Banding on Epson R1800

[Guillaume Dargaud]

Hello all,
this morning I started having a problem with my Epson R1800: there are some
clearer bands of varying width (up to several cm) across the print.

The diagnostic prints of the driver run fine and I've done a bunch of head
cleanings without difference. The bands are not sharp, they just show like
slightly clearer areas, but they are very visible on dark prints. All tanks
are at least half full...

Any idea what may be the cause/solution ?

 

[frederick]

Hello all,
this morning I started having a problem with my Epson R1800: there are some
clearer bands of varying width (up to several cm) across the print.

The diagnostic prints of the driver run fine and I've done a bunch of head
cleanings without difference. The bands are not sharp, they just show like
slightly clearer areas, but they are very visible on dark prints. All tanks
are at least half full...

Any idea what may be the cause/solution ?

If the diagnostic test (nozzle check) indicates no problem, then do you
have the right paper type selected for the paper that you are using?

 

[bmoag]

You need to contact Epson.
I hope your printer is still under warranty.

 

[measekite]

Are you using and have you always used Epson Ultrachrome ink?

 

[Bullitt]

Hi Guillaume:

If you're using OEM inks, they're all pigment-based for this model.
Pigment-based inks are generally more subsceptible to clogging than
dye-based because of the suspended colour particles.

If the banding is at regular intervals down the page, regardless of
their individual width, it would appear to me to still be a printhead
issue.

http://files.support.epson.com/pdf/r1800_/r1800_ug.pdf

In the R1800 user guide, there is a paragraph specifically on banding
(pages 93-95). The first suggestion is to perform full printhead
cleaning. Can you confirm that you've followed all the stated
printhead cleaning procedures (pages 73-76), including the manual
method? It sounds like the automatic method may only have
accomplished partial cleaning since you're stlll not getting full ink
coverage.

One review of this printer
(http://www.cnet.com.au/printers/photo/0,239035497,240055142,00.htm)
mentions "finicky nozzles" and recommends running a nozzle
check after a few days of printer inactivity. This also seems to
support clogged nozzles.

Since the printhead is not removeable, running alternate cleaning
cycles and nozzle checks are likely your only way to clear the clog.
Iit's not a waste of ink if it gets the printhead unclogged.

Any other suggestions?

 

[Arthur Entlich]

Barring a problem with the paper itself, you probably are having
intermittent clogs.

For more information on how to resolve these, email me at:

e-printerhelp(at)mvps(dot)org

(at) = @
(dot) = .

I can send you a free document which explains how to clear your
printer's heads without removing them.

Art

 

[Guillaume Dargaud]

In answer to the various questions:
- original Epson ink
- Moab satin paper, color calibrated (not that it matters as the banding is
_very_ visible)

Some updates:
Yesterday I performed several head cleanings/alignements and it seemed to
get back to normal at first. I had to print a stack of 33x95cm posters. Only
the first 5 came out fine, after that I had the problem again (and a stack
of wasted expensive paper).

On some of the nozzle check patterns, some of the tiny rectangles are
sometimes offset in position (it overlaps the top one). Probably related to
that, upon looking closely at one of the failed prints, in one of the banded
areas the print appears to be double, just like if some heads had the wrong
positioning (we are talking about 1 or 2 mm).
I just ran a new one and _half_ of the rectangles were white on the first
run of the cyan (with a new cartrige). Is that _normal_ ? (third one is
fine).

Is it possible that some heads are loose and just move around ?!?
On page 74 they say to turn off the printer overnight. Seems like a strange
solution, but I haven't turned mine off for months, so I can give it a shot.

I'm always cautious to run the printer regularly, but I didn't use it much
for a month and now it's bonked...
--
Guillaume Dargaud
http://www.gdargaud.net/


----- Original Message -----
From: "Bullitt" <[email protected]>
Newsgroups: comp.periphs.printers
Sent: Friday, October 20, 2006 04:47
Subject: Re: Banding on Epson R1800

 

[Shooter]

Two things come to mind that you have a small amount of air in the carts and
second that the heads are reflecting when they fire caused by a stubborn
particle of ink which has attached to the print heads. If the printer
belonged to myself I would remove all the carts and tap them by flicking my
fingers several times around the centre of the carts in a hope of releasing
the air or tap lightly on a solid surface. On replacing the carts do not
clean or print a nozzle test but run a Purge sheet for all the cart colours,
run several sheets of up to six and check the first and last. If all is well
run a nozzle test. I have also found that Epson Photo Printers that use
pigment ink are quite sensitive to types of paper, get hold of some Epson
paper and see if there is any difference.

 

[measekite]

Are you using and have you always used the ink that Epson specifies for
the printer.

