best cloning method?

[stevesai]

I'm beyond aggravated. I've upgraged dozens of hard drives in the past
using the floppy to format the new drive and copy the original drive
over to the new one. Apparently the days of simplicity are over. I
tried using the Maxtor Maxblast software since the new drive is a
Maxtor 80g ata133 7200rpm (the old is a 28g Western Digital.) Maxtor
says to use the Windows based version of the program. In the oldern
days there was no such thing, and for good reason - if any files are in
use in your Windows session, how will you be able to copy them to the
new drive sucessfully? This results in failed attempt number one,
since when I reboot all the Norton software on the system is messed up.
Systemworks 2006 needs to be reactivated. Antivirus 2006 shows that
it's running in the system tray, but the system checker thing says that
no antivirus software is present. Blah, blah, blah - bottom line - it
didn't work. So I start over and use the DOS version of the software
off of a bootable CD. I format the new drive, but the automatic
process of asking if you want to copy everything over and make the new
drive the boot drive is mysteriously gone. So I manually use the
utility that copies a hard drive partition to move the old drive to the
new. Only the new drive won't boot. Apparently when you format it,
the program sticks some files on the drive depending on what OS you
intend to install later. Maybe this is the cause of the problem now -
I don't know for sure. I give up. I try one more time with the
Windows version, but this time I went into the startup section of
msconfig to disable every single Norton product and then manually
stopped another 4 or 5 Symantec processes in the task manager. Surely
it would work this time. Nope. Identical problem - no antivirus
installed and every attempt to uninstall or reinstall fails miserably.
Is there a nice simple DOS program that I can run that will format the
new drive, copy the old to the new, and make the new drive bootable?
Thanks in advance for any help.

 

[Rod Speed]

Use True Image.

(e-mail address removed) wrote

I'm beyond aggravated. I've upgraged dozens of hard drives in the
past using the floppy to format the new drive and copy the original
drive over to the new one. Apparently the days of simplicity are over.

Have been for a long time now, tho its even easier
to boot a True Image CD and get it to do the clone.

I tried using the Maxtor Maxblast software since the new drive
is a Maxtor 80g ata133 7200rpm (the old is a 28g Western Digital.)

Its always had some serious downsides.

Maxtor says to use the Windows based version of the program.
In the oldern days there was no such thing, and for good reason
- if any files are in use in your Windows session, how will you be
able to copy them to the new drive sucessfully?

The world's moved on on that now. Tho its still not necessarily
the best way to clone for various other reasons.

This results in failed attempt number one, since when I reboot
all the Norton software on the system is messed up. Systemworks
2006 needs to be reactivated. Antivirus 2006 shows that it's
running in the system tray, but the system checker thing says
that no antivirus software is present. Blah, blah, blah - bottom
line - it didn't work. So I start over and use the DOS version
of the software off of a bootable CD. I format the new drive,

You dont need to do that with a decent cloner.

but the automatic process of asking if you want to copy everything
over and make the new drive the boot drive is mysteriously gone.
So I manually use the utility that copies a hard drive partition to
move the old drive to the new. Only the new drive won't boot.
Apparently when you format it, the program sticks some files
on the drive depending on what OS you intend to install later.
Maybe this is the cause of the problem now - I don't know for sure.
I give up. I try one more time with the Windows version, but this
time I went into the startup section of msconfig to disable every
single Norton product and then manually stopped another 4 or 5
Symantec processes in the task manager. Surely it would work
this time. Nope. Identical problem - no antivirus installed and
every attempt to uninstall or reinstall fails miserably. Is there a nice
simple DOS program that I can run that will format the new drive,
copy the old to the new, and make the new drive bootable?

Its better to use True Image and it doesnt use DOS to
do the cloning from its bootable CD, it uses linux instead.

 

[Timothy Daniels]

Is there a nice simple DOS program that I can run that
will format the new drive, copy the old to the new, and
make the new drive bootable?

Yes! And it's free for 30 days. It's called Casper XP.
www.FSSdev.com/products/casperxp. I've used half
a dozen other cloning utilities, and for cloning (as opposed
to image files and incrmental backups) it's the best and
the easiest to use. It will copy the MBR to the new drive,
it will mark the new paritition "active" (if only one partition
is being cloned), and the new partition will be as bootable
as the one cloned. Casper can be made to clone in either
of 2 modes - the entirety of one HD can be cloned to the
entirety of another HD, or just one partition can be cloned
to another HD which may or may not already have other
partitions on it. (True Image cannot do the latter.)

