the video.
Usually 1.5 hours will be just one step down from 'superior' quality, but
most won't see too much difference. With those big high quality pictures
you are using they should present nicely even when cut down to video quality.
When I do that I save my files with PapaJohn's high definition emulation
(960x720) from Movie Maker and they do show better for me when I reduce them
to dvd quality. If you try that, the emulations are at www.papajohn.org
......click on WMV-HD....and then Introduction....part way down that page
you'll see the downloadable profiles.

Sorta long winded...but good luck with your project!

 

[Wojo]

Hey dickmr

Hi guys....I read all of your posts above, and got to thinking about the
problem.
Since you put the ''13'' different clips into Movie Maker to add titles
and
music for a 1.5 hour video.....meaning each one is about 7 minutes long
right? Could you just import 3 or 4 of these clips and add the music and
then save it as a rendered movie.....if you do this to all 13, you would
end
up having about 4 separate movies out of Movie Maker, and you could import
all of them together into your dvd software to make a dvd. I think if
you
render your movie in 20-25 minute increments (especially since they are
made
in photo story) your computer will handle it much quicker.

Probably but a 1 1/2hr video with the computer specs hlkoons posted
shouldn't be taking THAT long to begin with unless there's something slowing
down the system

Wojo, I found WinDvdCreator here
http://www.intervideo.com/jsp/WinDVDCreator_Profile.jsp

ahhh, there it is. I googled for WinDVD and just kept coming up with links
to the player but I admit I didn't put too much effort into it. I downloaded
the trial so I can do a write-up on it for my website.

Check in the file setting and/or preferences to set the quality and length
of the video.
Usually 1.5 hours will be just one step down from 'superior' quality, but
most won't see too much difference. With those big high quality pictures
you are using they should present nicely even when cut down to video
quality.
When I do that I save my files with PapaJohn's high definition emulation
(960x720) from Movie Maker and they do show better for me when I reduce
them
to dvd quality. If you try that, the emulations are at www.papajohn.org
.....click on WMV-HD....and then Introduction....part way down that page
you'll see the downloadable profiles.

Sorta long winded...but good luck with your project!

One of these days I am going to have to try that high-def profile.

 

[Guest]

Hi Wojo. Yeah, I became a believer in the usefulness of that 960 x 720
profile late last year when I put together a half hour of some 12 megapixel
wedding photos into a slideshow/video. It was a lot of work and with my
arsenal of titles/effects/transitions/music it was pretty awesome. But I
kept being disappointed when I put it to dvd....so, believe me, I tried about
25 combinations (those which I figured would be good results) of pic size,
video formats, burn programs, settings, and dvd media. At the end I was able
to compare them side by side....the final winner was the 960x720 profile out
of Movie Maker from original picture size and resolution (10% added
contrast), burned to a dvd+r Sony blank, with an older Sonic DVDit program
set at 'superior quality VBR'. I only use it for 'pics' and still use
DV-AVI for video. I don't know the reason that all worked, but I do
remember being blown away by what that combination produced. I suppose its
another reason for me to re-visit Photostory again some day.... ha ha You
really should try it to see what results you get....hopefully the same as
mine, but you never know.

 

[Wojo]

Hey dickmr
I'm sure my results will be just as good. We'll have to wait and see.
I downloaded the profile and it's ready to go. I just need to work out a
good set of clips to truly test it properly.
you burned with Sonic?!?!? Must have been before you discovered Movie
Factory.
BTW I am also going to do a DVD with AVS Converter to see how well that
works as a authoring tool, I doubt it will even come close to replacing DVD
Workshop2 but at least I can then give it a proper review on my website.
-Wojo

 

[Guest]

ha ha, don't worry I'm still mostly using Movie Factory and am a stalwart
supporter. But sometimes I found that for certain things my other programs
perform better...but that is pretty seldom of course. I really like the Avs
Video Converter program just as much because of its wide range of
capabilities. I've made dvd's with it too....in fact I recently used it
when I converted about 28 hours of vhs tapes to dvd for a friend's family and
baby videos...wow, what a marathon project that was; but I bartered a good
trade deal!!! ha ha I used AVS VC because I could convert directly into a
dvd. Use the high quality dvd 1 hour and it will be as good as the others.
My only problem with it, is that my dlp projector/bigscreen won't play
dvd+r's that I make with it....so I tend to use Movie Factory when I want to
feel secure that it will work when I need it. Hopefully this year I can get
around to buying the Workshop program

 

[Guest]

Next report, Gentlemen.

I returned to my PC 6 AM to find that WMM had successfully completed it's
task providing my with a very good rendition of my movie.

A few comments:
dickmr: Those 13 segments aren't equally divided but divided more on
subject matter. If I were to process them through WMM as 4 sections that
would only mean that I'd have to get up through the night to close one and
start the other. Even my final project finished last night in the DV-AVI
took 7.5 hours for completion. I had shut down all processes, at least as
indicated on my task bar (Sat modem and all protective services).

Then I cranked up WinDVD (this came as a freeby with my DVD recorder a
couple of years back). Three times it crashed while I was working with the
Authoring section, setting up a menu page, etc. I finally cut my first DVD
and it was a disappointment. It displayed all the jitteriness of my original
complain, but at least this time around I got it through WMM looking good.

I did notice while working with WinDVD that there was a glitch in one of the
strips from WMM, a single, solid black interuption in the midst of a
sequence. After all I've been through with this project I couldn't conceive
of doing it all over again because of it; I simply deleted it from the rest.
That does, however, leave an interuption in the visual flow as well as the
audio.