 

[PrintRLM]

no i am using a continuies ink system, which works great but im having
a prob with photo black, and no idea how to do a manual head cleaning.
what parts do i take off and what do i use to clean it (a clean
sponge???)
any help you can give me in this area would be great.
Thanks
Richy

 

[Arthur Entlich]

It it were just banding, I would look at the heads and nozzle clogs but
if this alignment problem and banding problem occur together (and it is
not just a matter that the alignment problem is getting covered up when
the banding doesn't show) this may be pointing to a cabling problem, or
a timing problem caused by something interfering with the driver.

I have seem this occur with bad cabling between the printer and
computer, intermittent contact at the cable connections, or USB
interfacing problems. Make sure you are using good cables that are
firmly connected, and see if the problem is eliminated when you do not
attempt to multitask during printing. If the connection an be made
between running another process or program during printing, it may be
software that doesn't get along, or a corrupted driver.

Art

 

[frederick]

It it were just banding, I would look at the heads and nozzle clogs but
if this alignment problem and banding problem occur together (and it is
not just a matter that the alignment problem is getting covered up when
the banding doesn't show) this may be pointing to a cabling problem, or
a timing problem caused by something interfering with the driver.

I have seem this occur with bad cabling between the printer and
computer, intermittent contact at the cable connections, or USB
interfacing problems. Make sure you are using good cables that are
firmly connected, and see if the problem is eliminated when you do not
attempt to multitask during printing. If the connection an be made
between running another process or program during printing, it may be
software that doesn't get along, or a corrupted driver.

Is "high speed" off in the driver? There is a note that this can cause
banding / alignment problems - although I have never seen this with my
R1800.

If you're sure that the nozzles are clear and that alignment is okay
then there are a couple of other possibilities mentioned in the service
manual.
One is dust/dirt on the paper feed roller. I'm not sure of the best
method (without disassembling) how this could be cleaned. For this
printer using cleaning sheets supplied in OEM paper packs is
specifically mentioned as something not to do as it can cause paper jams.
You can carefully use a vacuum cleaner to clean out the insides of the
printer, including rear feeder slots etc. Take care doing this.
Dust or dirt on the carriage shaft obstructing the carriage assembly
movement may also cause problems. Don't apply any lubricant - as this
needs to be done properly with the printer disassembled, but careful
cleaning any obvious dirt off shouldn't be a problem.
Another possibility mentioned is loose ribbon cable connectors at the
printhead or main board. Some disassembly would be required to even
check this.
Of course there are more serious possibilities, but IMO more likely not
to be intermittent.

 

[Guillaume Dargaud]

Thanks all for your indications.

Is "high speed" off in the driver? There is a note that this can cause
banding / alignment problems - although I have never seen this with my
R1800.

I've just tried that. 2 meters of roll printed fine, and then again lighter
banded areas in the print, another meter of roll to throw away. From what
I've thrown away in the last two days I could have bought a new printer.

What is really annoying is that after a bunch of head cleaning sessions I
can print fine a few panoramas, but then in the middle of the 3rd or 4th one
the problem manifests itself again.

I'm now initiating a warranty repair, unless someone has a magic trick up
his sleeve.
--
Guillaume Dargaud
http://www.gdargaud.net/
"I look forward to the invention of faster-than-light travel. What I'm not
looking forward to is the long wait in the dark once I arrive at my
destination." - Marc Beland.

 

[frederick]

Thanks all for your indications.

I've just tried that. 2 meters of roll printed fine, and then again lighter
banded areas in the print, another meter of roll to throw away. From what
I've thrown away in the last two days I could have bought a new printer.

What is really annoying is that after a bunch of head cleaning sessions I
can print fine a few panoramas, but then in the middle of the 3rd or 4th one
the problem manifests itself again.

I'm now initiating a warranty repair, unless someone has a magic trick up
his sleeve.

I think that's a good idea.
The only other "obvious" things that I can think of are the possibility
that you have some counterfeit cartridges or ink is well past "use-by"
date. Counterfeit cartridges were being sold in Europe - they looked
very close to original, but caused some users big problems. I can give
you a url to some photos and instructions on how to identify the fakes
if you think it's worth it. If that was the problem - then it doesn't
have to mean that your warranty is void.
Also tell them that you have used many $ worth of ink a paper trying to
solve the problem, and ask politely for compensation. They have been
known to be quite generous on this sometimes.

 

[measekite]

Are you using genuine Epson ink and Epson carts now and always in the past.

 

[Bullitt]

Hi Guillaume:

I was just browsing around the net, and found this site on how to
solve stubborn banding / clogging problems on Epsons by manually
cleaning the printhead without having to disassemble the printer. I
thought of this thread immediately. His method sounds like it would
be quite effective.

http://www.polyphoto.com/tutorials/PrintHeadCleaning/EpsonCleaning.html

Good Luck!

 

[Arthur Entlich]

The talk of alignment problems at the same time as the banding makes me
a bit skeptical the problem is underhead clogging. Also, the R1800 uses
Ultrachrome inks (hi-gloss versions) and these quite honestly have a
very low clog rate, due to those ink formulations. Since the printer is
under warranty, I would suggest going that route at this point.