As with all cloning, disconnect the old drive before
starting up the clone OS for the first time. The clone
may be *seen* by the old OS before the clone is
first started up, but the clone must not see the old OS
until after it has undergone its first startup. Thereafter,
at subsequent startups, the clone may see its "parent"
OS without problems.

*TimDaniels*

 

[Timothy Daniels]

"Timothy Daniels" replied:

Yes! And it's free for 30 days. It's called Casper XP.
www.FSSdev.com/products/casperxp.

Sorry, Casper XP does not run under DOS, but that
matters not a whit - it will copy everything while running
under WinXP, including the wretched Symantec anti-virus
software with all its settings and its subscription life span.
Just disconnect the PC from the internet and disable the
AV off before cloning to be sure.

*TimDaniels*

 

[stevesai]

Thanks for the reply. I'm trying True Image right now, but don't know
how to make a bootable CD with the utilites in linux. I saw a part of
the program for making bootable recovery cd/dvd's but I'm sure that's
different. Can you point me in the right direction? Thanks again.

 

[Rod Speed]

(e-mail address removed) wrote

Thanks for the reply. I'm trying True Image right now, but
don't know how to make a bootable CD with the utilites in linux.
I saw a part of the program for making bootable recovery cd/dvd's

Thats it.

but I'm sure that's different.
Nope.

Can you point me in the right direction?

^ up there |-)
|

 

[Anna]

Yes! And it's free for 30 days. It's called Casper XP.
www.FSSdev.com/products/casperxp. I've used half
a dozen other cloning utilities, and for cloning (as opposed
to image files and incrmental backups) it's the best and
the easiest to use. It will copy the MBR to the new drive,
it will mark the new paritition "active" (if only one partition
is being cloned), and the new partition will be as bootable
as the one cloned. Casper can be made to clone in either
of 2 modes - the entirety of one HD can be cloned to the
entirety of another HD, or just one partition can be cloned
to another HD which may or may not already have other
partitions on it. (True Image cannot do the latter.)

As with all cloning, disconnect the old drive before
starting up the clone OS for the first time. The clone
may be *seen* by the old OS before the clone is
first started up, but the clone must not see the old OS
until after it has undergone its first startup. Thereafter,
at subsequent startups, the clone may see its "parent"
OS without problems.

*TimDaniels*

Tim later adds...
Sorry, Casper XP does not run under DOS, but that
matters not a whit - it will copy everything while running
under WinXP, including the wretched Symantec anti-virus
software with all its settings and its subscription life span.
Just disconnect the PC from the internet and disable the
AV off before cloning to be sure.

*TimDaniels*

Thanks for the reply. I'm trying True Image right now, but don't know
how to make a bootable CD with the utilites in linux. I saw a part of
the program for making bootable recovery cd/dvd's but I'm sure that's
different. Can you point me in the right direction? Thanks again.

Steve:
We're talking *direct* disk-to-disk cloning here, right?

In addition to Tim's recommendation re the Casper XP program, let me offer
the following...

If you're primarily interested in using a disk cloning program with either a
bootable floppy disk or bootable CD as the media to carry out the cloning
operation, you may be interested in Symantec's Norton Ghost 2003 program.
Its simplicity of use in performing direct disk-to-disk cloning operations,
together with its portability aspects make it a very appealing program for
many of us. While that program has been presumably superseded by the Ghost 9
& 10 versions, we find the 2003 version easier to use than those later
programs and just as effective in an XP environment. The 2003 version is
still available from a number of online vendors for very reasonable cost
(either as a CD or download). If you're interested I'll provide you with the
URLs of a number of those vendors. Also, I recently prepared step-by-step
instructions for using the Ghost 2003 program (via the bootable floppy
disk/CD) so if you, or others are interested in this I'll post them.

As to the Acronis True Image program...
It's also a nice program for *direct* disk-to-disk cloning operations. While
you can't prepare a bootable floppy disk as you can with the Ghost 2003
program, you can easily create a bootable CD to carry out the cloning
operation. You do this from within the program itself; you don't need any
third-party program to do so. You also have the opportunity to create the
bootable CD when you first install the program on your PC.

I also prepared step-by-step instructions for using the ATI program (version
8) (using the bootable CD) so if you're interested I'll post them as well.
Anna

 

[Rod Speed]

Steve:
We're talking *direct* disk-to-disk cloning here, right?

In addition to Tim's recommendation re the Casper XP program, let me
offer the following...

If you're primarily interested in using a disk cloning program with
either a bootable floppy disk or bootable CD as the media to carry out
the cloning operation, you may be interested in Symantec's Norton Ghost
2003 program.

