Battery Backup devices

  • Thread starter Thread starter George
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G

George

Hi,
Can anyone tell me something about this battery backup....APC 350VA Back-UPS
ES 350? One of the things
it mentions in the specs, is something about "auto shutdown software". Does
anyone know about this and what it
actually does and is it needed?

thanks,
Geo
 
George said:
Hi,
Can anyone tell me something about this battery backup....APC 350VA Back-UPS
ES 350? One of the things
it mentions in the specs, is something about "auto shutdown software". Does
anyone know about this and what it
actually does and is it needed?

thanks,
Geo
Click to expand...

A 350V unit is not very large, and will only support a small system in
my opinion. I would not consider anything less than a 500VA unit. I
don't know anything about the software issue, sorry.
 
George said:
Hi,
Can anyone tell me something about this battery backup....APC 350VA
Back-UPS
ES 350? One of the things
it mentions in the specs, is something about "auto shutdown software".
Does
anyone know about this and what it
actually does and is it needed?

thanks,
Geo
Click to expand...

If there is a power outage the software will shut the pc down when the
battery
reaches a certain level. Older models had a serial cable the newer ones use
USB.
A UPS is a must in certain parts of the world where the power is tenuous.
 
Ken said:
A 350V unit is not very large, and will only support a small system in my
opinion. I would not consider anything less than a 500VA unit. I don't
know anything about the software issue, sorry.
Click to expand...

I have two 500VA APC units and when the power even flickers
for a second, the PC on them (and that's the only thing on each
one, no monitor or any other device) immediately shut off.

I called APC and they tell me that my machines with a 350W
power supply are pulling more power than 500VA and that
I need larger units. From everything I've read here, this
should be enough to keep the PC alive at least for a couple
of minutes (I don't have a mega-PC or video card). You
might want to opt for an even larger UPS than 500VA.

If you're near a CompUSA, check out this link.
http://www.slickdeals.net/#p5461
In store TODAY ONLY they have a 900VA unit for $30.
 
Rob said:
I have two 500VA APC units and when the power even flickers
for a second, the PC on them (and that's the only thing on each
one, no monitor or any other device) immediately shut off.

I called APC and they tell me that my machines with a 350W
power supply are pulling more power than 500VA and that
I need larger units. From everything I've read here, this
should be enough to keep the PC alive at least for a couple
of minutes (I don't have a mega-PC or video card). You
might want to opt for an even larger UPS than 500VA.

If you're near a CompUSA, check out this link.
http://www.slickdeals.net/#p5461
In store TODAY ONLY they have a 900VA unit for $30.
Click to expand...

I power my P4-2.8gHz, 1gB machine and LCD monitor from a 350VA APC UPS with
no problems. I use an older 500VA APC unit on another box of the same
description along with a 17" CRT monitor - again, no probs. I get at least
5-10 minutes on battery.

Are you sure your UPS batteries are fully charged and in good condition? I
have had UPS batteries fail after a year of service. Others last five
years or longer.

Test each UPS by loading it with a known load - one, two or three 100 watt
light bulbs to produce loads of 100/200/300 VA. Unplug the UPS while its
powering the bulbs. Does it pick up the load?

Roby
 
Rob said:
I have two 500VA APC units and when the power even flickers
for a second, the PC on them (and that's the only thing on each
one, no monitor or any other device) immediately shut off.
Click to expand...

1) Did you try pulling the plug when the UPS was new?
2) Did the power go off sometime and completely drain the battery? That
would tend to damage the battery.

500VA is enough to run an ordinary computer with or without a monitor.

Probably the battery is shot, but it could also be something wrong with
the charging system.

You can buy a replacement battery online somewhere. Google for the
battery's model number. The important parameters are voltage, type
(Sealed Lead Acid), and physical dimensions. It will cost you something
like $20.
 
Matt said:
500VA is enough to run an ordinary computer with or without a monitor.
Click to expand...

Uh oh. Now I notice that it may be overloaded if you plug in the
monitor too.