Now that my final DVD is a disappointment I'm giving thought to starting
again at WMM, fix my boob and try out some of dickmr suggestions on different
profiles. I'll also be exploring other DVD editing software and would
welcome suggestions. Wojos mentioned Ulead and there was mention of AVS
Video Converter and Movie Maker. I have the Roxio Creator Suite package as
maybe something in there should suffice. Thoughts?

I'd like to maintain contact with you folks as I'll probably need it but not
sure if we should continue along this thread. Suggestions?

Wojos: Concerning my PS3 gripe, its "save..." at the bottom of the screne
leads me to the box to rename the project (or leave as same) and re-writes
the whole kittencabootle all over again as a save. Not save the last changed
items as what I've become accustom to seeing. Working with large photos,
etc., rewriting takes a long time. Do you still think I may be missing
something?

Thanks mucho.

 

[Guest]

Hi hkoons...glad to see you came back. Yeah, its probably best to start a
new thread sooner or later so that its more upfront and center. Wojo comes
here more than I do...i'm more of a drive by poster! ha ha One of the
reasons I suggested having smaller clips to render as a part of your movie,
is just for the reason you cited. If there is something wrong such as a
'solid black interruption', all you would have to reload is the 'project' for
that section to correct it and re-render. Don't assume that if the whole
movie took 7.5 hrs to completely render that 4 smaller ones would take 1/4 of
that time. Even with different subject matter you can establish 'breaks' in
the flow of your work and even with music, just right click and do a fade out
to get a proper interim concluding point.

Wojo and I are both pretty big fans of Ulead's Movie Factory....thats why I
sorta tweaked him in that earlier post that I actually used Sonic.... ha ha
ha ha The basic Movie Factory costs $49.95 and you can download a 'trial'
of it at www.ulead.com
Wojo's got the best one....Workshop....and I was sorta hoping he would buy
me one for my birthday....ha ha ha

AVS Video Converter is a great utility mainly for 'converting' video files
to a wide variety of possible formats. Since Movie Maker won't work with
Mpegs, and my recording device (gigapocket) records in Mpegs I convert to avi
quite often. It also
makes dvd's and contains various editing tools but I prefer to use Movie
Factory when I do an important video. AVS Video Converter also has some
cool audio tools and is just a quite handy program to have around. Its got a
'trial' also, and I think it costs $29.95 to buy.... see it at
www.avsmedia.com

Since you are using 'pictures' and not 'video' to make your final movie, you
may find it interesting and useful to save your file as 'high quality-ntsc'
or to one of the high def profiles I mentioned to see what results you
attain. As Wojo mentioned, with that high powered machine you have, it
shouldn't really be taking so long to render your movie, even if it is quite
a long individual project. I still suggest making it in smaller pieces and
putting them together when you make the dvd.....quit going to bed to get out
of your responsibilities of waiting for the pot to boil....thats usually when
I get my laundry done or go out for a looooooong ride! ha ha Good luck.

 

[Guest]

I did a lot of googling after I last posted, checking out all that had been
mentioned, then put it to rest for a while.

I had hoped to pin down the talk of papajohn's profile alterations and give
it a run this evening but it doesn't look like its going to get that far.

I made an interesting observation. Actually 17 individual wmv files, not
what I previously stated as 13, were produced through PS3 (about 360 jpgs,
each having about 2500MB) totaling 440MB data. When this was put through WMM
it created a 5.6MB MSWMV working file, and delivered with the DV-AVI setting
a whopping 18.3GB DV-AVI file. That file when viewed looks absolutely
beautiful. My WINDVD Creator added chapters and a menu and produced a 2.7GB
DVD, although badly.

My real wonder is how in the world did that 440MB grow to 18+BG and produce
such stupendous results.

I buy your idea of segments. I just never thought I'd have to do it through
WMM, but I learn.

Now I have some homework to do on getting that 18+GB on a DVD and have it
look like something of which I can be proud.

I'll report my results, hopefully tomorrow. About the tread... It's only
very slightly alterred in that I'm trying to fit a good, big file on a DVD
for 1.3hr viewing.

You both have been a great help.

 

[PapaJohn \(MVP\)]

Story files are typically much smaller than movie files.... I'm working on
a high definition one now - the story is 5+ MB and when run through Movie
Maker the movie is 73+ MB... kind of typical.

Technically it's a lot easier for a story to get from one keyframe to
another as all motion is in straight lines.... whereas movie frames jump all
over the place, needing lots more data to define the movements.
--
PapaJohn

Movie Maker 2 and Photo Story 3 website - http://www.papajohn.org
MM2 Tips and Tricks: http://www.simplydv.co.uk/simplyBB/viewtopic.php?t=4693
Online Newsletters: http://www.windowsmoviemakers.net/PapaJohn/Index.aspx

 

[Wojo]

I think maybe trying Papajohn's High-Def profile is the way to go and then I
would definitely recommend downloading the trial of Movie Factory and using
that to create your DVD and see if you like the results better, and I bet
you will. The fact is you get what you pay for in DVD Authoring and it has
been my experience that the programs that come free with drives are not the
best programs for the job. The rare exception is that sometimes you see
manufacturers running a special where the FULL version of Nero is included
with the purchase of a drive or something similar.
No dickmr I don't know you well enough to buy you a $400 program for your
birthday.
Or for that matter a $200 upgrade which is really all you need since you
have Movie Factory.
You can find Papajohn's custom profiles on his website [Saving Movies ->
Custom WMV Profiles]
www.papajohn.org