best antispy program

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From: "ANONYMOUS" <[email protected]>


| You only come to hear when people have problems. What is the point of
| posting to a newsgroup if everything is working fine? Only problems are
| posted - not successes!
|
| According to MS, there are 25+ million active customers. How many have
| you come across with problems so far?

I don't care what Microsoft says. They should NOT be suggesting Beta software on un-paid
Beta testers. The gfact is there are MORE users using software such as Ad-aware SE and
SpyBot S&D and the posts complaining about them are many factors less.
 
Are you saying that David Lipman is liar when he says: "Condsidering how
many posts I constantly see of people indicating problems
with it and its failure to remove malware". David is an experienced
Security Expert (or appears to be one) and he should know what he is
talking about.

No, and David and I communicate every week or so, and I have a great
amount of respect for David, but I also work with clients and their home
computers and friends and such around the USA, and my experience with
masses of people is different. While he's seeing posts in Usenet, and I
agree with his statement, I also see people in the "wild" that have been
protected. Maybe you should look at his AND my statement and determine
where the problem users failed with the product - I just replied in
another group, I pasted it below for your benefit.
In business whether or not customers know anything about the product is
irrelevant. Customers should be given the benefit of doubt. If they
know little about usenets then there wasn't the necessity for them to
research into this. Had they any need for this service, they would have
known from people like you who will go out of their way to educate and
inform these people. NECESSITY IS THE MOTHER OF INVENTION!!

I don't want to carry on this topic. I am a satified user of Windows
Defender Beta 2 and that is all matters to me. David Lipman is an
experienced security expert (or appears to be one) and I value his
expertise in such matters. As far as you are concerned, I have no
record of your expertise on any matters except that you like arguing and
to take an opposite view on everything and to waste everybody's time.

I understand you position, I understand that "Some" people have problems
with Norton, I understand that MANY people have problems with NIS (and I
would never use NIS personally or professionally).

The simple fact is that we have unmanaged clients, a couple Sororities,
and I consider these the worst of the worst - they run P2P apps, they
all use outdated IM software, they click on anything that presents
itself, they do all sorts of bad security things...

Every year we clean their workstations/laptops before the can put them
on the house network, we also maintain them during the year.

At the start of the year, the only machines that are close to being
clean are the ones running Norton (or Symantec Corp) or the one we got
this year running Panda. Every computer running any other form of AV had
malware of one type of another. All of the ones running AVG had anywhere
from several to hundreds of malware items - mostly trojans.

During the school year, the only students we get calls from, and we
check monthly too, are the ones running AVG. These infected users have
kept their updates set to once a day, run the weekly test, but still get
compromised.

Now, as to norton still allowing compromise, I'm sure that there are
going to be cases where every av product allows something through that
it should have stopped - in fact, I've seen every AV product mentioned
in this group allow 0-day threats through at least once, but, on a
properly configured machine, with a subscription set to update once a
day, I have never seen a computer running a valid/current norton
compromised by anything other than a 0-day exploit (which puts it in the
class as being as good as everything else in the same situation). As for
known viruses/malware, I've never seen a properly maintained or even a
half-maintained norton installation compromised.

Again, I understand it happens, I know it happens, I know that none of
the systems, and we have clients all over the US (and some outside) and
their home computers, and clients that we consider "in-the-wild", and
family and friends, all running Norton/Symantec AV solutions (not the
suites), and none of them have been compromised.

I stand by this review, as I can't dispute any of their findings:
http://www.av-comparatives.org/seiten/ergebnisse_2006_02.php
 
David said:
I don't care what Microsoft says. They should NOT be suggesting Beta
software on un-paid Beta testers. The gfact is there are MORE users
using software such as Ad-aware SE and SpyBot S&D and the posts
complaining about them are many factors less.

And Google is just as bad or even worse than MS about promoting the use
of BETA software to the masses of computer illiterati.

BETA software is unsupported testing software. If it is ready for the
masses to use, then the tag of BETA should be removed, and the software
title should be fully supported.

--
Peace!
Kurt Kirsch
Self-anointed Moderator
http://microscum.com
"It'll soon shake your Windows
And rattle your walls
For the times they are a-changin'."
 