True Image makes a lot more sense.
Ghost 2003 is way past its useby date now.

Its simplicity of use in performing direct disk-to-disk cloning
operations,

True Image is much simpler.

together with its portability aspects

True Image is just as portable.

make it a very appealing program for many of us.

True Image leaves it for dead and has
lots of other extra capabilitys as well.

While that program has been presumably superseded by the Ghost 9 & 10
versions,

Not for cloning it hasnt, it cant clone when booted from the CD.

we find the 2003 version easier to use than those later programs

True Image is much easier to use for cloning.

and just as effective in an XP environment. The 2003 version is still
available from a number of online vendors for very reasonable cost
(either as a CD or download). If you're interested I'll provide you with
the URLs of a number of those vendors. Also, I recently prepared
step-by-step instructions for using the Ghost 2003 program (via the
bootable floppy disk/CD) so if you, or others are interested in this I'll
post them.

You dont need any with True Image, just use the clone
icon on the screen you see when you boot the CD.

As to the Acronis True Image program...
It's also a nice program for *direct* disk-to-disk cloning operations.
While you can't prepare a bootable floppy disk as you can with the Ghost
2003 program,

Yes you can. Tho a bootable CD
makes a lot more sense with both.

 

[Timothy Daniels]

True Image is much easier to use for cloning.

True Image cannot do single partition cloning.
It will only do entire-disk-to-entire-disk cloning.
If you want to clone a single partion with True
Image, you have to make an image file and then
"restore" the image to where you want it - hassle.
Ghost can do single partition cloning.
Casper XP can do single partition cloning.
Drive Image 7.0 can do single partition cloning.

*TimDaniels*

 

[Rod Speed]

Rod Speed wrote

True Image cannot do single partition cloning.

Wrong, it can do that via an image file.

And hardly anyone wants to do single partition cloning anyway.

It will only do entire-disk-to-entire-disk cloning.
Wrong.

If you want to clone a single partion with True
Image, you have to make an image file and then "restore" the image to
where you want it

So it clearly can do single partition cloning.

- hassle.

Nope, no hassle at all.

Ghost can do single partition cloning.
Casper XP can do single partition cloning.
Drive Image 7.0 can do single partition cloning.

Hardly anyone is silly enough to do single partition cloning.

 

[Clive]

I'm beyond aggravated. I've upgraged dozens of hard drives in the past
using the floppy to format the new drive and copy the original drive
over to the new one. Apparently the days of simplicity are over. I
tried using the Maxtor Maxblast software since the new drive is a
Maxtor 80g ata133 7200rpm (the old is a 28g Western Digital.) Maxtor
says to use the Windows based version of the program. In the oldern
days there was no such thing, and for good reason - if any files are in
use in your Windows session, how will you be able to copy them to the
new drive sucessfully? This results in failed attempt number one,
since when I reboot all the Norton software on the system is messed up.
Systemworks 2006 needs to be reactivated. Antivirus 2006 shows that
it's running in the system tray, but the system checker thing says that
no antivirus software is present. Blah, blah, blah - bottom line - it
didn't work. So I start over and use the DOS version of the software
off of a bootable CD. I format the new drive, but the automatic
process of asking if you want to copy everything over and make the new
drive the boot drive is mysteriously gone. So I manually use the
utility that copies a hard drive partition to move the old drive to the
new. Only the new drive won't boot. Apparently when you format it,
the program sticks some files on the drive depending on what OS you
intend to install later. Maybe this is the cause of the problem now -
I don't know for sure. I give up. I try one more time with the
Windows version, but this time I went into the startup section of
msconfig to disable every single Norton product and then manually
stopped another 4 or 5 Symantec processes in the task manager. Surely
it would work this time. Nope. Identical problem - no antivirus
installed and every attempt to uninstall or reinstall fails miserably.
Is there a nice simple DOS program that I can run that will format the
new drive, copy the old to the new, and make the new drive bootable?
Thanks in advance for any help.

I've used cloning software over many years starting with the first version
of Ghost and through to the latest versions of True Image.

I now think the age of disk cloning has gone (IMHO - Flame suit ON).
Reasons?

1. With people changing hardware so often, many problems occur when trying
to clone a disk image onto new hardware.

2. How often do people really do a full clone?

3. Windows becomes full of useless, old, corrupt drivers, software.

4. Just look at the problems posted in this group?

Personally I now copy/backup the Documents and setting folders; that way I
just install my existing or new operating system on to my original or new
hardware or new hard disk. Install all updates, patches, latest drivers and
then copy what data I really need from my backups of Documents and setting.