Note that if your computer's supply is putting out 350W, it is consuming
something like 525W, since it is only about 2/3 efficient.
 
....
I have two 500VA APC units and when the power even flickers
for a second, the PC on them (and that's the only thing on each
one, no monitor or any other device) immediately shut off.
I called APC and they tell me that my machines with a 350W
power supply are pulling more power than 500VA and that
I need larger units. From everything I've read here, this
should be enough to keep the PC alive at least for a couple
of minutes (I don't have a mega-PC or video card). You
might want to opt for an even larger UPS than 500VA.
Click to expand...

For what it's worth.

I think what you're talking about are two separate qualities. One
quality is how long a backup power supply can run a system. The other
issue is whether that same backup power supply can run that same
system at all. The backup power supply must be able to smoothly
source/push enough current, that instant when your house power fails.

I think what they're saying is justifiable only if the volt-amp
rating is far below what your system should have. Otherwise, maybe
you can find a higher-quality battery backup.

Good luck.
 
Matt said:
1) Did you try pulling the plug when the UPS was new?
2) Did the power go off sometime and completely drain the battery? That
would tend to damage the battery.

500VA is enough to run an ordinary computer with or without a monitor.

Probably the battery is shot, but it could also be something wrong with
the charging system.

You can buy a replacement battery online somewhere. Google for the
battery's model number. The important parameters are voltage, type
(Sealed Lead Acid), and physical dimensions. It will cost you something
like $20.
Click to expand...

Ill have to try some of these experiments. Both UPS are brand new. In fact
I only bought one from Office Depot, I called and complained that it didn't
work
so they sent me another one free. The second one did the same thing, so I
called
APC and they told me I was overloading the things. However I knew
they were full of it since I had seen posts from others with the same UPS
with much more powerful systems getting at least a few minutes out of these
things, but I had no way to prove APC tech support wrong.
 
Rob said:
I called and complained that it didn't
work
so they sent me another one free. The second one did the same thing,
Click to expand...

Is your house wiring okay? Probably the UPS has an indicator light that
tests whether the voltage is right and the ground is functional.
 
Rob said:
so they sent me another one free. The second one did the same thing, so I
Click to expand...

Is the unit turned on? I believe you have to press a button to turn it
on---it isn't enough to just plug everything in.
 
Matt said:
Is the unit turned on? I believe you have to press a button to turn it
on---it isn't enough to just plug everything in.
Click to expand...

I think that may be his problem.
I know my UPS needs the button pushed so that the light comes on.

My UPS is only a 350VA, and I only have 1 computer plugged into it with the
monitor plugged into a regular surge protector. It works great this way with
only a 350va UPS because I usually only have momentary power outages, but
they occur often here.


..
 
John Doe said:
...


For what it's worth.

I think what you're talking about are two separate qualities. One
quality is how long a backup power supply can run a system. The other
issue is whether that same backup power supply can run that same
system at all. The backup power supply must be able to smoothly
source/push enough current, that instant when your house power fails.

I think what they're saying is justifiable only if the volt-amp
rating is far below what your system should have. Otherwise, maybe
you can find a higher-quality battery backup.

Good luck.
Click to expand...

yes, this is what they were saying. i just ordered a kill-a-watt
device that measures VA draw as well as other things for anything
plugged into it. I should be able to determine how much max VA
my system draws by just plugging the UPS into the KAW.
 
Martin G.1.0 said:
I think that may be his problem.
I know my UPS needs the button pushed so that the light comes on.

My UPS is only a 350VA, and I only have 1 computer plugged into it with
the monitor plugged into a regular surge protector. It works great this
way with only a 350va UPS because I usually only have momentary power
outages, but they occur often here.
Click to expand...

if only it were that simple :). yes, it is on (button on top with lit green
power indicator)
 
Rob said:
if only it were that simple :). yes, it is on (button on top with lit
green power indicator)
Click to expand...
Have you checked the inside where the batteries are to make sure there is
nothing covering the contacts like some film or tape or something? Or that
the batteries are properly connected?
I really think a 500va UPS should at least give your computer a couple of
minutes at least, before shutting down.
 