From: "kurttrail" <[email protected]>

| And Google is just as bad or even worse than MS about promoting the use
| of BETA software to the masses of computer illiterati.
|
| BETA software is unsupported testing software. If it is ready for the
| masses to use, then the tag of BETA should be removed, and the software
| title should be fully supported.
|

Y E S !
 
kurttrail said:
BETA software is unsupported testing software. If it is ready for the
masses to use, then the tag of BETA should be removed, and the
software title should be fully supported.

I have to agree. Microsoft is not doing anybody a service by releasing
"Beta" software in wide public release. If it is Beta software then it
should be in a controlled release with well defined reporting methods a la
Vista or Office 12. If it is software they don't wish to support then they
should release it as unsupported software. Calling it Beta when it clearly
is not confuses the public and may cause unsupecting users to download real
Beta software and then wonder what went wrong when their computer gets
messed up.
 
Beta software should be released to the public for testing. How else is
Microsoft going to find and fix the bugs? There are thousands of
configurations out there and there is no way a controlled release or testing
can possibly cover everything. It's through public feedback that things get
fixed.
 
Betina said:
Beta software should be released to the public for testing. How
else is Microsoft going to find and fix the bugs? There are
thousands of configurations out there and there is no way a
controlled release or testing can possibly cover everything. It's
through public feedback that things get fixed.

While I agree in principle - it should be released to the public - I think
more hoops should have to be jumped through to actually get it and install
it. The problem is the thousands of people who get it, install it, use it
and never know that beta meant something. They just thought it was a part
of the name.

Release it to the public. Okay - fine. But make them fill out a form with
their name/email and get and email in return for doing so letting them know
where to get the latest version of the beta as well as the spiel about what
it is (what a beta is) etc. Force the user to take a second to think about
what they are getting.
 
Betina said:
Beta software should be released to the public for testing. How else
is Microsoft going to find and fix the bugs? There are thousands of
configurations out there and there is no way a controlled release or
testing can possibly cover everything. It's through public feedback
that things get fixed.

MS barely responds to the problems found by its annointed Beta Testers.

Are you willing to test out an AIDS vaccine when it is in the
development stage?

I think you and all your family & friends should. That way they get all
of the bugs out of it before me and my smart friends receive the vaccine
in its final form. And of course the only way to see if it is effective
is to inject you with HIV after you are immunized and wait for years to
see if you get full blown out AIDS.

The same with testing software. Please get all your family and friends
to be volunteer guinea pigs for every BETA software title out there.
That would be what's in the best interests of my computer environment,
and that of my smart friends and family.

"Betina the MicroGuineaPig" should be your newsgroup name.

--
Peace!
Kurt Kirsch
Self-anointed Moderator
http://microscum.com
"It'll soon shake your Windows
And rattle your walls
For the times they are a-changin'."
 
Having a link on your homepage www.microsoft.com to download "Beta" software
is not a Beta program. It is releasing an application to the public and
saying we don't want to support this so don't bug us when something goes
wrong. Having a procedure where you sign up for a testing program and have a
clearly defined method of reporting bugs as in the Visa Beta program is a
Beta program. Having such a public Beta program as with WD gets unsuspecting
consumers used to using Beta software and believing that Beta software is
another name for free software. I agree that it is hard to get a wide enough
Beta release to cover all possible configurations. That is one of the
problems with developing software. Most other companies and even Microsoft
with it's other products don't have such widely distributed Betas. With WD
it appears to me that Microsoft was getting a lot of flack about spyware so
they just put something out there to make the flack go away. They don't want
to spend the effort to properly support it so they call it Beta software.
 
Your analogy is flawed. I don't have AIDS, if I did I would test whatever
vaccine is out there considering there is no cure. Ask anyone with AIDS to
beta test a vaccine and they will probably says yes. AIDS kill software does
not.
 
No company publicly supports any Beta software that they put out, but on the
other hand MS has created newsgroups specifically for WD and they do that
for all their beta releases. It is not MS responsibility to educate the
public what the definition of the word Beta means.
 
If you had AIDs you would not be a good candidate to test a vaccine. You
would be a candidate to test a cure.
 
Betina said:
Your analogy is flawed. I don't have AIDS, if I did I would test
whatever vaccine is out there considering there is no cure.