Clive

 

[Rod Speed]

I've used cloning software over many years starting with the first
version of Ghost and through to the latest versions of True Image.

I now think the age of disk cloning has gone
Nope.

(IMHO - Flame suit ON). Reasons?

1. With people changing hardware so often, many problems occur when
trying to clone a disk image onto new hardware.

Nope, and none that arent trivially fixable.

2. How often do people really do a full clone?

Mostly when upgrading a drive to a larger one or moving to
a whole new system. Cloning is still the best way to do both.

3. Windows becomes full of useless, old, corrupt drivers, software.

No it doesnt.

4. Just look at the problems posted in this group?

Nothing to do with cloning. And those who post about problems
are always a tiny subset of those who have no problems.

Personally I now copy/backup the Documents and setting folders;

FAR too primitive. That doesnt save the settings and config stuff.

that way I just install my existing or new operating system on to my
original or new hardware or new hard disk. Install all updates,
patches, latest drivers and then copy what data I really need from my
backups of Documents and setting.

You'd be much better off using the Files and Setting
Transfer Wizard with a system that is working fine.

Much better again to clone instead.

 

[stevesai]

OK folks -
I used True Image to clone the disk using the clone drive wizard.
Everything seemed to work fine and it copied everything rather quickly,
a nice surprise, HOWEVER... there is a really wierd situation now.
The new 80gig drive is set as the master drive. When I boot into
windows it is the only drive that shows in Windows Explorer even though
the old drive is still connected as a slave. Wierder still is that if
I disconnect the old drive the computer will not boot into windows -
instead giving an error message that it cannot locate a boot disk, or
boot file or something like that. When I reconnect the old drive as
the slave it boots into windows on the new drive with no problem.
Bizarre. Windows doesn't even show the old drive, but it can't boot
the new drive without it. Can anyone shed some light on this. I'd
love to have this work the way it should. I truly can't believe how
complicated this process has become in the past couple years. This
used to take me one try and an hour out of my day - this is going on my
fourth try and countless hours at this point. Thanks all for the help
so far.

BTW - the free version of Casper won't partition the extra space on a
new larger drive, so only 28g of the new 80g drive would be usable, so
I didn't even try it.

 

[Timothy Daniels]

BTW - the free version of Casper won't partition the
extra space on a new larger drive, so only 28g of the
new 80g drive would be usable...

How did you come the *that* conclusion? There is
no 28GB limit that *I've* ever come across, and I've
placed clones on at least 120GB of new drive space.
Casper offers to put a clone into an existing partition
(which you can make with Disk Management) or it
can make a partition in unallocated space of the size
that you designate. I suspect that you've misread
something or read some spurious comment on an
online forum. Just download Casper XP and try it.
You'll like it.

*TimDaniels*

 

[Timothy Daniels]

I used True Image to clone the disk using the clone drive wizard.
Everything seemed to work fine and it copied everything rather quickly,
a nice surprise, HOWEVER... there is a really wierd situation now.
The new 80gig drive is set as the master drive. When I boot into
windows it is the only drive that shows in Windows Explorer even though
the old drive is still connected as a slave. Wierder still is that if
I disconnect the old drive the computer will not boot into windows -
instead giving an error message that it cannot locate a boot disk, or
boot file or something like that. When I reconnect the old drive as
the slave it boots into windows on the new drive with no problem.
Bizarre. Windows doesn't even show the old drive, but it can't boot
the new drive without it. Can anyone shed some light on this.

When you look with Windows Explorer, how do you know you're
looking at the new HD? What do you see when you look with
Disk Management? (rt-clk MyComputer, select Manage, select
Disk Management.) The size given for each HD is one way to
identify the HDs.

*TimDaniels*

 

[Rod Speed]

OK folks -
I used True Image to clone the disk using the clone drive wizard.
Everything seemed to work fine and it copied everything rather
quickly, a nice surprise, HOWEVER... there is a really wierd
situation now.
The new 80gig drive is set as the master drive. When I boot into
windows it is the only drive that shows in Windows Explorer even
though the old drive is still connected as a slave. Wierder still is
that if I disconnect the old drive the computer will not boot into
windows - instead giving an error message that it cannot locate a
boot disk, or boot file or something like that. When I reconnect the
old drive as the slave it boots into windows on the new drive with no
problem. Bizarre.

Nope, very common problem. You booted the new drive with
the old drive visible to the system for the first boot after the clone.

Windows doesn't even show the old drive, but it can't boot
the new drive without it. Can anyone shed some light on this.