Martin said:
Have you checked the inside where the batteries are to make sure there is
nothing covering the contacts like some film or tape or something? Or that
the batteries are properly connected?
I really think a 500va UPS should at least give your computer a couple of
minutes at least, before shutting down.
Click to expand...

Looking at all the things he says he's tried I'm beginning to suspect the
power supply in the computer itself. That maybe it doesn't have enough hold
up time to last through the UPS switch to standby power.
 
David Maynard said:
Looking at all the things he says he's tried I'm beginning to suspect the
power supply in the computer itself. That maybe it doesn't have enough
hold up time to last through the UPS switch to standby power.
Click to expand...
Maybe, but I've never heard of this.
We're talking a nanosecond or less, so I doubt that's the case.
 
Have you checked the inside where the batteries are to make sure there is
nothing covering the contacts like some film or tape or something? Or that
the batteries are properly connected?
I really think a 500va UPS should at least give your computer a couple of
minutes at least, before shutting down.
Click to expand...

And one other thing to check:
If its an APC UPS (and possibly other mfgrs) it comes from the factory
with the battery disconnected. On the APCs, there is a jumper plug tied
on with a string that must be plugged into a socket on the rear to
connect the battery. There is a hold down bracket that must be removed
to insert the plug, then replaced and screwed down to keep the jumper
plug in place. You can plug the jumper in without removing the bracket,
but it wouldn't do ya no good as it won't be in far enough to connect.
 
Rich Greenberg said:
And one other thing to check:
If its an APC UPS (and possibly other mfgrs) it comes from the factory
with the battery disconnected. On the APCs, there is a jumper plug tied
on with a string that must be plugged into a socket on the rear to
connect the battery. There is a hold down bracket that must be removed
to insert the plug, then replaced and screwed down to keep the jumper
plug in place. You can plug the jumper in without removing the bracket,
but it wouldn't do ya no good as it won't be in far enough to connect.

--
Rich Greenberg N6LRT Marietta, GA, USA richgr atsign panix.com + 1 770 321
6507
Eastern time zone. I speak for myself & my dogs only. VM'er since
CP-67
Canines:Val, Red & Shasta (RIP),Red, husky
Owner:Chinook-L
Atlanta Siberian Husky Rescue. www.panix.com/~richgr/ Asst
Owner:Sibernet-L
Click to expand...

What mine had was a battery cover that you removed with a screwdriver. The
battery had
a 2 pin molex connector that was not plugged in to the APC. I plugged in
this connector,
put it back together, plugged it into the wall, turned it on, installed the
PowerChute v1.5
personal edition software that came with it. PowerChute reports battery
capacity at 100%
and "your backup battery is operating normally".
 
Martin said:
Maybe, but I've never heard of this.
We're talking a nanosecond or less, so I doubt that's the case.
Click to expand...

No, we're not talking 'a nanosecond or less'. At least not for what is
being called a 'UPS' in these small systems.

In a 'true' Uninterruptable Power System the output inverter is always
driven by the DC source and all that happens when power fails is the
battery charge ceases. The output is truly 'uninterrupted'.

These small units, however, are, most commonly, really standby 'UPS' where
AC is fed to the output when AC is up and when AC is lost the inverter is
switched on. There is, therefor, a period of time needed to detect the lost
of AC, to know it's time to turn on the inverter and switch the output over
to it, and some time for the inverter to take over. I.E. a "transfer time."

Transfer time varies between 1 to 10 ms, depending on the unit, but it's
typically around 4ms (depends where in the cycle power is 'lost').

Now, 4ms shouldn't normally be a problem but some power supplies are
sensitive to the stepped sine wave (vs a 'pure' sine wave) the lower cost
inverters generate. And if the supply is operating near it's capacitor
bank's capacity then it takes almost all just to stay operating when AC is
present. AC disruption, coupled with sensitivity to the non-pure sine wave
to begin with, could cause it to 'glitch' if the capacitor bank droops
below what's needed to maintain regulation.
 
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