Art

 

[Guillaume Dargaud]

The only other "obvious" things that I can think of are the possibility

that you have some counterfeit cartridges or ink is well past "use-by"
date. Counterfeit cartridges were being sold in Europe - they looked very
close to original, but caused some users big problems. I can give you a
url to some photos and instructions on how to identify the fakes if you
think it's worth it. If that was the problem - then it doesn't have to
mean that your warranty is void.

I'd be surprised if those were counterfeit. They are from a reputable vendor
and I can even see the manufacture dates in the driver.

I decided to run a complete series of test, like when I first received the
printer. I found out some interesting facts relevant to this series of
messages. For this I run the same very sharp image (100MPix) with various
settings and papers.
Here's what I found out, which surprises me because it's different from the
results I got 8 months ago.

- I tried the 'thick paper' hidden setting (I say hidden because there's
close to 10 windows to open before you can find it) and although my paper is
not thick, it's helped alleviate this banding problem (it's not completely
gone though). It's also eliminated the loud 'ciak' noise at each carriage
return. I have used some thick paper in the past, and this one isn't.

- as per some of your advice, I tried some Epson paper, glossy in that case.
Default settings. Perfect results. I mean perfect, the dithering which is
visible on the Moab paper is all but gone. Strange... [although I haven't
printed lots of pages, so the banding problem is not completely ruled out as
it appears every 2 meters of print on average]

- I printed with the same settings on Moab paper: perfect results as well.

- I started checking out my settings and found out that in the print driver
when I use ICM with an AdobeRGB input profile, I get lots of dithering
compared to the default sRGB. So there's a problem at this level. Is the
profile wrong ? Is the driver interpretting the profile improperly ?
I'd be curious to hear about others' experiences with different input
profiles for that specific printers. Note that I use it because all my
images use this profile and I want to select in the driver because most
applications have no color management. [I'm not using photoshop]

Thanks to all who provided helpful tips.

 

[frederick]

I'd be surprised if those were counterfeit. They are from a reputable vendor
and I can even see the manufacture dates in the driver.

They probably are okay. Symptoms reported from the counterfeits were
big colour shifts, blockages followed by terminal head clogs.

I decided to run a complete series of test, like when I first received the
printer. I found out some interesting facts relevant to this series of
messages. For this I run the same very sharp image (100MPix) with various
settings and papers.
Here's what I found out, which surprises me because it's different from the
results I got 8 months ago.

- I tried the 'thick paper' hidden setting (I say hidden because there's
close to 10 windows to open before you can find it) and although my paper is
not thick, it's helped alleviate this banding problem (it's not completely
gone though). It's also eliminated the loud 'ciak' noise at each carriage
return. I have used some thick paper in the past, and this one isn't.

Yes it is well hidden. OTOH I've never needed to use it even when
printing on some quite heavy cards.

- as per some of your advice, I tried some Epson paper, glossy in that case.
Default settings. Perfect results. I mean perfect, the dithering which is
visible on the Moab paper is all but gone. Strange... [although I haven't
printed lots of pages, so the banding problem is not completely ruled out as
it appears every 2 meters of print on average]

- I printed with the same settings on Moab paper: perfect results as well.

- I started checking out my settings and found out that in the print driver
when I use ICM with an AdobeRGB input profile, I get lots of dithering
compared to the default sRGB. So there's a problem at this level. Is the
profile wrong ? Is the driver interpretting the profile improperly ?
I'd be curious to hear about others' experiences with different input
profiles for that specific printers. Note that I use it because all my
images use this profile and I want to select in the driver because most
applications have no color management. [I'm not using photoshop]

I've never tried using ICM in the driver in the way you suggest, but
this sounds like it is at least part of your problem. There is no point
in using aRGB in your workflow unless you edit in an application that is
ICC colour aware and can use the wider colourspace. Non colour-aware
applications will "assume" sRGB.

Can you even properly use ICC profiles that way? It's not the way Epson
recommend - I looked at it now - and it seems a big can of worms.
What do you print from? I use PS and let PS manage colour (ICM selected
with "Off - no colour adjustment" checked in the driver), with correct
settings including profile selection in "print with preview..." dialog.
I assume that Moab have ICC profiles for that paper on the R1800? Do
they also have a recommended driver settings / paper selection? The
main third party paper I use is Ilford, who provide good (certainly good
enough for my purposes) profiles, plus recommended printer settings for
each paper. I can't advise on Moab, because I've never used it.

From the sound of what you are saying, it looks more like a colour
management/driver setting issue than a problem with the printer, perhaps
combined with an incorrect paper type selection.

Perhaps the application "QImage" may be worth looking at if you want to
use ICC profiles without using Photoshop. I believe that there is a
time-limited trial version available for download. I think that unless
you use an ICC colour-aware printing application in a colour-managed
workflow with third party paper, then it is nearly impossible to get
accurate colour.