See above.

I'd love to have this work the way it should.

Just do it again, and this time unplug the old drive for the
first boot after the clone. Once XP has claimed to have
found new hardware and asked for a reboot, and has
been allowed to do that, you can reconnect the old
drive again and everything will work fine.

I truly can't believe how complicated this
process has become in the past couple years.

Nothing 'complicated' about the above sequence.

This used to take me one try and an hour out of
my day - this is going on my fourth try and countless
hours at this point. Thanks all for the help so far.

BTW - the free version of Casper won't partition the
extra space on a new larger drive, so only 28g of the
new 80g drive would be usable, so I didn't even try it.

Yeah, its pretty limited capability wise.

 

[Anna]

OK folks -
I used True Image to clone the disk using the clone drive wizard.
Everything seemed to work fine and it copied everything rather quickly,
a nice surprise, HOWEVER... there is a really wierd situation now.
The new 80gig drive is set as the master drive. When I boot into
windows it is the only drive that shows in Windows Explorer even though
the old drive is still connected as a slave. Wierder still is that if
I disconnect the old drive the computer will not boot into windows -
instead giving an error message that it cannot locate a boot disk, or
boot file or something like that. When I reconnect the old drive as
the slave it boots into windows on the new drive with no problem.
Bizarre. Windows doesn't even show the old drive, but it can't boot
the new drive without it. Can anyone shed some light on this. I'd
love to have this work the way it should. I truly can't believe how
complicated this process has become in the past couple years. This
used to take me one try and an hour out of my day - this is going on my
fourth try and countless hours at this point. Thanks all for the help
so far.

BTW - the free version of Casper won't partition the extra space on a
new larger drive, so only 28g of the new 80g drive would be usable, so
I didn't even try it.

stevsai:
While I'm not entirely sure from your description of the problem and how you
arrived at your present state, let me offer the following and see if it's
relevant to your situation...

After you cloned the contents of your "old" HD to the "new" one you should
have made the initial boot to the newly-cloned HD with the old (source) HD
disconnected. It's important that the *initial* boot to the newly-cloned HD
be made with *only* that HD connected (as Tim Daniels has stressed a number
of times).

Is it possible that following the cloning operation you booted to the
newly-cloned HD (which you now connected as Primary Master) while the "old"
HD was still connected in the system (regardless of its position on the IDE
channel)? If that is what occurred I think I can shed some light on the
events that followed. So let me know if that indeed was the case.
Anna

 

[Andy]

OK folks -
I used True Image to clone the disk using the clone drive wizard.
Everything seemed to work fine and it copied everything rather quickly,
a nice surprise, HOWEVER... there is a really wierd situation now.
The new 80gig drive is set as the master drive. When I boot into
windows it is the only drive that shows in Windows Explorer even though
the old drive is still connected as a slave. Wierder still is that if
I disconnect the old drive the computer will not boot into windows -
instead giving an error message that it cannot locate a boot disk, or
boot file or something like that. When I reconnect the old drive as
the slave it boots into windows on the new drive with no problem.
Bizarre. Windows doesn't even show the old drive, but it can't boot
the new drive without it.

Are you saying that Disk Managment does not show the old drive?

Can anyone shed some light on this. I'd
love to have this work the way it should. I truly can't believe how
complicated this process has become in the past couple years. This
used to take me one try and an hour out of my day - this is going on my
fourth try and countless hours at this point. Thanks all for the help
so far.

The quickest way to get going is to save the old drive's MBR to a
floppy disk. <http://mirror.href.com/thestarman/asm/mbr/MBRWiz.html>
Then remove the old drive and replace it with the clone. Then restore
the clone's MBR with the saved MBR. This should enable the clone to
boot by itself.

 

[Rod Speed]

Are you saying that Disk Managment does not show the old drive?


The quickest way to get going is to save the old drive's MBR to a
floppy disk. <http://mirror.href.com/thestarman/asm/mbr/MBRWiz.html>
Then remove the old drive and replace it with the clone. Then restore
the clone's MBR with the saved MBR. This should enable the clone to
boot by itself.

Not when you stuffed it up by booting the clone with the original visible
you cant.

 

[v.sch]

Hardly anyone is silly enough to do single partition cloning.

Rod, I take exception to that. I and others do periodic system
reinstalls on several 300G drives I have due to all the clutter that
quickly accumulates. I sure don't want to clone 250G of MPs and
photos. What I do is keep a fresh install of Xp and other apps on a
40G drive and only clone the first partition of the main larger drive.
All takes less than 15 minutes.