Once you have AIDS there is no need for a vaccine to prevent AIDS
infection. A bit too late then.
Ask
anyone with AIDS to beta test a vaccine and they will probably says
yes. AIDS kill software does not.

Really? If software causes a blackout, and people die during the
blackout that wouldn't have died if there was no blackout, what is the
cause of their deaths?

BETA software is meant for testing computer environments. Period.

But you have every right to endanger your non-testing computer
environment as a guinea pig. Just don't try to tell me that you are
intelligent, as your actions would say otherwise.



--
Peace!
Kurt Kirsch
Self-anointed Moderator
http://microscum.com
"It'll soon shake your Windows
And rattle your walls
For the times they are a-changin'."
 
We're not going to agree on this so I'll quit responding. Our understanding
of the term beta software appears to be fundamentally different. All we are
doing is arguing about our definitions.
 
Betina said:
No company publicly supports any Beta software that they put out, but
on the other hand MS has created newsgroups specifically for WD and
they do that for all their beta releases. It is not MS responsibility
to educate the public what the definition of the word Beta means.

LOL! Newsgroups are for peer support. And we as peers are taking the
responsibility to explain what BETA means. MS's EULAs are all about MS
shirking their responsibility for their software, BETA or GOLD.

--
Peace!
Kurt Kirsch
Self-anointed Moderator
http://microscum.com
"It'll soon shake your Windows
And rattle your walls
For the times they are a-changin'."
 
There is something interesting happening within the software industry and it
has been going on for some time.

When a package of software is released, there is always some level of "bugs"
included as well as features that may not have made it into the release.
Furthermore, with time there are new features that is desirable. Thus
service packs. They normally take quite awhile to appear because of all the
testing required in additional to the time to develop them.
Some software providers are now releasing updates with limited testing and
call them beta updates. It allows for much more time responsive updates and
new feature incorporation at some level of risk to the user. It might
become the trend of the future
 
Jon_Hildrum said:
There is something interesting happening within the software industry
and it has been going on for some time.

When a package of software is released, there is always some level of
"bugs" included as well as features that may not have made it into
the release. Furthermore, with time there are new features that is
desirable. Thus service packs. They normally take quite awhile to
appear because of all the testing required in additional to the time
to develop them. Some software providers are now releasing updates
with limited
testing and call them beta updates. It allows for much more time
responsive updates and new feature incorporation at some level of
risk to the user. It might become the trend of the future

IMO, not a good trend. BETA should mean "For testing purposes in
testing environments only." Period.

Confusing the general public with a continually shifting definition of
what BETA means, it negligent, at best, and Google, MS, and any other
corporation that is purposefully trying to blur the definition of what
BETA means should be held financially responsible for this negligence
causes on the computers of the computer illiterati.

--
Peace!
Kurt Kirsch
Self-anointed Moderator
http://microscum.com
"It'll soon shake your Windows
And rattle your walls
For the times they are a-changin'."
 
kurttrail said:
Are you willing to test out an AIDS vaccine when it is in the
development stage?

People who have got aids have nothing to lose in testing AIDS vaccine
even if it is in development stage. They are dying anyway and they will
die should the vaccine prove to be fatal!!
 
Betina said:
Your analogy is flawed. I don't have AIDS, if I did I would test whatever
vaccine is out there considering there is no cure. Ask anyone with AIDS to
beta test a vaccine and they will probably says yes. AIDS kill software does
not.


AGREED 100%
 
kurttrail said:
Are you willing to test out an AIDS vaccine when it is in the
development stage?
People who have got aids have nothing to lose in testing AIDS
vaccine even if it is in development stage. They are dying anyway
and they will die should the vaccine prove to be fatal!!

hMMM..

vac-cine
Pronunciation: vak-'sEn, 'vak-"
Function: noun
-- a preparation of killed microorganisms, living attenuated organisms, or
living fully virulent organisms that is administered to produce or
artificially increase immunity to a particular disease

In other words... Those taking the vaccine do not have the disease.

What you are thinking of is a cure. Since the vaccine is usually made up of
'dormant' or 'dead' versions of the virus/organism that cause the disease so
your body can harmlessly produce the antibodies and thus have a built-in
method of fighting if it gets attaked by the real thing - I know I wouldn't
want to *test* the vaccine. What if one of those little buggers fooled
them?
 
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